Okay, I actually watched TDK this time, and. . .

[TVC15]

I didn't even like it as much as BB. I actually still have to watch the ending. It felt like the movie should be almost over and there was still more than a half hour left. Begins was also too long, but it somehow felt worse here.

Ledger's performance was as overrated as expected. It was decent, hut nowhere approaching great. In a direct comparison, I don't see this performance as in any way better than Cillian Murphy in Begins.

Minor point, but Bale's Batman voice is distinguished mentally-challenged. I think I understand the logic behind it, but it's still really bad to the point where I wish the idea was cut or replaced.

In some regards, I think the editing in this movie is worse than Begins. The fights and action are definitely better, but there were at least 3 instances of bad cutting in other scenes. Offhand I am recalling the scene with the explosion of the judge's car, but there were other similar weak cuts.

The opening scene was pretty great. I think they should have cut the Falcone shut and ahortened their movie by a half hour, at least. My other big criticism is that I just didn't find the flick as gripping as BB. Also Christian Bale's cheeks look disturbing and the person replacing Katie Holmes looks scary and older than her.

I'd give it 2 or 2.5 vs. Begins 3 stars. This is, honestly, by no measure a great movie.  I'm not sure I'll be sewing that ending anytime soon given the feedback on it. The BD transfer was very nice, though.

tL;dr: I'm legitimately unimpressed to a puzzling degree. While I did not love Begins, I thought it was an entertaining flick. TDK wasn't worth my time, though.

[Himu]

Okay.

[TVC15]

Go pray, foo.

[TakingBackSunday]

I think you went in WANTING to hate it.  But oh well, your opinion.

[Phoenix Dark]

of course he did. it's a reaction to the fanboys

[TakingBackSunday]

That's great, and they're annoying yes, but that shouldn't be a reason to try to hate a movie.

[Madrun Badrun]

I agree with whiteman that this movie needs more sodomy and the the falcone stuff should have been replaced with a child sex slave ring that Batman tries to bust by having Wayne pretend to be a buyer. 

[Himu]

Go pray, foo.

Subhanakalahuma wabihamdika watabarakasmuka wa ta'ala jaduka wa la ilaha ghairuka.

Aoozo billahi menaishetanarajeem. Bismillah irahaman-irahim.

I'm still trying to memorize Al Fatiha, but the trick is learning in English and then in Arabic, and since Al Fatiha is kinda long in both Arabic and English it's a big ordeal for me.

[TVC15]

You go on thinking that. I'm legits this time. I was expecting it, baseline, to be clearly better than begins, and I really haven't been sold on any scale aside from better action sequences and general cinematography.

Also, PD, scouts honor this time. I haven resorted to any sort of hyperbole. Do you at least agree that the movie is way overrated?

Edit: sorry for typos, on mah phone

Also brandnew, why would I try to hate a movie I bought?  I've said many times I wanted to see this in theatres, I just hate crowds. I liked the first movie!  

[Fresh Prince]

Post this on GAF.

[Himu]

I dunno, Keith. I liked it a lot more than BB. I watched it 3 times in theaters. While I'm not a huge fanboy or anything, I thought it was an enjoyable flick.

[TakingBackSunday]

Overrated?  Most assuredly, going by the fanboners over at GAF.  But an enjoyable, awesome summer flick by a country mile, and certainly better than Begins.  I can't even go back to Begins without thinking "fuck I want this to be over so I can watch The Dark Knight."

I have some minor editing complaints, ending complaints, and Bale's voice is meh, but other than that I can't think of anything that bad.  You were unimpressed by Ledger's performance?  I really don't see how.

[Himu]

I think the villians, the dialogue, and the overall plot made it far more interesting than BB. Have you rewatched BB since watching TDK?

[WrikaWrek]

So you lied before? Why?

And i completely disagree with you on Ledger, and reading the words "as overrated as expected" just drives the point home that you went in wanting to dislike it, with a set opinion, and nothing short of miraculous would change anything.

Your opinion ain't worth crap this way. Either you go in with an open mind, or why bother with sharing opinions?

edit: Although let me say, i completely agree with you on the weird editing job of the movie, and on Bale's cheeks. There was something wrong with them when he is in the balcony talking, it's like i'm staring at a skull.

