Author Topic: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! Dow plunges -777!  (Read 41354 times)

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Mandark

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Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! Dow plunges -777!
« on: September 28, 2008, 05:15:18 AM »
Everyone seems to have come to an agreement in principle, which involves:

* $700 billion to buy mortgage-backed securities, which is the heart of the original Paulson plan.

* A bunch of provisions the Democrats pushed for: a stake in the upside of the bailout, restrictions on golden parachutes for executives, a mandate for the government to try to re-negotiate the mortgages it buys, etc.

* For the House GOP, a provision where lenders can buy default insurance from the government.

It hasn't even been put to paper yet so the details aren't available.  It's not clear which provisions really have teeth and which ones are for show.  I'm hoping the last one winds up being cosmetic, cause everything I've read says that the House GOP plan is dumb.

Now let's see if McCain can screw this one up too.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 04:41:40 PM by Willco »

TVC15

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 05:24:38 AM »
*Now* it sounds good to me.
serge

ToxicAdam

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 06:28:03 AM »
Mandark likes the bailout except for the Republican part of the plan. Big shocker.


Mandark

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 06:34:06 AM »
Paulson's not a Republican now?

MrAngryFace

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 06:43:49 AM »
McCain literally phoned it in when dealing with Capitol Hill today. I dont think he'll be mucking with things anymore.
o_0

TVC15

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 07:16:58 AM »
Mandark likes the bailout except for the Republican part of the plan. Big shocker.

While I have not read the nitty gritty, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the government becoming insurance for irresponsible lenders.
serge

Mandark

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 08:31:15 AM »
My first reaction was that insuring mortgage-backed securities now would be like insuring homes in New Orleans while Katrina was just off the coast.  The risk of default is so great you'd need to set the premiums really high, which would price out everyone except the banks with the worst assets.  Adverse selection times a billion.

If I read a bunch of smarty guys making smarty guy arguments for it I could be converted.  But Brad DeLong and Michael Ettlinger and Robert Waldmann and Mark Thoma and Justin Fox say it's a bad idea, and I haven't found a single credible person praising it, even among conservative wonks.  Nada from Alex Tabarrok, Tyler Cowen, Bruce Bartlett, Andrew Samwick.  Even the National Review crew can't pretend it's a good idea.  Mark Zandi, a McCain advisor who has written a book about the subprime crisis, says it would be less effective and cost more than the Paulson plan.

There's just no indication that this plan came from actual policy analysis or research.  It didn't originate in the finance committee or get passed on from think tanks to the House.  The (Republican, again) Treasury Department considered and rejected it on their own already.

I don't think we have to treat an idea as respectable just because a good chunk of representatives in one party endorsed it.  Congress has a pretty high capacity for dumb.

Human Snorenado

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 09:33:50 AM »
Indeed, the House GOP "plan" was just an ideological reaction to the situation they found themselves in.  They were in no way comfortable with a massive governmental intervention with the market, which is fine normally.  This isn't a normal situation though, and instead of reacting to the realities of the situation they tried to shove the situation into their ideology.  It's fine for Republicans to want less regulation and lower capital gains taxes- just not when shit like that is what got us into this mess in the first place. 

The insurance scheme was just a plain dumb idea.
yar

Tauntaun

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 09:36:39 AM »
Mandark likes the bailout except for the Republican part of the plan. Big shocker.

While I have not read the nitty gritty, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the government becoming insurance for irresponsible lenders.

Yeah that would be a bad thing

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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 10:31:53 AM »
I want to be bailed out.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2008, 10:50:00 AM »
I want to be bailed out.

Pfft.  We need you distinguished banking fellows to bail us gentiles out.  We're not too good with that money stuff!
yar

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2008, 12:06:04 PM »
Buffett to Congress: Act or face historic meltdown

Billionaire Warren Buffett told congressional negotiators that if they can't agree on a proposed financial bailout, the nation will face "its biggest financial meltdown in American history," two sources familiar with the talks said. Word of Buffett's warning came as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced "great progress" in reaching a deal on the White House's proposed $700 billion bailout.

....

WARREN BUFFET SAYS JEWPOCALYPSE IS COMING!
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2008, 12:15:00 PM »
I'm employed in one of Buffett's businesses.  I'm wondering what he will do during these times.  He just bought an energy company in Maryland last week.  He hates debt but at the same time, I could see him cutting loose all the newly hired people.
🍆🍆

Mandark

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 04:06:19 PM »
I want to be bailed out.

Willco is TOO LARGE TO FAIL!



Actually, "Too Large to Fail" wouldn't be a bad temporary EB banner motto.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2008, 06:06:08 PM »
i would vote for this
010

Kestastrophe

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 07:50:19 AM »
And honestly, variable rate mortgages should never have been legal.
I don't think it was variable rate mortgages that were necessarily the problem, it was the lack of disclosure about them. Many people thought they were getting into fixed rate loans or were not told that their payments could increase if interest rates went up. I did a simplified Excel analysis for a $200,000 mortgage over 30 years with variable rate. At 3%, the annualized payment was only $10,000. Increasing the interest rate to 8% resulted in a monthly payment of $17,600. There should have been sensitivity analysis on the part of the banks and financers to inform home buyers instead of pushing salesmen to meet a quota.
jon

Beardo

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 12:34:57 PM »


Who is in that picture...


