war on drugs, smh

[Guybrush Threepwood]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

I'm getting sick of reading stories like this.

Something needs to be done about police officers. They commit horrible crimes and often get no punishment because the police think they are better than everyone else. They should have to sign some sort of document agreeing to double/triple/quadruple the penalty they get for every crime they commit or something.

As for the war on drugs, the President or Congress that ends the war on drugs (or at least legalizes cannabis) will be beloved forever as the savior of our economy.

[Diunx]

war on drugs

[brawndolicious]

Well those officers were expecting to come in contact with a competing drug dealer so it's understandable that they were jumpy when a guy walked towards them with a gun.  People aren't perfect and yet we have to give somebody the responsibility to enforce the law.

I agree with legalizing marijuana.  The problem is that so many people have it ingrained in their psyche that it's some sort of gateway drug that it probably won't be legal nationwide until all of us are wrinkly.

[FatalT]

The sooner people understand that marijuana is on the same level as alcohol and cigarettes, the less criminal charges people will have.

[lordmaji]

war on drugs

Second!

[drozmight]

the President or Congress that ends the war on drugs (or at least legalizes cannabis) will be beloved forever as the savior of our economy.

Why would they fall on their own sword like that?

[Cheebs]

No politician will do something like that, it is way too unpopular of a view. It will happen only when the majority of the public want it banned.

[Draft]

[T-Short]

[Brehvolution]

rappers as roles models and parents that allow it

drugs

[Bocsius]

The sooner people understand that marijuana is on the same level as alcohol and cigarettes, the less criminal charges people will have.

Thanks for the reminder to try to reenact prohibition once I become emperor.

[Cormacaroni]

Going about as well as the war on terror, really. Net results: More drugs, more terror. Instead of buying dope from hippies, we now buy crack and meth from AK-47-wielding 12 yr olds. Instead of being bombed by Al-Qaeda, we get into endless unwinnable wars in the middle east that do far greater social and economic damage.

(and by 'we' i mean you lot in America)

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Albert Einstein had some nice thoughts on prohibition.

"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

He's not really that smart tho so w/e

[Boogie]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html


Something needs to be done about police officers. They commit horrible crimes and often get no punishment because the police think they are better than everyone else.

Generalize much?

They should have to sign some sort of document agreeing to double/triple/quadruple the penalty they get for every crime they commit or something.

    Suure, explain the logic behind that one.

The police officers shot a man who came at them with a gun?  I might have shot the old bugger too.

If you're facing a man with a gun, you don't wait for him to POINT IT AT YOU.  Because by then, YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD.  The article's slim on the details, but some of you fuckers (see below), are calling for the execution of these officers?!

Those police should be executed by lethal injection.

And fuck you too.  They defended themselves.  Yeah, it's a tragedy, but the poor fucker shouldn't have tried to take the law into his own goddamned hands.  The problem in the scenario in the opening of the article is more the US gun culture and hard-on for vigilantism.

[brawndolicious]

^completely agree.  There might be problems with some drug laws but those officers were doing their job as well as anybody can and should be expected to.

[T234]

There oughta be a system of telling people if you're a police officer or not BEFORE shooting somebody like this.

That being said, I don't believe in "warning shots" or telling people twice to get off my lawn.

[brawndolicious]

The problem is that you absolutely have to see this as being somebody's fault.  What do you think the officers should be expected to do in that situation?

[brawndolicious]

So they should have moved 10 feet and then shot the guy?  Probably one of the first things they go over when teaching you how to use your gun is when it's justifiable to shoot somebody.  If somebody is brandishing a gun at you, there's no good reason to hesitate even if you know that you're on his lawn and that he's an old man.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Albert Einstein had some nice thoughts on prohibition.

"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

He's not really that smart tho so w/e

he was also a filthy commie

[Eric P]

Albert Einstein had some nice thoughts on prohibition.

"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

He's not really that smart tho so w/e

he was also a filthy commie

and a jew!

[brawndolicious]

I thought he was an atheist?

[Herr Mafflard]

So they should have moved 10 feet and then shot the guy?  Probably one of the first things they go over when teaching you how to use your gun is when it's justifiable to shoot somebody.  If somebody is brandishing a gun at you, there's no good reason to hesitate even if you know that you're on his lawn and that he's an old man.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Man if there was only some kind of political party that constinatly talked about ending the war on drugs... Maybe some kind of liberty party?

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Man if there was only some kind of political party that constinatly talked about ending the war on drugs... Maybe some kind of liberty party?

I am against affirmative action as well.

Should I join the KKK?

[brawndolicious]

So they should have moved 10 feet and then shot the guy?  Probably one of the first things they go over when teaching you how to use your gun is when it's justifiable to shoot somebody.  If somebody is brandishing a gun at you, there's no good reason to hesitate even if you know that you're on his lawn and that he's an old man.

You are a fucking idiot. They should have just left altogether. Not everything is a dick-measuring contest.

I am not measuring my penis but I'm saying that cops should be trained not to think about the moral consequences in specific life or death situations.  They should not hesitate when somebody walks towards them with a gun.  There's a very good chance that that hesitation could cause them to die in situations where an actual criminal is about to shoot them.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Man if there was only some kind of political party that constinatly talked about ending the war on drugs... Maybe some kind of liberty party?

