Gubment bails out AIG - $85 billionsssssss$$$$$$$

[siamesedreamer]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26747020

$85 billion loan in exchange for 80% control...

[Fresh Prince]

I thought the market will sort this out? 

[Beardo]

The republicans won't have to worry about democrats making us socialists after all, as they've got that covered.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Sure looks that way.  :'(

I don't know much about insurance companies, so I'm wondering why this couldn't have been allowed to fail? Its basically just a service that (just a guess) 80-90% of their customers have no use for at any given time. If it fails, then those people can just move on to another plan. Right?

[Fresh Prince]

For a second I thought Gubment was some rich Swiss\German bank 

People at GAF say it's to sure up the market, ie allay anymore fears.

[Bocsius]

I have no expertise whatsoever in this area, so ignore what I'm about to say.

This is probably a deal that basically buys time for AIG to sell off some assets and become a shell of its former self. Uncle Sam isn't in this for the long haul, just holding AIG afloat for a few months while part or all of the company is dismantled.

[huckleberry]

Sure looks that way.  :'(

I don't know much about insurance companies, so I'm wondering why this couldn't have been allowed to fail? Its basically just a service that (just a guess) 80-90% of their customers have no use for at any given time. If it fails, then those people can just move on to another plan. Right?

I don't links to the exact figures...but AIG has something like 1 trillion dollars in assets and apparently every major bank in the country has some kind of dealings with them.  Good enough reason as any I guess.

[Van Cruncheon]

The republicans won't have to worry about democrats making us socialists after all, as they've got that covered.

this.

[Fresh Prince]

I have no expertise whatsoever in this area, so ignore what I'm about to say.

This is probably a deal that basically buys time for AIG to sell off some assets and become a shell of its former self. Uncle Sam isn't in this for the long haul, just holding AIG afloat for a few months while part or all of the company is dismantled.

Bush must feel like the most luckiest man in the world, that he can pass off this mess to someone else. Fucking Greenspan.

[siamesedreamer]

Ahhhh...I see.

Actually saw a commercial for them this morning on CNBC pimping their term life plans. Didn't know they more more sophisticated than just health/life.

[Rman]

Remember it's only socialism when gov't money is going to poor people.

[Rman]

Bush must feel like the most luckiest man in the world, that he can pass off this mess to someone else. Fucking Greenspan.

seriously , where IS that clown right now?

retired.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, a good portion of this shit can be laid at the feet of greenspan -- AND phil and wendy gramm, aka the mccain campaign's financial advisers

[Rman]

yeah, a good portion of this shit can be laid at the feet of greenspan -- AND phil and wendy gramm, aka the mccain campaign's financial advisers

greenspan was the genius who advocated for variable rate mortgages, which are the loans that make up the majority of the foreclosures.

[Beardo]

The republicans won't have to worry about democrats making us socialists after all, as they've got that covered.

this.

So your throwing a celebration party this weekend?

[Van Cruncheon]

how this shit started (thanks, phil gramm -- and bill clinton. bipartisan bullshit at work!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

required reading: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis

beardo: you should be throwing one, too. if aig had gone under, you'd probably be some kinda fucked. socialism

[huckleberry]

The republicans won't have to worry about democrats making us socialists after all, as they've got that covered.

this.

So your throwing a celebration party this weekend?

I hope so.  He can throw a big circle jerk - with you as the pivot man.

 

[Beardo]

Socialism coming out part at prole's this weekend. Everyone bring your own six pack but your only allowed to drink half of it. The other half will be given to the hobos on the street.

[Van Cruncheon]

i swear to god, i am starting to agree with my wife when she says that anyone who registers with the republican party should be forfeit from holding any government office. seriously, using republican pseudo-logic: if you hate big government so much, why don't you stop running for office?

beardo: i've trended socialist for longer than you've been alive. and i'll gladly party with any cool hobos, since unlike republican leeches, they aren't hung up on sex! mmm, hot hobo cock

[Van Cruncheon]

the homeless are less of a drain on society than republicans

i'd rather donate half a six-pack than have my taxes buy parachutes for idiot ceos

[Human Snorenado]

Fundamentally strong!  We need LESS regulation!

[Van Cruncheon]

we only reluctantly and irritably accept the fruits of that regulation in saving our fucking asses, grr dirty socialism forced this shame on us, NOW OFF TO RAPE THE INDUSTRIAL MARKETS WITH SHORT-TERM UNDERWRITING SCHEMES!

[Van Cruncheon]

...with socialist taxation!

<head explodes>

[Mr. Gundam]

Socialism coming out part at prole's this weekend. Everyone bring your own six pack but your only allowed to drink half of it. The other half will be given to the hobos on the street.

That sounds like my kinda party.

The homeless>Republicans

The homeless people that live near me are really nice people, and they don't get involved in my personal shit, unlike the Republicans.

[Beardo]

Im not sure I understand you guys, you like socialism but at the same time dont like it. 

