Official oaken thread of ACORN

[Mandark]

ACORN registers poor voters, and does so by paying other poor people $8/hour to get registrations.

Multiple times, the people they've hired have submitted false registrations with names like Tony Romo and Mickey Mouse.  In many states ACORN is legally obligated to submit all the registrations, and in many cases they flag suspicious names while doing so.

However, it is very unlikely that Mickey Mouse will actually show up and cast a ballot, swinging the presidential election.

If anyone has any evidence that ACORN is involved in a co-ordinated effort to perpetrate voter fraud, or that they are conspiring to illegally influence an election in some other way, this is the thread for it.

[Bocsius]

It's not Mickey Mouse they should be concerned about, anyway. He's a neocon. True story.

The real menace is Pluto. Friend of Castro.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's also doubt that Tony Romo will show up and cast a ballot without dropping it

[TakingBackSunday]

He can't pick up the ballot in the first place.  I mean, you know, his pinky.

[Ganhyun]

Absentee ballots anyone?

2004 New Mexico initative ballot where fradulent Acorn registered voters signatures were added to add a wage initiative to the ballot, which affected that election.

[Phoenix Dark]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

[Mandark]

Ganhyun also said that ACORN was registering fake people to early-vote for Obama in Michigan.

What is wrong with that scenario?

[Bocsius]

The fact that Michigan is a Canadian province, for one.

[Ganhyun]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

[huckleberry]

This seems like a pretty decent article on the claims of widespread voter (and voter registration) fraud coming from the Right.

As the 2008 election process draws near -- and with early voting in many states having already begun -- conservatives are raising a great hue and cry about the threat of voter fraud. Attacks have centered on the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), the "nation's largest grassroots community organization of low- and moderate-income people," whose workers have registered 1.3 million new voters this year. Conservatives like Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL) and former Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell have seized on reports of improperly filled-out forms as evidence of "lawlessness" and "voting fraud," which will lead to "the kind of chaos you expect from a category-five hurricane." But mass voter fraud is just a conservative myth used to justify increasing the difficulty of the voting process. In an interview with Salon, Lori Minnite, a professor of political science at Barnard College who investigated allegations of widespread voter fraud, explained, "From 2002 to 2005 only one person was found guilty of registration fraud. Twenty people were found guilty of voting while ineligible and five people were found guilty of voting more than once. That's 26 criminal voters -- voters who vote twice, impersonate other people, vote without being a resident ... Meanwhile thousands of people are getting turned away at the polls."

COMPLEX AND ONEROUS RULES: Although the United States has a long and dark history of voter disenfranchisement and voter suppression, recent laws passed at the state and federal level have focused instead on the vaporous threat of voter fraud. These laws particularly discourage the poor and the young. Because voting, even for federal elections, is regulated by state law and administered at the local level, there is no consistent standard for voting machines, ballot design, the counting of provisional ballots, or voter identification. The 2002 Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires that "any voter who has not previously voted in a federal election" must provide a form of ID.  But "twenty-four states have broader voter identification requirements than what HAVA mandates" -- seven require photo ID for all voters, and 17 more require some form of ID. In April, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Indiana's draconian photo ID law that could disenfranchise as many as 400,000 voters, although Indiana Secretary of State Todd Rokita "conceded the state has never presented a case of 'voter impersonation.'" In his dissent, Justice David Souter compared Indiana's unjustified regulations to a poll tax, "because it correlates with no state interest so well as it does with the object of deterring poorer residents from exercising the franchise."

