Author Topic: Game  (Read 5538 times)

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Borys

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Game
« on: August 18, 2008, 11:49:23 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 06:03:13 AM by Borys »

WrikaWrek

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 11:49:52 AM »
The guy should stfu. What a loser.

cool breeze

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 11:56:46 AM »
So basically it had been pre-planned, like the story and all that shit, for 10+ years, then the game itself was rushed or something? ok.

Fragamemnon

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 11:59:35 AM »
when you buy someone's tech you get their tech, warts and all-this includes incomplete shit and the other stuff that Dyack was complaining about. licesning a game doesn't exonerate you from keeping good engine and tools programmers around-if anything, you need them more than ever to patch up and work around the decisions made in the codebase that just don't work out for your product.

what a loser. Do you think buying an engine means that you get everything handed to you on a silver platter, ready for your level, scripting, and art people to start snapping stuff in? just no  :lol
hex

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 12:01:13 PM »
Said it before and I'll say it again: Too Human is the only game I am not going to buy or even try out because of what its wacko creator has been saying.
ど助平

Kestastrophe

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 12:04:06 PM »
I was just watching footage from E3 06 and I really don't think that the game looks much better in present form. The fact that the game has shown little to no improvement over the years, and still manages to have bugs despite the long dev time (according to early reviews), it's not hard to figure out what went wrong.......

WE JUST GOT DYACKROLL'D
jon

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 12:08:20 PM »
what a loser. Do you think buying an engine means that you get everything handed to you on a silver platter, ready for your level, scripting, and art people to start snapping stuff in? just no  :lol
Read the complaint filed against Epic.  It is pretty detailed about what SK was promised from the UE3 engine and when it was promised.  It alleges what was not delivered on time and what was not delivered at all. 

SK has their own problems, but it's unfair to say they expected a magical be-all end-all solution.

Fragamemnon

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »
what a loser. Do you think buying an engine means that you get everything handed to you on a silver platter, ready for your level, scripting, and art people to start snapping stuff in? just no  :lol
Read the complaint filed against Epic.  It is pretty detailed about what SK was promised from the UE3 engine and when it was promised.  It alleges what was not delivered on time and what was not delivered at all. 

SK has their own problems, but it's unfair to say they expected a magical be-all end-all solution.

I'm not saying they don't have a case against epic-they may have a decent argument that holds up in court, and epic probably boned them over. I am saying that dyack needed to expect, or at least plan for that possible outcome and have a reasonable contingency plan in place to ensure that his product wouldn't devolve into development hell if epic did ship them a turd.
hex

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2008, 01:09:11 PM »
I was just watching footage from E3 06 and I really don't think that the game looks much better in present form. The fact that the game has shown little to no improvement over the years, and still manages to have bugs despite the long dev time (according to early reviews), it's not hard to figure out what went wrong.......

WE JUST GOT DYACKROLL'D
Honestly, I think the 2006 version of the game LOOKED nicer but ran at a very low framerate.  The current build still seems pretty unpolished.  The animation is still jerky and, although greatly improved, the framerate is unstable.

I do think that general expectations at the time made the game seem even worse than it was.  I mean, prior to its showing in 2006, people were expecting something more like Devil May Cry (with some RPG elements) rather than a Diablo clone.  Let's face it, when it comes to visual presentation (such as animation) there are very different expectations for those types of games.  When people expected something like DMC or Gaiden and experienced a poor framerate and choppy animation everyone cried foul.  If people were of the impression that it was going to be a Diablo style game from the beginning I think the initial reaction would have been more positive.

If you watch the footage from E3 2006 you'll see that the current build really hasn't improved a whole lot.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/10931.html
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 01:14:12 PM by dark1x »

border

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2008, 01:29:37 PM »
The E3 '06 video looks janky-as-hell, though I do like the color and design a lot more than current-day Too Human.  It looks a lot like Halo in that gametrailers footage.

