Can the Ntards explain something to me???

[cool breeze]

I don't have any objection to the wii and I don't think nintendo is killing gaming, but 2008 was inarguably the worst year for a leading console ever. how could nintendo let this happen, and how could people defend this? 2009 instantly looks better because it's getting a tenchu game.

So you really think this is an awful list of games? Personally, I can't think of 10 exclusives for the PS3 that would compel me to get one.

off the top of my head, I might not be able to name 10 exclusives for either the 360 or PS3 in 2008 that were great, but luckily they don't live or die based on exclusives.  If you're a PS3 or 360 only owner, you can get by with all the multiplatform games AND the exclusives instead of just the exclusives.


 

[y2kev]

I'm interested in Tenchu 4, MadWorld, Deadly Creatures, HOTD, and maybe some other stuff. I'm not buying WiiWare games anymore until there is a storage solution.

There were probably 10 great games just on PSN or XBLA last year...

[ToxicAdam]

I wish Fisher Price made woodworking tools. You never know how many times I am planing a board and wished my equipment had the soft rounded plastic edges and bright primary colors that my first tool set had.

Entertaining guests on deck furniture made from Step 2 would be pretty awesome too.

[Oblivion]

This is exactly what I don't get. I'm with pretty much everyone here that doesn't care about stuff like Wii Fit and Wii Music, yet I'd be hard pressed to deny that Nintendo has at the very least still continued to create sequels to their established franchises. Their first party line up (non games excluded) for the first year of the Wii actually significantly exceeded the first year line up for Gamecube (from strictly a numbers standpoint). So I don't get how Nintendo 'abandoned' their fans.

Because they completely shifted their development towards casual games.  The first year of the Wii wasn't that bad because you had Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and a few other "core" games.  These titles were developed before Nintendo knew that the non-gaming majority would embrace the console.  Once Nintendo figured this out, they shifted almost all development to non-games, only putting the minimal effort into their other traditionally "core" games.  The period after Super Mario Galaxy is a wasteland, most notably Q3/Q4 08 and Q1 09 so far.  What other first party goes entire QUARTERS without delivering quality games?!?

The support was MUCH more consistent on the Gamecube.

If you compare the first two years of both the GC and the Wii, and strictly relegating this to just first party titles, you get a Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros. Metroid and Mario Kart. The difference being is that most of those games were released in a much shorter time on the Wii, as opposed to being more spread out on the GC.

Secondly, all those games mentioned take years to develop. I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, sequels to all those games by last Christmas? We might get a new Zelda by the end of Wii's life, just like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, but Mario, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart have so far seen one iteration on each console back since the SNES day so I wouldn't bet on any of them making an E3 appearance. And Retro's no longer doing Metroid, but I doubt they'll be doing Brain Training 3 either.

So this brings us back to my original question, what exactly were you expecting? If you’re saying that Nintendo should be creating new ‘hardcore’ franchises, okay. But that doesn’t seem to be what you were trying to get at, at least from what I read of your opening post.

Also, I honestly believe people (even those who hate Nintendo) would seemingly be a bit more forgiving if games likes Smash and maybe Mario Kart were released at the end of the year instead of the beginning. Because once you blow your load, then it makes the system seem more empty, despite the fact that the actual NUMBER of games hasn’t changed.

[dammitmattt]

I'm seriously not joking... I remember Kingdom Hearts (hated), Xenosaga (hated), FFX2 (hated), Suikoden 3 (played a bit of, got bored of) then again, I wasn't really paying too much attention to what was out - juggling some big personal stuff with senior year of college with girlfriend at the time left me with little time to play games... and what I was playing was Arc the Lad Collection on PS1, or Melee/Soul Calibur/Virtua Tennis with friends since I was still dorming. Would love to hear a list of interesting 2002-2003 PS2 games though.

Yeah, the Wii's lineup this year has been disappointing as hell (I liked Brawl a lot, Cubello for what it was, and thought Wario was OK, and uhh...) though, I won't disagree.

