Controller >>> Mouse for FPS

[CHOW CHOW]

I was thinking about which I liked better after reading a thread at OA about L4D PC version and here are my musings.

* Movement is easier (at least for me). I never liked having to use WASD to move around. It always felt unnatural and cumbersome
* Rumble! I absolutely love rumble. I think it adds a lot to the experience, both in terms of immersion and gameplay.
* Comfort - It's simply a lot more comfortable and convenient to hold a small controller then a keyboard & mouse

The main advantage that kb & m has over the controller is very precise aiming. I've been using a controller for so many years now that I have no issue with that.

As for Left 4 Dead, I don't think the exact aiming that a kb & m gives you is that big of a deal because you constantly get swarmed by tons of zombies. It isn't a game where you only see a few enemies and have to get precise headshots and shit, you get swarmed by tons of enemies.

Overall, I much prefer the controller. Elitist PC gamers might think I'm crazy but whatever... enjoy lugging around your keyboard and mouse + mousepad + some surface to put the mouse on + your mountain dew and cheetos.

Thoughts?

[Joe Molotov]

Nah.

[Eel O'Brian]

You're right about L4D for the most part, although precision does play a part when you're trying to take down a Hunter leaping all around.

I agree with you about the keyboard for movement, it's never felt that natural to me, but I invested $35 into one of these a long while ago

http://www.ideazon.com/us/products/fanggamepad.asp

and it really helps - it fits in your hand well

i just wish it was cordless

[Positive Touch]

what a rube

[CHOW CHOW]

I've noticed that the two people who disagree didn't have a response to any of my points.  It's because I'm right..

[Positive Touch]

I've noticed that the two people who disagree didn't have a response to any of my points.  It's because I'm right..

* Movement is easier (at least for me). I never liked having to use WASD to move around. It always felt unnatural and cumbersome

well since EVERY FUCKING PC GAME has customizable controls, you can just change them to something more comfortable, like I do

* Rumble! I absolutely love rumble. I think it adds a lot to the experience, both in terms of immersion and gameplay.

cigarillo

* Comfort - It's simply a lot more comfortable and convenient to hold a small controller then a keyboard & mouse

not really

The main advantage that kb & m has over the controller is very precise aiming. I've been using a controller for so many years now that I have no issue with that.

and the auto-aim probably helps, too

chow chow

[CHOW CHOW]

well since EVERY FUCKING PC GAME has customizable controls, you can just change them to something more comfortable, like I do

So XXXX letters is going to be that much better than WASD?  Nah

not really

Yes, really.  Small, ergonomic controller >>> keyboard + mouse + surface for mouse + cheetos.  This is a fact...

[Eel O'Brian]

With L4D, it's due to the game design.  Zombies rush at you in throngs, precision isn't as crucial since you can just spray into the crowd and take the whole bunch out in a few shots.  There are no iron sights in the game because they aren't necessary.  Zombies in the background stagger around slowly or stand in place, and precision is less of an issue.  Hunters leap and climb, and that's where the precision comes into play.  It's intentional because the game was designed for frantic moments, and no one is going to be pinpointing single zombies when a crowd of a dozen is bearing down on them.  Auto aim, really, isn't even necessary in the game.

Call of Duty, on the other hand, absolutely requires a certain amount of precision, and if it weren't for the slightly magnetic "stickiness" of auto aim, I doubt the game would be much fun on a controller.  I immediately noticed differences in the beta between the PC and 360 versions.

I prefer a stick for movement since keyboard finger presses have always felt slightly awkward to me, but I certainly prefer a mouse for look/aim.

Ideally, for me, would be an attachment somewhat like the nintendo nunchuk that I could use for moving/crouching/jumping, and a mouse and pad for aiming.  That's just for fps games, though.  RTS and other games which require many keypresses are generally borderline unplayable on consoles due to complicated controller schemes.

[John Dunbar]

This is what happens when you let people play Halo.

[Tieno]

Always said it but the I'm way more comfortable with a controller, sitting on a couch that it offsets the superior aiming of a mouse and keyboard. I like and prefer it and it's pretty much a non-debate, that is all.

[CHOW CHOW]

With L4D, it's due to the game design.  Zombies rush at you in throngs, precision isn't as crucial since you can just spray into the crowd and take the whole bunch out in a few shots.  There are no iron sights in the game because they aren't necessary.  Zombies in the background stagger around slowly or stand in place, and precision is less of an issue.  Hunters leap and climb, and that's where the precision comes into play.  It's intentional because the game was designed for frantic moments, and no one is going to be pinpointing single zombies when a crowd of a dozen is bearing down on them.  Auto aim, really, isn't even necessary in the game.