Trent Dole

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2008, 01:33:21 PM »
Dyack has devoured the buffet lololol. Shut the fuck up already, you're no longer embarrassing yourself but the entire industry at this point. Christ.
Hi

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2008, 02:44:15 PM »
The E3 '06 video looks janky-as-hell, though I do like the color and design a lot more than current-day Too Human.  It looks a lot like Halo in that gametrailers footage.
Basically, I thought the 06 build LOOKED nicer (in stills) but was even jerkier than the game currently is.  The final game certainly isn't smooth.  The framerate is unstable (though much higher overall) and the animation is still very weak.

I just don't think the game has come far enough.  Denis really became upset over the E306 showing and claimed that it ruined the perception of the game.  That would only make sense if the final game were to look completely different, but it does not.  That early build actually does represent the game pretty fairly, I'd say.

WrikaWrek

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2008, 02:49:48 PM »
I would just like to understand how a 120 people studio, shows something weak in Summer 06, blames it on U3 and on MS for making them show the game early, get 2 years extra added to development, via delays and etc, and in summer 08 when the game releases, the game still feels too early.

I just don't understand. It's clear that they are a bunch of incompetent fools, and i doubt that A) MS will keep betting on this horse B) They have much of a future with other publishers.

duckman2000

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2008, 02:51:58 PM »
Who owns the Too Human IP?

border

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2008, 02:59:22 PM »
The E3 '06 footage looks like rough prototype footage you might see on a "Making Of" video documentary.  Hard to believe that's what they presented to the press at the biggest gaming event in the world.  The framerate is pretty bad, there's no HUD and the targeting looks busted.  Enemies are popped up into the air and they just fly offscreen without ever coming back down :lol 

The final game doesn't look light years better, but it certainly is an improvement.

I'm not saying they don't have a case against epic-they may have a decent argument that holds up in court, and epic probably boned them over. I am saying that dyack needed to expect, or at least plan for that possible outcome and have a reasonable contingency plan in place to ensure that his product wouldn't devolve into development hell if epic did ship them a turd.

What sort of contingency plan should they have had in place?  Should they have expected the publisher to pay them to concurrently develop a "back-up" engine, after they'd just coughed up six figures to license Epic's engine?  I maybe don't know enough about development to say what should have been done.

MrAngryFace

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2008, 03:21:18 PM »
Game sucks, Dyack sucks, blah.
o_0

cool breeze

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2008, 05:45:26 PM »
UE3.0 is a great engine - Mass Effect, Gears of War, Dragon Age, Stranglehold, UT3, that japanese Square game all look & run great.

Dyack can't code for shit.

MIRROR'S EDGE

Wolf Gang

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2008, 10:41:25 AM »
I agree with Denis Dyack, and I also think that Epic definitely mislead the entire industry and its developers looking to develop multi-platform games with the Unreal Engine 3.0 game development engine.

At least (and I do mean "at least" with the strongest standards of definition of the phrase "at least") half of all multi-platform games of 2007 looked like shit on PS3 solely because they were built on the back of Unreal Engine 3.0, an engine that not only catered to, but obviously, grotesquely, and blatantly leaned heavily in favor of Xbox 360 development. It wasn't a game development engine at all, it was more like an Xbox 360 development engine.

The only engine you need as an example to prove my point is id's Tech 5 engine. That is an engine that is obviously worth its licensing costs. That is an engine that is obviously developed by real game developers, who don't pretend to cover all platforms they claim to but really don't.

Dyack's case will hold up in court, and I hope SK has learned that they should have partnered with Sony instead. Maybe MS will drop them and Sony will pick them up out of honor and respect for bringing this case to court.

demi

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2008, 10:43:16 AM »
I don't like UE3 either. Capcom's Framework engine is loads better - Lost Planet, Dead Rising, DMC4, RE5
fat

Wolf Gang

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2008, 10:55:11 AM »
I really like the in-house engine that Kojima Productions developed for the production of Metal Gear Solid 4, because that game is just beautiful.

I really hope that Hideo Kojima understands and appreciates the rarity that is his engine, an engine that's capable of shining shit up exclusively for the Cell.

If Kojima can understand and appreciate that, he definitely won't lower himself down to the standards and level of working with two-bit developers like Suda51, whose ilk can't even make a good looking Wii game by PSP standards.

