Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State

[Mandark]

When the first stories broke I assumed they were just poorly sourced rumors that the media was running because of the star power involved.  Egg on my face.



I guess this appointment is the fulfillment of this:

[Phoenix Dark]

I thought the rumors were just complimentary, sort of in the vein of the Hillary VP rumors

Is this day more bitter for butthurt republicans than November 4th was?

[Cheebs]

I am really proud of Obama for asking her, it takes a pretty big man to not hold grudges like that.

[duckman2000]

The hell, how in the hell can she remain in politics after that "sniper fire" incident? 

[Beardo]

The hell, how in the hell can she remain in politics after that "sniper fire" incident? 

Because she's a politician?

[Eric P]

you assume the clintons have a sense of shame

[Fresh Prince]

I am really proud of Obama for asking her, it takes a pretty big man to not hold grudges like that.

I doubt Obama has 'pure' reasons for this pick.

[TakingBackSunday]

So wait, is it confirmed?

[Cheebs]

So wait, is it confirmed?

99.9999999% confirmed, so more or less.

[Mandark]

I have no idea how this pick would work out.

A lot of the early analysis was about why she'd take the job.  "She's got a lifetime guaranteed Senate seat!  Secretaries of State usually get one term."  I doubt being a Senator means a ton to her but I don't think she would have left for just any cabinet position.

Hopefully this means she's taking the job with an eye towards major accomplishments, rather than being a single-term caretaker like Warren Christopher.  I could see Obama giving her a fair amount of autonomy, since his plate is so full on the domestic side.  He might point her at the Middle East and say "go".

The possible downside is that she has been more hawkish than Obama and has her own network.  Best case that was just posturing to make herself a more acceptable candidate.  Worst case she's just plain comfortable with using violence to settle things.  Plus she has enough connections that she could staff State with people more loyal to her than to Obama and could carry out some Team B operations that undermined his plans.

I hope Hillary feels free to unleash her Real True Inner Liberal Self and that such a thing exists.

All of Obama's appointees so far have been people likely to get a quick handle on their respective bureaucracies and be able to implement Obama's agenda, rather than people who would bring their own agenda.  Hillary's a bit of a departure from that.

Talk about a run in 2012 is crazy.  I think even talk about a run in 2016 misses the point.

Kerry was pretty meh, and Richardson isn't taken seriously by anyone in the IR field.  What surprised me about the shortlist is that it was three former presidential candidates, with no foreign policy heads.  No Holbrooke, Talbott, Lake, etc.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, I don't get this pick at all.  The Emanuel pick at least made some sense as he's someone with proven ability relevant to his new job, this just seems like "appoint random politically powerful individual to random major office". 

[siamesedreamer]

This will be a disaster for Obama.

The turf battles will be epic.

Now that it's considered a foregone conclusion that Sen. Hillary Clinton will be the next secretary of State, the chattering class is weighing in, including legendary reporter Bob Woodward. FishbowlDC has obtained an advanced transcript of this weekend's "The Chris Matthews Show", in which the famed Washington Post reporter had this to say about Clinton's nomination as SoS:

Being president is about control, and tell me who ever controlled Bill or Hillary Clinton. They can't control each other. ... I think it's because Warren Buffett and Paul Volcker and others have convinced Obama, 'You're going to have to focus like a laser on the economy. That's issue Number One. And give Hillary and Bill the world.' ... I think people are fantasizing or smoking something if they think Joe Biden's going to call Hillary Clinton up and say, 'This is what we want you to do.'

Gonna be soooooo much fun...

[Fragamemnon]

Hillary's a good pick. I think that she would have been veep if not for the way Bill is sort of a loose cannon on a campaign trail.

I think the notion of turf wars and under the table subverting of Obama's foreign policy is unlikely, I think for her this is about her desire to be more than being very recongizable back-bencher in the Senate.

The State department will likely have a mix of Clinton and Obama network folk at varying points in the management chain, so I'm not too worried about the State Department becoming The Clinton Resistance overnight or anything.

