Israel Pounds Palestinians in Gaza. Over 1000 estimated fatalities.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

"Hot Palestinian Girls" gives some interesting google image results

[Bildi]

Nuke 'em both, except the hot girls.  This is the 21st century, surely we have a bomb for that.

[drozmight]

[Flannel Boy]

Israel wins again.

[drozmight]

Yeah she kinda looks dead inside... and like she just doesn't give a fucking shit anymore.

That's pretty scary.

[TVC15]

The problem with these discussions is that there is definitely an undercurrent of antisemitism, racism or cultural ignorance - even in this very thread.  There's no logical or rational way to say one side is right or wrong.  I've learned that saying Group A is worse than Group B because of these statistics, variables, anecdotes, etc. is just stupid.  Both sides are wrong.

Antisemitism?  Aside from Curseofthegod's first post I don't see anything here that can be said to have antisemitic undertones.  Anti-person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation, definitely, but they are not the same things.

Ignoring a post in the very thread we're discussing, it's totally free from antisemitic undertones!  Oh c'mon.

To say that there's antisemitic or racist undertones to a discussion because of one post that nobody paid attention to is exactly why claims of antisemitism often have the reputation of being reactionary and an easy way to make an argument tricky to win, since to argue that something labeled antisemitic isn't so makes the person objecting look like an antisemite.

[Flannel Boy]

I wish all wars were like WW2.That was a real war for only the manliest of manly men.

SMH
clearly we could use a good war, along with a comprehensive draft, to cull the young generation.

[CurseoftheGods]

I don't consider myself antisemitic, but I am definitely anti-person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation.

Besides, I am probably the most semitic person here.

[TVC15]

I don't consider myself antisemitic, but I am definitely anti-person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation.

Besides, I am probably the most semitic person here.

Yeah, I didn't mean to implicitly label you as antisemitic, but your comment was really the only thing I could find in the thread.  Apologies if I offended you.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

"Hot Palestinian Girls" gives some interesting google image results

Yeah, safe search is forced my Uni's network so all the ones I'm getting are along these line:

(Image removed from quote.)

On the unsafe search, the third picture is a bunch of naked dudes.

[CurseoftheGods]

I don't consider myself antisemitic, but I am definitely anti-person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation.

Besides, I am probably the most semitic person here.

Yeah, I didn't mean to implicitly label you as antisemitic, but your comment was really the only thing I could find in the thread.  Apologies if I offended you.

No offense taken. No worries, dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

Kinda hard for someone to recognize a country that only exists because they were given your land

And likewise it's hard to give it back when your religion tells you it's yours

[drozmight]

The US should spearhead a new crusade to take back the holy land for the Christians.

[The Fake Shemp]

Fuck Israel. Seriously. Most disgusting people on the planet.

Really, TVC.  Are you kidding me? 

My point was that antisemitism, racism and cultural ignorance exists any time people discuss the conflict and this thread is no exception.  By the way, being racist and culturally ignorant is not exclusive to antisemites.  It can exist on the other side.  See ToxicAdam - IN THIS VERY THREAD, NO LESS! - for the other example.  You cannot discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without such an undercurrent existing, regardless if you are not the one distributing such sentiments.  It's just life.  That's why these discussions are usually so stupid when people try to pick sides.  Nobody wins.

Except those hot, hot Israeli female soldiers.

[CurseoftheGods]

Fuck Israel. Seriously. Most disgusting people on the planet.

Really, TVC.  Are you kidding me? 

My point was that antisemitism, racism and cultural ignorance exists any time people discuss the conflict and this thread is no exception.  By the way, being racist and culturally ignorant is not exclusive to antisemites.  It can exist on the other side.  See ToxicAdam - IN THIS VERY THREAD, NO LESS! - for the other example.  You cannot discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without such an undercurrent existing, regardless if you are not the one distributing such sentiments.  It's just life.  That's why these discussions are usually so stupid when people try to pick sides.  Nobody wins.

Except those hot, hot Israeli female soldiers.

Alright. What if my post said:

Fuck Israel. Seriously. They have some of the most disgusting people on the planet.

or

Fuck Israel. Seriously. people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation are the most disgusting people on the planet.

