Author Topic: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!  (Read 4295 times)

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Ganhyun

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Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« on: January 14, 2009, 08:59:31 AM »
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86092

http://www.vdare.com/baldwin/081216_convention.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Levant/nancy116.htm

http://blog.au.org/2008/12/16/the-concon-con-we-dont-need-to-rewrite-the-bill-of-rights/

From the newswithviews site:

Quote
Article 1-A Sec.1 - "Freedom of expression shall not be abridged except in declared emergency."

Article 1A Sec.8 - "The practice of religion shall be privileged."

Article 1B Sec. 8 - "Bearing of arms shall be confined to the police, members of the armed forces, and those licensed under law."

From WND article:

Quote
only two more states before a Constitutional Convention could be assembled

From the au.org blog:

Quote
Here’s the problem: Once a con-con is convened, all issues are on the table. There would be no way to limit the discussion to equal rights for women, balanced budgets or any other single-issue. The event would quickly become a free-for-all.

Quote
Three states that have called for a con-con have since rescinded the vote, but it’s unclear if they had the authority to do that.

Quote
Oddly enough, this is one of those issues that unites the left and the right. Neither side wants to see a con-con.

I guess neither side wants it to be taken over by the other.  I'm already screwed. GA voted yes :(

Quote
States that have already approved a Con Con include Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming.

Quote
Baldwin said residents of California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin have not yet voted for a new convention.

Sigh. So, if this happens, a group with more power than Congress can rewrite the Constitution as they see fit. Principled Policy's take on this is something I can see happening as well.

Quote
However fighting a new Constitution would be a long, hard, ugly and expensive battle which is guaranteed to leave the nation split along ideological lines. It is not difficult to envision civil unrest, riots or even civil war as a result of any re-writing of the current Constitution," the site said.
XDF

BlueTsunami

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 09:09:31 AM »
Reads a little bit' sensational. Civil War!
:9

Bocsius

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 09:16:03 AM »
I am outraged enough to take up arms and flee to Montana where I shall make my last stand against  this encroaching liberal aggression. Though I will likely lose my liberty and my life, with all things they take from me, they can't take away my dignity.

Tristam

  • Member
Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 10:59:11 AM »
Only paranoid backwoods rednecks believe this shit would actually come to pass.

Ganhyun

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 11:15:25 AM »
Only paranoid backwoods rednecks believe this shit would actually come to pass.

Really? Really dude? Would the ACTUAL OHIO BILLS that failed help you understand this is going on?

Links to the Ohio Bills that failed for those who automatically dismiss anything not from Huffington Post and CNN.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_SJR_9

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_HJR_8
XDF

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 11:25:03 AM »
OH FUCK!

We've got to rush this thing through and make only good changes while Bush is still in office.  Barack Hussien Obama ain't touchin my guns dammnit!

Crushed

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 11:29:04 AM »
Michael Pocelinko, 22. Twenty-two years of dumb thoughts buoyed by a filial geyser of cash. Michael Pocelinko was turning crafty now, though, riding that geyser to new heights, gazing at the arrayed countryside with greasy perspicacity.

He already had three locked vaults in his basement compound, his Ark: One for pistols, nestled in woodchip terraria, with drip-bottles filled with bullets. One for shotguns, surrounded by a moat, languorously sunning themselves on artificial rocks beneath potted acacias. One for rifles, leaned in little cubicles, wearing little ties, drinking mugs of machine oil with clever slogans, "you don't have to be semiautomatic to work here, ~but it helps~!" All of them in pairs, so that they could be fruitful and multiply. But Michael knew he had to expand.

The impenetrable future rose before Michael like a blazon of dark possibility. When the gun stores shuttered forever, when ownership was banned, when the last free men cast lead balls from Montana towers to resupply their pipe-muskets against the swarthy hordes, what next? America might fall, but surely pockets of resistance would persist, and surely the Feds would continue to seize and oppress what crude firearms remained, on and on unto infinity, until ATF cavemen had confiscated the last throwable rock on Earth's barren surface. Michael wasn't planning for the apocalypse, or the post-apocalypse. He was far beyond that.