[TVC15]

Also, on the joker--I didn't like it when it was unveiled, nut by the time I saw the movie, I had accepted it. Heath did it very well, bit not like posthumous Oscar well. If he were still alive, this would have just been another role.

[Himu]

Why did you think Heath's acting was overrated? I thought it was great. Not once did I think,"Hey this is the same kid from Brokeback Mountain" or whatever. He nailed that role.

Okay yeah, it wasn't oscar worthy, but he did a great job.

[TVC15]

Wrika-- as overrated as expected means fanbous overrated Begins, and they even had extra ammo to overrated TDK.

And I lies before because trolling is fun

[TakingBackSunday]

It was one of those performances where I watched the movie and I hardly ever saw the Joker as Heath Ledger.  He was completely the character and I always saw him as the Joker, never an actor.  That's why I was so impressed-he nailed the character, accent, inflection, and body action.

[Phoenix Dark]

Oh definitely I agree it's overrated, and I'll admit the film's biggest apologists make me want to hate it. Hell I saw it weeks after its release because I thought it would be meh. The comic book morality at the end is not only stupid, it reaches new levels of stupidity due to Bale's delivery. I understand the Alter Ego has to sound different/more menacing but come on

BB is average to me. I honestly think Superman Begins is a better comic book movie. To me TDK fixed just about every problem I had with BB - mainly the shitty fight choreography, the lack of a proper villain, and the lack of any suspense. The thing that wasn't fixed is the complete indifference I had towards the Batman character. I simply didn't care about him, he wasn't interesting, etc. The Joker and Dent were far more interesting as characters. Bale's Wayne is pretty good but I just don't buy him as Batman; Keaton was far better IMO

[TVC15]

Himu-he's a good actor, don't get me wrong. It just wasn't a performance I'd remember as anythin but a decent comic book movie performance.

I'm heading in a few minutes, so I'm going to stop defending in a bit.

[Himu]

It was one of those performances where I watched the movie and I hardly ever saw the Joker as Heath Ledger.  He was completely the character and I always saw him as the Joker, never an actor.  That's why I was so impressed-he nailed the character, accent, inflection, and body action.

This.

Himu-he's a good actor, don't get me wrong. It just wasn't a performance I'd remember as anythin but a decent comic book movie performance.

I'm heading in a few minutes, so I'm going to stop defending in a bit.

Rewatch BB, and tell us what you think after that.

[TakingBackSunday]

Keaton was being Keaton.  He wasn't a good or bad Batman.  He was just neutral.

At least Bale has a purpose for the voice, as stupid as it fucking sounds.  I think I read something that his voice was amplified in the editing process.

[Phoenix Dark]

I thought Heath was perfect. I doubt there would be Oscar talk if he was alive but it was definitely one of the better Villains I've seen on the screen. That scene where he's leaning out the car window, soaking in the chaos he's created like a dog might lap up air...wow.

[cool breeze]

Just to get it out of the way, TDK is one of my favorite movies and like MGS4 this is a case where I have blind love for it.

Now, I do agree that the editing at times was really bad.  The worst case is easily the fundraiser party where it ends with Batman on a smashed car at street level while the Joker, Harvey, Alfred, and a whole group of rich people were at the party several stories up -- then it just goes to another scene without explaining what happened here.  I guess we're to expect that despite Joker coming there to kill Dent, he instead found interest in watching Batman save some chick with a jello face before strolling on out of there apologizing for the mess he's caused.

[TVC15]

PD, my big problem with Begins is that the final act doesn't live up to the rest of the movie. I guess I won't know of TDK fixed that.

[Crushed]

may you burn in jahannam, infidel

i am prepared to die for the honored bat man, a thousand constipated voices sing his praises

[WrikaWrek]

Superman Returns sucks dick.

[Himu]

Okay, let's say we can settle that TDK is overrated. But worse than BB? I just disagree with that.

That said, I kinda had the same reaction when I first TDK. It didn't have the same oomph when BB ended because BB was, well, the first good Batman movie in well over a decade. So the fact it was actually decent to good made an impact, on me personally. But the more I watch TDK, the more I like it. The second viewing in particular was very memorable.

[TakingBackSunday]

Yeah, I only watched it once after my initial viewing and I completely lost the high I got after the first viewing.  Crappy movie.