That would have been better, I assume. I do not mean to retcon, but that is what I truly meant. Take that as you will. 

[TVC15]

Fuck Israel. Seriously. Most disgusting people on the planet.

Really, TVC.  Are you kidding me? 

My point was that antisemitism, racism and cultural ignorance exists any time people discuss the conflict and this thread is no exception.  By the way, being racist and culturally ignorant is not exclusive to antisemites.  It can exist on the other side.  See ToxicAdam - IN THIS VERY THREAD, NO LESS! - for the other example.  You cannot discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without such an undercurrent existing, regardless if you are not the one distributing such sentiments.  It's just life.  That's why these discussions are usually so stupid when people try to pick sides.  Nobody wins.

Except those hot, hot Israeli female soldiers.

I pointed out the post, I think I know what it said, and my point still stands: it's the only post in this thread that can be construed as antisemitic or racist.  Cultural ignorance I won't touch, since that's a term that could be defined in a zillion ways. 

I also disagree that it's impossible to talk about the Israeli/Palestinian issue without an undercurrent of antisemitism, but I have a feeling that would be an incredibly boring semantic argument, so I'll let it drop.

On your original post that I responded to, I agree 100% on everything with the exception of that first line.

But let's just drop it.  I don't want to get into a prolonged argument on such a stupid subject.

My primary problems with Israel have nothing to do with its foundation or whether it deserves to exist or not--I simply am not fond of them getting so much US support.  If the US stopped supporting Israel, it would probably do more to reduce terrorism than a dozen middle eastern wars.

[The Fake Shemp]

Why bother changing your original post when it probably most accurately reflected how you truly felt, CurseoftheGods?

The United States' involvement with Israel just fans the flames of Arab dislike of our nation, but removing all financial, military and political support from the nation would not do anything to decrease terrorism.  Islamic fundamentalists hate the United States for a myriad of reasons and abandoning Israel is not a cure-all.

I've got no problem with the Israeli support - the country is a strategic necessity in the region for a good number of reasons.  I just wish our country was more proactive in peace talks and not just blindly supporting Israel with no misgivings.

Strategically, it would be best for Israel to halt all military operations and just let Hamas lob rockets into their borders until they lost their underdog label.  The whole "let's use a nuke to get rid of a bee's nest" strategy isn't really winning hearts and minds.

[TVC15]

I've got no problem with the Israeli support - the country is a strategic necessity in the region for a good number of reasons.  I just wish our country was more proactive in peace talks and not just blindly supporting Israel with no misgivings.

I agree that this would be the best approach, but it's also a bit discouraging that we have been proactive about peace talks several times over the past few decade, and it's always seemed promising at the time, but things have always ended up going to shit anyway.

[The Fake Shemp]

I believe there was a ceasefire in place this time around that was dissolved by Hamas.

I'm a pretty firm believer that there will never be any peace, and the Israelis' overzealous defense of their statehood will just fuel Arabic hatred which is deep rooted and long standing.

[TVC15]

When was the last time there were big formal US-sponsored peace talks?  Was it during the Clinton Administration or am I forgetting some Bush ones?

[The Fake Shemp]

Of any significance?  You probably have to go back to Clinton.  Bush's administration has had some attempts, but they've been forced to be really one-sided in terms of their support since they've relied heavily on Israel to assist in their regional strategy of fucking shit up.

[Mandark]

Willco's right.  It's perfectly possible for someone to weigh in on the issue and even strongly criticize one or both sides in a manner free of bigotry, but it's nigh on impossible to have a multiparty discussion on the net (or meatspace for that matter) without the problem cropping up.  Kind of a Godwin's Law (in the original "probability approaches one" sense) situation.



TVC: When Bush took office he deliberately withdrew the US from an active role in the peace process, because he thought Clinton's highly visible efforts had diluted American prestige, har har har cry.

[huckleberry]

Just saw this posted on another board.  This guy speaks truth but it will only be interpreted by other arab states as proof the Egypt has further slipped into the folds of the person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation/American conspiracy.

[CurseoftheGods]

Why bother changing your original post when it probably most accurately reflected how you truly felt, CurseoftheGods?

