Author Topic: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.  (Read 15624 times)

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Fragamemnon

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2008, 03:48:32 PM »
aaaand like i said -- trollishly -- in the qt3 thread, they're ignoring the obvious pink elephant in the room: that nobody trusts videogame reviewers, given the gross inconsistency of their standards.

I brought this up on the gaf thread about this too. It has been impossible for years to get good reviews of wargames or flight/naval sims , and now even RTS , RPG, and mainstream turn-based strategy  (niche TBS has been bad for a long time) reviews are going right into the dumpster. I don't even know what audience they are trying to review the game for, nor does it ever appear that they've spent enough time to cogently evaluate-or hell, sometimes even identify-the main features of the product.

I remember reading the  (few) reviews for Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, EU3: In Nomine, and Birth of America 2 earlier this year. It was a nightmare, no one bothered to step back and review the games for the kind of people that would actually be interested in playing them.
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2008, 08:00:31 PM »
I have to admit that their shit viewpoints about Dynasty Warriors made me discredit a lot of reviewers.  Its so blatantly obvious about what games they actually played vs. what games they dicked around with in the Free Mode for 15 minutes for some screen and video grabs and called it a day.  Like I said, if a reviewer hates the genre, hand it off to someone else or just don't review it.  That or suck it up and play it.  People will tend to notice a shitty review far more than if the game were never reviewed in the first place.

GTA4 got those scores because its all about the hits.  Either give GTA4 a 9.5+ or face piles of hate mail.  Only it turned out GTA4 was an 8 game at best and now a lot of the reviewers are just as fucked now.  I liked Gerstmann's reviews because often times they withstood the test of time (most important).  Twilight Princess really was an 8.8 game and not the 9.5+ that reviewers creamed their panties over.  Not a shock, after reading that link, Gerstmann had some of the best viewpoints there.

Of course, this is just all my out of the ass assumptions here but reviewers need to restore credibility by actually reviewing instead of pimping their personalities out on a podcast.  It's fine if you can pimp your personality and review games well but if you can't do both, you should focus on the latter.
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2008, 09:05:36 PM »
aaaand like i said -- trollishly -- in the qt3 thread, they're ignoring the obvious pink elephant in the room: that nobody trusts videogame reviewers, given the gross inconsistency of their standards.

I brought this up on the gaf thread about this too. It has been impossible for years to get good reviews of wargames or flight/naval sims , and now even RTS , RPG, and mainstream turn-based strategy  (niche TBS has been bad for a long time) reviews are going right into the dumpster. I don't even know what audience they are trying to review the game for, nor does it ever appear that they've spent enough time to cogently evaluate-or hell, sometimes even identify-the main features of the product.

I remember reading the  (few) reviews for Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, EU3: In Nomine, and Birth of America 2 earlier this year. It was a nightmare, no one bothered to step back and review the games for the kind of people that would actually be interested in playing them.

Or witness IGN's now-legendary Soccer Club Manager review. It's like watching Spellbound and complaining there was no CG.
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dammitmattt

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2008, 12:07:29 AM »
aaaand like i said -- trollishly -- in the qt3 thread, they're ignoring the obvious pink elephant in the room: that nobody trusts videogame reviewers, given the gross inconsistency of their standards. oh, maybe we kinda sorta trust the regular byline, but we as readers inevitably turn to suspicions of bias and politics because we can't fathom why else the greater body of writers are so fucking AWFUL at reviewing, well, everything. it's not even about scoring; it's about not being able to articulate WHY they love gta4 despite the glaring flaws, and why they can't meaningfully discuss dynasty warriors despite the game being very mechanically sound to a LOT of gamers. why should i listen to anyone who can't get the basics right?

You're giving way too much credit to the typical, mildly informed gamer.  My real-life friends who play games are mostly intelligent, talented people who really do enjoy the hobby, but don't spend nearly as much time reading about them and discussing them as most of us here would.  And you know what?  They all pretty much only read IGN and trust their reviews.  They don't know or care who's writing the reviews.  I'm not even sure they read the text.  But they sure as hell look at the scores.

The average person doesn't want a detailed, heavily-researched critique that you and I might enjoy (though I doubt it).  We're an EXTREMELY small subset of the industry that likely couldn't sustain any publication or website where people actually get paid to do what you want them to do.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2008, 12:22:08 AM »
very, very true. :'(
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EmCeeGrammar

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2008, 01:07:19 AM »
This is all moot. I can't think of a single person irl that seeks out reviews/grades for any form of media, even my gamer co-workers.  People buy what interests them, stick with what they like and word of mouth does the rest.  Preferably, games coverage would just talk about everything except an arbitrary opinion tacked on to the final product.  Ive encountered many games with shitty reviews whereas I found a facet of the game that clicked with me.  The opposite holds true as well.  So now I'm going to rent what looks interesting and decide whether or not I could see myself sticking with it.  Its up to clever marketing and consistent delivery of whatever appeals to the intended audience to carry a franchise.

Edge rocks though.  They have the occassional misstep but theyre good at explaining whether a game succeeds on its own merits.
I wish they would forgo scores again.
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Himu

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2008, 02:07:42 AM »
aaaand like i said -- trollishly -- in the qt3 thread, they're ignoring the obvious pink elephant in the room: that nobody trusts videogame reviewers, given the gross inconsistency of their standards. oh, maybe we kinda sorta trust the regular byline, but we as readers inevitably turn to suspicions of bias and politics because we can't fathom why else the greater body of writers are so fucking AWFUL at reviewing, well, everything. it's not even about scoring; it's about not being able to articulate WHY they love gta4 despite the glaring flaws, and why they can't meaningfully discuss dynasty warriors despite the game being very mechanically sound to a LOT of gamers. why should i listen to anyone who can't get the basics right?