Superman that is

[cool breeze]

Keaton was being Keaton.  He wasn't a good or bad Batman.  He was just neutral.

At least Bale has a purpose for the voice, as stupid as it fucking sounds.  I think I read something that his voice was amplified in the editing process.

I think Bale is both the best Batman and Bruce Wayne in TDK (not so much in Begins for Bruce Wayne), but yeah, that voice was bad.  I also heard that the voice was made worse digitally later on.  It's made worse by how out of breath he sounds.  Maybe it's good for the overall world they are trying to portray, but if there is a third film they need to fix that.  

[TakingBackSunday]

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

[Mupepe]

the worst editing in the movie is the joker entering the fundraiser and batman jumping out the window with rachel and landing on the car.  what happened to the joker and his thugs afterwards?  did they get bored and leave?  Or did they get drunk and party?

Anyways, I still think it's a great action movie.  Much like LOTR:ROTK, I don't think I'll ever watch the last half hour anymore.  

Two Face should have been saved for the next film or they should have taken the time to turn it into a 3 hour movie and actually fleshed him out.  It's so rushed and stupid.  The ending is incredibly bad.

[TVC15]

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

I'll also echo something Prole said earlier this week: I think RDJ's Iron Man performance impressed my more than Heath's.

[cool breeze]

And about Bale seeming too thin here, I do kind of agree but not to the point where it bothered me.  If you go watch Begins again it's more jarring if only because it seems like his weight fluctuates while filming.  Some scenes have him incredibly beefy, others have him really thing.

[TakingBackSunday]

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

I'll also echo something Prole said earlier this week: I think RDJ's Iron Man performance impressed my more than Heath's.

Why?  RDJ is great, but he was being himself in it, basically.

[cool breeze]

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

I'll also echo something Prole said earlier this week: I think RDJ's Iron Man performance impressed my more than Heath's.

RDJ was just playing RDJ in Iron Man.  If I would really applaud anyone it would be whoever casted him.

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

I don't know, I think they should kind of keep the idea of being it rougher and all, just tone it down a lot.  Again, he has a Bruce Wayne voice now in TDK, so there are three voices he's balancing and the crazy Batman voice wasn't needed.

[TVC15]

(Sorry on the lock, accident)

I guess he was kinda just being himself, but up until that point, I don't think I expected him to do well in a comic book movie, so it took me by surprise.  Also he was fucking hilarious.

[TakingBackSunday]

RDJ was just playing RDJ in Iron Man.  If I would really applaud anyone it would be whoever casted him.

Spot fucking on.

I don't know, I think they should kind of keep the idea of being it rougher and all, just tone it down a lot.  Again, he has a Bruce Wayne voice now in TDK, so there are three voices he's balancing and the crazy Batman voice wasn't needed.

He really is a great Bruce Wayne, even though he's basically playing the same person in American Pyscho.  But it fucking works.

[TVC15]

They should just slightly digital alter his voice and spout some hoo-hah about there being a modulator on the throat of his costume or on the roof of his mouth or some such.

[Oblivion]

I personally loved Heath Ledger's performance minus the constant tongue clapping.

But what do I know. I have horrible taste in movies.

[Himu]

I loved the way he licked his lips and shit and acted like he was chewing something all the time.

[demi]

I personally loved Heath Ledger's performance minus the constant tongue clapping.

But what do I know. I have horrible taste in movies.

And games

[Oblivion]

I personally loved Heath Ledger's performance minus the constant tongue clapping.

But what do I know. I have horrible taste in movies.

And games

how did i know this post would arise

[Phoenix Dark]

The final act of BB was cool the first time I saw it (omg they burned Rome!) but after multiple views it's just so stupid. Interestingly the use of large amounts of prisoners was a bane for both movies: the "island of drugged felons" and "Hello freight boat passengers, my name is Jigsaw Joker, lets play a little game" scenes were pretty weak to me.

I need to watch BB again because right now I can barely think of things I liked in it. Oh, the training at the beginning was cool

[TakingBackSunday]

I loved the entirety of Begins up until the part where he goes to rescue Rachel.  Then it becomes standard comic book movie affair.

It's like Nolan can't finish movies correctly.

[demi]

I personally loved Heath Ledger's performance minus the constant tongue clapping.

But what do I know. I have horrible taste in movies.