Call of Duty, on the other hand, absolutely requires a certain amount of precision, and if it weren't for the slightly magnetic "stickiness" of auto aim, I doubt the game would be much fun on a controller.  I immediately noticed difference in the beta between the PC and 360 versions.

I prefer a stick for movement since keyboard finger presses have always felt slightly awkward to me, but I certainly prefer a mouse for look/aim.

Exactly my point.  It's not the overwhelmingly clear-cut choice that PC distinguished effete fellows want you to believe.  Each has its advantages.

wow, since when did f a g become censored?

[Mupepe]

PC keys for movement has always pissed me off.  It doesn't feel natural to me.

However, I do I think a Mouse is tons better for FPS in general.  But I just think a controller is more comfortable and usually it's hooked up to a console which is hooked up to my 60 inch tv in front of my comfy couch.  Plus, if it's on a console, it doesn't crash all the time and I don't have to play the damn game with no character heads because I choose to use medium settings and Bethesda thought it would be funny to fuck over sm 2.1 in ATI graphics cards.

YEAH I JUST TURNED THIS INTO A PC Gaming thread

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I still would rather play it on my PC, I'm just bitter right now

[close]

[Don Flamenco]

I was thinking about which I liked better after reading a thread at OA about L4D PC version and here are my musings.

* Movement is easier (at least for me). I never liked having to use WASD to move around. It always felt unnatural and cumbersome

At least for you.   I'm guessing you haven't played a PC game since Doom though, because WASD movement is great with a mouse. 

* Rumble! I absolutely love rumble. I think it adds a lot to the experience, both in terms of immersion and gameplay.

and I only notice it when I'm watching a cutscene with a long explosion and decide to place it in my lap 

* Comfort - It's simply a lot more comfortable and convenient to hold a small controller then a keyboard & mouse

This I'll agree with.

The main advantage that kb & m has over the controller is very precise aiming. I've been using a controller for so many years now that I have no issue with that.

As for Left 4 Dead, I don't think the exact aiming that a kb & m gives you is that big of a deal because you constantly get swarmed by tons of zombies. It isn't a game where you only see a few enemies and have to get precise headshots and shit, you get swarmed by tons of enemies.

Overall, I much prefer the controller. Elitist PC gamers might think I'm crazy but whatever... enjoy lugging around your keyboard and mouse + mousepad + some surface to put the mouse on + your mountain dew and cheetos.

You've been playing games that don't require very precise aiming.  Your console games are programmed for analog sticks.  People who play both PC and console games notice the difference.  I just played GoW2, the first console shooter I've played in about a year or two, and it was driving me nuts how imprecise it was.  But the reticules are huge and you can have most of the reticule off the enemy and still kill them.  It felt unnatural and arcade-ish. Console shooters hold your hand in several ways.

Left 4 Dead is a horrible example.  I can turn in about half a second or less in that game with KB+M (which you need to do when getting surrounded.) You can't do that on analog sticks...I find you have to back up at the same time because turning is slow, even with high sensitivity.

Thoughts?

Your arguments are bad and you should feel bad

[Eel O'Brian]

360 version compensates for slow analog turn in L4D with a quick 180 turn button

[Don Flamenco]

360 version compensates for slow analog turn in L4D with a quick 180 turn button

Sounds janky as hell, though it probably works well enough to get the job done.  I wonder if there are more zombies and if they're more aggressive in the PC version.

[Eel O'Brian]

zombie amounts seem the same, as does aggressiveness

bodies disappear in the 360 version

seems a bit washed out and slightly blurred in graffix comparison

quick turn button works well

your characters don't really talk in the 360 version like they do in the pc version

plus, absolutely no dev console to fart around and have fun with, and no mods, look forward to $10 map packs on XBL

pc version >>>> 360 version, but 360 version is fine, and you can split-screen with a pal

[duckman2000]

Playing Rainbow Six 3 on Xbox immediately after playing Raven Shield and wondering what in the hell that big red circle on the screen was said all that was needed to be said about gamepads vs kb/m.