I guess I should not. But I just wanted to clarify, my main issues are with Israel's government and people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation, and not Israeli citizens specifically. If that sounds most like it most accurately reflected what I truly felt so be it. 
 

[TVC15]

Willco's right.  It's perfectly possible for someone to weigh in on the issue and even strongly criticize one or both sides in a manner free of bigotry, but it's nigh on impossible to have a multiparty discussion on the net (or meatspace for that matter) without the problem cropping up.  Kind of a Godwin's Law (in the original "probability approaches one" sense) situation.

We're just going to have to disagree.  I'm not going to take the shithead nature of the internet into account, but I do not believe that any discourse on the matter is doomed to fall into racism and antisemitism.

But, of course, there are a BILLION buts in the matter.  Both the Israelies and the Palestinians have not done such a good job in picking leaders that would be interested in a fair discussion.

I'd also like to point out that if a true dumbass shithead like FOC were in here, he'd be saying shit like "OH DA PALESTINIANS ARE THE PROBLEM!  MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST GET RID OF THEM! HYUCK! HYUCK I'M FRUM TEXASS!" as though it were some some situation that in any way involed social security or medicaid.

TVC: When Bush took office he deliberately withdrew the US from an active role in the peace process, because he thought Clinton's highly visible efforts had diluted American prestige, har har har cry.

Do you have a link on this?  I was largely not publicly aware during the beginning of the Bush administration due to hardcore personal reasons.  I hate saying "link plz" but I do not doubt you and I want to be read up.

[Mandark]

I don't think we disagree too much.  Basically any open discussion of an ethnic conflict that doesn't filter the participants is going to attract some flies.  Doesn't mean you can't have better discussions in other venues or make an effort to ignore the idjits.

Do you have a link on this?  I was largely not publicly aware during the beginning of the Bush administration due to hardcore personal reasons.  I hate saying "link plz" but I do not doubt you and I want to be read up.

Some quick links from old NYT articles.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B05E5DC1531F93AA35751C0A9679C8B63

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E2D91E31F934A1575BC0A9679C8B63

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DEFDF1130F932A3575AC0A9679C8B63


From Ron Suskind's The Price of Loyalty:

President Bush echoed this view: "We're gong to correct the imbalances of the previous administration on the Mideast conflict. We're going to tilt it back toward Israel. And we're going to be consistent

"Clinton overreached, and it all fell apart. That's why we're in trouble," Bush said. "If the two sides don't want peace, there's no way we can force them.

Then the President halted. "Anybody here ever met [Ariel] Sharon?

After a moment, Powell sort of raised his hand. Yes, he had.

"I'm not going to go by past reputations when it comes to Sharon," Bush said. "I'm going to take him at face value. We'll work out a relationship based on how things go."

He'd met Sharon briefly, Bush said, when they had flown over Israel in a helicopter on a visit in December 1998. "Just saw him that one time. We flew over the Palestinian camps," Bush said sourly. "Looked real bad down there. I don't see much we can do over there at this point. I think it's time to pull out of that situation."

And that was it, according to O'Neill and several other people in the room. The Arab-Israeli conflict was a mess, and the United States would disengage. The combatants would have to work it out on their own.

Powell said such a move might be hasty. He remarked on the violence in the West Bank and Gaza and on its roots. He stressed that a pullback by the United States would unleash Sharon and the Israeli army. "The consequences of that could be dire," he said, "especially for the Palestinians."

Bush shrugged. "Maybe that's the best way to get things back in balance."

Powell looked startled.

"Sometimes a show of strength by one side can really clarify things," Bush said.

Basically the Bush administration scrapped the Clinton roadmap and pulled back from the peace process (other than Powell strongly criticizing Israeli operations in Gaza that June (July?)).

That continued for four or five years.  In 2005 Karen Hughes, who had been appointed to be America's public relations maven in the middle east (because all we needed was better messaging, and even for that we didn't need someone with any regional expertise), reported back to Bush that everybody in the region thought Palestine was the #1 issue and that the US wasn't helping.

Thanks to her status as a close friend of Bush, the administration started getting more involved.

They made new Palestinian elections a condition for negotiation, because they only wanted to negotiate with parties who had the authority to make a deal.

Only the US didn't count on Hamas winning.  They also only wanted to negotiate with parties who would make certain concessions (like recognizing Israel) right off the bat.