MASS DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND INTIMIDATION: Last week, the New York Times reported that "[t]ens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law." Last Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy issued a scathing order Wednesday "lambasting the Montana Republican Party for challenging the registrations of thousands of Montana voters," writing, "The timing of these challenges is so transparent that it defies common sense to believe the purpose is anything but political chicanery." On Sunday, the Ohio Republican Party "requested information on voters who registered to vote and cast an early ballot on the same day," not long after Greene County Sheriff Gene Fischer requested registration information -- including driver's license and Social Security numbers -- "for the 302 voters who took advantage of the window in that county, which has five colleges and universities, including two historically black colleges." In Indiana, state NAACP president Barbara Bolling said voters in three northern cities "are being disenfranchised each day they can't cast ballots at their local clerk's offices," after "two Republicans on the Lake County Election Board voted against the sites last month, contending in-person absentee voting makes vote fraud easier." In Colorado, the El Paso county clerk Bob Balink has engaged in an "emerging and consistent pattern" of purging voter rolls and challenging inaccurate registration information as "election fraud."



ROVE'S FINGERPRINTS: The Department of Justice, whose responsibilities include ensuring the right to fair elections, was subverted by the Bush administration to pursue the false threat of voter fraud. In 2002, former attorney general John Ashcroft announced an initiative that required "all components of the Department" to "place a high priority on the investigation and prosecution of election fraud." The 2006 purge of eight U.S. attorneys -- all lifelong Republicans -- at the behest of the Bush White House exposed the depths of this politicization. The White House justified the dismissals by telling reporters, "President Bush mentioned to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales in October that he had heard complaints from Congress that some federal prosecutors were lax in pursuing voter fraud." As the Washington Post reported last year, "Nearly half the U.S. attorneys slated for removal by the administration last year were targets of Republican complaints that they were lax on voter fraud, including efforts by presidential adviser Karl Rove to encourage more prosecutions of election-law violations." Rove has made it his specialty to raise the specter of vote fraud throughout his political career, from his days working on state races in Alabama.

Click the link to see the extra articles cited in the original.

[Mr. Gundam]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

What about voter suppression?

[Ganhyun]

Ganhyun also said that ACORN was registering fake people to early-vote for Obama in Michigan.

What is wrong with that scenario?

Early votes is the wrong term. I think I meant absentee ballots and such. Because after all, with a track record like ACORN has, what with all its fraud and such, they would NEVER use that to push their own agenda or such? Wait, they already have before. 04. New Mexico.

[Mr. Gundam]

Apparently Ganhyun supports voter suppression.

[Ganhyun]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

What about voter suppression?

Voter suppression is wrong too. I think, that if you are a legal US Citizen, you should be able to vote. But I also think you have to prove that you are a legal citizen.

That could be by driver's license, or social security card, or a voter id card or something. Yes I know the system isnt perfect, but we have to have a way to make sure that votes are legit and not 2nd or 3rd votes or such.

[TakingBackSunday]

I want to continue the argument from the election thread in here:

Ganhyun, what are you driving at when you say an absentee fake vote has happened before?  Link me plz.

[Ganhyun]

Apparently Ganhyun supports voter suppression.

give me time to respond jackass. sheesh.

[Mandark]

I think I meant

The unreliable narrator can be a useful and clever tool in fiction.  Not so much message boards.

[Mr. Gundam]

Apparently Ganhyun supports voter suppression.

give me time to respond jackass. sheesh.

I asked you about it in the other thread, and it went ignored.

[Ganhyun]

I want to continue the argument from the election thread in here:

Ganhyun, what are you driving at when you say an absentee fake vote has happened before?  Link me plz.

Sure, here is a link from March this year.

http://novbm.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/absentee-ballot-fraud-hits-texas-grannyfarming-a-longterm-problem/

From 04 I believe:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/09/12/absentee_ballot_fraud_worries_officials.html

Just two articles on the issue.

[Ganhyun]

Apparently Ganhyun supports voter suppression.

give me time to respond jackass. sheesh.

I asked you about it in the other thread, and it went ignored.

didnt see it. Sorry.

[huckleberry]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

What about voter suppression?

Voter suppression is wrong too. I think, that if you are a legal US Citizen, you should be able to vote. But I also think you have to prove that you are a legal citizen.