The PS2 had more than JRPGs, you know.  Your memory is terrible.  Here are some:

Amplitude
Burnout 2
Beyond Good and Evil
Contra: Shattered Soldier
Dark Cloud 2
Def Jam Vendetta
Prince of Persia
Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
Maximo
Rez
various good sports games (NCAA, Madden, Tiger, MVP, NHL, etc.)
Hot Shots Golf 3
Virtua Fighter 4
Aggressive Inline
Stuntman
Wipeout Fusion
SOCOM
Onimusha 2
Sly Cooper
GTA: Vice City
NFS: Hot Pursuit 2
Timesplitters 2
Tony Hawk 4
Ratchet & Clank
Rygar
Shinobi
The Getaway
War of the Monsters
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Guilty Gear X2
Zone of the Enders 2
Midnight Club 2
Silent Hill 3
Downhill Domination
Splashdown
Soul Calibur 2
Freedom Fighters
Jak 2
kill.switch
SSX3
Time Crisis 3
Legacy of Kain: Defiance
Manhunt
SOCOM 2
XIII
Fatal Frame 2

Yes, I'm bored, but you are also historically wrong, so I needed to take the time to learn you.

If you compare the first two years of both the GC and the Wii, and strictly relegating this to just first party titles, you get a Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros. Metroid and Mario Kart. The difference being is that most of those games were released in a much shorter time on the Wii, as opposed to being more spread out on the GC.

Secondly, all those games mentioned take years to develop. I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, sequels to all those games by last Christmas? We might get a new Zelda by the end of Wii's life, just like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, but Mario, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart have so far seen one iteration on each console back since the SNES day so I wouldn't bet on any of them making an E3 appearance. And Retro's no longer doing Metroid, but I doubt they'll be doing Brain Training 3 either.

So this brings us back to my original question, what exactly were you expecting? If you’re saying that Nintendo should be creating new ‘hardcore’ franchises, okay. But that doesn’t seem to be what you were trying to get at, at least from what I read of your opening post.

Also, I honestly believe people (even those who hate Nintendo) would seemingly be a bit more forgiving if games likes Smash and maybe Mario Kart were released at the end of the year instead of the beginning. Because once you blow your load, then it makes the system seem more empty, despite the fact that the actual NUMBER of games hasn’t changed.

You can make all the excuses you've want.  Nintendo has given up on its core users and poured all development dollars into non-games.  You haven't done a single thing to prove this assertion wrong.

[Oblivion]

You can make all the excuses you've want.  Nintendo has given up on its core users and poured all development dollars into non-games.  You haven't done a single thing to prove this assertion wrong.

...you have to be fuggin kidding me. It seems you already made your decision about how to view Nintendo's output, reality be damned.

But just for fun, you mind listing the mountain non-games Nintendo has in the works?

[cool breeze]

ZoE2 is 6 years old already? it still looks amazing

[dammitmattt]

You can make all the excuses you've want.  Nintendo has given up on its core users and poured all development dollars into non-games.  You haven't done a single thing to prove this assertion wrong.

...you have to be fuggin kidding me. It seems you already made your decision about how to view Nintendo's output, reality be damned.

But just for fun, you mind listing the mountain non-games Nintendo has in the works?

They haven't delivered anything worthwhile since March and don't have anything worthwhile in the near future, excepting maybe Punch-Out.  How is that not giving up?

[Saint Cornelius]

...you have to be fuggin kidding me. It seems you already made your decision about how to view Nintendo's output, reality be damned.

Your opinion is not "reality", Oblivion. Grow up.

But just for fun, you mind listing the mountain non-games Nintendo has in the works?

Actually I do mind! But I'll tell you this: not only did me & the wifey make some fab dishes with Personal Cooking Trainer, but...



...is one of the best things I've ever put on my DS.

[drew]

or you could just hop on your laptop and play with the real thing

[Saint Cornelius]

Or I could just pull my DS out of my pocket.

Man you bitches are acting like a bunch of bitches!  bububububu Nintendo!

[Oblivion]

You can make all the excuses you've want.  Nintendo has given up on its core users and poured all development dollars into non-games.  You haven't done a single thing to prove this assertion wrong.

...you have to be fuggin kidding me. It seems you already made your decision about how to view Nintendo's output, reality be damned.

But just for fun, you mind listing the mountain non-games Nintendo has in the works?

They haven't delivered anything worthwhile since March and don't have anything worthwhile in the near future, excepting maybe Punch-Out.  How is that not giving up?

That's disappointing and all, but it brings us back to the question, what exactly are you arguing again? You first say that Nintendo is only making non-games or whatever, and now have changed that to games that you don't care about? Or is that supposed to be the new definition of non-game?