I am against affirmative action as well.

Should I join the KKK?

Liberals would say yes.

[max_cool]

So they should have moved 10 feet and then shot the guy?  Probably one of the first things they go over when teaching you how to use your gun is when it's justifiable to shoot somebody.  If somebody is brandishing a gun at you, there's no good reason to hesitate even if you know that you're on his lawn and that he's an old man.

You are a fucking idiot. They should have just left altogether. Not everything is a dick-measuring contest.

I am not measuring my penis but I'm saying that cops should be trained not to think about the moral consequences in specific life or death situations.  They should not hesitate when somebody walks towards them with a gun.  There's a very good chance that that hesitation could cause them to die in situations where an actual criminal is about to shoot them.

Yet, obviously there is a good chance they will murder an innocent civilian. Maybe cops shouldn't be on a private citizen's property without either being in uniform on official business, or asking permission first. This isn't fucking marshal law. They have as much right to be on his property as anyone else, which is none.

[Boogie]

Boogie and am nintenho, you guys are ridiculous.

You're the ridiculous one

These officers shot an 80 year old man on his own property because he approached them with a gun while they were dressed up as and acting like drug dealers on his lawn.

Is it a fucking tragedy?  OF COURSE IT IS.  That doesn't FUCKING MEAN that those officers deserve to be EXECUTED like you called for!

All these officers seem to be guilty of is choosing a stupid place to do an undercover op.  But again, the old man confronted them with a gun.  And there's FAR too little information available for you to be calling for their FUCKING HEADS.  At the very least, one can imagine this old man brandishing the gun, and "requesting" that they leave while pointing it at them.

Police have a gun pointed at them = dude gets shot.  And I'll defend that to the end of fucking time.

The problem is that you absolutely have to see this as being somebody's fault.  What do you think the officers should be expected to do in that situation?

Leave the property.

You say that like it's so simple.  You (nor I) know the exact facts of what happened.  If grandpa just came out of the front door, gun in hand, pointed at the officers, shouting "You fucks get off my lawn right now or you're dead", the officers don't have the time to sit there and think about how they should react, and then calmly leave the scene.

Your willingness to condemn these officers given such limited information (and that information that is given, ie. the old dude had a gun, tending to mitigate the officers' actions) is what is fucking ridiculous here.

And it may be just me, but I REALLY don't want any cop patrolling my streets who would say stuff like "there's no good reason to hesitate." You're not actually a cop, right? They kicked you out for flubbing the psych evaluation, right?

Hesitate when a gun is pointed at you, and you'll probably end up dead.

am nintenho is at least able to try and nderstand the officers' situation.

Yet, obviously there is a good chance they will murder an innocent civilian. Maybe cops shouldn't be on a private citizen's property without either being in uniform on official business, or asking permission first. This isn't fucking marshal law. They have as much right to be on his property as anyone else, which is none.

Maybe they shouldn't have been on his property.  (In point of fact, that's probably more than a "maybe" at this point).  On the other hand, undercover operations, by their very nature, tend to require police to "pretend" to break the law. (They are trying to pretend to buy and/or sell drugs, after all)

[Diunx]

I smell bacon in this thread!

[max_cool]

I can understand that trained instinct (as odd as that sounds) overrides other actions. It's just that this could have been prevented by talking to the owner for 30 seconds. I wouldn't condemn these officers, however, the person organizing the whole sting (is that the right word) should either be demoted or maybe even fired for the utterly poor execution.

[Boogie]

Bottom line for me is that it was downright negligent for them to be on his property doing an under cover op without his knowledge,

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "negligent".  I'm just settling for "stupid" at the moment.  Even though I'm a police officer, I'm not very familiar with some of the demands of undercover operations, let alone the differences in police operations between Canada and the United States.

and to then shoot him for exercising his right to defend his property? Certainly they shouldn't have been completely cleared of wrong doing. At least a slap on the wrist to save face with the public.

Well, IMO, Americans take "the right to defend his property" a *little* too far.  I don't think you should have the right to shoot someone who's loitering on your lawn, which seems to be where this 80-year old man might have taken the situation...

I smell bacon in this thread!

oink oink, baby...

I can understand that trained instinct (as odd as that sounds) overrides other actions. It's just that this could have been prevented by talking to the owner for 30 seconds.

Ya, there may have been a failure of communication here.  And then again, sometimes there's not much room for communication when confronted with a man with a gun.

I wouldn't condemn these officers, however, the person organizing the whole sting (is that the right word) should either be demoted or maybe even fired for the utterly poor execution.

Yes.  This must be emphasized as well.  It is impossible to know the specifics, but it is possible that these undercover officers were following the direction of a superior in regards to the specifics of the operation, in which case they could hardly be faulted for being on the man's property in the first place.  Or they could have been there of their own initiative.  Impossible to know...   (but if it's impossible to know, it's also impossible to call for their execution based on the lack of information, Shinobi...)


In any event, this thread is getting sidetracked.  A more general debate on the "War on Drugs" would seem to me to be far more interesting than arguing about a specific situation in the OP's article, in which the police officer's CLEARLY do not deserve to be " executed by lethal injection. "