[Bloodwake]

I'm not too disappointed.

She's not President, and she seems qualified enough IMO.

[TakingBackSunday]

I knew sd would think this would be a horrible pick, lol

I'm not completely sold on it, but I don't see how this is horrible

[laesperanzapaz]

i think this is a huge mistake

obama owes absolutely nothing to clinton, but the man is such that i think he is far more likely to have done this because of some real pragmatic reason as opposed to 'hillaryis popular and i think i owe her something for her Prez loss' ... but what could that reason[s) be?

still, i do not expect hillary to be able to rein in her tremendous arrogance and self-servitude

[Cheebs]

i think this is a huge mistake

obama owes absolutely nothing to clinton, but the man is such that i think he is far more likely to have done this because of some real pragmatic reason as opposed to 'hillaryis popular and i think i owe her something for her Prez loss' ... but what could that reason[s) be?

still, i do not expect hillary to be able to rein in her tremendous arrogance and self-servitude

read team of rivals. It's obama favorite political book. It's about how Lincoln put his political enemies in his cabniet, a team of rivals. Obama is trying to follow this method.

[Phoenix Dark]

that doesn't make it a good idea. if he thought she was too much of a problem/unqualified/rogue/etc he wouldn't have chosen her just because Team of Rivals is a favorite book of his

I'm sure she'll be on the same page as Obama most of the time, and this should work out well.

[Cheebs]

that doesn't make it a good idea. if he thought she was too much of a problem/unqualified/rogue/etc he wouldn't have chosen her just because Team of Rivals is a favorite book of his

I'm sure she'll be on the same page as Obama most of the time, and this should work out well.

Obama idolizes lincoln and has said he has read over 50 books about him. This isn't shocking.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm just saying he's not simply doing this because he loved Lincoln's ideas; Obama's too smart for that. If he thought Hillary was a problem he wouldn't consider her.

I bet John Edwards is crying himself to sleep somewhere

[Human Snorenado]

I'm just saying he's not simply doing this because he loved Lincoln's ideas; Obama's too smart for that. If he thought Hillary was a problem he wouldn't consider her.

I bet John Edwards is crying himself to sleep somewhere

Pfft, Edwards will be AG or HUD sec for Obama's second term.

[Cheebs]

I'm just saying he's not simply doing this because he loved Lincoln's ideas; Obama's too smart for that. If he thought Hillary was a problem he wouldn't consider her.

I bet John Edwards is crying himself to sleep somewhere

Pfft, Edwards will be AG or HUD sec for Obama's second term.

Edwards is politically dead, but even so he is a self-absorbed asshole. So I sure hope not.

[Joe Molotov]

Now when Obama fails, he'll drag Hilary down with him. Nothing will stop the Palin Presidential Juggernaut.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm just saying he's not simply doing this because he loved Lincoln's ideas; Obama's too smart for that. If he thought Hillary was a problem he wouldn't consider her.

I bet John Edwards is crying himself to sleep somewhere

Pfft, Edwards will be AG or HUD sec for Obama's second term.

Edwards is politically dead, but even so he is a self-absorbed asshole. So I sure hope not.

Cheebs, Cheebs, Cheebs.  Show me a politician that isn't a self-absorbed asshole and then I will show you a politician with no chance of winning a race.

[Cheebs]

I know, I know. But for some reason when he cheated on his wife it pissed me off more than normal politicians. When Bill did it I didn't care. Probably cause Elizabeth Edwards is such a likeable gal.

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm just saying he's not simply doing this because he loved Lincoln's ideas; Obama's too smart for that. If he thought Hillary was a problem he wouldn't consider her.

I bet John Edwards is crying himself to sleep somewhere

Pfft, Edwards will be AG or HUD sec for Obama's second term.

Edwards is politically dead, but even so he is a self-absorbed asshole. So I sure hope not.

