CNN.com- Athiests take aim at Christmas

[Ganhyun]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html

The atheist message was never intended to attack anyone, Barker said.

Hmm. Not attack?

The sign reads(just as it is written on the sign):

At this season of
THE WINTER SOLSTICE
may reason prevail.

There are no gods,
no devils, no angels,
no heaven or hell.

There is only
our natural world.

Religion is but
myth and superstition
that hardens hearts
and enslaves minds.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Is it considered an attack if it's true?

[Eel O'Brian]

"I thought it would be safe," Freedom From Religion Foundation co-founder Annie Laurie Gaylor told CNN. "It's always a shock when your sign is censored or stolen or mutilated. It's not something you get used to."

really, lady?

really?

[Phoenix Dark]

sounds like Malek's time off has been productive

[Ganhyun]

We did?  I didn't get the email

lol, maybe its in your junk folder?

Is it considered an attack if it's true?

While you may believe its true, putting that sign next to a Nativity scene seems kinda crass to me. Doesn't bother me that the sign is made. To me, believe what you want. But don't purposely put it next to Church Nativity scenes celebrating the birth of Jeses to cause conflict.

BTW, the Thread title matches the CNN title.

[Eel O'Brian]

maybe things will escalate and we'll get some good old fashioned christmas violence

[Brehvolution]

I don't get the attack.

[Robo]

While you may believe its true, putting that sign next to a Nativity scene seems kinda crass to me. Doesn't bother me that the sign is made. To me, believe what you want. But don't purposely put it next to Church Nativity scenes celebrating the birth of Jeses to cause conflict.

What the hell is a nativity scene doing in front of the Washington State Legislative Building?

[ManaByte]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

[Phoenix Dark]

While you may believe its true, putting that sign next to a Nativity scene seems kinda crass to me. Doesn't bother me that the sign is made. To me, believe what you want. But don't purposely put it next to Church Nativity scenes celebrating the birth of Jeses to cause conflict.

What the hell is a nativity scene doing in front of the Washington State Legislative Building?

why the hell does it matter?

butthurt atheists

[Howard Alan Treesong]

awesome, War on Christmas enters Phase 2

[Robo]

If we're going to set up memorials to mythological events on state property, we should at least be all-encompassing.  I'm going to erect a statue of Zeus duck-fucking the Queen of Sparta on the lawn of the Legislative Building.  You can put up as many signs as you like.

[Cheebs]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

[ManaByte]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

As soon as the prop 8 protesters found out that it was the large black and hispanic vote that sent it over the top to passing, they began to should racial slurs to black people while they were protesting. Even gay blacks got slammed with racial slurs even when they were part of the protests.

[Phoenix Dark]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

As soon as the prop 8 protesters found out that it was the large black and hispanic vote that sent it over the top to passing, they began to should racial slurs to black people while they were protesting. Even gay blacks got slammed with racial slurs even when they were part of the protests.

Seriously, get the fuck out of here with your anecdotal bullshit. And for your information, blacks didn't send the vote "over the top"

[Cheebs]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

As soon as the prop 8 protesters found out that it was the large black and hispanic vote that sent it over the top to passing, they began to should racial slurs to black people while they were protesting. Even gay blacks got slammed with racial slurs even when they were part of the protests.

"They"? The vast majority of those who voted no on prop 8 were not racists and you know that.

Voting No on Prop 8 was the only tolerant view point a person in California could make, come on.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

As soon as the prop 8 protesters found out that it was the large black and hispanic vote that sent it over the top to passing, they began to should racial slurs to black people while they were protesting. Even gay blacks got slammed with racial slurs even when they were part of the protests.

between this and your "NASA is run by closet creationists" thread you are on a fucking roll

[ManaByte]

This is like the "tolerant" people protesting prop 8...while spewing racial slurs to any black people in the area.

What?

As soon as the prop 8 protesters found out that it was the large black and hispanic vote that sent it over the top to passing, they began to should racial slurs to black people while they were protesting. Even gay blacks got slammed with racial slurs even when they were part of the protests.

Seriously, get the fuck out of here with your anecdotal bullshit. And for your information, blacks didn't send the vote "over the top"

http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1378391.html

Cheryl Weston once attended a wedding ceremony for gay friends, but on Election Day, she voted for a constitutional amendment to declare marriage in California as only between a man and a woman.

"It was called a holy union, but I don't know how holy it was," said Weston, a Sacramento barber.

Weston, 44, is one of an overwhelming number – 70 percent – of black voters in California who voted for Proposition 8 and helped secure its passage, according to exit polling conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International.