Fueled by the inexhorable power of daddy's wallet, Michael was buying every possible gun. Directed energy weapons were old hat--vault 4, superconducting barrels bubbling in liquid hydrogen with little plastic castles and flash-frozen goldfish. He had guns that shot spikes, stalagmites, icicles, popsicles, sickles, hypodermics that inflicted sickle-cell anemia. He had a gun made out of motorized dead butterflies that he bought from a crooked lepidopoterist in Sri Lanka, who claimed it would summon hurricanes to sunder the target with counterroating winds. He had a gun that shot an infinitely telescoping rod with a sensor that stopped it always a centimeter from any surface, in case the Feds moved in with commando toddlers that only needed to be frightened away. He had water guns, some with built-in heaters in case the feds attacked with golems made of tea. He had a gun that very slowly grew incompressable crystals out of its barrel, in case the Feds tried to crush him on a geologic timescale. He had a steampunk gatling gun that fired 3,000 leeches a second, and whose maker claimed it sucked blood faster than vampire John Henry. He had net guns and nettle guns and knitting needle guns. He had a howitzer that shot bazookas, which shot pistols, which shot miniature guns made of carbon nanotubes, which shot bullets so tiny they could pick the parasites off a gnat.

In a high turret of his compound, Michael employed a crack team of five-year-olds to think up new possible guns. "This one shoots candy canes!" Michael found a dealer on the Archangelsk black market who was rumored to have ties with corrupt elves at the North Pole. He bought the gun.
"This is a dinosaur gun. It was made by a T-Rex and so the trigger is tiny, because he has a tiny arms. But the gun is HUGE!" Michael scoured the badlands of Utah and Colorado until one day a mute paleontologist with a harelip blindfolded him and led him to a secret grotto, right below the K-T boundary. There were ruins of a prehistoric city, massive and terrible. Sitting on a workbench was a gargantuan ray-gun wrought of pure iridium. Michael bought it.
"This one shoots ICKY BOOGERS. It has a tube to load them straight from your noseholes ehehehe!" In the post-post-post-post-post-post-apocalyptic future, who knew what the Feds would try to restrict? Michael had it custom-ordered.

Day by day, the vaults of Michael's compound grew full to bursting with guns. He expanded them ever downwards, until vault 668817-AF-0Z2 penetrated the Mohorivicic discontinuity and he inadvertantly acquired the Gun of the Magma Men. Michael still wasn't satiated, and scoured the ends of the earth, daddy's credit card in one hand, a handful of golden trinkets in the other. He had to have them all. Every possible gun.

On his 80th birthday, Michael wheezed at the top of the Thousand Stairs of Ngrydyl. The forgotten Plateau of Zynd stretched before him, where a lost sect of buddhists were rumored to have a mandala-making gun of great power. It captured sandgrains from the wind, stored them, colored them, and fired them with micron precision. Michael was gonna buy it.

But the exertion had been too much. The strange man with pockets of gold was treated to the finest sky-burial, and the ravens considered his fat western meat a great delicacy.

Meanwhile, in America, a man bought a hot dog.
wtc

Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 11:43:21 AM »
Michael Pocelinko, 22. Twenty-two years of dumb thoughts buoyed by a filial geyser of cash. Michael Pocelinko was turning crafty now, though, riding that geyser to new heights, gazing at the arrayed countryside with greasy perspicacity.

He already had three locked vaults in his basement compound, his Ark: One for pistols, nestled in woodchip terraria, with drip-bottles filled with bullets. One for shotguns, surrounded by a moat, languorously sunning themselves on artificial rocks beneath potted acacias. One for rifles, leaned in little cubicles, wearing little ties, drinking mugs of machine oil with clever slogans, "you don't have to be semiautomatic to work here, ~but it helps~!" All of them in pairs, so that they could be fruitful and multiply. But Michael knew he had to expand.