Pelosi and Reid sure look happy about the bailout. And who is that in the background? Why it looks like Chris Dodd is having a swell time.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 12:38:32 PM by Beardo »

Himu

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 12:49:52 PM »
that picture is hilarious
IYKYK

Tauntaun

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 12:52:08 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Who is in that picture...


Pelosi and Reid sure look happy about the bailout. And who is that in the background? Why it looks like Chris Dodd is having a swell time.

Looks like he's saying, "It was me, I farted."  HUAHUAHUAHUA!!
:)

Flannel Boy

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2008, 12:58:19 PM »
Looks like Pelosi is gettin' fingered, and not by Barney Frank's giant sausage fingers.

TVC15

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 02:14:22 PM »
So far, looks like the house is rejecting the bailout.  Bye bye today's stock market.
serge

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 02:16:46 PM »
today's stock market was already trashed.
duc

Bocsius

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 02:18:44 PM »
So far, looks like the house is rejecting the bailout.  Bye bye today's stock market.


Tell me it's just the Republicans voting first, Dems to be counted later.

edit:

Quote
More than enough members of the House had cast votes to defeat the Bush administration-pushed bill, and the vote was being held open, apparently as efforts were under way to persuade people to change their vote.

%@#$
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:20:24 PM by Bocsius »

y2kev

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 02:19:09 PM »
fuckkk i can't BELIEVE THIS
haw

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 02:19:46 PM »
well, the dow plunged from -250 to -445, so i think it may be scuttled. thanks, republicans and your bumper sticker ideologies! BUBUBUBUBUBU SOCIALISM -- you dumbfucks don't even know what socialism is!
duc

TVC15

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2008, 02:20:40 PM »
According to Drudge:  House begins bailout vote [206 YEA; 227 NAY]... Developing...

That's just about everyone (430 something members in the House, right?)
serge

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2008, 02:22:49 PM »
i blame shitmericans and their unwillingness to pay for society

that extra hundred in taxes/month for the $100K+ set <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< WAITING IN AN UNEMPLOYMENT LINE GNAWING ON GOVERNMENT CHEESE
duc

demi

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2008, 02:24:33 PM »
Delicious government cheese. Thank you for your generosity.
fat

Bocsius

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2008, 02:24:50 PM »
If you'll excuse me, I'll be logging out right now to head to Canada.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 02:26:54 PM »
Bailout failed.
PSP

Bocsius

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:28 PM »

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:51 PM »
JEWPOCALYPSE HERE WE GO!
PSP

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2008, 02:28:11 PM »
So what happens now?

The Fake Shemp

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2008, 02:29:00 PM »
Uh, we kick the tires and light the fires?
PSP

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2008, 02:29:14 PM »
the "americans are being forced to choose between bread and freedom, and they are choosing freedom!" quote is quite possibly the most distinguished mentally-challenged excuse ever for fucking up a country just to get re-elected
duc

y2kev

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2008, 02:29:20 PM »
but we have to save main street!

their 401ks don't have ANY of these financial stocks in them! and businesses dont need loans for things! this is nonsense

everything is fine. enjoy your cheese.
haw

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2008, 02:30:16 PM »
the "americans are being forced to choose between bread and freedom, and they are choosing freedom!" quote is quite possibly the most distinguished mentally-challenged excuse ever for fucking up a country just to get re-elected

Americans are being forced to choose between HDTV and SDTV and they have chose third-world country status, which has no TVs. :(
PSP

Van Cruncheon

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2008, 02:30:25 PM »
americans don't want to bail out those fatcats!

YOU DUMBFUCKS WE ARE BAILING OUT ALL OF US EVEN YOU YES YOU POMPOUS YOKEL WHO SUPPOSEDLY SCRIMPED AND SAVED AND DIDN'T BUY A HOUSE

god anything ANYTHING to banish that stupid "i'm an island!" american ideological stupidity
duc

Smooth Groove

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2008, 02:30:32 PM »
Delicious government cheese. Thank you for your generosity.

I'll be donating large sums of money to charities in return for tax returns.  I just want to make sure that I'm not supporting your lazy ass.  

TVC15

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2008, 02:30:36 PM »
So what happens now?

I assume they try to secure the votes they need and push it through again (they only need 11-12 more to make it pass), or they rewrite it a bit and see if they can make the pig fly.
serge

y2kev

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2008, 02:31:59 PM »
americans don't want to bail out those fatcats!

YOU DUMBFUCKS WE ARE BAILING OUT ALL OF US EVEN YOU YES YOU POMPOUS YOKEL WHO SUPPOSEDLY SCRIMPED AND SAVED AND DIDN'T BUY A HOUSE
'"Clearly not a good sign for the credit market and for the U.S. economy on the whole," said Omer Esiner, a strategist at Ruesch International in Washington."