That could be by driver's license, or social security card, or a voter id card or something. Yes I know the system isnt perfect, but we have to have a way to make sure that votes are legit and not 2nd or 3rd votes or such.

This was covered in the Help America to Vote Act of 2002 and upheld (I believe) by the Supreme Court in an Indiana case a few years back.

[Phoenix Dark]

As if you needed any more evidence that the Republican effort to tout voter fraud is less about legitimate claims and more about a political agenda, consider this sequence of events:

Last week, as we noted at the time, the New Mexico GOP had publicly claimed that 28 people voted fraudulently in the Democratic primary, held in June, for a local race.

Then this morning, the RNC sent out a press release announcing a 3pm conference call with reporters "on the recent developments in New Mexico regarding ACORN."

But at 11am, ACORN -- the community organizing group that Republicans have been trying lately to turn into a voter fraud boogeyman -- held a conference call of its own, asserting that local election officials had confirmed that the 28 people in question, mostly low-income Latinos, were valid voters.

So here at TPMmuckraker, we wondered what the RNC's response to this would be. And on the 3pm call, we asked party spokesman Danny Diaz.

Diaz dodged the question. He talked about an incident with ACORN in Washington state, then referred us to an October 9th Wall Street Journal story, which did not address the allegation made last week by the state GOP about fraudulent voting in the Democratic primary. (Instead, it reported that the FBI had opened a preliminary investigation into thousands of fraudulent registration forms submitted in an area near an ACORN office.)

When we tried to follow up, Diaz cut us off and shifted the discussion toward a general attack on ACORN for submitting fraudulent registrations.

In other words, it looks like the RNC had scheduled a call to tout evidence of voter fraud -- not voter registration fraud, mind you, but actual voter fraud -- being perpetrated by ACORN in New Mexico. But when ACORN appeared to come up with compelling evidence that no such fraud had occurred, the RNC held the call anyway, simply shifting the focus to other vague allegations against ACORN -- then refused to address the New Mexico situation when asked.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/rnc_on_new_mexico_voter_fraud.php

Try again

[Mandark]

I want to continue the argument from the election thread in here:

Ganhyun, what are you driving at when you say an absentee fake vote has happened before?  Link me plz.

Sure, here is a link from March this year.

http://novbm.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/absentee-ballot-fraud-hits-texas-grannyfarming-a-longterm-problem/

From 04 I believe:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/09/12/absentee_ballot_fraud_worries_officials.html

Just two articles on the issue.

I will bet anyone here ONE MILLION DOLLARS that Ganhyun just popped Absentee Ballot Fraud into Google and copy/pasted the first and third links.

[Ganhyun]

I think I meant

The unreliable narrator can be a useful and clever tool in fiction.  Not so much message boards.

So I admit I used the wrong term and thought the term I meant was absentee ballot and you still attack me? What are you? Fucking Card Chaet's little brother? All you can do is attack people personally.

As if you needed any more evidence that the Republican effort to tout voter fraud is less about legitimate claims and more about a political agenda, consider this sequence of events:

Last week, as we noted at the time, the New Mexico GOP had publicly claimed that 28 people voted fraudulently in the Democratic primary, held in June, for a local race.

Then this morning, the RNC sent out a press release announcing a 3pm conference call with reporters "on the recent developments in New Mexico regarding ACORN."

But at 11am, ACORN -- the community organizing group that Republicans have been trying lately to turn into a voter fraud boogeyman -- held a conference call of its own, asserting that local election officials had confirmed that the 28 people in question, mostly low-income Latinos, were valid voters.

So here at TPMmuckraker, we wondered what the RNC's response to this would be. And on the 3pm call, we asked party spokesman Danny Diaz.

Diaz dodged the question. He talked about an incident with ACORN in Washington state, then referred us to an October 9th Wall Street Journal story, which did not address the allegation made last week by the state GOP about fraudulent voting in the Democratic primary. (Instead, it reported that the FBI had opened a preliminary investigation into thousands of fraudulent registration forms submitted in an area near an ACORN office.)