Cheebs, Cheebs, Cheebs.  Show me a politician that isn't a self-absorbed asshole and then I will show you a politician with no chance of winning a race.

Ron Pa--

...

[siamesedreamer]

I don't think its a horrible pick. Hell, I may have even voted for her had she been the nominee.

I just don't understand the reasoning from either side's point of view.

[Mandark]

read team of rivals. It's obama favorite political book. It's about how Lincoln put his political enemies in his cabniet, a team of rivals. Obama is trying to follow this method.

Shut up.

[laesperanzapaz]

read team of rivals. It's obama favorite political book. It's about how Lincoln put his political enemies in his cabniet, a team of rivals. Obama is trying to follow this method.

Shut up.

...what the fuck is your problem? [lol you edited]

@ Cheebs: "I'm doin it cause my favorite idol that I emulate did it" is nowhere near a valid reason.  As PD said, knowing Obama, he's way too savvy to do such a stupid, emulatory [sp?] thing.  He's too level headed.  So that means he must think that Hillary will serve a very good, practical purpose for his agenda.

I just kinda disagree with him, but we'll see.

[The Fake Shemp]

Bruce Campbell is my idol, so I sawed off my hand and replaced it with a chainsaw.

[Mandark]

Just as everyone is getting sick to death of hearing about Doris Godwin Kearns and her damned book, when you could put together a drinking game using cable news and the phrase "Team of rivals", Cheebs posts about it like he's the first to reveal this nugget of insider info.

If we wanted someone who posts like Manabyte, why didn't we just get Manabyte himself to post here?


O WAIT.

[y2kev]

Just as everyone is getting sick to death of hearing about Doris Godwin Kearns and her damned book, when you could put together a drinking game using cable news and the phrase "Team of rivals", Cheebs posts about it like he's the first to reveal this nugget of insider info.

If we wanted someone who posts like Manabyte, why didn't we just get Manabyte himself to post here?


O WAIT.

[Loki]

The possible downside is that she has been more hawkish than Obama and has her own network.  Best case that was just posturing to make herself a more acceptable candidate.  Worst case she's just plain comfortable with using violence to settle things.  Plus she has enough connections that she could staff State with people more loyal to her than to Obama and could carry out some Team B operations that undermined his plans.

This is EXACTLY what worried me when I heard about this.  Let's hope she plays nice and that the public is so war weary that she'd be vilified if she expressed any opinion too divergent from Obama's platform.

[Mandark]

Hillary has been a very good team player both as a Senator and as a campaigner for Obama (unlike Bill).  She doesn't have a Manichean view of the world, unlike some of the crazies in the current administration.  I think she's generally sympatico with Obama's views and her attacks on Obama's "gaffes" was more opportunism than ideology.

So I don't think there's the same split on worldview and ideology that there was in the Carter, Reagan, and Bush II administrations.  And I think Obama's strong enough not to become a puppet of whoever controls his briefings.

But you never know what crisis they'll have to respond to (Kashmir? Saudi Arabia?) and what unexpected details might cause a schism.

Also, to the extent that this is an administrative job, Hillary has some question marks after the 90's health reform and her 2008 campaign.

I'm just so wishy-washy about this.

[ToxicAdam]

Well, better than Kerry.

[Human Snorenado]

Well, better than Kerry.

Oh, don't worry.  He's gonna be Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, so you're not rid of Lurch just yet!

[Boogie]

I don't think its a horrible pick. Hell, I may have even voted for her had she been the nominee.

 

Like hell you would have.

read team of rivals. It's obama favorite political book. It's about how Lincoln put his political enemies in his cabniet, a team of rivals. Obama is trying to follow this method.

Shut up.

Thank you.  Gawd Cheebs is annoying.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Clinton is a team player; she'll be just fine.  I don't expect any kind of significant opposition to Obama, although I'm sure talk show radio hosts are rubbing their small, withered cocks at the prospect of it.