[CHOW CHOW]

Th

YEAH I JUST TURNED THIS INTO A PC Gaming thread

There's also the whole local gaming factor that PC distinguished effete fellows seem to ignore.  Having the convenience of handing a second controller over to a friend (or two, or three) and jump into some split-screen mulit-player Halo, or a game of Madden, or a bout of Goro vs. The Flash in the upcoming classic that is MK vs. DC Universe, is something that simply can't be replicated on PC without major modifications to your setup, if at all.

[Don Flamenco]

Th

YEAH I JUST TURNED THIS INTO A PC Gaming thread

There's also the whole local gaming factor that PC distinguished effete fellows seem to ignore.  Having the convenience of handing a second controller over to a friend (or two, or three) and jump into some split-screen mulit-player Halo, or a game of Madden, or a bout of Goro vs. The Flash in the upcoming classic that is MK vs. DC Universe, is something that simply can't be replicated on PC without major modifications to your setup, if at all.

see, you ask for alternate arguments, then cite MK vs. DC as some high water mark of multiplayer.  smh

@ "major modifications."  you plug in a second controller/arcade stick, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow. and you don't have to play MK vs. DC, you have your choice of real fighting games.

[MrAngryFace]

haha no

[CHOW CHOW]

Is there even a PC version of Madden this year? 

PC gaming simply isn't suited for local play with friends.

So, to recap:

+ Better movement
+ Much more comfort and convenience
+ Rumble
+ Local play with friends that come over
- Worse aiming

KB & M:
+ Better aiming
- Worse everything else
- Local play with friends is a chore, no Madden
- Cheetos

Seriously, I've never once heard of someone "plugging in a second arcade stick" and playing a PC game like that.  I don't even think most PC games have split-screen options. 

[CajoleJuice]

just no

i really couldn't take playing L4D on 360 AT ALL

it was awful

and now you're bringing in arguments that have nothing to do with controls

[CHOW CHOW]

i just assumed it had turned into a pc gaming sux thread

[CajoleJuice]

And why can't you eat Cheetos while playing PC games, again?

[CHOW CHOW]

means ur fat

[Don Flamenco]

Seriously, I've never once heard of someone "plugging in a second arcade stick" and playing a PC game like that.

that's because you've never even thought about or read anything about PC gaming until you made this thread.

I don't even think most PC games have split-screen options.

it's called a LAN. 


Leper this filth

 

[CHOW CHOW]

i know about LAN but what kind of a nerd brings friends over to play LAN PC games?  like that's convenient in any way at all

[duckman2000]

i know about LAN but what kind of a nerd brings friends over to play LAN PC games?  like that's convenient in any way at all

Beats sitting down and playing the video game version of the world's slowest ball game this side of cricket against other people who like to play the video game version of the world's slowest ball game this side of cricket. WILD homo.

[Don Flamenco]

i know about LAN but what kind of a nerd brings friends over to play LAN PC games?  like that's convenient in any way at all

I don't know, what kind of a nerd argues about KB+M vs. controllers on a video game message board?   

[fistfulofmetal]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahaa hahahahahaaaaa hahahahaahhhaaa hahahahaha


hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha ahahahaa

[MrAngryFace]

means ur fat

I actually cant argue with this haha.

[CHOW CHOW]

look

the comfort and convenience factor cannot be denied

holding the glorious, ergonomic 360 controller >>> keyboard + mouse + surface for mouse

for A LOT of people, that right there is reason enough to prefer using a controller over kb & m, and that's not even including other factors such as rumble, easier movement (for some), and ease of local play

[duckman2000]

for A LOT of people, that right there is reason enough to prefer using a controller over kb & m, and that's not even including other factors such as rumble, easier movement (for some), and ease of local play

A lot of people are also stupid and lazy. Doesn't make it a good thing.

[jaelblade]

I'd rather use a mouse and keyboard. Rumble is nice i suppose but it's always felt like a gimmick to me. That and the sheer precision and speed you get from a mouse far outweighs any controller.

That being said I think the wii should have the ultimate first person shooters. You get a joystick to move, full rumble and precise shooting. Now if only it was used well.

[cool breeze]

I think kb/m is much better than a controller. I really don't care if it's lacking rumble or anything since it's in general a much more engaging way to play.  It's not like I don't care about rumble either since it was apparently when I first used the sixaxis controller.

