My Electronic Media Class -or- My Rising Blood Pressure

[Raban]

First, the primer. I'm taking a class called Electronic Media where we explore film and photography and the basic principles of both. When I say basic I mean really basic; one semester on film, the other on photography, the academic part of this class is relatively low-fat. The first semester, now coming to end, was about film. Upon studying some things I already knew well, like certain terms in film making and such, we got to watch films that were considered 'legendary'. The films we watched were The Wizard of Oz, Citizen Kane and Casablanca. Before we begun to watch any of them I had a feeling that all of them wouldn't go down smoothly since I have a kind of bias against older movies. However, Citizen Kane proved to be an absolutely astounding film. The other two films, however, lead me to my making this thread.

What in the name of all that is right in this world do people find entertaining about either The Wizard of Oz or Casablanca? There are countless other overrated films from history as well, but those two seem to grab a metric ton of attention. They're both oft-quoted, oft-listed films, and after seeing both, I'm thoroughly disgusted with most film critics as a whole, more so than I had been before.

The Wizard of Oz, be it judged for its time or now, is complete trash. The sets are horrid, the acting is wooden, the plot is boring and the presentation holds the excitement of watching a tree grow. The music is equally miserable, but I feel my opinion will start to be stepping on toes at that point, since my musical tastes are strange and I have acknowledged this. Regardless, what really steamed me was when my teacher decided that The Wizard of Oz had the best plot presentation of any movie, ever. With that kind of finality as well. Every movie in the history of film, according to this teacher, does not hold a candle to The Wizard of Oz's storytelling. Let's move on to Casablanca before I smash my head into my keyboard.

Now with Casablanca, I may have less fuel for the fire I'm trying to stir up. There could be something I'm missing about this movie, but the acting is complete and total ass and the writing (something this movie is specifically loved for) is quite possibly the dumbest shit I've ever had the misfortune of hearing. I believe the line "Here's looking at you kid" is used at least 50 times. If that's good writing, then where's the praise for movies with similar writing techniques? Like The Transporter 3, for example.

Now you'll have to excuse my strong opinions for these two films while I kindly ask; will somebody point out what in the hell is so great about these two movies? Or am I late to realize that two of the most critically acclaimed films are simply overrated?

[MrAngryFace]

Im shocked your class isnt watching Princess Bride

[Raban]

Im shocked your class isnt watching Princess Bride

Now THAT'S a classic.

[Fresh Prince]

I think the point is to show the prime examples of different genres. Some of which you don't 'get'.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

You have worse taste than me.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Only feggits take film classes. What a homo.

[Raban]

I think the point is to show the prime examples of different genres. Some of which you don't 'get'.

I assure you this is not the case. The syllabus stated we were watching those films to understand why they were critically acclaimed. The teacher even opened the class with mentioning that all three films are on the AFI's Top 100 Films list both in '97 and '07.

Only distinguished effete fellows take film classes. What a homo.

High-school film class? I took it for an easy A and an introduction to Photoshop, not actual education. I don't think I'll ever be a filmmaker nor a photographer. Not professionally anyways.

[BlackMage]

your avatar is similar to my reaction to your thread.

[Raban]

your avatar is similar to my reaction to your thread.

I wonder what part you enjoyed.

So nobody's going to explain what they find so great about either Casablanca or Oz? Really? Just going to write it off as Damn dem yung'uns dey don' know nuffin' 'bout films dees days whawith de SEE GEE EYES enda PRIV'LEJ uv movie watch'un!

[BlackMage]

your avatar is similar to my reaction to your thread.

I wonder what part you enjoyed.

your despair

[Raban]

your avatar is similar to my reaction to your thread.

I wonder what part you enjoyed.

your despair

Delightful.

I get to thinking the people who refuse to explain anything so highly regarded is that they don't know WHY it's so highly regarded in the first place. There's no tangible difference in what I saw in Casablanca that anybody else saw. Jadedness be damned, I'm not going to shrug off a reasonable explanation of Casablanca's quality, I just don't understand it without somebody actually telling me why the praise is so deserved. If I can't even squeeze that out of EB's posters, then I give up.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm not sure on casablanca, myself. i think it kinda defined "cool" for a decade or three. certainly the best advertisement for smoking, for sure!

[Raban]

i'm not sure on casablanca, myself. i think it kinda defined "cool" for a decade or three. certainly the best advertisement for smoking, for sure!

I can see that. Still doesn't speak for the technical quality of the film, but Rick sure came off as a bad ass.

[Phoenix Dark]

The Wizard of Oz, be it judged for its time or now, is complete trash. The sets are horrid, the acting is wooden, the plot is boring and the presentation holds the excitement of watching a tree grow. The music is equally miserable, but I feel my opinion will start to be stepping on toes at that point, since my musical tastes are strange and I have acknowledged this.

What the fuck?

[MrAngryFace]

I never really liked The Wizard of Oz, but Return to Oz was kinda fucked up weird so I loved it

[Raban]

The Wizard of Oz, be it judged for its time or now, is complete trash. The sets are horrid, the acting is wooden, the plot is boring and the presentation holds the excitement of watching a tree grow. The music is equally miserable, but I feel my opinion will start to be stepping on toes at that point, since my musical tastes are strange and I have acknowledged this.