WrikaWrek

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 10:56:39 AM »
I really like the in-house engine that Kojima Productions developed for the production of Metal Gear Solid 4, because that game is just beautiful.

I really hope that Hideo Kojima understands and appreciates the rarity that is his engine, an engine that's capable of shining shit up exclusively for the Cell.

If Kojima can understand and appreciate that, he definitely won't lower himself down to the standards and level of working with two-bit developers like Suda51, whose ilk can't even make a good looking Wii game by PSP standards.

Wouldn't be much of a departure to step down to Wii res.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2008, 12:43:20 PM »
Borys is right about UE3.  Don't blame the engine because your budget hardware can't run it well.

On the PC, UE3 games have no problems running on both Ati and Nvidia cards from the last 3 yrs.  UE3 runs like ass on the PS3 because it has a low end RSX and complicated CPU that delivers mundane performance. 

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2008, 01:24:14 PM »
Borys is right about UE3.  Don't blame the engine because your budget hardware can't run it well.

On the PC, UE3 games have no problems running on both Ati and Nvidia cards from the last 3 yrs.  UE3 runs like ass on the PS3 because it has a low end RSX and complicated CPU that delivers mundane performance. 

3 years is a bit of a stretch. Newest $200 cards have no problems running UE3 games in 1920x1080p with AA enabled. Now that's some power.
x1900 can run Bioshock just fine at 720p.  It's about 3yrs old.

Wolf Gang

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2008, 02:02:08 PM »
Epic shouldn't have been marketing UE3 as an engine that was going to give equal performance across Xbox 360 and PS3. It obviously didn't.

Epic could've saved a lot of companies time by letting them know that their engine was only going to be good for PCs and Xbox 360s.

I should take Epic to court just for cockblocking Sony from massive success.

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 02:04:16 PM »
Borys is right about UE3.  Don't blame the engine because your budget hardware can't run it well.

On the PC, UE3 games have no problems running on both Ati and Nvidia cards from the last 3 yrs.  UE3 runs like ass on the PS3 because it has a low end RSX and complicated CPU that delivers mundane performance. 

3 years is a bit of a stretch. Newest $200 cards have no problems running UE3 games in 1920x1080p with AA enabled. Now that's some power.
Actually, UE3 games don't necessarily run as well with AA enabled.  UE3 games only support AA when a DX10 path is available.  Bioshock and Gears both have this for certain (probably UT3 as well), but a lot of games do not.  Stranglehold, for instance, will NOT support AA of any kind no matter what you may try.  It just doesn't work.  This holds true for quite a few UE3 games as well (I believe Mass Effect does not support AA).

If you actually DO use the DX10 path with AA, performance takes a hit.  At 1920x1080, benchmarks will show that performance does take a hit when AA is enabled even on a very high-end machine.  It's not as cut and dry as you make it seem.  It should also be noted that some UE3 games run significantly worse than others.  All of this involves fairly good hardware, rather than older, cheaper cards.  I'm running a mid-range rig, though, and I know that all of the UE3 games I've tested have no problems running at 60 fps in 1080p but performance dips in DX10 mode with AA enabled.  From what I've read, this is the case for most cards up until you get into really high-end SLI territory.

As you say, 3 years is also a stretch.  Cheaper, older cards will run UE3 games, but they will not do it well.  You can achieve playable framerates, but it won't be 60 fps and AA is right out (especially considering that the DX10 rendering path is required for it).

Also, it should be noted that UE3 does not "run like ass" on PS3 hardware.  The hardware IS low-end next to modern PC hardware (thanks to the shitty ass RSX), but the version of UE3 Epic created for UT3 is very nicely optimized.  UT3 was capable of running at 60 fps on PS3, you know, and was shown doing so many times.  It was only locked down at 30 fps in order to allow for the most complex games with the highest number of enemies to run at a smooth framerate.  Games based on this build of UE3 will all run well on PS3.  It's the stuff based on code ported from 360 by 3rd parties that suck.  Epic knew what they were doing, but most others did not.  Many of the games released around that time framerate were based on older code.

Regarding the AA issue again, I'm disappointed by the number of PC titles that no longer support it properly.  Crysis does not, UE3 games tend not to, even Bionic Commando Rearmed doesn't.  It's becoming far too common and it's a damn shame considering that was always a nice advantage the PC had.