The impenetrable future rose before Michael like a blazon of dark possibility. When the gun stores shuttered forever, when ownership was banned, when the last free men cast lead balls from Montana towers to resupply their pipe-muskets against the swarthy hordes, what next? America might fall, but surely pockets of resistance would persist, and surely the Feds would continue to seize and oppress what crude firearms remained, on and on unto infinity, until ATF cavemen had confiscated the last throwable rock on Earth's barren surface. Michael wasn't planning for the apocalypse, or the post-apocalypse. He was far beyond that.

Fueled by the inexhorable power of daddy's wallet, Michael was buying every possible gun. Directed energy weapons were old hat--vault 4, superconducting barrels bubbling in liquid hydrogen with little plastic castles and flash-frozen goldfish. He had guns that shot spikes, stalagmites, icicles, popsicles, sickles, hypodermics that inflicted sickle-cell anemia. He had a gun made out of motorized dead butterflies that he bought from a crooked lepidopoterist in Sri Lanka, who claimed it would summon hurricanes to sunder the target with counterroating winds. He had a gun that shot an infinitely telescoping rod with a sensor that stopped it always a centimeter from any surface, in case the Feds moved in with commando toddlers that only needed to be frightened away. He had water guns, some with built-in heaters in case the feds attacked with golems made of tea. He had a gun that very slowly grew incompressable crystals out of its barrel, in case the Feds tried to crush him on a geologic timescale. He had a steampunk gatling gun that fired 3,000 leeches a second, and whose maker claimed it sucked blood faster than vampire John Henry. He had net guns and nettle guns and knitting needle guns. He had a howitzer that shot bazookas, which shot pistols, which shot miniature guns made of carbon nanotubes, which shot bullets so tiny they could pick the parasites off a gnat.

In a high turret of his compound, Michael employed a crack team of five-year-olds to think up new possible guns. "This one shoots candy canes!" Michael found a dealer on the Archangelsk black market who was rumored to have ties with corrupt elves at the North Pole. He bought the gun.
"This is a dinosaur gun. It was made by a T-Rex and so the trigger is tiny, because he has a tiny arms. But the gun is HUGE!" Michael scoured the badlands of Utah and Colorado until one day a mute paleontologist with a harelip blindfolded him and led him to a secret grotto, right below the K-T boundary. There were ruins of a prehistoric city, massive and terrible. Sitting on a workbench was a gargantuan ray-gun wrought of pure iridium. Michael bought it.
"This one shoots ICKY BOOGERS. It has a tube to load them straight from your noseholes ehehehe!" In the post-post-post-post-post-post-apocalyptic future, who knew what the Feds would try to restrict? Michael had it custom-ordered.

Day by day, the vaults of Michael's compound grew full to bursting with guns. He expanded them ever downwards, until vault 668817-AF-0Z2 penetrated the Mohorivicic discontinuity and he inadvertantly acquired the Gun of the Magma Men. Michael still wasn't satiated, and scoured the ends of the earth, daddy's credit card in one hand, a handful of golden trinkets in the other. He had to have them all. Every possible gun.

On his 80th birthday, Michael wheezed at the top of the Thousand Stairs of Ngrydyl. The forgotten Plateau of Zynd stretched before him, where a lost sect of buddhists were rumored to have a mandala-making gun of great power. It captured sandgrains from the wind, stored them, colored them, and fired them with micron precision. Michael was gonna buy it.

But the exertion had been too much. The strange man with pockets of gold was treated to the finest sky-burial, and the ravens considered his fat western meat a great delicacy.

Meanwhile, in America, a man bought a hot dog.

Dude I totally just read all of that.
+1

ToxicAdam

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 11:52:09 AM »
That's the new push for some cultural conservatives. That the constitution is a divinely inspired contract. Since most of the founding fathers were devout christians, the contract they created is an extension of that faith.