[CajoleJuice]

means ur fat

I actually cant argue with this haha.

i'm not fat

[Don Flamenco]

me neither.  also, fuck cheetos.  It's all about buffalo bleu kettle chips 

[fistfulofmetal]

look

the comfort and convenience factor cannot be denied

holding the glorious, ergonomic 360 controller >>> keyboard + mouse + surface for mouse

for A LOT of people, that right there is reason enough to prefer using a controller over kb & m, and that's not even including other factors such as rumble, easier movement (for some), and ease of local play

That's not even an arguement. You could use that for anything. "Well I can eat a TV dinner at home on my couch, something I can't do with the food at that fancy restaurant downtown." Doesn't necessarily make the TV dinner better than the food at the restaurant.


Then using "easier movement (for some)" emphasizes your weak arguement. Of course some people will prefer A over B, that doesn't mean A is better than B.

There are facts involved. You can achieve more precise movement and aim with a mouse and keyboard than with a controller. Some people may not be able to get the best out of a kb/m, but it doesn't mean kb/m is inferior.
Just means they are themselves inferior.

[Don Flamenco]

also, i play with kb+m on a couch. PIME TARADOX

[drohne]

m+kb kills my hands. hl2 was twice as enjoyable on 360 where the overlong vehicle levels weren't a PHYSICAL TORTURE

pinpoint aiming precision isn't that important in shooters designed for consoles anyway, and at this point nobody designs games for pcs

and come to think of it the weighty feel of console shooters is better than the archaic pc feel of something like left 4 dead

[MrAngryFace]

This is turning into a casual vs hardcore argument.

[CHOW CHOW]

^ nailed it (drohne)

although i love left 4 dead, the archaic, sliding feel of the movement brought me back to 2001

fistfulofmetal -- i see what you're saying but i really don't think that analogy works

[Vizzys]

i prefer cheez-its over cheetos


keyboard for movement has never felt too good for me, been fps gaming on pc for a while, but it offers more buttons for customization and a mouse is purely better for aiming so imo the combination is slightly better for some games.

[duckman2000]

Another piece of evidence supporting the 'fuck controllers' side is the absence of lean in the console versions of COD4.

[CajoleJuice]

i think i have misjudged duckman

king sfag with a brain

[Vizzys]

this thread is now about the logitech mx518 now that discussion has died down and kb/m has been named victor

i bought it purely on a whim like three years ago and its still the best mouse I have ever used

logitech

[MrAngryFace]

kb/m is winner forever amen

[Don Flamenco]

the mx518 looks nice.  Ever since my Razor Deathadder bit the dust (it had several hard drops and was stepped on multiple times, hehe), I've been looking for a good replacement...I wasn't a huge fan of the deathadder. it was too big and not shaped to my liking.

[CHOW CHOW]

[Eel O'Brian]

yeah, my sole complaint about kb/m is using the keys for movement

always feels like my fingers are about to slip and hit the wrong key

that fang gamepad really helps by eliminating the unnecessary keys

for all else, pc gaming > consoles

when i am playing left 4 dead in Crossroads Mall



for free, and looking over at my 360 copy of L4D which hasn't been patched or updated in six months, well...

[Don Flamenco]

yeah, my sole complaint about kb/m is using the keys for movement

always feels like my fingers are about to slip and hit the wrong key

that fang gamepad really helps by eliminating the unnecessary keys

for all else, pc gaming > consoles

when i am playing left 4 dead in Crossroads Mall



for free, and looking over at my 360 copy of L4D which hasn't been patched or updated in six months, well...

wow, that's sweet.  can't wait until I get a decent internet connection so I can play the hell out of this.

[MrAngryFace]

Console Pad for FPS types are like the rookies in the military that think theyre awesome cause they used to play paintball back home.

[Vizzys]

damn that map is impressive

[drew]

now do the mansion in 28 days later please

[drew]

> Dawn of the Dead by a country mile

[MrAngryFace]

I liked the dawn of the dead remake, it was hilarious

[demi]

I guess Mouse is fine, but I would decimate anyone here regardless of control method. I would eradicate you and make you delete your account from shame.

[Eel O'Brian]

probably would, i have never been an ace player

i averaged about the middle in scoring during my bf1942, COD, and Enemy Territory days

[cool breeze]

Dawn of the Dead remake was awesome.  I need to buy it on blu-ray.

[Brehvolution]

WASD does suck. That is why I re-map the movement to the arrow keys. I use right ctrl to jump, right shift to duck and ENTER to use. All easy to get at with my pinky. Re-map reload to 0 on the numpad and use my thumb for that. Re-map grenade to END. But having a 5 button mouse is crucial. I use 'last used weapon' for mouse button 3 and melee to mouse button 4. Keyboard clutter solved.