When we tried to follow up, Diaz cut us off and shifted the discussion toward a general attack on ACORN for submitting fraudulent registrations.

In other words, it looks like the RNC had scheduled a call to tout evidence of voter fraud -- not voter registration fraud, mind you, but actual voter fraud -- being perpetrated by ACORN in New Mexico. But when ACORN appeared to come up with compelling evidence that no such fraud had occurred, the RNC held the call anyway, simply shifting the focus to other vague allegations against ACORN -- then refused to address the New Mexico situation when asked.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/rnc_on_new_mexico_voter_fraud.php

Try again

Ok, hadn't seen or heard about that.  

[Ganhyun]

I want to continue the argument from the election thread in here:

Ganhyun, what are you driving at when you say an absentee fake vote has happened before?  Link me plz.

Sure, here is a link from March this year.

http://novbm.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/absentee-ballot-fraud-hits-texas-grannyfarming-a-longterm-problem/

From 04 I believe:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/09/12/absentee_ballot_fraud_worries_officials.html

Just two articles on the issue.

I will bet anyone here ONE MILLION DOLLARS that Ganhyun just popped Absentee Ballot Fraud into Google and copy/pasted the first and third links.

Deal, Because those are not 1st and 3rd links jackass. Stop attacking me personally you fucking douchbag socialist college intellectual.

Just because you dont like what they say, you try and fucking attack me.

[TakingBackSunday]

Mandark, holy shit  

[Mupepe]

I can't say much for ACORN, but I can really backup the allegations that the elections in New Mexico '04 were crooked as fuck.  I lived there during that time and there were tons of people crying foul play and the media didn't pay attention for shit.  Bill Richardson is a fucktwat by the way.

[Ganhyun]

Also, the second link I give you pulls from your precious New York Times.

lol.

[Ganhyun]

I can't say much for ACORN, but I can really backup the allegations that the elections in New Mexico '04 were crooked as fuck.  I lived there during that time and there were tons of people crying foul play and the media didn't pay attention for shit.  Bill Richardson is a fucktwat by the way.

How were they crooked?

[Phoenix Dark]

Ok, hadn't seen or heard about that. 

So are you going to admit that there is no evidence of fake people casting legitimate ballots that are counted towards election results? I'm not saying ACORN is a totally blameless - fake registrants clog the system and make the process slower for real voters - but while they are guilty of wasting time, they aren't guilty of rigging elections.

This is nothing more than a boogeyman to cast doubt on an Obama victory; FOX is focusing their attention on "fraud" in battleground states, many of which Obama will probably win in November. It's simply an attempt to explain why god fearing mainstream America is close to electing a liberal liberal pants on fire liberal who has anti-American friends

[TakingBackSunday]

Also, there is a clear difference between what ACORN is being blamed of now and what happened in many states during 2004.  Ohio fucked it all up.

[Mupepe]

I can't say much for ACORN, but I can really backup the allegations that the elections in New Mexico '04 were crooked as fuck.  I lived there during that time and there were tons of people crying foul play and the media didn't pay attention for shit.  Bill Richardson is a fucktwat by the way.

How were they crooked?

From a personal exampe, we had people coming by registering voters at my job there.  One of the guys registering us was actually trying to convince people to register twice.  He was suggesting using different addresses, like my father's, so I could go to another voting station.  Also, when I went to vote, they didn't even check my damn ID.  Plus, afterwards on the local news there were reports of people receiving voter registration cards in the mail for their dead parents (dead for like 3 or 4 years) and shit like that.

Fun.

[Mandark]

Deal, Because those are not 1st and 3rd links jackass. Stop attacking me personally you fucking douchbag socialist college intellectual.

Just because you dont like what they say, you try and fucking attack me.

Hm, that John Fund piece rose from 2nd to 1st.  I will modify my wager.

I will bet anyone here ONE MILLION DOLLARS that Ganhyun googled "absentee ballot fraud" and copy/pasted two of the first three links.