CREDIT MARKETS? I DONT KNOW NOTHING BOUT NO CREDIT MARKETS

HOORAY FOR BAILOUT DEFEAT
HOOORRAAYY
haw

demi

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Re: Gentlemen, we have a bailout!
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2008, 02:32:24 PM »
Delicious government cheese. Thank you for your generosity.

I'll be donating large sums of money to charities in return for tax returns.  I just want to make sure that I'm not supporting your lazy ass.  

Haha. I am sure a cure for cancer will show up when you donate to the next charity run. Thank you for prolonging my life.
fat

Van Cruncheon

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2008, 02:32:47 PM »
AH AIN'T GOTS NO CREDIT CARDS WAH DO I'S GOTS TO BAILOUT DEM FATCATS
duc

Bocsius

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2008, 02:33:48 PM »
Quote
The measure needs 218 votes for passage. Democrats voted 141 to 94 in favor of the plan, while Republicans voted 65 to 133 against. That left the measure with 206 votes for and 227 against.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

The Fake Shemp

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2008, 02:34:16 PM »
There's no way they'll get this bill to pass in its current form, TVC.  They're going to have to start from scratch.

So, as of this moment, I hereby suspend my administration, so I can take a Metro train to Capitol Hill with the spare change left in a glass dish tray I found outside - and will focus all my efforts on passing this bailout bill.  So that ALL evilborians can enjoy WHAT DID YOU BUY TODAY? threads without fear of the market collapsing, job security and all that jazz.  It's not fair to our Internet community to let these Washington fat cats impose their Ayn Rand ways on us.  And if I have to, I will take it all the way to the top!  And you know who I mean!

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Brehvolution

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2008, 02:35:56 PM »
It's all just a ploy to derail the Palin debate. I got $5 says the debate will be canceled for some crazy reason.
©ZH

patrickula

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2008, 02:37:55 PM »
I hope we can at least keep the internet  :'(

The Fake Shemp

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2008, 02:38:05 PM »
That's tin foil hat territory, Zero Hour.

Besides, McCain's camp had already severely altered the debate rules in Palin's favor.  They're not going to do anything else.

This means that we must prepare for rough economic times, across the globe.  Things are only going to get rougher for the European and Asian markets.  And imagine that job loss will go up dramatically in terms of domestic numbers.
PSP

Smooth Groove

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2008, 02:38:42 PM »
5 dollar bets?  

US economy  :'(

demi

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2008, 02:39:20 PM »
If you guys are interested, I can hook you up with some deals on Flashcarts and Modchips. It will save you lots of money.
fat

TVC15

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2008, 02:40:49 PM »
There's no way they'll get this bill to pass in its current form, TVC.  They're going to have to start from scratch.

I think they'll tinker with what they have throughout the week.  I think they're in too much of a hurry to start from scratch.
serge

The Fake Shemp

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2008, 02:42:07 PM »
Our money is worthless now, demi!  Stupid, dirty pirate!

And to be fair to the House Republicans that shot this down - they're only reacting to their constituents.  And to be fair to the uneducated masses - President Bush did a horrible job selling the American public on this bailout.

"Hey, look, like TAKE MY WORD FOR IT that we need to funnel $700 billion of your money to Wall Street without any kind of oversight!  I mean, trust me on this."

Bush should have created a much more well-rounded, bipartisan proposal in the first place, and he should have never, ever assumed he had any credibility with the American public.  If he was smart, he'd stay as far away from this thing as humanly possible.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2008, 02:42:21 PM »
Demi.  A true American hero.  :bow2

Van Cruncheon

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2008, 02:43:39 PM »
hopefully, the pending five-to-ten years of economic hell will make "capitalism" a dirty word
duc

Smooth Groove

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2008, 02:45:07 PM »
Demi.  A true American hero.  :bow2

Do you really want to worship someone that intentionally crippled himself in order to receive welfare? 

The Fake Shemp

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2008, 02:46:04 PM »
Prole, don't be so dramatic.  The Rapture will happen a lot sooner before this prolonged economic downturn ends!

KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRES!
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2008, 02:47:40 PM »
Demi.  A true American hero.  :bow2

Do you really want to worship someone that intentionally crippled himself in order to receive welfare? 

He did not.  It was an accidental half hanging when he was trying to masturbate while chocking himself.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2008, 02:48:23 PM »
the antichrist will be elected in these troubled times!

FOUR YEARS OF STRIFE UNTIL THE WORLD ENDS IN 2012

break out the guns, we gotta defend our gas convoys from SATAN
duc

TVC15

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2008, 02:49:24 PM »
I chock myself every night.
serge

Phoenix Dark

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Re: EDIT: Gentlemen, we do NOT have a bailout! House votes nay!
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2008, 02:49:39 PM »
playing politics>bread
010