What the fuck?

I suppose I did go a bit far on the choice of words there, yes. But there's not a second of that film that's even remotely enjoyable to me. What is it exactly that I'm so oblivious to?

[Van Cruncheon]

return to oz >>> wizard of oz

wizard of oz is dated crap, fo' sho'

although the creepy monkeys are still awesome

[MrAngryFace]

Return to Oz had the creepy guys with rollerblade hands and the moose couch flying thing and the awesome robot

[Phoenix Dark]

The Wiz>Unforgiven

leper raban and prole

[lennedsay]

I fucking love Casablanca. Then again, I'm a woman with raging emotion-driven hormones.

For me, it isn't the writing at all. The most dramatic scenes have no dialogue at all. Just the storyline in general.

A sigh is just a sigh.

[MrAngryFace]

The Wiz>Unforgiven

leper raban and prole

Do I need to ban you PD? Just for a day maybe?

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm not sure on casablanca, myself. i think it kinda defined "cool" for a decade or three. certainly the best advertisement for smoking, for sure!

I can see that. Still doesn't speak for the technical quality of the film, but Rick sure came off as a bad ass.

to be honest, many folks -- and critics -- have a hard time separating watershed cinema like casablanca and the wizard of oz from actual timeless cinema, like citizen kane. star wars anh is full of shit acting and features a shit script, but it always makes top 10 lists, too. in the end, why fret about it? as long as you can articulate your praise or complaints, it's all good.

[Raban]

Return to Oz had the creepy guys with rollerblade hands and the moose couch flying thing and the awesome robot

  What the hell?

The Wiz>Unforgiven

leper raban and prole

Great, it's so helpful that your sole explanation for The Wizard of Oz's greatness is that it's great. Thanks for shedding that awesome and sobering light.

I fucking love Casablanca. Then again, I'm a woman with raging emotion-driven hormones.

For me, it isn't the writing at all. The most dramatic scenes have no dialogue at all. Just the storyline in general.

A sigh is just a sigh.

What scenes specifically? Any time the movie got dramatic I just rolled my eyes. When Isla pulls the gun my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

[MrAngryFace]

Return to Oz had the creepy guys with rollerblade hands and the moose couch flying thing and the awesome robot

  What the hell?

The Wiz>Unforgiven

leper raban and prole

Great, it's so helpful that your sole explanation for The Wizard of Oz's greatness is that it's great. Thanks for shedding that awesome and sobering light.

I fucking love Casablanca. Then again, I'm a woman with raging emotion-driven hormones.

For me, it isn't the writing at all. The most dramatic scenes have no dialogue at all. Just the storyline in general.

A sigh is just a sigh.

What scenes specifically? Any time the movie got dramatic I just rolled my eyes. When Isla pulls the gun my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

You totally need to see Return to Oz, its fuckin WEIRD

[Raban]

i'm not sure on casablanca, myself. i think it kinda defined "cool" for a decade or three. certainly the best advertisement for smoking, for sure!

I can see that. Still doesn't speak for the technical quality of the film, but Rick sure came off as a bad ass.

to be honest, many folks -- and critics -- have a hard time separating watershed cinema like casablanca and the wizard of oz from actual timeless cinema, like citizen kane. star wars anh is full of shit acting and features a shit script, but it always makes top 10 lists, too. in the end, why fret about it? as long as you can articulate your praise or complaints, it's all good.

Words cannot express my love.

[Van Cruncheon]

casablanca also suffers a sort of cultural overexposure -- its lines, scenes, and characterizations have saturated media for decades, in homage and satire, and have defined a whole host of what you now consider cliches. 30 years from now kids will watch the matrix and roll their eyes at bullet time and black leather jumpsuits, but it won't stop the matrix from being an important piece of watershed action cinema.

[MrAngryFace]

There's other kinda fucked up scenes for a kids movie.

[Raban]

There's other kinda fucked up scenes for a kids movie.

Oh my Christ. That was awesome.

Holy shit Necro from SF3 is in that movie.

EDIT: Christ watching that second clip was like a bad trip.

[MrAngryFace]

haha, its a weird movie, it was even weirder seeing it as a kid. I ended up finding a DVD copy a while back, totally worth it

[recursivelyenumerable]

it starts in black and white and turns color when she lands in Oz, that was a cool idea.

are you gonna watch Metropolis?   

[Raban]

it starts in black and white and turns color when she lands in Oz, that was a cool idea.

I didn't think so. The way the set pieces and costumes were colored so brightly and saturated for no particular reason other than to be a bright and saturated color (best example is the horse that changes color from shot to shot) had the same effect that George Lucas' whoring of CGI in the Star Wars prequels had. Taking an otherwise wonderful novelty and turning it into boring and overused tripe. The idea of going from a dull and subdued world into a majestic and beautiful one is a great concept, however.

it starts in black and white and turns color when she lands in Oz, that was a cool idea.

are you gonna watch Metropolis?  

I haven't ever heard of it. And Casablanca is the last film we're watching in that class, semester's almost out.

