should I spend 15 years making a game?

[recursivelyenumerable]

I don't care what anyone says, the make-a-game-from-scratch-by-yourself thing is kinda romantic to me and I've been feeling a bit nostalgic for my shut-in days anyway. 

so, ok.  bob took about 5 years to make a game of about the scale I have in mind.  he had to teach himself to program, which I don't really have to do tho I do need to teach myself a lot about graphics, sound, AI programming.  he also had to teach himself to make graphics, which I have to do, and music and sound, which I have to do though I'm probably starting from a better position than him. 

ALSO, he took the easy way out and wrote his game in C using existing tools.  I want to write MY game in a language I will design myself, using a compiler and dev tools I will implement myself.  Plus, I want to make it in (crappy) 3D.  Those points add at least another 2.5 years, also I unfortunately am not really in a position to shut myself up in a room the whole time, so let's double it. 

hmm.  i'll be 42.  i doubt i'll have any success with women during that time either way, so why not go for it? 

[demi]

What platform, so I can pirate it

[recursivelyenumerable]

i will probably just dev on a Linux PC and use that as my target initially, and later think about porting to whatever other platforms exist in 2024

[drew]

given youre preexisting mental frailty im all for it

imagine the blog this guy can make once he levels up beyond agoraphobiguy

[recursivelyenumerable]

did your mode of reference to me abruptly switch from second to third person?

[drew]

did you just answer your own question?

[recursivelyenumerable]

no, actually

[drew]

yes, subconsciously

[recursivelyenumerable]

I've actually fantasized about making a dating sim (though I've never played one) and have some ideas for it.  The obvious title is "Crazy for You".  But my first choice would be an RPG, of course.  Something like the Gameboy SaGa/FF Legend games.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I want to make it 3D because, as a programmer, it's potentially more interesting for me to explore.  I might be able to experiment with procedurally generated content etc. which could play to my strengths more than having to create a gazillion tiles and frames pixel by pixel.  I'm sure whatever I end up making will end up horribly ugly either way, but at least I'll have fun.  Although doing an 8-bit GB style game with very limited animation and tile variation could be worthwhile.

[chronovore]

Dating games could use some real-world insight. Train up the geeks, get them lucky with the ladies, suddenly the jocks of the world don't have anything going. We'll have all the money, all the girls, and we can relegate the varsity football and wrestling teams to forced labor camps. Preferably gold farming for our WoW accounts.

Note: I don't have a WoW account.

But, um, yeah -- real talk? Build your game, but don't do it alone. There's sooo much room for collaboration on the web anymore. You should be able to get some good, free help from people who need to collaborate on projects to get into formal (funded) dev work. Especially artists. It needn't be ugly, unless you want it to be.

[recursivelyenumerable]

My dating sim would be based on Marx's 1844 manuscripts. 

In the approach to woman as the spoil and hand-maid of communal lust is expressed the infinite degradation in which man exists for himself, for the secret of this approach has its unambiguous, decisive, plain and undisguised expression in the relation of man to woman and in the manner in which the direct and natural species-relationship is conceived. The direct, natural, and necessary relation of person to person is the relation of man to woman. In this natural species-relationship man’s relation to nature is immediately his relation to man, just as his relation to man is immediately his relation to nature – his own natural destination. In this relationship, therefore, is sensuously manifested, reduced to an observable fact, the extent to which the human essence has become nature to man, or to which nature to him has become the human essence of man.

From this relationship one can therefore judge man’s whole level of development. From the character of this relationship follows how much man as a species-being, as man, has come to be himself and to comprehend himself; the relation of man to woman is the most natural relation of human being to human being. It therefore reveals the extent to which man’s natural behaviour has become human, or the extent to which the human essence in him has become a natural essence – the extent to which his human nature has come to be natural to him. This relationship also reveals the extent to which man’s need has become a human need; the extent to which, therefore, the other person as a person has become for him a need – the extent to which he in his individual existence is at the same time a social being.

I've had bad luck working with graphic artists in the past.  I can't communicate with them very well, but then I feel responsible for what they create.  They ask me what I want and I can only answer "not that", then they get understandably frustrated.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I'd probably do more than that, I'd keep the code in an online repository where everyone can get the latest build and give suggestions and criticism for me to completely ignore.

[chronovore]

I've had bad luck working with graphic artists in the past.  I can't communicate with them very well, but then I feel responsible for what they create.  They ask me what I want and I can only answer "not that", then they get understandably frustrated.

Welcome to the world of game development. Programmers rarely communicate well with artists. That's why there's an art director in there, usually. If you want to collaborate openly, however, you can always say "here's my vision for the game, here's how it will play, now do YOUR THING." Don't take ownership over stuff you're not doing.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, the problem is that there are apparently aspects of my "vision" that I can't communicate, but it really bugs me when they're not there.  In the last (failed) project I worked on, I initially figured "hey, graphics aren't my thing, so I shouldn't even try to direct the artists" like you recommended, but eventually I couldn't take it (my fault, not theirs).  Of course if I do the graphics they won't match up with my vision either, but I'd just rather have it be due to my total ineptitude than due to a collaboration mismatch.