So then the administration turns to proxy forces and violence to solve the problem, stoking a fight between the Palestinian factions.  Which winds up leaving Fatah in charge of the West Bank and Hamas in charge of Gaza (which Israel had unilaterally withdrawn from a couple years back and which isn't nearly as important to Israel or the settler movement as the West Bank).

There was a high profile summit in Annapolis in November 2007, which represented the US finally getting involved in the process again, but it was too little too late.  By then Bush and Olmert were basically lame ducks with low approval ratings, and the administration was (and is) still excluding Hamas, Iran, and Syria from the talks.

So it's basically a big clusterfuck.  There's no deal in place.  There's no framework for a deal.  There's no process that will lead to a framework for a deal.  There isn't even the groundwork that can enable a process which could produce a framework which might end with a deal.

[The Fake Shemp]

I haven't seen W., but I'd be really interested to see how Bush created this know-it-all attitude when it comes to foreign policy.  Or domestic policy.  Or really any policy.

[AdmiralViscen]

Why bother changing your original post when it probably most accurately reflected how you truly felt, CurseoftheGods?

Uh I didn't read his post as a diss on Jews, but on the actions of the Israeli government and military and its staunch defenders


But I guess he said that already

[Tauntaun]

TITTIES COCK PENIS BALLS MUFF!   

[The Fake Shemp]

Why bother changing your original post when it probably most accurately reflected how you truly felt, CurseoftheGods?

Uh I didn't read his post as a diss on Jews, but on the actions of the Israeli government and military and its staunch defenders


But I guess he said that already

There was nothing about his original post that spoke exclusively about the Israeli government, military or state policy.  It was pretty much just antisemitism.

Imagine if I said, "Fuck Palestine.  Seriously.  Most disgusting people on the planet."

I'd bet a million dollars people wouldn't be thinking, "Bravo, Willco, on your wonderful commentary on the perversion of Islam by radicals in an effort to thwart peace and profit!"

[CurseoftheGods]

It's a good thing that you don't have a million dollars.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yes, because the first thing that comes to people's minds when making a blanket statement about a people where I describe them as disgusting is that I'm obviously referring to the government and/or state policy.

Fuck China.  Seriously.  Most disgusting people on the planet.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

By that I mean the poor human rights record of their government and not the people themselves.  Which I will now tell you after the fact, as so I do not get labeled as a racist.  You obviously didn't get my subtle political criticism of the nation itself and not the people!  Duh!

[close]

[The Fake Shemp]

If the original comment was, "Fuck the Israeli government and their draconian policy of retaliation!  They will never have my sympathy as long as they continue to allow illegal settlements to be built uninterrupted and maintain an unfair stranglehold on the Palestinian economy!" ... this wouldn't be an issue.

But his original statement and expansion of said statement afterwards is as bad as any number of, "I'm not a racist, but... [enter totally racist comment here]" comments that people say to avoid getting labeled as a racist.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I don't really get why a lot of places on the net are anti-Israel or why people feel its kosher to say "Fuck Israel and their stupid asses" to paraphrase some of the sentiment I get from this thread and other places...

[The Fake Shemp]

Because it's always been pretty popular to hate Jews.

And especially nowadays, when the nation has very little in the way of visible damage to infrastructure, fatalities, etc. in comparison to the massive loss of life that they deal in retaliation, it gives Israel the image of a bully.  And nobody likes a bully.

Especially a Jewish bully!

[CurseoftheGods]

Yes, because the first thing that comes to people's minds when making a blanket statement about a people where I describe them as disgusting is that I'm obviously referring to the government and/or state policy.

I already admitted that I worded my original post incorrectly; I have stated that I felt that it didn't accurately what I truly felt, and I may have inadvertently overgeneralized. I have tried to explain my original post three times in this thread. Stop crying, Willco.

Would you like an apology?

[The Fake Shemp]

It's always easy to amend your comments after the fact, eh?  I really don't care if you're antisemitic.  In fact, I have more respect for openly antisemitic people than those who try to argue semantics, context, etc. in an effort to avoid the label out of some kind of social fear.

Like, straight up, I hate PETA.  I won't hold it back either!