African Americans, energized by Barack Obama's presidential bid, boosted their numbers at the polls this year to 10 percent of the state's electorate, up from 6 percent in 2004.

"The Obama people were thrilled to turn out high percentages of African Americans, but (Proposition literally wouldn't have passed without those voters," said Gary Dietrich, president of Citizen Voice, a nonpartisan voter awareness organization.

Latinos were 18 percent of California's voters, and through sheer numbers also contributed to Proposition 8's success. But 53 percent of Latino voters supported the measure, a much lower percentage than black voters. Among white and Asian voters, 49 percent voted for the measure.

Opponents of Proposition 8 appealed to voters to reject the measure as discriminatory and unconstitutional.

But messages that opponents hoped would strike a chord with minority voters – and remind them that interracial marriage once was banned – collided with traditional religious views.

"You listen to the African American pastors, they do not buy that argument," Dietrich said. "They do not believe at all that there is a correlation between civil rights vis-ŕ-vis blacks and rights for gays."

In south Sacramento, a largely minority community, about 62 percent of residents voted for Proposition 8, while almost three-quarters voted for Obama, according to a Bee analysis of election data.

Ida Francis, 77, who worships at Kyle's Temple AME Zion Church in Sacramento, is an Obama supporter who voted for Proposition 8.

She grew up in segregated Arkansas, attending segregated schools and subjected to Jim Crow laws.

She said her church on 42nd Street doesn't tell people how to vote – just to go and exercise that right. She based her decision to vote for Proposition 8 on her Christian upbringing and faith.

"If there are people in our society who wish to live together as a man and man, well, that's their own personal opinion," she said.

However, she said, "I don't believe God intended marriage to be between a man and a man, a woman and a woman.

"We're just trying to hold on to what people see in the Bible," she said. "The family, one man, one woman, children."

She said she does believe it would be discrimination to shun gay people at a restaurant, for example, or refuse to give them a hotel room.

Weston, the barber, said she believes the Constitution protects all citizens, including gays, against discrimination in public life.

But she said that she also, as a Christian, believes that marriage is ordained by God and only between a man and a woman. "Maybe if they don't use that word – marriage," Weston said.

Proposition 8, she said, was something talked about "in all the churches."

"Mormons, Catholics, Evangelicals, all of them," she said. "We all came together, and we had one common belief in this." She said her faith teaches her not to condemn gay people, though, including her married friends.

They might change one day, she said. "God says, 'Judge nothing before its time.' "

Divisions over gay marriage proved a challenge for African American civil rights groups.

The Greater Sacramento Urban League took a stand against Proposition 8, which was the decision of its president, James Shelby, 66.

"I'm a Christian man," he said. "But I'm also president of the Urban League, and the Urban League has always been a civil rights group. That's what this organization was founded on."

He said it wouldn't be a sign of leadership to go out and "wave a flag and see how it blows" to take the pulse of the black community and then match that. "The law says that they have the right," he said. "I think that the courts are ultimately going to be the ones to prevail on this."

Sacramento NAACP President Betty Williams said her chapter was so divided it chose not to take a position on Proposition 8, although the California NAACP opposed it.

"We were split right down the middle," Williams said, with younger people tending to oppose rather than favor it.

Williams declined to state how she voted but said she believes "having the government tell a person whether or not they can marry someone is discrimination. It is."

She said she doesn't believe any black person, though, would "knowingly" discriminate against anyone else. "They did not walk into that voting booth wanting to discriminate," she said.

Williams said younger members argued against Proposition 8, saying it doesn't hurt anyone if gay people marry.

"They also said that if you're taking away one group's rights, 'Who is next?' "

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111212.html

SACRAMENTO, California, November 12, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Amid the rampant homosexualist protests in California, following the victory of Proposition 8, reports are pouring into homosexual blogs of same-sex "marriage" supporters directing their bile against the African-American community, aiming racist and threatening remarks even against blacks who are themselves homosexual.

Exit polls showed that African-Americans supported Proposition 8, the true marriage ballot measure, 70% to 30%.

One reader of Rod 2.0, a leading gay blog by an African-American, reported that when he joined the large homosexual protest outside Westwood's Mormon Temple, protesters called him a "distinguished black fellow" at least twice.

"It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks," wrote the commenter.

"YOU distinguished black fellow, one man shouted at men (sic). If your people want to call me a distinguished effete fellow, I will call you a distinguished black fellow. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple ... me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the distinguished black fellows better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them."

Another African-American reader from Los Angeles reports that he and his boyfriend, also black, were harassed about their race despite their prominently carrying "No on 8" signs.

"Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, 'Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!'" he relates.