So,the unsaid implication is that any changes to this contract is defying the word of god himself. Tie in the NRA and the anti-globalist crowd, and you have a nice pocket of people you can shake down for donations for your shitty newsletter or political party.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 12:11:09 PM »
America, having the oldest surviving constitution, is somewhat peculiar in the world, believing that its Constitution is a sacred document that cannot be meaningfully altered, and that it must be interpreted using 18th century bifocals. The Canadian view, in contrast, is that the Constitution is a "living tree," which can be changed as Canadian society changes. Also the rights in the Canadian Charter are subject to "reasonable limits."

Crushed

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 12:14:24 PM »
I remember reading that some French are totally confused by the idea of a republic having a 200-year-old constitution, and wonder why we just don't write new ones every now and then.
wtc

Ganhyun

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 12:19:53 PM »
America, having the oldest surviving constitution, is somewhat peculiar in the world, believing that its Constitution is a sacred document that cannot be meaningfully altered, and that it must be interpreted using 18th century bifocals. The Canadian view, in contrast, is that the Constitution is a "living tree," which can be changed as Canadian society changes. Also the rights in the Canadian Charter are subject to "reasonable limits."

Canada isn't a living tree, its America's Hat, lol.
XDF

Flannel Boy

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 12:21:49 PM »
I remember reading that some French are totally confused by the idea of a republic having a 200-year-old constitution, and wonder why we just don't write new ones every now and then.

This is a view that is common in the world. The original framers of a constitution are unable to foresee the needs of future generations of citizens, whose values may differ from their own in meaningful ways, and who may live in world that is socially, economically, and politically very different from their own. Of course, there is also a need for a stability and certainty and assurances that the Constitution will not be changed based on capricious individual whims.

Cheebs

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 12:22:04 PM »
America, having the oldest surviving constitution, is somewhat peculiar in the world, believing that its Constitution is a sacred document that cannot be meaningfully altered, and that it must be interpreted using 18th century bifocals. The Canadian view, in contrast, is that the Constitution is a "living tree," which can be changed as Canadian society changes. Also the rights in the Canadian Charter are subject to "reasonable limits."
We are all not that bad. :-\ We have plenty of "living document" believers in the government and a few on the Supreme Court.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2009, 12:25:03 PM »

We are all not that bad. :-\ We have plenty of "living document" believers in the government and a few on the Supreme Court.

Right, I'm talking about prevailing views in the countries.

Crushed

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2009, 12:41:22 PM »
I remember reading that some French are totally confused by the idea of a republic having a 200-year-old constitution, and wonder why we just don't write new ones every now and then.

This is a view that is common in the world. The original framers of a constitution are unable to foresee the needs of future generations of citizens, whose values may differ from their own in meaningful ways, and who may live in world that is socially, economically, and politically very different from their own. Of course, there is also a need for a stability and certainty and assurances that the Constitution will not be changed based on capricious individual whims.


Of course, but it's important to remember that the framers lived in a time when "interstate commerce" meant a farmer taking his wagon of cotton on a ferry across the river to trade for farming tools, and maybe a slave or two if he had had a very good year. A time when the nation was viewed as a federation of allied trade states composed of agrarian populations, and when some people feared that a nation that stretched all the way to Ohio would be too large to govern from Washington.
wtc

T234

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2009, 01:56:41 PM »
o lord, this topic :lol

i would be in favor against constitutional amendments that limit the south in just about every way


Not all of us are completely ass-backwards Cohen. Last time I checked, y'all voted for Proposition 8, and y'all also have a place as progressive as San Francisco. Not even the college campuses here are as progressive as your state's second-largest metro area. And Prop 8 still passed.
UK

Flannel Boy

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2009, 01:58:47 PM »
I remember reading that some French are totally confused by the idea of a republic having a 200-year-old constitution, and wonder why we just don't write new ones every now and then.