Quote
Epic shouldn't have been marketing UE3 as an engine that was going to give equal performance across Xbox 360 and PS3. It obviously didn't.
It DOES, though.  The issue is, PS3 was released a year later and UE3 was a year behind on PS3.  XBOX360 was launched in 2005 and UE3 was fully optimized for it through Gears of War in 2006.  PS3 was a 2006 machine while Epic optimized UE3 for PS3 through UT3.  Due to the fact that games were already well underway before UT3 was complete, many companies attempted their own shitty ports of UE3 for PS3.  The results speak for themselves.  Games that are based upon Epic's UT3 work will benefit GREATLY, however.  I thought this was common sense.

The PS3 has issues, we all know that, but it is certainly capable of handling UE3 smoothly.  Your throwing logic out the window with your blanket statement.

Many of the upcoming UE3 games are running great on PS3.  Mirror's Edge, for instance, was demonstrated live on PS3 at E3 and it ran great!  Bioshock also looks just fine.  Of course, Epic's own UT3 was no better on 360 despite more development time.  There haven't even been that many UE3 games on PS3.  Of the ones released, only Turok and Area 51 were actually AWFUL ports.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 02:12:02 PM by dark1x »

Wolf Gang

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2008, 02:16:42 PM »
@dark1x:

Sorry for my blanket statement.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 02:16:54 PM »
Dark1x, no offense, but maybe you should stick to talking about sub-720p and 30fps gaming on your consoles.  There are so many mistakes up there, I dunno where to begin.  

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2008, 02:21:04 PM »
@dark1x:

Sorry for my blanket statement.

Thanks for setting me straight.
Well, look, here's some actual facts for you.  Earlier you said...

Quote
At least (and I do mean "at least" with the strongest standards of definition of the phrase "at least") half of all multi-platform games of 2007 looked like shit on PS3 solely because they were built on the back of Unreal Engine 3.0
How about a list?  Here is a list of UE3 games released for both XBOX360 and PS3 (plus some differences).  First of all, take note at how SMALL the list really is.  There weren't that many UE3 games released last year for both machines.  Only a couple of titles were canned due to PS3 development difficulty.  Most of these games aren't very good either and are based on older UE3 code.  When you couple poor developer with such a situation, you end up with crap.  It's common sense.

Army of Two
BlackSite: Area 51
Fatal Inertia
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Robert Ludlum's The Bourne Conspiracy
Stranglehold
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty
Turok
Unreal Tournament 3

Blacksite, Airborne, and Turok are the only three games that are CONSIDERABLY worse on PS3.  Were those great games to begin with?

Bourne (demo) was slightly better on 360 only due to the enabling of v-sync (they were exactly the same otherwise).  Army of Two was roughly the same in that the framerate was equally smooth and all assets were the same (but the PS3 version ran at a slightly lower resolution).  Fatal Inertia had more time in development on PS3, but runs much smoother.  UT3 had more time on 360 and looks/runs the same as the PS3 version.  Stranglehold is equal on both platforms.

So, really, your statement was way off base and based entirely on misconceptions.

Quote
Dark1x, no offense, but maybe you should stick to talking about sub-720p and 30fps gaming on your consoles.  There are so many mistakes up there, I dunno where to begin. 
No, I'd prefer if you DO correct them.  That was a lot of rambling, so I'm sure there were mistakes in there somewhere.  The whole point of posting all that is to get replies, you know.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 02:23:46 PM by dark1x »

MCD

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2008, 02:24:58 PM »
army of two 360 had 2xx aa, i was surprised by this, i thought UE3 can't do aa on consoles.

also, both versions were 720p :p

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2008, 02:29:59 PM »
army of two 360 had 2xx aa, i was surprised by this, i thought UE3 can't do aa on consoles.

also, both versions were 720p :p
Actually, you're incorrect on the resolution.  The PS3 version did output at 720p, but they introduced a small black border around the image.  They are rendering in a smaller window space.  If your TV has some overscan issues, you'd probably never notice it, but it's there.  They did not take the upscaling route.  I had read that AA was used in Army of Two on 360, but if you analyze direct feed shots, it does not appear to be the case at all.  It may be selective AA of some sort, however.  It's odd, it COULD possibly be applied along some edges, yet others seem lacking.  Look at the back of the one characters neck, for instance.  The stair stepping is quite obvious.  The wall next to him, while jaggy, could potentially be using some sort of AA.