[Mupepe]

Mandark is gangsta up in this thread

[Phoenix Dark]

what's a college intellectual, Walter?

[Ganhyun]

Ok, hadn't seen or heard about that. 

So are you going to admit that there is no evidence of fake people casting legitimate ballots that are counted towards election results? I'm not saying ACORN is a totally blameless - fake registrants clog the system and make the process slower for real voters - but while they are guilty of wasting time, they aren't guilty of rigging elections.

This is nothing more than a boogeyman to cast doubt on an Obama victory; FOX is focusing their attention on "fraud" in battleground states, many of which Obama will probably win in November. It's simply an attempt to explain why god fearing mainstream America is close to electing a liberal liberal pants on fire liberal who has anti-American friends

i'll admit that there are no examples I personally know of Pheonix, since the example I had found seems to have been debunked, but I stand by my stance that it probably does happen and isnt noticed or is overlooked.  After all, if even the New york Times reports on it as possible, its likely happened/happening.

From the Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/13/politics/campaign/13vote.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Edit: forgot link

In the four years since the last presidential election, prosecutors have brought criminal cases in at least 15 states for fraud in absentee voting.

I wish they had listed where they found this information.

[Ganhyun]

what's a college intellectual, Walter?

college intellectual: definition: a word I just made up, lol.

[TakingBackSunday]

i'll admit that there are no examples I personally know of Pheonix, since the example I had found seems to have been debunked, but I stand by my stance that it probably does happen and isnt noticed or is overlooked.  After all, if even the New york Times reports on it as possible, its likely happened/happening.

And I'll keep telling myself Weezer still makes awesome music, but it usually doesn't happen.

[ShogunOfFear]

I want to continue the argument from the election thread in here:

Ganhyun, what are you driving at when you say an absentee fake vote has happened before?  Link me plz.

Sure, here is a link from March this year.

http://novbm.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/absentee-ballot-fraud-hits-texas-grannyfarming-a-longterm-problem/

From 04 I believe:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/09/12/absentee_ballot_fraud_worries_officials.html

Just two articles on the issue.

I will bet anyone here ONE MILLION DOLLARS that Ganhyun just popped Absentee Ballot Fraud into Google and copy/pasted the first and third links.

Deal, Because those are not 1st and 3rd links jackass. Stop attacking me personally you fucking douchbag socialist college intellectual.

Just because you dont like what they say, you try and fucking attack me.

 

[Tristam]

lol @ the butthurt. I'd be careful, naysayers, 'cuz Ganhyun will smite you with the almighty PROOF given in Michelle Malkin's blog.

[etiolate]

Is ACORN republican for Florida?

[Brehvolution]

Thread title

[AdmiralViscen]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/rnc_on_new_mexico_voter_fraud.php


Oops turns out those 28 people exist.

[Phoenix Dark]

You have no proof that fake people who cast absentee ballots were actually counted in election results.

no proof? Come on.

http://www.koat.com/politics/17736001/detail.html?rss=alb&psp=news

The New Mexico Republican Party said they believe 28 people voted fraudulently in an Albuquerque state House district in the June Democratic primary.

The Republican Party found the problems in a review of 92 newly registered voters in House District 13.

State Rep. Justine Fox-Young, an Albuquerque Republican, said a number of the suspected fraudulent voters voted by absentee ballot.

Granted these were found. But think about it. Makes you wonder how many of these fraudulent voters registered arent used to send in fake absentee ballots and not caught.

And as I said before, I hate all voter fraud and registration fraud.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/rnc_on_new_mexico_voter_fraud.php


Oops turns out those 28 people exist.

http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=25841.msg673199#msg673199

[AdmiralViscen]

Yea, I was working my way down the page and I saw his shit went unopposed for 5 or 6 posts so I jumped on it.

[Fresh Prince]

I never understood this about the US. Why not just get everyone on social security within a county on the list?