[Mandark]

I haven't seen W., but I'd be really interested to see how Bush created this know-it-all attitude when it comes to foreign policy.  Or domestic policy.  Or really any policy.

I've read a bunch of anecdotes about him being unable to process disagreement or contradiction.  Maybe it's self-righteousness from being born again.  Maybe he fits the description Anne Richards gave his father, "born on third base and thinks he hit a triple."  Maybe it's the [urlhttp://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=10163.msg246855]Dunning-Krueger[/url] effect.  Maybe he's just a jackass.

I always pimp America Unbound because it has a simple insight that explains so much about Bush's foreign policy.

Bush thinks that the US is uniquely, intrinsically moral and good.  He also thinks that everyone else also basically realizes this, so all of America's enemies must be straight up evil.

It's like the Rosetta Stone of the worst presidency ever.  So many things make sense when you realize this is the logic he's using.




PS Yes you bloody well should apologize.  When you make a statement that bad (and it's like Theodore Bilbo bad) then you should emphasize contrition rather than whinge about people's reaction to your statement.

"It wasn't accurate and I changed it so stuff it already" really doesn't project the same sincerity of "Wow, reading that it's really clear what an ugly thing that was to say.  I'm so sorry and I want you to know that was in the heat of the moment and I hope you won't believe that's a reflection on me."

Though I'm the only person here seemingly bugged by siamesedreamer's racism, so maybe I'm just a sensitive Sue.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Bush thinks that the US is uniquely, intrinsically moral and good.  He also thinks that everyone else also basically realizes this, so all of America's enemies must be straight up evil.

Isn't this also the consensus from many evangelical and pentecostal christians in the US?

[CurseoftheGods]

I am sorry that you don't believe me, but I really have told the truth. I honestly don't care if you think I am antisemitic or not, as I really don't have any [social] fear towards getting a racist label on an obscure internet message board. I am a semitic man myself. I only tried explaining the context as to avoid any unnecessary drama.

And I hate PETA too! And people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation and the Israeli government.

[The Fake Shemp]

I will have to pick it up from Borders this weekend.  I'm not so much intrigued as a damn dirty liberal outraged on how he destroyed our world image and made a mess of our foreign affairs, but rather interested on why he chose to do so.  The logic behind his decisions seems to get lost in all the criticism of his Presidency.  Not looking for anything to demonize him, but rather explain him.  Right or wrong.

The book you sent me as my home warming gift was a fun read, by the way.  Just finished it.

[CurseoftheGods]

Oh, and thanks for your input, Mandark -- but Willco already went over the semantics and context issue.

I personally don't think an apology is needed especially since we don't have any Israelis on this board. I am sorry if that makes me look like a racist asshole, but I don't see the point.

[Mandark]

Bush thinks that the US is uniquely, intrinsically moral and good.  He also thinks that everyone else also basically realizes this, so all of America's enemies must be straight up evil.

Isn't this also the consensus from many evangelical and pentecostal christians in the US?

Yeah, a good chunk feel the US is divinely blessed (maybe to fight a war against Islam, maybe more generally), but I'm not talking about an explicit, religious belief.

It's kind of a naive type of patriotism, an understandable one that a lot of people share.  Many, maybe most, Americans think the US is a really good country and even if they kvetch about the government, their complaints run more towards long lines at the DMV rather than unexploded land mines.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance to overcome in realizing just how horrible the US has sometimes acted outside of its own borders, so I can't blame the public too much.

But the guy in charge really should have it figured out a bit better.

I will have to pick it up from Borders this weekend.  I'm not so much intrigued as a damn dirty liberal outraged on how he destroyed our world image and made a mess of our foreign affairs, but rather interested on why he chose to do so.

It'd be a good choice for that.  There's no original reporting and very little emphasis on personalizing the behind-the-scenes intrigue.

But they do a very good job arguing that Bush has a consistent worldview that was in place before 9/11 and explaining how that led to the decisions it did.



CurseoftheGods:  smh

[CurseoftheGods]

Shake it, Sue.

[ToxicAdam]

I hope Hamas and it's miscreants keep retaliating so Isreal can wipe them off the map. Kill every man and assimilate the women and children. Enough is enough.