Take a look...

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/2/8/3/6/2/Army6.jpg.jpg

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2008, 02:31:09 PM »
No, I'd prefer if you DO correct them.  That was a lot of rambling, so I'm sure there were mistakes in there somewhere.  The whole point of posting all that is to get replies, you know.

OK.  You were wrong about DX10 being a requirement for UE3 AA.

Bioshock only has AA in DX9 unless you try some DX10 hacks with Nhancer.  Even then, it doesn't work as well as AA in DX9.

UT3 has no DX10 support at all and does AA in DX9.

Mass Effect does have AA support in Vista and XP.

You brought up performance hits of enabling AA at 1920x1200 but so what?  Anyone that really wants to game at that resolution w/good IQ and framerate is gonna get good hardware.  Even with 8xAA, most games run at 1920x1200 with at least 60fps on my rig.  

Also, 99% of PC games support anti-aliasing so I don't know what your last rant is about.  At worst, the AA situation on PC is still 10x better than it is on the PS3.  

MCD

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2008, 02:35:09 PM »
@darkx

i'm going with the b3d resolution list not from my own experience, you should report your findings there :p

Wolf Gang

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2008, 02:35:42 PM »
dark1x, you just helped me remember why I picked the PS3 as my lead console.

I knew it was the platform that would weed out the wannabe developers from the real developers.

This industry is saturated with mediocrity, and I guess I blamed some of that on Epic, but after your thorough explanation, I also respect Epic a little bit now.

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2008, 02:42:51 PM »
No, I'd prefer if you DO correct them.  That was a lot of rambling, so I'm sure there were mistakes in there somewhere.  The whole point of posting all that is to get replies, you know.

OK.  You were wrong about DX10 being a requirement for UE3 AA.

Bioshock only has AA in DX9 unless you try some DX10 hacks with Nhancer.  Even then, it doesn't work as well as AA in DX9.

UT3 has no DX10 support at all and does AA in DX9.

Mass Effect does have AA support in Vista and XP.

You brought up performance hits of enabling AA at 1920x1200 but so what?  Anyone that really wants to game at that resolution w/good IQ and framerate is gonna get good hardware.  Even with 8xAA, most games run at 1920x1200 with at least 60fps on my rig.  

Also, 99% of PC games support anti-aliasing so I don't know what your last rant is about.  At worst, the AA situation on PC is still 10x better than it is on the PS3.  
OK, fair enough.  I was mistaken on Bioshock, but it has been a while.  Most of those other statements were vague guesses.  I was uncertain about Mass Effect, for instance, and took a guess on UT3.  That's hardly the main point of the post, though.  The Bioshock claim was the only claim that I made which is completely false (I knew it had a DX10 mode like Gears and associated the two, but in reality, the DX10 mode in Bioshock is for the improvements to the water shaders).  The others were simply mistaken guesses.  I just know that AA and UE3 don't seem to play nice together in all situations.

I'm not comparing the AA situation on PS3 to the PC.  Fuck the PS3, man.  That's another discussion for my amusement.  I'm not BUYING these games on PS3 afterall.  I was simply musing over the fact that a lot of recent games I've been playing don't properly support AA.  In particular, Crysis and Bionic Commando.

I suppose the problems with PC discussion comes down to how people view performance.  If I were to benchmark my system running these games, I'd be hitting very high framerates as well.  All of the UE3 games have NO TROUBLE running at 60 fps in 1080p.  In a couple of instances, though, you'll find spots where minor slowdown occurs.  Do you even play with v-sync enabled?  If I disable that, the framerates skyrocket.

Quote
I knew it was the platform that would weed out the wannabe developers from the real developers.
I said no such thing.  The PS3 has just as much shovelware as 360 (though the Wii eclipses everything, which is expected of the market leader).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 02:45:58 PM by dark1x »

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2008, 02:45:42 PM »
I always play with Vsync On in SP games.  For MP games, I might turn it off for a quicker response. 