And games

how did i know this post would arise

And girls

[TVC15]

A few misc notes and I am headed out:

1) It should be noted that I am a very vocal proponent of the idea that unless they have a god-damned good reason, the vast, vast majority of movies should be under two hours.  Both nu-Batman movies violate this.  This rule of thumb is a big deal to me, for whatever reason.  It's like, most pop songs should be around 3-4 minutes.  Anything longer and you'd better be like Stairway to Heaven or some shit.

2) One thing that I'm surprised didn't bug me:  for whatever reason it didn't bug me that this was something of a Batman-lite Batman movie.

3) I liked Ledger's tongue play.  The visual design of the Joker still does remind me of like, a crazy polish grandmother trying to force gross-ass kopytka on people.

4) What the fuck was up with Maggie Gyllenhal's head?  Does she have some sort of disease or STD?

and I'm out for a bit

[demi]

nobod cares distinguished mentally-challenged fellow

[Phoenix Dark]

Rented TDK earlier today, gonna watch it now. I'll borrow BB from my parents tomorrow and give it a fair shake

[WrikaWrek]

I just don't understand why he can't just speak lower.

I'll also echo something Prole said earlier this week: I think RDJ's Iron Man performance impressed my more than Heath's.

Now that is just dumb.

He was being himself, there was nowhere where "acting" was required of him, he never had to go outside of his realm.

[fistfulofmetal]

TDK is better than BB in pretty much every way.

But Hellboy 2 is superior to both.

[WrikaWrek]

Lol at the notion of Hellboy 2 being superior.

It's not even better than the 1st, Hellboy felt like it had a purpose, Hellboy 2 felt like some T.V Episode.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

LOL @ Hellboy 2.  That movie was forgettable crap.

The Dark Knight is fucking awesome and I'm baffled at the reasons why people think it sucks, unless the only reason is that it brought in over $500,000,000 which means some of the unwashed masses went to see it, which doesn't jive with your outlook on movies.

It isn't without its flaws.

- Maggie Gyllenhaal was shit.  People thought Katie Holmes was bad but she was much better than Ms. Saggy Tits in TDK.  Maggie barely phoned it in.  While Bale and Ledger gave strong performances, she just phoned it in.  I'm glad they killed her off because for TDK2, I won't have to see her fat face and her saggy tits ever again.

- They ruined the potential of Two Face.  I'm guessing they will try to write him in the next film but it wouldn't make sense.  Eckhart, like Gyllenhaal, put out a mediocre performance.

The ending was a tad cheesy but it had to set up the plot for the sequel.  If you guys complained about its length, then would you really want 5-10 extra minutes fleshing this storyline out?  Probably not.

Iron Man was a good movie and RDJ put out a good performance but it is nowhere near TDK.  Hellboy 2 is disposable garbage that nobody will give half a shit about next year.  Hell, who even cares about it now?  Just a bunch of internet contrarians who basically hate everything that is known outside of their small hipster sets and nerd enclaves on message boards.

[fistfulofmetal]

HB2 stole all of TDK's thunder. A more enjoyable and more interesting movie that made TDK feel so drab. Yawn, car chase, yawn, interrogation scene, yawn yawn yawn.

Troll market
Golden army
Selma Blair
Hellboy
Batman
Bale's Batman voice

[TakingBackSunday]

Oh you're a horrible troll, at least TVC is clever.

[Eel O'Brian]

there's just a lot of plot discrepancies and bullshit dialogue in tdk, and were it any other movie some of the same people defending it would be posting mocking photoshops and irritating text memes about it

and i say this as someone who liked the movie

spoiler (click to show/hide)

80% of it, anyway

[close]

[Mandark]

Ledger's Joker is like Depp's Jack Sparrow or Alan Rickman's Sheriff of Nottingham.  I'm not sure if any of those parts should even be categorized as "acting" but they were easily the best things going in their respective movies.

[bagofeyes]

I didn't like batman's new mask, and the whole ferry thing at the end was the kind of shit I would have expected in a spiderman movie. If I ever watch it again I'm turning off before the last half hour. I liked begins better too.

[Mandark]

Chacun a son gout, but I'm boggled that anyone prefers BB over TDK.

[bagofeyes]

you could have replaced batman with bruce willis in TDK and it would have been diehard 5.0