Also, I'm not at all interested in breaking into the commercial game industry (unless I could somehow do it as a director with total creative control and total independence, including from market pressures).  I have a programming job already where I take orders from our president and from the market.

[chronovore]

I didn't mean to imply you were looking to break in. I only suggested that if you want enthusiastic art help, there are loads of people out there who would be happy to contribute to your game, so /they/ can get in.

[tiesto]

I say go for it, I love the GB SaGa games, and I have made a few RPGs myself, in the past... with really awful graphics (we're talking sub NES, 2 color 8x14 tiles here), and one with RPG Maker. I have been thinking about getting back into development soon, making a game on RPG maker with Turbo Grafx style graphics and nostalgia thrown in there. But my ideas are pretty wacky (my last game was about a struggling meth addict in NYC) and I am horrible at writing dialogue or coming up with non-orthodox battle systems.

[Jabberwocky]

  I guess this Bob guy has been inspiring a few people, despite his conceited insanity. I've also been wanting to make my own little game. I've been wanting to do it for a while though. I'd probably just make it with crappy RPG Maker.

[demi]

Nothin hard about learning to make games. Learn Source and make some gay mod. You win

[tiesto]

Someone needs to make the EB RPG, in RPG maker or something. I'd play that.

[chronovore]

It's just big moe-moe yaoi boy-on-boy Dating Sim for girls. Combat is a complex series of dialog trees with most rounds ending in "dead thread."

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Demi is the final boss.

[close]

[Madrun Badrun]

If it's a dating sim make it have a wilco ending where the girl you're trying to get ends up getting gangbanged and you're forced to spend your life working retail. 

[CurseoftheGods]

If it's a dating sim make it have a wilco ending where the girl you're trying to get ends up getting gangbanged and you're forced to spend your life working retail. 

[Diunx]

I was thinking about making the game I always wanted to play but them I remembered that I already played MGS4 .

Carry on guys.

[EmCeeGrammar]

An rpg? Really? I'd say wet your feet with other genres that wouldnt require a narrative or potentialy exploitable/broken mechanics.  Do it yourself shmups/platformers are a good place to start.  Easy to tweak, try new things, and finish relatively quickly.

[demi]

I was thinking about making the game I always wanted to play but them I remembered that I already played MGS4 .

Carry on guys.

So what did you actually play on MGS4? lawl

[recursivelyenumerable]

An rpg? Really? I'd say wet your feet with other genres that wouldnt require a narrative or potentialy exploitable/broken mechanics.  Do it yourself shmups/platformers are a good place to start.  Easy to tweak, try new things, and finish relatively quickly.

I'm probably going to do a whole bunch of simplified prototypes of different concepts for the battle system (which will probably have an action component) and dungeon exploring mechanics before I find one that works, so in effect I will end up "wetting my feet" with a bunch of smaller games in the course of making the big game anyway.

[recursivelyenumerable]

What's wrong with RPGs? you can always start out by creating one with the dullest most simple turn-base mechanics with basic commands.

shmups and platformers will give you a hard time if you're gonna start them from scratch (physics, balancing, hit detection, blah blah)

The problem with the first approach is that even with a conceptually unambitious RPG you still have to create all the content, which takes forever.  I'm going to do it the opposite way: having a big ambitious game in the back of my mind, but starting out by creating experimental prototypes of small pieces of the game, which almost function as games in themselves.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Not sure where you're getting that, explain?  Dyack may be a putz, but he eventually finished a few games.  The problems with them appear to stem from his lack of taste, rather than any inherent problems with SK's development methodology.  And I'm going into this expecting a 99% chance of failure anyway.

[dammitmattt]

I wouldn't start anything that takes that long.  You never know what you're going to be doing in 5 years, let alone 15.  You might even be *gasp* married with children.  I'd do something that's much more realistic on a MUCH shorter time frame.

And hell, if you do one thing or create one mechanic that works, maybe you could even sell it to someone and have the opportunity for someone else to bankroll a full game.

[tiesto]

What's wrong with RPGs? you can always start out by creating one with the dullest most simple turn-base mechanics with basic commands.

Balance is the hardest thing to do when making an RPG... At least based on my experience with the genre.

[recursivelyenumerable]

And hell, if you do one thing or create one mechanic that works, maybe you could even sell it to someone and have the opportunity for someone else to bankroll a full game.

Yeah, that's another possible advantage of the "experimental prototype" approach.  I expect to create or contribute to some open source development tools along the way that might be useful in other contexts as well.  Unfortunately though, for me having a big earthshaking project that my work is supposed to eventually lead to is necessary for motivation.  I have a really hard time even motivating myself to get out of bed in the morning, so a small unambitious project doesn't cut it unless I can tell myself it's not JUST a small project but will become a part of something greater that will change the course of world history, etc.

[GilloD]

Yes. Do it. Add vehicles.

[recursivelyenumerable]

No vehicles.  My first design decision!

[chronovore]

No vehicles.  My first design decision!

You are already on the right track.