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2008, 02:47:27 PM »
I always play with Vsync On in SP games.  For MP games, I might turn it off for a quicker response. 
What do you have in your rig again?

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2008, 02:51:54 PM »
Watercooled 3.6ghz Q6600 (overclocking limit went up for some reason after a few months), 4gbs Corsair PC8500 DDR2 running at 800mhz 4-3-3-10, 150gb WD raptor as main gaming drive, Creative X-FI Platinum, and 2 factory overclocked EVGA 280GTXes

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2008, 02:58:19 PM »
Watercooled 3.6ghz Q6600 (overclocking limit went up for some reason after a few months), 4gbs Corsair PC8500 DDR2 running at 800mhz 4-3-3-10, 150gb WD raptor as main gaming drive, Creative X-FI Platinum, and 2 factory overclocked EVGA 280GTXes
Very nice!  Dual 280GTXes, huh?  Any good benchmarks available for the 280GTX?

I should also note that the reason I have interest in the performance of PS3 is simply that it IS a closed platform that is very unique.  People remained interested in pushing the C64 over a decade after it was surpassed.  Why is that?  It's obvious that high-end PC hardware is going to crush the shit out of a closed box console.  It would be crazy if that WERE NOT the case, right?  My view on console and PC performance is VERY different.  Don't take the PS3 defense to mean that I don't spent a lot of time gaming on the PC.  In all honesty, my PC performance complaints are ultra nitpicky.  If PS3 was held to that standard, it wouldn't even leave a mark. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 03:05:20 PM by dark1x »

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2008, 03:05:50 PM »
Watercooled 3.6ghz Q6600 (overclocking limit went up for some reason after a few months), 4gbs Corsair PC8500 DDR2 running at 800mhz 4-3-3-10, 150gb WD raptor as main gaming drive, Creative X-FI Platinum, and 2 factory overclocked EVGA 280GTXes
Very nice!  Dual 280GTXes, huh?  Any good benchmarks available for the 280GTX?

You could search for the thread that I made when I first got them.  I think my performance is even higher now with better SLI optimizations from newer drivers. 

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2008, 03:13:42 PM »
I actually found a few benchmarks on various sites.  It looks impressive, but I suppose I really wouldn't have much use for them.  I already get 60 fps in all of the game I play (except Crysis) due to the fact that I game on a Pioneer Kuro limited to 1360x768 native.  With v-sync enabled at that resolution, 60 fps is no problem in any case.  The display accepts 1080p and downscales it, however, so I CAN test it when I'd like to.  It seems that the latest card really only benefits those who demand really high resolutions (which typically means using an LCD...which is just blah).

Of course, I did find a place to obtain one of those beastly Sony GW900 CRT monitors that support resolutions beyond 1080p.  Now THAT'S a kickass PC display.  If I ever picked one up, I'd look into one of the new video cards.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2008, 03:27:45 PM »
I just remember why any benefit of CRT monitors is meaningless to me.  My eyes almost go blind whenever I use one for more than 2 hrs/day. 

dark1x

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2008, 03:31:25 PM »
I just remember why any benefit of CRT monitors is meaningless to me.  My eyes almost go blind whenever I use one for more than 2 hrs/day. 
Understandable.  CRTs are harder on the eyes than an LCD.  I can't deny that.  It doesn't bother me, but I know plenty of folks who can't stand them.

For me, the ghosting and awful black levels of LCDs are just too much to handle.  Right now I'm using a 19" CRT in my backroom while running 75ft cables (through the wall) to my Plasma in the living room (that way, nobody can even tell that my PC is hooked up to the TV which is great when company comes by).  I must admit that LCDs are very attractive when display static, bright imagery, but I know the second the lights go off and a game goes dark, I would hate it once again.  I thought OLED would become a good alternative in the future as I know they can solve the lifetime issues, but it seems that it has the same sample and hold related response time issues so ghosting will remain.  I mourn the death of SED.  What an incredible technology that was...