[recursivelyenumerable]

too bad, I wish they'd subject you to a bunch of classic silent films so you could bitch about the acting in them

[Mandark]

Citizen Kane is truly timeless while Casablanca's merely watershed?

Fuck that noise.

Citizen Kane would be the absolute quintessence of a movie whose spot in the canon vastly exceeds its current watchability if it weren't for Birth Of A Nation.

[recursivelyenumerable]

30 years from now kids will watch the matrix and roll their eyes at bullet time and black leather jumpsuits, but it won't stop the matrix from being an important piece of watershed action cinema.

if by "30 years from now" you mean "now".

[Phoenix Dark]

Why isn't Oz "timeless", out of curiosity

[Mandark]

Wizard of Oz I never got into as a kid but appreciated it a bit more later.

I think that and the Matrix I last watched more than five years ago, meaning my opinions on them have effectively expired.

[brawndolicious]

WoO was one of those films that was REALLY fascinating to children (especially since it was in the early days of film).  The low production values simply don't matter to kids.  My cousin was actually obsessed with the film when she was little so I guess that kids still don't care.  I'm guessing that the teacher wanted you to see why this movie became so important to a lot of peoples' childhoods.  The actual story isn't that bad for a fairy tale, but of course there was a different standard for movies 70 years ago as far as acting and props were concerned.

[Phoenix Dark]

Low production values? They were pretty damn good for their time.

[brawndolicious]

Low production values? They were pretty damn good for their time.

He didn't watch it 70 years ago.

[Phoenix Dark]

I understand that obviously. Just don't get the point in watching older films and taking points away for dated effects that were once revolutionary. King Kong may look like shit today but I can watch it and appreciate it from a historical perspective.

but then again I can look at Star Wars and think hm, looks kinda shitty compared to stuff that came out earlier like 2001.

[brawndolicious]

real-world resource limitations don't matter to kids, they have low standards.  decent music and a plot they can understand and they'll scream at their parents to let them watch it.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I tend to dig the orchestral scoring in these old musicals.  It's usually pretty rich if you can look past the cloying bits (mickey-mousing and so on).

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Casablanca isn't even my favorite Bogart film, but there's a lot to like about it, and aspects that have held up pretty well.

You've got a great cast, fun supporting performances (Claude Rains and Peter Lorre specifically), a snappy script, a fucking-holy-shit-hawtness Ingrid Bergman (seriously, she be fine), and Bogart being cool as hell.  For two consecutive Halloweens I was the cutest little Bogart you saw, it was an easy costume, a trenchcoat and fedora, but even my young self knew I could only be a pale imatation of the towering cool of Humphrey Bogart.  In Casablanca, he gives off a lot of good reasons why he became one of the best remembered and beloved stars of his era years after he was already dead in the ground.

He's made better films, films I like him in better.  For a lot of people, and this includes me I guess.  Casablanca was the gateway drug into a world of classic cinema.  And for that it will always be looked upon fondly by me.  It might not be perfect, but as cinematic icons go, there's certainly worse then Casablanca.

[Mandark]

I understand that obviously. Just don't get the point in watching older films and taking points away for dated effects that were once revolutionary. King Kong may look like shit today but I can watch it and appreciate it from a historical perspective.

but then again I can look at Star Wars and think hm, looks kinda shitty compared to stuff that came out earlier like 2001.

The flipside is why give bonus points based on how it compares to contemporary films?  It's not fun being told that you have to pretend to be a filmgoer in the 30's and imagine how you would react to a movie if you had a completely different frame of reference.

That's a lot of work for watching what is still a movie about a giant monkey wrecking shit, especially if you're a kid.

I love me some old movies, but I understand that anyone who watches them is going to need to embrace, or at least accept, the technical limitations and the outdated artistic conventions.  That means being okay with black-and-white or completely saturated color, static cameras, and pre-method acting.

If someone can't get past those things, I'll think they're missing out.  But the situation won't be improved by you or me or anyone else badgering them about the Cinematic Corollary To Etiolate's Time-Traveling Ethical Relativism Discount Rate.



I will say that calling the acting in Casablanca objectively bad (with the lone exception of the one-line French colonial policeman with the inexplicable American accent) is fairly lolzy, though.

[recursivelyenumerable]

"It's not deliberately camp. I made the film in a 1930s style. It's based on a Saturday matinee serial from the 1930s, so the acting style is very 30s, very theatrical, very old-fashioned. Method acting came in in the 1950s and is very predominant today. I prefer to use the old style. People take it different ways, depending on their sophistication."

Lucas vindicated by this thread!

[Mandark]

Lucas vindicated by this thread!

That misrepresentation of my words is the worst thing anyone has ever done in the English language and I demand an immediate retraction and apology.

[Raban]

too bad, I wish they'd subject you to a bunch of classic silent films so you could bitch about the acting in them

I would actually enjoy seeing a silent film. Thanks for flinging your assumptions all over the place though, anyway.

[recursivelyenumerable]

But you haven't heard of Metropolis?

[Raban]

But you haven't heard of Metropolis?

I know of the director, Fritz Lang, and I've heard the title tossed around my head, but I know nothing of the film.