Author Topic: Is this murder?  (Read 1117 times)

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ToxicAdam

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Is this murder?
« on: February 05, 2009, 09:09:53 PM »
http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

First off, FLOLrida

Quote
Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.


What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.

"I don't care what your politics are, what your morals are, this should not be happening in our community," said Tom Pennekamp, a Miami attorney representing Williams in her lawsuit against Renelique (ren-uh-LEEK') and the clinic owners.

The state Board of Medicine is to hear Renelique's case in Tampa on Friday and determine whether to strip his license. The state attorney's homicide division is investigating, though no charges have been filed. Terry Chavez, a spokeswoman with the Miami-Dade County State Attorney's Office, said this week that prosecutors were nearing a decision.

Renelique's attorney, Joseph Harrison, called the allegations at best "misguided and incomplete" in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He didn't provide details.

The case has riled the anti-abortion community, which contends the clinic's actions constitute murder.

"The baby was just treated as a piece of garbage," said Tom Brejcha, president of The Thomas More Society, a law firm that is also representing Williams. "People all over the country are just aghast."

Even those who support abortion rights are concerned about the allegations.

"It really disturbed me," said Joanne Sterner, president of the Broward County chapter of the National Organization for Women, after reviewing the administrative complaint against Renelique. "I know that there are clinics out there like this. And I hope that we can keep (women) from going to these types of clinics."

According to state records, Renelique received his medical training at the State University of Haiti. In 1991, he completed a four-year residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Interfaith Medical Center in New York.

New York records show that Renelique has made at least five medical malpractice payments in the past decade, the circumstances of which were not detailed in the filings.

Several attempts to reach Renelique were unsuccessful. Some of his office numbers were disconnected, no home number could be found and he did not return messages left with his attorney.

Williams struggled with the decision to have an abortion, Pennekamp said. She declined an interview request made through him.

She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child, he said, and went to the Miramar Women's Center on July 17, 2006. Sonograms indicated she was 23 weeks pregnant, according to the Department of Health. She met Renelique at a second clinic two days later.

Renelique gave Williams laminaria, a drug that dilates the cervix, and prescribed three other medications, according to the administrative complaint filed by the Health Department. She was told to go to yet another clinic, A Gyn Diagnostic Center in Hialeah, where the procedure would be performed the next day, on July 20, 2006.

Williams arrived in the morning and was given more medication.

The Department of Health account continues as follows: Just before noon she began to feel ill. The clinic contacted Renelique. Two hours later, he still hadn't shown up. Williams went into labor and delivered the baby.

"She came face to face with a human being," Pennekamp said. "And that changed everything."

The complaint says one of the clinic owners, Belkis Gonzalez came in and cut the umbilical cord with scissors, then placed the baby in a plastic bag, and the bag in a trash can.

Williams' lawsuit offers a cruder account: She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

No working telephone number could be found for Gonzalez, and an attorney who has represented the clinic in the past did not return a message.

At 23 weeks, an otherwise healthy fetus would have a slim but legitimate chance of survival. Quadruplets born at 23 weeks last year at The Nebraska Medical Center survived.

An autopsy determined Williams' baby - she named her Shanice - had filled her lungs with air, meaning she had been born alive, according to the Department of Health. The cause of death was listed as extreme prematurity.

The Department of Health believes Renelique committed malpractice by failing to ensure that licensed personnel would be present when Williams was there, among other missteps.

The department wants the Board of Medicine, a separate agency, to permanently revoke Renelique's license, among other penalties. His license is currently restricted, permitting him to only perform abortions when another licensed physician is present and can review his medical records.

Should prosecutors file murder charges, they'd have to prove the baby was born alive, said Robert Batey, a professor of criminal law at Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport. The defense might contend that the child would have died anyway, but most courts would not allow that argument, he said.

"Hastening the death of an individual who is terminally ill is still considered causing the death of that individual," Batey said. "And I think a court would rule similarly in this type of case."



You think they could have called the local childrens hospital, saved the baby and then put it up for adoption.



