Author Topic: On a Roll today. Cafferty: Stimulus is Sorry Spectacle (Read 5430 times)

Ganhyun · « **on:** February 17, 2009, 03:28:27 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/cafferty.stimulus/index.html

I know this guy is known for being outspoken. He takes potshots at Harry Reid, Pelosi, and Obama in this article.

So, you guys agree with him? Disagree? Mupepe?

From the article:

Quote

I don't care if you're Evelyn Wood, you can't read almost 1,100 pages of the lawyer talk that makes up all legislation in eight or 10 hours.

ShogunOfFear · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:29:59 PM »

WOW Cafferty actually has a set of balls after all.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:41:45 PM »

so basically he says "tl;dr am i rite? lolbama."

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:42:55 PM »

Ganhyun grasping yet again.

Cafferty isn't bad, but like prole said, he's complaining about the length of it. Big fucking deal.

Ganhyun · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:45:56 PM »

Quote from: BrandNew on February 17, 2009, 03:42:55 PM

Ganhyun grasping yet again.

Cafferty isn't bad, but like prole said, he's complaining about the length of it. Big fucking deal.

Nice Spin.

He complains about:

1. Failed promise to post entire bill 48 hours before vote.
a. Goes off on Reid and Pelosi.
b. goes off on Congress in general

2. Contents of Stimulus
a. Things that won't help economy via jobs
b . various other things he disliked

Edit: Stupid post posted when I hit the list option.

Eric P · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:50:12 PM »

i think that backtracking on something as simple as letting it be public for 48 hours before it was voted on is a bit unfortunate. i can think of reasons why they did this but that doesn't make my like it anymore.

ferrarimanf355 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM »

I'm hearing that General Motors will hold a press conference at about 6 PM. It's widely believed that they'll announce a chapter 11 filing.

Ganhyun · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:58:57 PM »

Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM

I'm hearing that General Motors will hold a press conference at about 6 PM. It's widely believed that they'll announce a chapter 11 filing.

Yea, I heard that too.

Cheebs · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:06:20 PM »

The BU BU BU BU WE DIDNT HAVE TIME TO READ IT thing is complete bullshit.

The final bill was a mix of the senate and house bills, of which were around over a fucking week before the vote. It wasn't a magical pile of 1,000 new pages of material.

ferrarimanf355 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:10:48 PM »

Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 03:58:57 PM

Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
I'm hearing that General Motors will hold a press conference at about 6 PM. It's widely believed that they'll announce a chapter 11 filing.

Yea, I heard that too.

If that happens, I fear for what will happen to the performance side of GM. Has Speaker Pelosi ever rode shotgun in a Camaro? I doubt it, she's probably taking the Greenpeace position that all cars are teh evil.

Sad thing is, GM might take down Ford, too. Chrysler's a goner anyways...

Cheebs · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:11:36 PM »

Oh and if they think the page length mattered to the votes then...

No GOP house votes would have voted for it if it was 10 pages or 10 thousand. Republicans want the economy to fail so they can blame it on Obama.

Arlen Specter said there were a lot of Republicans in congress who wanted to support the bill and secretly supported it but didn't for purely political reasons.

Gotta love the GOP!

Ganhyun · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:18:37 PM »

Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 04:10:48 PM

Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
I'm hearing that General Motors will hold a press conference at about 6 PM. It's widely believed that they'll announce a chapter 11 filing.

Yea, I heard that too.
If that happens, I fear for what will happen to the performance side of GM. Has Speaker Pelosi ever rode shotgun in a Camaro? I doubt it, she's probably taking the Greenpeace position that all cars are teh evil.

Sad thing is, GM might take down Ford, too. Chrysler's a goner anyways...

A friend told me that he heard (not sure if this is true, if you guys know verify plz) that alot of the same plants make the parts for both GM and Ford. So if GM goes down too hard this could be how Ford gets hit.