When the man pointed out the sign he carried, "One of the older men said it didn't matter because 'most black people hated gays' and he was 'wrong' to think we had compassion,'" he says.  "I guess he never thought we were gay."

Jasmyne Cannick, another popular African-American homosexual blogger, said last week that within three days of Proposition 8's victory she received several calls from homosexual and straight blacks who described being called “distinguished black fellows” and "being accosted in their cars and told that it was because of 'you people gays don’t have equal rights and you better watch your back.'"

Homosexualist leaders have called upon their constituents to cease the racist attacks.

Kathryn Kolbert, President of the liberal People For the American Way Foundation, said that homosexuals should not blame blacks, saying that "responding to that hurt by lashing out at African Americans is deeply wrong and offensive — not to mention destructive to the goal of advancing equality."

Instead, she suggested that the cultural influence of religion is more to blame.  She claims that religious leaders swayed the black community against same-sex "marriage," and convinced them to break away from the "civil rights" banner now hoisted by homosexuals.

In response, Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., told LifeSiteNews.com that "it is absolutely no secret that African Americans support the sanctity of life and marriage," adding that this fact is "something that America needs to know."

Blacks support the true definition of marriage rather than "equal rights" for homosexual unions, King said, because homosexual "marriage" is not a legitimate civil rights issue - contrary to some who say blacks have hypocritically abandoned the fight for equal protection under law.

"Certainly and obviously procreative marriage - between one man and woman - is God's best plan for raising children," said King.  "We as African Americans cannot possibly be missing the boat by understanding that the sanctity of marriage is the best way to be sure that the human race thrives."

Anti-marriage protesters have also attracted media attention for targeting individual supporters of Proposition 8.

Scott Eckern of the California Musical Theatre, a true marriage supporter, resigned from his position as artistic director when homosexual "marriage" advocates began attacking Eckern and boycotting the theater.  Eckhern had privately donated $1000 to the "Yes on 8" campaign.

Blogger Clyde Fitch launched one of many invectives against Eckern, calling him "an enemy of all that is good in America.

"You deserve not only to be fired, you should be viciously attacked using words and nothing but words by the men and women of the American theatre. And then you should go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under. Slime."

Upon his resignation, Eckern apologized for the "hurt feelings" his actions caused, but did not apologize for his commitment to true marriage.

The Bee also reports that Scott Purves, of Purves & Associates, a Davis insurance company, described someone picketing his business earlier this week with a sign reading, "Purves Family Supports Homophobia."

"If this had gone the other way, I can't imagine the backlash if people protested and called the other side names," said Purves. "People would be angry and rightfully so."

Edit: Click links to to see the uncensored text.

[TakingBackSunday]

Religion: 0 Atheism: 1

It sucks for us religious people

[Cheebs]

I really wish Santa's sleigh would do a drive-by on all these anti-Christmas fags.

You cheated

[Phoenix Dark]

You're blaming 10% of the vote on pushing prop 8 over the edge? Seriously, fuck outta here

And btw, providing a link to anecdotal evidence doesn't make it anymore valid

[Cheebs]

You're blaming 10% of the vote on pushing prop 8 over the edge? Seriously, fuck outta here

I think the fact he tried to make it seem like anti-prop 8 people are racist is a bit more alarming.

[Phoenix Dark]

Seriously. Is this the new divide and conquer strategy? Black vs Brown didn't work, time to put the gays against the blacks? I wouldn't hesitate to admit that there is a lot of homophobia in the black community but for the most part they recognize the importance of dignity and civil rights, two things gays are fighting for right now. Someone posted a study earlier which showed overall blacks have been more sympathetic to the gay rights struggle than the media has portrayed.

Blacks are also the most religious minority in the US. I'd imagine some of this is a failed attempt to bring some blacks back into the republican/"moral values" tent. Horrible timing

[Van Cruncheon]

get all religious shit off of government property

[Eric P]

americans love a good persecution complex

[Oblivion]

I don't like the religiotards either, but there's no reason to stir shit.

[Van Cruncheon]

one little poster and WHOA BATSHIT PERSECUTION TIME

jesus, i see more things that offend me stuck to office interior windows at work

how do people survive knowing others disagree?

[Fragamemnon]

bleh, granted the war against christmas is entirely a social conservative construct, but it would be nice if the secular foolery groups wouldn't play along with it.

persecution is the raw fuel for the evangelical reality bubble . if they don't feel like they are being hated and despised by godless americans, then it might cause them to actually try to see reality from the perspective of everyone else in society.