The Fake Shemp

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 09:12:14 PM »
Fucking Florida.
PSP

Brehvolution

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 09:12:23 PM »
 :yuck

But I'm in a catch 22 since she had the baby and I'm pro choice(freedom).
©ZH

Diunx

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 09:15:17 PM »
Is the baby was alive they should have put it up for adoption not trow it in the fucking trash.
Drunk

CajoleJuice

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 09:15:28 PM »
that's fucking horrible

holy shit

this is like that always sunny episode

only not funny
AMC

ToxicAdam

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 09:16:48 PM »
I explained the story to my wife and she said that the 18 year old girl should be charged with manslaughter too (because she let the baby get thrown away). I don't agree with that at all.

TVC15

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 09:20:22 PM »
I think you should basically be able to do this to kids up till age 21 or so.
serge

ToxicAdam

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 09:20:29 PM »
Drugs or no drugs, the girl was only 18 and probably freaked out of her mind. I'm divorcing my wife, she's a monster.

Plus, it reads like the 18 year old girl is the one who blew the whistle here.

 

TakingBackSunday

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 09:20:39 PM »
ugh

ugh that is just fucking horrible
püp

ToxicAdam

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 09:22:04 PM »
This would be a good topic on GAF. (OMG 4 pages of JayDubya opinion!) Someone post it.



Propagandhim

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 09:22:45 PM »
I have bad reading comprehension.  The girl getting the abortion is angry at the doctor clinic owner for throwing her live baby out?  Is that right?

edit: ok
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 09:25:19 PM by Propagandhim »

Crushed

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 09:24:18 PM »
Holy shit. That's terrible.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sure there will be some people on Free Republic or Hannity Forums screaming that this is what Obama will do to all babies, etc.
[close]
wtc

Bildi

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 09:37:56 PM »
Yeah I'm pro, but the bitch should hang 'til her feet stop twitchin'.

Bildi

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 09:44:36 PM »
I just noticed her name is Sycloria.  :-X

If that's not the name of a venereal disease, I'm sure it just hasn't been discovered yet.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 09:45:24 PM »
Sycloria sounds like a black name so I doubt Hannity will shed a tear
🍆🍆

Crushed

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 09:49:41 PM »
Sycloria sounds like a black name so I doubt Hannity will shed a tear

"This is what the typical Obama supporting black person does!"
wtc

demi

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »
lol florida
fat

Bildi

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 09:51:46 PM »
Seriously Kosma, I can't believe you didn't go to the clinic with the poor girl.

Crushed

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 09:53:53 PM »
Seriously Kosma, I can't believe you didn't go to the clinic with the poor girl.

After DNA analysis of the remains, the "baby" was later found to be a rabbit.
wtc

Cormacaroni

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 10:08:46 PM »
Anybody NOT think this is murder?

...i think we're done here.
vjj

Cheebs

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 10:16:22 PM »
As a pro-choice guy, yeah that is totally murder. Although I have a feeling pro-lifers are going to use this as "proof" for their cause for years and years ugh.

Eric P

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 10:21:50 PM »
incredibly fucked up
Tonya

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 11:01:00 PM »
why is it even a question of whether it's murder. she killed an infant
010

xnikki118x

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 11:33:00 PM »
I'm pro-choice, but that was murder.

The baby had such a slim chance of survival. It probably would have died on its own, but it deserved that chance. =/
:-*

brawndolicious

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 02:48:14 AM »
You guys need to read.  The woman getting the abortion is suing the clinic's owner.  I'm guessing she was knocked out during the procedure (it was a large fetus) and later she was told or found out that the fetus was born and thrown away during the operation.  I just hope the baby wasn't born alive.  It's obviously a horrible way for it to die and of course going to set back abortion rights.

Bildi

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 03:06:09 AM »
According to the article, it seems she was awake, saw the baby get delivered, and saw it placed in the bag.  And the baby was alive when it was delivered.

So yeah, it probably died in the bag.

Fresh Prince

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 03:09:06 AM »
Sycloria sounds like a black name so I doubt Hannity will shed a tear
and a French doctor. *smh* *smh*
888

T234

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Re: Is this murder?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 04:14:53 AM »
You guys need to read.  The woman getting the abortion is suing the clinic's owner.  I'm guessing she was knocked out during the procedure (it was a large fetus) and later she was told or found out that the fetus was born and thrown away during the operation.  I just hope the baby wasn't born alive.  It's obviously a horrible way for it to die and of course going to set back abortion rights.

oh god
UK