[Fresh Prince]

In what way?

[Eel O'Brian]

they like socialism until it means they can't start OMG WHAT DID YOU BUY threads anymore

[Human Snorenado]

Im not sure I understand you guys, you like socialism but at the same time dont like it. 

I could make a joke here about republicans not being smart enough to get sarcasm even when it's being laid on thick, but I'm too nice to do that!

Oh wait.  No I'm not.

[max_cool]

Ummmm... the federal reserve is not part of the "Gubment"

[max_cool]

I've always seen it more or less as a group that has some ties to government but is mostly independent, the ties being a board of governors appointed by the pres and then cooperation between the fed reserve banks and the treasury dept, however, the president, let alone Congress has little to no say over the operation of the Fed.

[max_cool]

Correct, except that doesn't make it not part of the government.

It doesn't really make it part of the government either, there is no oversight. "Quasi-Gubment" maybe?

[Human Snorenado]

Charlie Rose has former AIG CEO Hank Greenberg on RIGHT NOW.

[Mandark]

From the Washington Post last Friday: "Financial Rescues Show That Faith in Free Market Is Shaken"

Well, yeah.

Want to know whether people really believe in a nigh infallible market which is always and everywhere more efficient than socialized government systems, or whether they just want to reward themselves and bludgeon the undeserving, slothful, different-looking other?  Listen to what they're saying when the shit hits the fan and their own invested wealth, much less the nation's economy, is on the line.

The loudest and most enthusiastic evangelists of the free market were able to sing its praises because appropriate regulation, public investments in infrastructure and education, and the implicit backstopping of the market by the government had created a stable, peaceful and broadly prosperous environment where business could flourish.

"Having been enabled by Democratic administrations to live like Republicans, the new suburbanites ended up voting like Republicans." - Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.

[Human Snorenado]

Man, I miss FoC.  I wonder what sort of moonbat explanations he could come up with on how the financial meltdown happening right now WASN'T the fault of less regulation.

[Van Cruncheon]

for future anti-libertarian hilarity: just take their gold standard advocacy and replace "gold" with "real estate". let the lulz ensue.

[max_cool]

That works

Evilbore, the forum that compromises (ignore all other posts).

[Kestastrophe]

It's really surprising to me that alot of these CEOs have no consideration for their legacy at the helm of these legacy companies. They were incredibly shortsighted in their risk assumptions and now belong to the elite club of "CEOs that let 150+ year old companies fail". It is kind of indicative of the short-term orientation of the stock market as a whole though. I think its about time to get rid of earnings guidance altogether

[Fresh Prince]

I wouldn't care, they made their money and secured it now they can live it. I doubt the families care either otherwise they'd try an buy them out earlier.

[Human Snorenado]

Awesome.  They are going to further deregulate the banking industry in response to this.

Awesome.

HA WHA WHO?

Linkage plz.

[Human Snorenado]

Jesus fuck, Obama is going to have a shitload of work to do.

[Human Snorenado]

They should just get it over with and let them take all their money down to the track.

"I'm putting all your life savings on Papa's Mustache in the fifth!  Come on Papa's Mustache!  Come on!"

[jiji]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26763431

Morgan Stanley is in talks to possibly be acquired by Chinese bank Citic, sources in the U.S. and China have told CNBC.

No deal is certain at this time, however, and sources said that none was likely to be finalized Wednesday.

Word of the talks follows an earlier report in the New York Times that Morgan Stanley—one of the two last independent, U.S.-based investment banks—is considering a merger with Wachovia or another bank.

The Federal Reserve has been active in encouraging the Chinese to invest in U.S. financial institutions and has even made it clear that it would look favorably upon a Chinese acquisition of a U.S.-based financial institution, sources said.

(sorry in advance)

[The Fake Shemp]

Sweet, we will all speak Chinese soon!

[Tauntaun]

Sweet, we will all speak Chinese soon!

Then we can get more eps of Firefly cause it'll be a reality!

[Kestastrophe]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/business/18regulate.html?hp

Well, that would have made Lehman a much more attractive purchase if they changed the treatment of goodwill.

[Van Cruncheon]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/159346

This mess is mostly a titanic failure of regulation. And the largest share of blame goes back to one man: Alan Greenspan. People mainly fault the former Fed chief, who once enjoyed a near-saintly reputation because of his reputed "feel" for market conditions, for ushering in an era of easy credit that accelerated the mortgage mania. But the much bigger problem was Greenspan's Ayn Randian passion for regulatory minimalism. Under the Home Ownership and Equity Protection Act enacted by Congress in 1994, the Fed was given the authority to oversee mortgage loans. But Greenspan kept putting off writing any rules. As late as April 2005, when things were seriously beginning to go wrong, he was saying that subprime lending would work out for the common good—without government interference. "Lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants," he declared at the time. So much for his feel. New regs didn't get put into place until this past July—long after the crash had come, under Greenspan's successor, Ben Bernanke. The new Fed chief's "Regulation Z" finally created some common-sense rules, such as forbidding loans without sufficient documentation to show if a person has the ability to repay.