[Van Cruncheon]

true, and it WAS a pretty pointless thing to post given that it was designed to be inflammatory

but MAN if i hafta endure endless religious aphorisms in the season i'm sure the hyper-religious set can endure a clumsy public troll attempt

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Acting butthurt and having a persecution complex is how the religious right gets its way.

[duckman2000]

That sign was just uncalled for. But I guess they had the right to put it up.

The truth is surprisingly often "uncalled for"

[ToxicAdam]

Hahha. .. "the truth". Arrogance of man.

[patrickula]

I'm no fan of Proposition 8 but I don't know how anyone could resist voting for "Proposition ".

[duckman2000]

Considering that their Christmas is just blunt culture squatting on their part, I'm not sure Christians should ever complain about being persecuted.

[Ganhyun]

.

When the phrase "Merry Christmas" becomes un-PC, then yes, there is a war on Christmas. It's not all a persecution complex.

In the words of Walter:

Screw You, its Merry Christmas.

Gotta love Jeff Dunham

[Howard Alan Treesong]

who cares about Christmas anyways, shit holiday

[Eel O'Brian]

christmas is about santa and rudolph and rankin/bass animagic holiday specials, and the one time of the year i wake up every day with a smile on my face

if i so much as miss one drop of eggnog because of a bunch of idiots cramming jesus in and out of it, i will hunt you all down like the dogs you are

i will set fire to the surface of this earth with my fury, melting babyfat off the soft bellies of whiny godfucker and mewling godless heathen alike

your ancestors will whisper about me in hushed voices around nomadic campfires, about the terrible laughter heard as i burned you by the score

[Oblivion]

Jesus wasn't even born in the Winter.

[Eel O'Brian]

that's what i'm saying

[Eel O'Brian]

merry happy!

[Eel O'Brian]

that's another thing

"i don't celebrate christmas because jesus lol and btw i'm a pompous shutin with no friends whom people back away from at parties," or "christmas is jesus and candy canes are blasphemous so why should i be forced to blah blah blah whine whine whine

here's an idea, how about you SHUT YOUR GODDAMNED CRYING DICKHOLE AND ENJOY THE DAYS OFF AND DELICIOUS FREE CAKE AND PUNCH AT HOLIDAY GATHERINGS NO ONE'S FORCING YOU TO WORSHIP JESUS AND/OR SANTA YOU STUPID FUCKS

most jackasses who claim to hate christmas sure as fuck didn't mind it when they were kids squealing with delight tearing open presents on christmas morning

kill you all, oh god just give me a fucking excuse

[Brehvolution]

merry x-mas

I bet MS had a hand in starting that.

[Oblivion]

that's another thing

"i don't celebrate christmas because jesus lol and btw i'm a pompous shutin with no friends whom people back away from at parties," or "christmas is jesus and candy canes are blasphemous so why should i be forced to blah blah blah whine whine whine

here's an idea, how about you SHUT YOUR GODDAMNED CRYING DICKHOLE AND ENJOY THE DAYS OFF AND DELICIOUS FREE CAKE AND PUNCH AT HOLIDAY GATHERINGS NO ONE'S FORCING YOU TO WORSHIP JESUS AND/OR SANTA YOU STUPID FUCKS

most jackasses who claim to hate christmas sure as fuck didn't mind it when they were kids squealing with delight tearing open presents on christmas morning

kill you all, oh god just give me a fucking excuse

Why so mad, eel? We're just trying to be tolerant.  :'(

[huckleberry]

i dodn't celebrate shit 'cet for time off work.  fuck your hoodoo astrology jesus shit.

but putting up a fucking tree inside your house is fucking cool.

[brawndolicious]

Atheists have the right to do that as far as I'm concerned.  Did they probably put up the sign now to piss off christian-pagan-capitalism or whatever beliefs?  Yeah but who actually cares?  It's mostly going to be pastors and bloggers that act all pissy over this and they're at least attention-whores.

[Robo]

merry x-mas

I bet MS had a hand in starting that.

merry (^!)-mas

[Fresh Prince]

Atheists have bigger shit to worry about than Christmas. Dammit let people buy the shit they want, eat like pigs and visit their Church once a year.

[huckleberry]

i dodn't celebrate shit 'cet for time off work.  fuck your hoodoo astrology jesus shit.

but putting up a fucking tree inside your house is fucking cool.

what?  i don't have a christmas tree.

me either  :'(

[Bildi]

I have sweet little Christmas tree.  I put it up a couple of weeks ago to ensure I get into the Christmas spirit nice and early.

Christmas is about holidays and giving and taking presents.  People just need to calm the fuck down and enjoy it.