[huckleberry]

I hope Israel and it's miscreants keep retaliating so Hamas can wipe them off the map. Kill every man and assimilate the women and children. Enough is enough.

 

[TVC15]

I hope Hamas and it's miscreants keep retaliating so Isreal can wipe them off the map. Kill every man and assimilate the women and children. Enough is enough

Curse, this is TA demonstrating how to get things done without being labeled as any sort of bigot.  Passions are passions, but think your words through even a little bit and you can make potentially offensive sentiments completely benign.

[castle007]

I hope Hamas and it's miscreants keep retaliating so Isreal can wipe them off the map. Kill every man and assimilate the women and children. Enough is enough.

you really aren't helping your case 

[AdmiralViscen]

Yes, because the first thing that comes to people's minds when making a blanket statement about a people where I describe them as disgusting is that I'm obviously referring to the government and/or state policy.

Fuck China.  Seriously.  Most disgusting people on the planet.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

By that I mean the poor human rights record of their government and not the people themselves.  Which I will now tell you after the fact, as so I do not get labeled as a racist.  You obviously didn't get my subtle political criticism of the nation itself and not the people!  Duh!

[close]

Uh, Israel is a country. So is China.

"Fuck Israel" is not "Fuck Jews" anymore than posting "Fuck China" in a thread about how their lack of regulation is destroying the environment means "Fuck anyone of Chinese ancestry"

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Well, Israel was created for the purpose of having a Jewish homeland.

[AdmiralViscen]

And it is the government and military of that country that is doing something that could be seen as disgusting right now, not some guy who owns a restaurant in Jersey or something.

[siamesedreamer]

Israel sinks the USS McKinney:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html

The main question I would ask is wtf is a CNN correspondant doing on a boat with supplies intended for a terrorist organization?


Edit: Better link

[AdmiralViscen]

Um is that the wrong link or what? That boat is the Dignity, it wasn't sunk, and Cynthia McKinney was on the boat

[siamesedreamer]

That one went way over your head didn't it? 

[Flannel Boy]

maybe I'm just a sensitive Sue.

There are no maybes about it.

That being said, when people are angry, they need to pause before hitting the post button because they're likely to make broad, knee-jerk statements. This happens a lot with Canadians when discussing US foreign policy.

"Fuck Americans. They need to die."

"I meant the Bush administration; I love Americans!"

[CurseoftheGods]

maybe I'm just a sensitive Sue.

There are no maybes about it.

That being said, when people are angry, they need to pause before hitting the post button because they're likely to make broad, knee-jerk statements. This happens a lot with Canadians when discussing US foreign policy.

"Fuck Americans. They need to die."

"I meant the Bush administration; I love Americans!"

This is true. Kind of why I try to avoid posting in PoliGAF threads. I sometimes find myself posting knee-jerk responses and regretting it later. 

[Mandark]

"Fuck Israel" is not "Fuck Jews" anymore than posting "Fuck China" in a thread about how their lack of regulation is destroying the environment means "Fuck anyone of Chinese ancestry"

Only when you elide the "most disgusting people" bit, which is kind of important.  Even CotG isn't defending his original statement, dode.

As for TA, he's obviously just trolling, trying to get us riled up over his misuse of "it's".

[CajoleJuice]

I can't wait until the Gaza Strip gets fisted.

[AdmiralViscen]

"Fuck Israel" is not "Fuck Jews" anymore than posting "Fuck China" in a thread about how their lack of regulation is destroying the environment means "Fuck anyone of Chinese ancestry"

Only when you elide the "most disgusting people" bit, which is kind of important.  Even CotG isn't defending his original statement, dode.

As for TA, he's obviously just trolling, trying to get us riled up over his misuse of "it's".

I'm not defending the original statement, I'm saying that Willco is wrong when he says that it is impossible that Curse meant what he says he meant by it.

It's not like this topic is about prayer practices at the wailing wall, it's about violence and civilian casualties being committed by a government entity. It's not hard to see that Curse wasn't talking about the Jewish ethnic group in his post. I've never seen Curse make a bigoted statement before, so I don't know why Willco is railing on him and refusing to accept his explanation.

[Madrun Badrun]

I can't wait until the Gaza Strip gets waxed.