[Purple Filth]

ZoE2 is 6 years old already? it still looks amazing

it looks really nice even now but you can see the ps2 was being pushed at the time.

[Saint Cornelius]

That's disappointing and all, but it brings us back to the question, what exactly are you arguing again? You first say that Nintendo is only making non-games or whatever, and now have changed that to games that you don't care about? Or is that supposed to be the new definition of non-game?

When the fuck did I say any of the things you're attributing to me?

Just because Nintendo offends your delicate manhood does not give you license to put words in my mouth.

[Oblivion]

Yeah, I'm kinda confused myself at this point.

[y2kev]

PT Cooking is one of the best things Nintendo has put out in the past few years. As a college student, I appreciate it greatly.

[tiesto]

I'm seriously not joking... I remember Kingdom Hearts (hated), Xenosaga (hated), FFX2 (hated), Suikoden 3 (played a bit of, got bored of) then again, I wasn't really paying too much attention to what was out - juggling some big personal stuff with senior year of college with girlfriend at the time left me with little time to play games... and what I was playing was Arc the Lad Collection on PS1, or Melee/Soul Calibur/Virtua Tennis with friends since I was still dorming. Would love to hear a list of interesting 2002-2003 PS2 games though.

Yeah, the Wii's lineup this year has been disappointing as hell (I liked Brawl a lot, Cubello for what it was, and thought Wario was OK, and uhh...) though, I won't disagree.

The PS2 had more than JRPGs, you know.  Your memory is terrible.  Here are some:

Like I said, I was undergoing a lot of stuff in my life, so memories of what games came out when wasn't on my agenda. Actually I do own and love a few of those games listed too... especially Rez how could I forget that.

[drohne]

ddp daioujou, vf4, and contra shattered soldier came out in that 02-03 period. i'd take those three games over the total catalogue of the last three nintendo consoles

ps2

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The Wii is not for most of us.  The Wii is for people who'd like to play games but find the other consoles intimidating.  Hell, I'm sure a lot of people struggle to even put the sensor bar in a decent location.

The Wii is basically a system for the LCD.  It is unintimidating (easy to hook up), it is fun for little kids, special ed kids, asspies, and adults who barely game.  The system's design itself is inviting without being patronizing, which is what the GameCube was (kiddie handle lol) and it seems obvious that the GC was the first take to introduce LCD gaming to the masses.  Nintendo dumbed the GC down but fucked up on several elements.  Nintendo just needed to aim a bit lower, as evidenced from the system design that looks so much like an Apple product that I'm shocked they haven't really been sued yet (maybe they made an agreement?)

Games like Wii Fit are meant to bring adults into the game.  Again, multi button controls go way over the heads of the typical Wii consumer that basically is the kind that would lose all their lives in the first two levels of Super Mario Bros. if given the chance.  It is also a good thing for kids who, much like adults, where multibutton controls would go way over their heads.

Software wise, Nintendo doesn't give a shit about us.  I said it.  They're making tons of money and don't really need the old Nintendo fans.  I suppose they'd rather make $1.6 billion a year than $1.5 but we don't amount to a whole hell of a lot.  Most of Nintendo's future releases, barren as it is, has even less for their old fans.  Unless they converted or somehow is even dumber than 10 years ago, which may very well be.

[Saint Cornelius]

The Wii is not for most of us.  The Wii is for people who'd like to play games but find the other consoles intimidating.  Hell, I'm sure a lot of people struggle to even put the sensor bar in a decent location.

Sigh.

[brawndolicious]

I think most of the people who think the wii is best don't play games.  I liked nintendo and thought that a wagglewand graphical shitbox might force game designers to only come up with intuitive, original level design.

And then nintendo shat on my dreams.  Nintendo is going through the dark ages right now and any actual nintendo fan knows that.  At least they still have Retro studios..

[drohne]

i think retro's TOP MEN -- and i use the word 'top' relatively -- left after mp3, so no, they really haven't even got retro

[brawndolicious]

I don't know, the MP series has been pretty damn polished all-around so maybe the talent left there can still make really good AAA games.  They're probably going to a new IP now so I guess we'll see.