Smooth Groove

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2008, 04:03:08 PM »
Borys, I actually was crazy enough to purchase a 3rd 280GTX SLI.  I returned it the next day though when I realized that I would have to spend another $150 to 200 for a PCI-Xpress Soundcard since the 3rd 280 would block the PCI port.  Also, electricity is crazy expensive in Southern California.  I think I'd rather have air con in LA than some extra PC performance. 

dark1x

  • Member
Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2008, 04:05:29 PM »
Quote
Crysis does. Bionic Commando Rearmed is one title, an exception not a rule.
Crysis KIND OF supports AA, but its not supported well.  When AA is enabled, edge AA (more important) is disabled and foliage becomes a mess.  Furthermore, standard AA results in a massive performance hit (far greater than any other game).  It's basically useless in Crysis.  Thankfully, the game doesn't really need it.  I think cityscape environments would probably suffer greatly as a result, however.  The carrier portions, while beautiful, would have benefitted from things like AA and AF.

AF doesn't really work well with Crysis either, by the way.  It does not work at all for all POM surfaces, though it will display on other textures.  The result is kind of a mishmash and I believe it even introduces some artifacts in certain places.  Again, the design of the visuals prevents thie from becoming an issue in most places.

Quote
DAMN IT, man, I PM'd you a very interesting benchmark: SKulltrail + triple SLI 280 GTX vs X-fire ATIs. Amazing numbers in there - 150 fps average in Oblivion @ 2560x1600 res with AA enabled.
Yeah, I saw that message after the fact.  Thanks!  Those numbers are insane!

Quote
Yup, both consoles are pretty much tied in power. Does UT3 run any better on 360 than on PS3? Anyone bought UT3 360?
It's the same on both, as far as I can tell.  Of course, despite the 30 fps, the PS3 version is more playable due to mouse/keyboard support.  Fortunately it uses motion blur so it actually looks decent at 30 fps, but still, the PC version is the way to go (though the game lacks support at this point).

Quote
Borys, I actually was crazy enough to purchase a 3rd 280GTX SLI.
Wow, that is crazy.  :P

I have to know, though, what exactly are you playing that makes all of that worthwhile?  Lesser machines are still able to deliver 60 fps across all non-Crysis titles.  Of course, I can't deny the excitement of upgrading, so I guess I can understand.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 04:08:20 PM by dark1x »

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2008, 04:07:58 PM »
According to a few reviews, 360 runs  better than the PS3 version.  Maybe that's why only the 360 ver. has split-screen support? 

dark1x

  • Member
Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2008, 04:09:49 PM »
According to a few reviews, 360 runs  better than the PS3 version.  Maybe that's why only the 360 ver. has split-screen support? 
I don't see how considering the PS3 version is pretty much a locked 30 fps with blur.  The 360 version is also 30 fps.  Both versions can occasionally hit slowdown, but it's very rare.  There is no visual difference either.  Again, this comparison ignores the PC version and is only for comparison sake.

Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2008, 04:11:50 PM »
Watercooled 3.6ghz Q6600 (overclocking limit went up for some reason after a few months), 4gbs Corsair PC8500 DDR2 running at 800mhz 4-3-3-10, 150gb WD raptor as main gaming drive, Creative X-FI Platinum, and 2 factory overclocked EVGA 280GTXes
oh my jesus
Crm

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
  • Senior Member
Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2008, 04:20:39 PM »
According to a few reviews, 360 runs  better than the PS3 version.  Maybe that's why only the 360 ver. has split-screen support? 
I don't see how considering the PS3 version is pretty much a locked 30 fps with blur.  The 360 version is also 30 fps.  Both versions can occasionally hit slowdown, but it's very rare.  There is no visual difference either.  Again, this comparison ignores the PC version and is only for comparison sake.

I don't know either since I only own the PC version, which is completely useless, btw. 

I just remember a couple reviews mentioned that the 360 ver. is smoother and Lyte Edge, who owns both versions, said the same thing. 

Mrbob

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Re: Denis The Dyack: "Epic has defrauded us & the industry"
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2008, 07:59:08 PM »
Double D is a dumb ass douche.

I'll still buy Too Human when it is cheap.