[Phoenix Dark]

I haven't finished reading the Newsweek behind-the-scenes article but most of the Hillary stuff suggests she's not nearly as confident or Machiavellian as advertised. Sounds like Bill is the real asshole

[y2kev]

Can someone tell me more about this "team of rivals"? This is such an interesting concept. I thought most teams are "teams of friends" or even "teams of family members," but this "team of rivals" frankly fascinates me and confuses me like i have never known

[ToxicAdam]

[Cheebs]

TEAM OF RIVALS. 


I basically take everything I hear on Chris Matthews and repeat it.

[Mandark]

Can someone tell me more about this "team of rivals"? This is such an interesting concept. I thought most teams are "teams of friends" or even "teams of family members," but this "team of rivals" frankly fascinates me and confuses me like i have never known

I believe it's a modification of the Team of Mavericks concept.

TEAM OF RIVALS. 


I basically take everything I hear on Chris Matthews and repeat it.

I applaud your honesty, but please stop doing that.

If I wanted to watch Chris Matthews' show I'd watch Chris Matthews show hit myself in the face with a brick.

[y2kev]

But, if i may, ask a question: if this "team of rivals" idea was such a solid one, why has no one written a book on it yet!!!!

[Phoenix Dark]

I wonder if Obama has a lot of stock in whoever publishes the book. Why hasn't Hannity looked into this?

[TakingBackSunday]

But, if i may, ask a question: if this "team of rivals" idea was such a solid one, why has no one written a book on it yet!!!!

 

[siamesedreamer]

Hillary is already getting to gut Obama's foriegn policy team. Susan Rice is out as well as Greg Craig.

[Human Snorenado]

Hillary is already getting to gut Obama's foriegn policy team. Susan Rice is out as well as Greg Craig.

1. WTF are you talking about?  Links.
2. Susan Rice will probably be an under-secretary of something somewhere.  Hillary isn't going to get to appoint the whole freaking State Dept, you maroon.
3. Greg Craig isn't out as far as I can tell.  He's getting a lot of scrutiny for his client list, one that includes a William Jefferson Clinton during a certain impeachment trial that didn't work out so well for your side, now did it?
4. Even if Craig WAS on the outs now, he was going to be White House Counsel.  How, pray tell, does that have jack or shit to do with Obama's foreign policy team OR Hillary's gutting his efforts?
5. Stop listening to Rush/Hannity/Orly, you'll feel smarter because you will, in fact, BE smarter.

[Mandark]

Rumor has it that Obama's rescinded job offers to Rice and Craig because the minimum wage hike has made them too expensive.

[Human Snorenado]

Those damned libruls and their crazy stupid wealth redistribution strikes again.

[TakingBackSunday]

Greg Craig...that has to be a joke name 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dick Army

[close]

[Mandark]

Oh, and dollars to donuts says that sd didn't get this from a Rush or Orly figure, but from some right wing site (Red State?  Hot Air?  Pajamas Media?) which got it from The Independent.  Yes, the British one.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hillary-plays-hardball-1031238.html

A question remains about the fate of Susan Rice, the public face of Mr Obama's foreign policy throughout the campaign. She too had been expected to take a prominent position at the State department, but in a conference call with reporters during the campaign she ridiculed Mr Clinton's claims to foreign Policy experience.

She may now end up as Deputy national Security adviser to the president, in the expectation that she would be frozen out by Mrs Clinton at the State Department, a situation that does not augur well for the future.

While having to deal with political enemies fatally undermined Colin Power, "It would be dreadful if only Clinton loyalists worked at State and Obama loyalists at the N.S.C.," the National Security Council a Clinton adviser told the New York Times.

Capitalizing only the second word in "foreign Policy".  Referring to Hillary as "Mr Clinton".  The completely awkward identification of the NSC.  Colin Power.

I'm not sure what my favorite part of that article is.  I know copy editing isn't the same as journalistic integrity, but ffs.

[Himu]

Huh. Not sure what to make of this.