[drohne]

a frightful breach of decorum

won't happen again

[dammitmattt]

That's disappointing and all, but it brings us back to the question, what exactly are you arguing again? You first say that Nintendo is only making non-games or whatever, and now have changed that to games that you don't care about? Or is that supposed to be the new definition of non-game?

After the underwhelming Smash Bros and Mario Kart, Nintendo graced us with this glorious lineup:

Wii Fit
Wii Music
Endless Ocean
Animal Crossing
Wario Land
Mario Super Sluggers

That's it.  For 12 months that's all you get from Nintendo.  In March we get two old Gamecube games with Wii controls and then nothing else until Wii Sports 2.  Let me state this again.  Their entire lineup for the first half of 2009 consists of two GC ports and maybe Wii Sports 2.  It's MUCH worse than any other period.  Thankfully there are a few promising 3rd party games coming out during this period, but we all know how most "promising" 3rd party games turn out (hello Sonic and No More Heroes).

Now explain to me how they're not abandoning their core gamers, or even fucking trying at this point.

[bork]

I gotta play the other side for a moment.  Didn't Nintendo release Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, and more titles already?  Aren't more already in the works?  The hate is getting kinda stupid; I mean N-tards deserve it but the Wii makes for a decent alternative to the PS3/360.  Sometimes.  Kinda.  Maybe.  Sorta.

[Van Cruncheon]

no, it really doesn't

[Phoenix Dark]

Has Smash even suffered a backlash among Nfans (not Ntards)? I've heard it doesn't work for hyper competitive play anymore

I played Mario Kart at Best Buy. It's pretty fun 

[cool breeze]

I gotta play the other side for a moment.  Didn't Nintendo release Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, and more titles already?  Aren't more already in the works?  The hate is getting kinda stupid; I mean N-tards deserve it but the Wii makes for a decent alternative to the PS3/360.  Sometimes.  Kinda.  Maybe.  Sorta.

You can't do Wii alone unless it's for financial reasons.  It's in handheld territory where it's the secondary place where you play games after PC/360/PS3.

[AdmiralViscen]

lmfao @ Corny's crooked ironsights

[archie4208]

Has Smash even suffered a backlash among Nfans (not Ntards)? I've heard it doesn't work for hyper competitive play anymore

I played Mario Kart at Best Buy. It's pretty fun 

tourneyfags hate it and even some hardcore nintards admit the gameplay is inferior to brawl

[Tristam]

AV is right: Wii actually was a good console in 2007. Really the only way for Nintendo to redeem themselves would be to release another game of Mario Galaxy's caliber, but Miyamoto has clearly gone off the deep end; between his insanity and Iwata's plundering the blue ocean, I'm not anticipating anything from them.

[Purple Filth]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348068

Article of Reggie answering questions, resulting thread.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Brawl was one step forward and two steps back.  They fucked a lot of the essentials up but it is very polished but alas, it is a polished turd.

Mario Kart was ok, extremely cheap in the latter cups, and the SNES retro courses were badly designed (I still got all Golds in these Cups but it was hellish) not to mention some of the stupid and shitty character choices.  Why the fuck do we need a Baby Daisy or a Dry Bowser when the 7 Koopa Kids have been unused since 1991?  For shame.

Didn't Nintendo release Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, and more titles already?

Yeah but only one was awesome.  Well, maybe two but the GC version was superior.  I would agree that the Wii would have potential but Nintendo has a policy of one installment of these major franchises ('cept Zelda and MP) per generation.  I'd love to get a Galaxy 2 but I don't think that will happen.

So given all that, Nintendo has blown their software load and except for maybe a new Zelda or Fire Emblem, we won't be seeing much from them in terms of their traditional installments.

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't fucking care that they had an onslaught of first party titles in the first year. that was great, the Wii was worth owning even if it still couldn't keep up with 360. At least it was better than PS3.

But you can't go a full year without releasing any real games. Not even B grade stuff like Battalion Wars last year (well, ok, they did Wario at least). Why not a Kirby or F-Zero game for this Christmas? Why not an actual new fucking franchise? Hello?

[y2kev]

Why not GAMES THEY ALREADY HAD BUT CHOSE NOT TO LOCALIZE like Fatal Frame and DISASTER which HAS ENGLISH VOICE ACTING

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

But you can't go a full year without releasing any real games. Not even B grade stuff like Battalion Wars last year (well, ok, they did Wario at least). Why not a Kirby or F-Zero game for this Christmas? Why not an actual new fucking franchise? Hello?