Greenspan has tried to defend himself repeatedly, though as bank after bank has failed he's retreated to the shadows. But in a 2007 interview with CBS he admitted: "While I was aware a lot of these practices were going on, I had no notion of how significant they had become until very late." This, from a man who once told me, in an interview, that he most enjoyed scanning economic reports for hours in his bathtub. Now, with Tuesday's $85 billion bailout of AIG adding to the hundreds of billions the government has already put up to rescue Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, this apostle of free-market absolutism has realized his worst nightmare. He has given us the largest government intervention into the markets since FDR. Heckuva job, Greenie.

i for one blame foc

[Kestastrophe]

I wonder how much money abrader lost this week

[Human Snorenado]

Haha, omfg.  On Larry King earlier tonight Ben Stein just basically said that lack of regulation and enforcement of regulation on Wall Street are responsible for this mess.  BEN FUCKING STEIN.  Robert Reich was supposed to be the counterpoint but he seemed baffled that Stein basically cribbed his talking points and just agreed.  Stein went on to say that McCain and Palin should be locked in a room with Warren Buffet until they learned about how the economy actually worked.  Reich asked Stein if he wanted to switch sides and join up with Team Obama and Stein said that if it wasn't for the abortion thing, he would.

Holy shitballs.  I'll post a video when I track it down.

[The Fake Shemp]

Asian markets are falling!  WORLD COLLAPSE IMMINENT.

[Human Snorenado]

Oh man.  Oh shit.  I just realized something.

Remember how Bush wanted to let people invest their social security money in the stock market?  Yeah.  That would have been awesome.  Doesn't McCain have the same dumb idea?

[Van Cruncheon]

at least we'll have a good decade free of the word "privatization"

[Human Snorenado]

at least we'll have a good decade free of the word "privatization"

OWNERSHIP SOCIETY!

Actually, by the time the gubmint is done taking shit over, there will be NOWHERE TO GO other than privatizing at least some shit.

[Fresh Prince]

The US dollar is really going to be worthless if another bank fails. Wtf at investing savings into a weakened market.

[Mandark]

Haha, omfg.  On Larry King earlier tonight Ben Stein just basically said that lack of regulation and enforcement of regulation on Wall Street are responsible for this mess.  BEN FUCKING STEIN.  Robert Reich was supposed to be the counterpoint but he seemed baffled that Stein basically cribbed his talking points and just agreed.  Stein went on to say that McCain and Palin should be locked in a room with Warren Buffet until they learned about how the economy actually worked.  Reich asked Stein if he wanted to switch sides and join up with Team Obama and Stein said that if it wasn't for the abortion thing, he would.

Holy shitballs.  I'll post a video when I track it down.

That's awesome.  I'd totally watch a sitcom about a droning Jew and feisty midget starring those two.  Larry King would be like the Mr. Furley character.

Krugman was on Olbermann the other day and said "Ben Bernanke and (I think) Hank Paulson understand we could have another Great Depression if we work at it hard enough. I think Phil Gramm might be just the guy to do it."  Sick burn.

[pollo]

Lots of knowledgeable people on GAF actually posted some good articles. I forget which thread it was, but LJ11 posted a link to how the Feds have been handling the liquidity problem by coming up with 3 or 4 different ways to loan Banks and Primaries cash, at the expense of Treasury Notes.

The article goes on to state that the Feds were basically allowing junk securities as collateral. W...T...F.

[Eric P]

i can't believe the republicans aren't essentially being just laughed out of office at this point.

they had all of the branches of government, a complacent press, the world ready to be on our side after 9/11 and they had this for nearly a DECADE; a perfect storm to show that republican ideals work and work well in as close to theoretical "laboratory" conditions as possible and then this is the result.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

i can't believe the republicans aren't essentially being just laughed out of office at this point.

they had all of the branches of government, a complacent press, the world ready to be on our side after 9/11 and they had this for nearly a DECADE; a perfect storm to show that republican ideals work and work well in as close to theoretical "laboratory" conditions as possible and then this is the result.

I know, to hear them complain about anything is pathetic.  Liberal media my ass.
To be hearing those Fox News dolts play the victim card again and again since about, ever, is just boils my blood.

And the AIG deal isn't apparently acutual cash, its an IOU that they can use to stay solvent while searching for a better sugar daddy, as near as I can tell.

[Kestastrophe]

Remember how Bush wanted to let people invest their social security money in the stock market?  Yeah.  That would have been awesome.  Doesn't McCain have the same dumb idea?

What do you think 401k's are? Mutual funds mostly, which have never consistently outperformed the market

[ferrarimanf355]

... but where will they have the $ to bailout GM? I want my Volt...  :'(