Christmas
Holidays
Presents

[duckman2000]

I like Christmas, but I don't understand how any American could possibly feel nostalgic about it, given how its presented here. I've lived my whole life not realizing that Santa resides at no less than 4 local car dealerships, and of course likes nothing more than to hang out in the nearest (and next-nearest) mall. I'm pretty sure that on some primal level, American Christmas is what fuels Boyd Rice.

I'll say that Christmas makes more sense now that I have a kid. Although, it's bloody annoying not getting much credit for the cool and awesome presents she gets.

[Beardo]

I like Christmas, but I don't understand how any American could possibly feel nostalgic about it, given how its presented here. I've lived my whole life not realizing that Santa resides at no less than 4 local car dealerships, and of course likes nothing more than to hang out in the nearest (and next-nearest) mall. I'm pretty sure that on some primal level, American Christmas is what fuels Boyd Rice.

I'll say that Christmas makes more sense now that I have a kid. Although, it's bloody annoying not getting much credit for the cool and awesome presents she gets.

My parents only had santa put candy canes and small tuff (less than $5 stuff) in stockings. All the real gifts were from my parents.

[Brehvolution]

merry x-mas

I bet MS had a hand in starting that.

merry (^!)-mas

[Phoenix Dark]

Jeremiah 10:1-5
10:1  Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

10:2  Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3  For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

10:5  They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Ban the bible, save Christmas

[Brehvolution]

What religious significance does Santa have?   

[Cheebs]

I like Christmas, but I don't understand how any American could possibly feel nostalgic about it, given how its presented here. I've lived my whole life not realizing that Santa resides at no less than 4 local car dealerships, and of course likes nothing more than to hang out in the nearest (and next-nearest) mall. I'm pretty sure that on some primal level, American Christmas is what fuels Boyd Rice.

I'll say that Christmas makes more sense now that I have a kid. Although, it's bloody annoying not getting much credit for the cool and awesome presents she gets.

My parents only had santa put candy canes and small tuff (less than $5 stuff) in stockings. All the real gifts were from my parents.

My parents wouldn't give ANY credit to Santa.

My parents never taught me to believe in Santa. They basically paid no attention to it and I realized it was fake from tv and whatever seeing how no one tried to make me think it was real. Christmas was never that big of a deal growing up, well in a traditional sense. We rarely bought a tree and never once decorated the house and we just celebrated christmas randomly in Dec. on whatever day we ended up feel like doing it on, and it was almost never in the morning. They still do it that way lol.

And I almost always knew what my gifts would be before hand they rarely made much of an effort to keep it secret lol.

[ToxicAdam]

             

[Himu]

serious talk, is Christmas all about religion?

I don't understand why would anyone hate it this much, can't you just enjoy the holiday without believing in the religious interpretations?

you know, gifts... families getting together... etc etc.

seriously

[Himu]

that's another thing

"i don't celebrate christmas because jesus lol and btw i'm a pompous shutin with no friends whom people back away from at parties," or "christmas is jesus and candy canes are blasphemous so why should i be forced to blah blah blah whine whine whine

here's an idea, how about you SHUT YOUR GODDAMNED CRYING DICKHOLE AND ENJOY THE DAYS OFF AND DELICIOUS FREE CAKE AND PUNCH AT HOLIDAY GATHERINGS NO ONE'S FORCING YOU TO WORSHIP JESUS AND/OR SANTA YOU STUPID FUCKS

most jackasses who claim to hate christmas sure as fuck didn't mind it when they were kids squealing with delight tearing open presents on christmas morning

kill you all, oh god just give me a fucking excuse

omg

why are you so mad, Eel?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

that's another thing

"i don't celebrate christmas because jesus lol and btw i'm a pompous shutin with no friends whom people back away from at parties," or "christmas is jesus and candy canes are blasphemous so why should i be forced to blah blah blah whine whine whine

here's an idea, how about you SHUT YOUR GODDAMNED CRYING DICKHOLE AND ENJOY THE DAYS OFF AND DELICIOUS FREE CAKE AND PUNCH AT HOLIDAY GATHERINGS NO ONE'S FORCING YOU TO WORSHIP JESUS AND/OR SANTA YOU STUPID FUCKS

most jackasses who claim to hate christmas sure as fuck didn't mind it when they were kids squealing with delight tearing open presents on christmas morning

kill you all, oh god just give me a fucking excuse

To be honest though, most of the tard-cool "Too cool for Christmas" set aren't liked by anyone and don't get invited to parties so the gatherings, cake, and punch does not apply to them.

[Eel O'Brian]

omg

why are you so mad, Eel?

i just want some hassle-free figgy pudding and shit, is all