Nintendo is creatively bankrupt and has been for some time now.

[AdmiralViscen]

Why not GAMES THEY ALREADY HAD BUT CHOSE NOT TO LOCALIZE like Fatal Frame and DISASTER which HAS ENGLISH VOICE ACTING

Yaya, or that.

or fucking ANYTHING, why is anyone even required to demonstrate that Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore or even mediumcore gamer? From March to March Wario is their only new release that isn't a nongame. And it's like 5 hours long.

I was among the optimistic defenders of Wii in 2007, but it's plainly stupid now.

[Brehvolution]

                                                                                

I don't fucking care that they had an onslaught of first party titles in the first year. that was great, the Wii was worth owning even if it still couldn't keep up with 360. At least it was better than PS3.

[AdmiralViscen]

Sorry dude, Uncharted and Ratchet are not better than the entirety of Wii's 2007 lineup.

[duckman2000]

Yeah but only one was awesome.

So awesome.

[cool breeze]

Why not GAMES THEY ALREADY HAD BUT CHOSE NOT TO LOCALIZE like Fatal Frame and DISASTER which HAS ENGLISH VOICE ACTING

I was actually considering importing Disaster from Europe the other day

and I thought Fatal Frame 4 was already announced? it could have just been some Nintendo fan jumping the gun and putting it in the list

[Tristam]

Anyway, what's most annoying about Nfags is that they always defend all of Nintendo's actions from a business standpoint. I can understand explaining their actions as corporate savvy (although in a delightful twist Wii Music failed miserably), but defending them?

[CurseoftheGods]

Sorry dude, Uncharted and Ratchet are not better than the entirety of Wii's 2007 lineup.

I agree. I played my Wii more than my PS3 in 2007.

[cool breeze]

Why not GAMES THEY ALREADY HAD BUT CHOSE NOT TO LOCALIZE like Fatal Frame and DISASTER which HAS ENGLISH VOICE ACTING

Yaya, or that.

or fucking ANYTHING, why is anyone even required to demonstrate that Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore or even mediumcore gamer? From March to March Wario is their only new release that isn't a nongame. And it's like 5 hours long.

I was among the optimistic defenders of Wii in 2007, but it's plainly stupid now.

It's a bit sad that the day where the games to look forward to on a Nintendo console are all third party has finally come. o wait i'm supposed to be excited for punchout 1 in ugly 3D now

(I'm actually quite excited for Sin and Punishment 2 and even Another Code Wii)  

Sorry dude, Uncharted and Ratchet are not better than the entirety of Wii's 2007 lineup.

I agree. I played my Wii more than my PS3 in 2007.

same here, but the only reason was that I own a 360 and picked up every multiplatform game for that.

[AdmiralViscen]

Even Punch Out is only catering to the hardcore by coincidence. Nintendo approved that title because it's one that is recognizable and remembered fondly by 30-somethings who played it when they were in their late teens.

same here, but the only reason was that I own a 360 and picked up every multiplatform game for that.

Right, I was talking exclusives too.

[brawndolicious]

I think that Mad World will be decent.  Nice style from what they've shown anyways.

[Bocsius]

Whining about Nintendo.

Lamenting over Nintendo fans.

Doing it over again next month. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[bork]

I gotta play the other side for a moment.  Didn't Nintendo release Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, and more titles already?  Aren't more already in the works?  The hate is getting kinda stupid; I mean N-tards deserve it but the Wii makes for a decent alternative to the PS3/360.  Sometimes.  Kinda.  Maybe.  Sorta.

You can't do Wii alone unless it's for financial reasons.  It's in handheld territory where it's the secondary place where you play games after PC/360/PS3.

OH MY ZOMBIE RAPTOR JESUS FUCK NO.   I can't even fathom what that would be like!   

Family/non-gamer people I know aside, there is only one friend of mine that actually CHOSE a Wii over an Xbox 360 or a PS3.  It boggles my fuckin' mind, especially when what he plays the most is stuff like Guitar Hero.  Aren't those games far superior on the real consoles?