You're giving way too much credit to the typical, mildly informed gamer.  My real-life friends who play games are mostly intelligent, talented people who really do enjoy the hobby, but don't spend nearly as much time reading about them and discussing them as most of us here would.  And you know what?  They all pretty much only read IGN and trust their reviews.  They don't know or care who's writing the reviews.  I'm not even sure they read the text.  But they sure as hell look at the scores.

The average person doesn't want a detailed, heavily-researched critique that you and I might enjoy (though I doubt it).  We're an EXTREMELY small subset of the industry that likely couldn't sustain any publication or website where people actually get paid to do what you want them to do.

that's a fucking good point. But still doesn't excuse some of the awful reviews they've pulled out before. Fight and Heal never forget, and that's just off the top of my head. The problem here is that these game reviewers are having a big symposium about various issues related to the trade, without questioning their own reviews and their own peers. If they want to be taken seriously, I think they should flat out admit first hand that the actual level of critique in the medium is just flat out bad. I just want them to bring up the inconsistencies in their reviews; Ultimate Ghouls and Ghosts is slammed for being too hard, Mega Man 9 is seen a ray of sunshine; Lost Odyssey and Mass Effect have really weird technical issues, The Last Remnant is slammed by the press, mostly for the same reasons as Mass Effect and LO, when the gaming community thinks it's pretty good; Blue Dragon is -- from my memory -- treated like a rabid dog ready to kill for being too easy, too kiddy when Poke'mon is one of the best reviewed game series am I correct? Dynasty Warriors are said to be too same-y, too repetitive, too many games ;etc on top of being released annually while the Tom Clancy's, the Call of Duty's, the Madden's get a free pass. There's very little reason for a subset of people to trust these reviewers and they are not doing their jobs. Yes, we are a small subset of people, but readers nonetheless and the writers should cater to all readership, I think.

I admire their willingness to talk these things out and discuss them, but in some areas of the field it seems like they're tip-toeing around one big area that -- and this just me personally -- feel is important in this whole order of business. If they would address the things I described above I say this would be pretty damn interesting and good for the industry and faithful.

That said, I look forward to seeing how this thing grows. Who knows what we'll see regarding the next subject. But in the end, the whole symposium feels pointless, as novel an idea as it seems.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 02:33:30 AM by Himuro »
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #127 on: December 19, 2008, 02:30:27 AM »
They don't give a shit about any of that.  What they care about is generating enough buzz so someone else (Microsoft, EA, etc.) can scoop them up down the road.  Which is why many are all about the status quo but makes sure that their personality quirks are in every review, every forum post, and every podcast.
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Himu

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #128 on: December 19, 2008, 02:38:23 AM »
I swear I read an awful review in EGM once circa 2003 where the reviewer kept on and on about the japanese rpg genre and even admitted not liking the genre, but still reviewed a perfectly good game, only to shun it. I forgot the title and I'm too lazy to go through old EGM's but maybe someone probably knows what I'm referring to.

Wait, didn't the guy compare the entire game to Final Fantasy Tactics and then, in the end, give it a bad score? It was basically,"This game isn't FFT lol 6.8"

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duckman2000

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #129 on: December 19, 2008, 02:43:20 AM »
I swear I read an awful review in EGM once circa 2003 where the reviewer kept on and on about the japanese rpg genre and even admitted not liking the genre, but still reviewed a perfectly good game, only to shun it. I forgot the title and I'm too lazy to go through old EGM's but maybe someone probably knows what I'm referring to.

I'm not convinced there is such thing as a "good game" in that genre.

Himu

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #130 on: December 19, 2008, 02:44:49 AM »
But then you're stupid, so it all evens out.
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duckman2000

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #131 on: December 19, 2008, 02:48:11 AM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

Himu

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #132 on: December 19, 2008, 03:01:27 AM »
There is no bad genre. Only ignorant fuck wits think otherwise. There's something good in every genre. You just lack the taste to find it. Go back and play Uncharted.
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dammitmattt

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #133 on: December 19, 2008, 03:09:16 AM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

I've only been here a few weeks and some of your shit is already getting tired.

demi

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #134 on: December 19, 2008, 03:24:12 AM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

I've only been here a few weeks and some of your shit is already getting tired.

I'd be moody too if I single handedly ruined Free Radical
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duckman2000

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #135 on: December 19, 2008, 03:36:52 AM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

I've only been here a few weeks and some of your shit is already getting tired.

Just put me on ignore and go back to nerding it out with your bullet lists and Nielsen links out.

tiesto

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #136 on: December 19, 2008, 09:52:55 AM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

Strong words for someone who hasn't played any RPG other than 5 minutes of Lost Odyssey.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: SERIOUS GAMES JOURNALIST NETWORK OF PRETENSION Debate is Live.
« Reply #137 on: December 19, 2008, 12:53:15 PM »
Hey man, I'm sure the genre is fuck awesome if you like crap. I prefer good games.

Strong words for someone who hasn't played any RPG other than 5 minutes of Lost Odyssey.

At this point, I just kind of have a mental picture of duckman that consists of shit spewing out of his mouth whenever he so much as cracks his lips open.
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