This is a view that is common in the world. The original framers of a constitution are unable to foresee the needs of future generations of citizens, whose values may differ from their own in meaningful ways, and who may live in a world that is socially, economically, and politically very different from their own. Of course, there is also a need for stability and certainty and assurances that the Constitution will not be changed based on capricious individual whims.


Of course, but it's important to remember that the framers lived in a time when "interstate commerce" meant a farmer taking his wagon of cotton on a ferry across the river to trade for farming tools, and maybe a slave or two if he had had a very good year. A time when the nation was viewed as a federation of allied trade states composed of agrarian populations, and when some people feared that a nation that stretched all the way to Ohio would be too large to govern from Washington.

It's as if you missed my second sentence.

T234

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2009, 01:59:33 PM »
He doesn't post here.
UK

Crushed

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 02:01:17 PM »
It's as if you missed my second sentence.
I read it, I just felt like driving home the reality of how different things were.  :-[
wtc

Flannel Boy

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 02:04:11 PM »
It's as if you missed my second sentence.
I read it, I just felt like driving home the reality of how different things were.  :-[
'

The "but" threw me off. If you said "in addition to your first point" instead, I wouldn't have understood your point.


recursivelyenumerable

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 03:23:32 PM »
even if it were convened and all issues were on the table (and it's not at all clear that they would be), it's still only to propose amendments, and anything the delegates vote to propose still has to be ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures.  pretty unlikely anything controversial would get through that.

it's kinda cool though how we have this potentially critical codepath in our kernel that hasn't been tested in 220 years.  who knows what it might do!
QED

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 03:25:33 PM »


"... It is too late for me, my son..."
PSP

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 03:47:35 PM »
mmmm, redistribution of wealth


mmmmmm plus, forced redistribution of wealth
duc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 03:49:46 PM »
Only paranoid backwoods rednecks believe this shit would actually come to pass.

Really? Really dude? Would the ACTUAL OHIO BILLS that failed help you understand this is going on?

Links to the Ohio Bills that failed for those who automatically dismiss anything not from Huffington Post and CNN.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_SJR_9

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_HJR_8

all sorts of crazy bills are submitted for consideration and voting at the state legislature level every day. if your local senator or rep can author it, it can come up for voting. that should scare you more than any "con-con" threat (despite it being totally freakin' awesome).
duc

Ganhyun

  • Used to worship Muckhole. Now worships Robo.
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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2009, 03:53:14 PM »
Only paranoid backwoods rednecks believe this shit would actually come to pass.

Really? Really dude? Would the ACTUAL OHIO BILLS that failed help you understand this is going on?

Links to the Ohio Bills that failed for those who automatically dismiss anything not from Huffington Post and CNN.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_SJR_9

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_HJR_8

all sorts of crazy bills are submitted for consideration and voting at the state legislature level every day. if your local senator or rep can author it, it can come up for voting. that should scare you more than any "con-con" threat (despite it being totally freakin' awesome).

Trust me, some of the stuff the Ga General Assembly has come up with is truly wacky.

XDF

Bocsius

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2009, 03:58:16 PM »
As long as you don't start chicken little threads for all of those Georgia proposals, it's fine by me.

Ganhyun

  • Used to worship Muckhole. Now worships Robo.
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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2009, 04:01:26 PM »
As long as you don't start chicken little threads for all of those Georgia proposals, it's fine by me.

but but but but butt

;)
XDF

drew

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2009, 04:18:58 PM »
Only paranoid backwoods rednecks believe this shit would actually come to pass.

well, my cousin does live in michigan


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Mandark

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Re: Save the U.S. Constitution while there's time!!!
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2009, 01:24:57 PM »
"The globalists who currently control Washington, D.C., and Wall Street are, no doubt, salivating over the opportunity to officially dismantle America's independence and national sovereignty, and establish a globalist North American Union – in much the same way that globalists created the European Union. A new Constitutional Convention is exactly the tool they need to cement their sinister scheme into law."

Well okay.

And I'm not touching any links to VDare.