[tiesto]

Sin and Punishment 2 is definitely my most anticipated game on the system, that was a pretty nice bone to throw to fans of good gaming on the Wii. Punch Out could be fun too, let's hope they don't fuck it up, I loved the original.

[Oblivion]

That's disappointing and all, but it brings us back to the question, what exactly are you arguing again? You first say that Nintendo is only making non-games or whatever, and now have changed that to games that you don't care about? Or is that supposed to be the new definition of non-game?

After the underwhelming Smash Bros and Mario Kart, Nintendo graced us with this glorious lineup:

Wii Fit
Wii Music
Endless Ocean
Animal Crossing
Wario Land
Mario Super Sluggers

That's it.  For 12 months that's all you get from Nintendo.  In March we get two old Gamecube games with Wii controls and then nothing else until Wii Sports 2.  Let me state this again.  Their entire lineup for the first half of 2009 consists of two GC ports and maybe Wii Sports 2.  It's MUCH worse than any other period.  Thankfully there are a few promising 3rd party games coming out during this period, but we all know how most "promising" 3rd party games turn out (hello Sonic and No More Heroes).

Now explain to me how they're not abandoning their core gamers, or even fucking trying at this point.

I honestly don't see how much worse that is than say something like the GC in 2003 where all that was there was Mario Kart: DD and SMBA4 on GBA. Hell, even 2007 for Wii was what, Super Paper Mario (which no one liked), Metroid Prime 3 (which few people, at least here, liked) and SMG. As for 2009, here's Nintendo's list of published games:



    * Wii Sports Resort
    * Punch-Out!! Wii
    * Another Code: R, Gateway of Memory
    * Kensax
    * Cosmic Walker
    * Spawn Smasher
    * Dynamic Slash
    * Tact of Magic
    * Sin & Punishment 2
    * Forever Blue 2: Beautiful Ocean
    * Everyone's the Star on the NHK Red-and-White Quiz Battle
    * Line Attack Heroes

From this list, there's only 2 games that would be classified as non-games. Hell, I'm not even saying that any of these games will even be good. But it's not all Wii Musics and Nintendo Dogs.

edit: Oh, and I hope no one with any functioning brain cells actually believes Nintendo will stop making Marios and Zeldas and the like. I'm not sure what Microsoft's excuse was for axing Ensemble, but there's no way Nintendo would kill some of their biggest cash cows.

[AdmiralViscen]

Where's NSMB 2 then.

Why invest in new games when you can let the old ones sell forever.

[Oblivion]

Where's NSMB 2 then.

Why invest in new games when you can let the old ones sell forever.

Viscen...what the hell? You're much more intelligent than this, bro. 

[drohne]

how many of those games are in-house? just wii sports 2, i think. frankly i'd rather have treasure or sandlot games than nintendo games, but that list doesn't say much for nintendo's game development efforts. i mean, they're not even ruining punch out themselves -- they're letting some canadians do it for them

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Where's NSMB 2 then.

Why invest in new games when you can let the old ones sell forever.

Viscen...what the hell? You're much more intelligent than this, bro. 

He is right though.  When NSMB probably sells 100k per month on average (much more than that during the holidays) you don't need to really bother with making a sequel.  Which is why Nintendo's DS efforts are so lacking these days where they once were pretty awesome back in 2005 and 2006.

[etiolate]

I'd cut Nintendo a lot more slack with the wii if they would actually create products that were games and market them with the same precision and deftness to non-gamers that they do their non-games. Instead they sort of cede the idea that non-gamers who own a wii only want simple and stupid non-games. This might serve nintendo's interests, but it sure as heck doesn't serve mine.

But those new gamers will eventually want something more, like all the people who grew up on a NES did. Some moved to Sega/Sony/whatever. Wii Sports is a gateway drug to gaming. Nintendo needs to be ready for when they want something more or all they are doing is providing somebody else an audience later down the road.

There was a social pattern with Nintendo that got them to Wii.

NES- New gamers, family friendly, big success.
SNES- Succeeds, but those gamers are hitting teen years and looking for anything a bit uglier in its morals like any teenager does. Nintendo starts to respond with stuff like Killer Instinct, allowing blood in MK2, and the rather dark Super Metroid.
N64- Nintendo gets abandoned by 3rd parties, Sony even more successful at appealing to a pseudo-mature gamer. Nintendo still tries to attract them with crappy acclaim fighters and the success of Goldeneye/wrestling games.
Gamecube- Nintendo comes in after its first loss, goes hard after third parties and mature titles and gets some back onto their home console. Despite this, Gamecube gets an even kiddier image somehow, as the mentality that started with the Genesis days has just grown over time. No amount of Resident Evil made up for Mario existing somehow. The FPS/wrestling audience they had before is captured by Microsoft.

At some point during the Gamecube's death and the DS/Wii, I think Nintendo said "fuck 'em" to the gaming audience who wouldn't change their minds about 'kiddy'.  Nintendo wasn't going to give Mario guns to reach these people. So, they went around this audience, looking for the new people. But if they don't create a bridging game by the end of this generation, and keep it going into next, the cycle will just repeat.

[Oblivion]

how many of those games are in-house? just wii sports 2, i think. frankly i'd rather have treasure or sandlot games than nintendo games, but that list doesn't say much for nintendo's game development efforts.

In-house as in specifically EAD? There's a lot of people there, but the projects don't usually change much. The Zelda team should be working on the next Zelda, EAD Tokyo is probably doing that Jungle Beat port/remix. The animal crossing team just finished, there may be a few doing Pikmin 3, 10 guys doing Brain Training 3, and I don't know much else that EAD does.

i mean, they're not even ruining punch out themselves -- they're letting some canadians do it for them

Canadians, actually.

edit: damn you!

He is right though.  When NSMB probably sells 100k per month on average (much more than that during the holidays) you don't need to really bother with making a sequel.  Which is why Nintendo's DS efforts are so lacking these days where they once were pretty awesome back in 2005 and 2006.

That's correct, but it kinda also ignores the fact that Nintendo making few Mario games to begin with is nothing new. I mean, surely we can't forget that NSMB was the first 2D Mario in 15 years (10 if you wanna count Yoshi's Island).

[Bocsius]

But those new gamers will eventually want something more, like all the people who grew up on a NES did. Some moved to Sega/Sony/whatever. Wii Sports is a gateway drug to gaming. Nintendo needs to be ready for when they want something more or all they are doing is providing somebody else an audience later down the road.

If Nintendo wants to keep the Wii audience, they'll have to create something that deals with menopause and/or osteoporosis.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think Blue Ocean is a crock and that the GC was Nintendo's first attempt at LCD Gaming with Wii being its second.

The reason why GC was called a kid's machine is because of the handle, the dumbed down copycat DS2 controller, and the direction taken on Wind Waker.  Mario wasn't the problem except for the talking FLUDD but I doubt most people even knew or cared about that.  Plus it was going up against the hotness known as GTA3 and Vice City. 

[EmCeeGrammar]

...
I couldnt get past the first few screens in metroid, got lost in zelda, died a million times in mario. I think I was 6 at the time.  I never had a snes, instead a genesis with mortal kombat and and sonic. I dont play those franchises anymore.  So no I'm not nostalgic for nintendo.

It may be hard to believe, but some of us ntarded like how they go about game design compared to other developers.  Even things like wiimusic and wiifit are simple and clean fun.

You're the worst kind.  You're too young, stupid, or incompetent to understand where our hobby came from (seriously, you died a million times in Mario?!?  You don't play the extremely few good games that Nintendo still makes.  You profess to like actual games, but then you champion shit like Wii Music and Wii Fit?!?  I can almost understand people holding on to Nintendo, but I'm absolutely incapable of understanding people who are supposedly gamers who recently became Nintendo fans with the Wii and hold up Wii Music and Wii Fit as examples of simple and clean fun.

You've GOT to be a joke character.  Nothing else makes sense.

Wtf is this shit. Your lack of understanding seems to come from you not being able to conveniently categorise people who like different kinds of games.
Me, you, everyone likes different things for whatever reasons. Why are you bent out of shape over someone accepting WiiMusic for what it is? I gave guitar hero a fair shake, I find it boring. I like the occassional gamers game and have owned a psp, ps2, and purchased a dreamcast years after sega went third party and acquainted myself with the catalouge.  But at some point I realised I dont like spending so much on games and would rather just stick with one console.  And if mario, warioware waggle, metroid, smash, animal crossing wild world expansion pack, wii music, etc. sounds more enticing than Fallout 3, gears, fable, etc thats my own damn business.