Quote from: Cheebs on February 17, 2009, 04:11:36 PM

No GOP house votes would have voted for it if it was 10 pages or 10 thousand. Republicans want the economy to fail so they can blame it on Obama.

Arlen Specter said there were a lot of Republicans in congress who wanted to support the bill and secretly supported it but didn't for purely political reasons.

Gotta love the GOP!

If this could be proven, well, there would be alot less GOP in Congress.

Ganhyun · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:22:59 PM »

Quote from: Genghis Cohen on February 17, 2009, 04:21:42 PM

Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: ferrarimanf355 on February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
I'm hearing that General Motors will hold a press conference at about 6 PM. It's widely believed that they'll announce a chapter 11 filing.

Yea, I heard that too.
If that happens, I fear for what will happen to the performance side of GM. Has Speaker Pelosi ever rode shotgun in a Camaro? I doubt it, she's probably taking the Greenpeace position that all cars are teh evil.

Sad thing is, GM might take down Ford, too. Chrysler's a goner anyways...

A friend told me that he heard (not sure if this is true, if you guys know verify plz) that alot of the same plants make the parts for both GM and Ford. So if GM goes down too hard this could be how Ford gets hit.

The supply chain in automobiles is huge and interconnected. Honda, Toyota, VW etc. all get hurt if GM goes under.

Seriously sucks.

Cheebs · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:24:45 PM »

Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 04:18:37 PM

If this could be proven, well, there would be alot less GOP in Congress.

Senator Specter said it, I take him at his word. He is a pretty level-headed Republican.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:24:49 PM »

Quote from: Ganhyun on February 17, 2009, 04:18:37 PM

Quote from: Cheebs on February 17, 2009, 04:11:36 PM
No GOP house votes would have voted for it if it was 10 pages or 10 thousand. Republicans want the economy to fail so they can blame it on Obama.

Arlen Specter said there were a lot of Republicans in congress who wanted to support the bill and secretly supported it but didn't for purely political reasons.

Gotta love the GOP!

If this could be proven, well, there would be alot less GOP in Congress.

We're working on it, it's just taking time.

ferrarimanf355 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:10:26 PM »

Chrysler says they need another $5 billion or another 3,000 jobs will be cut.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM »

Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:20:52 PM »

Quote from: Genghis Cohen on February 17, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: The Card Cheat on February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.

The government really needs to to enforce a breakup of GM right now into respective brands if they take anymore money.

Either that or just compress them. I mean shit, the problem is that not enough people are buying shit right now right? Why continue producing all of this supply when there's not enough demand.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:33:43 PM »

gm's big problem is the ten zillion redundant dealerships they own, and the fact that they stock each lot with twice the cars of other brand dealerships -- the overhead is insane. they need to close 3K dealerships at LEAST, and halve inventory NOW.

mulally and ford

ferrarimanf355 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:37:01 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on February 17, 2009, 05:33:43 PM

gm's big problem is the ten zillion redundant dealerships they own, and the fact that they stock each lot with twice the cars of other brand dealerships -- the overhead is insane. they need to close 3K dealerships at LEAST, and halve inventory NOW.

mulally and ford

The news broke out on Jalopnik.

Saab will be sold if the Swedish government ponies up $$$.
Saturn dead by 2011.
Pontiac mostly dead- just one or two models in a few years, likely the G8 and Solstice. Both of those models won't be given replacements, so Pontiac is dead.
Nothing on the other international operations- Opel/Vauxhall, Holden, GM Daewoo.
I'm too lazy to comb through this PDF and find the fate of Hummer, so I asked GM on their twitter.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:41:43 PM »

What's so bad/good about the Stimulus? I'm basically looking for Stimulus for dummies. Since this passed should I expect an extra $300 in the future like last year?

Cheebs · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:46:11 PM »

Quote from: MyNameIsMud on February 17, 2009, 06:41:43 PM

What's so bad/good about the Stimulus? I'm basically looking for Stimulus for dummies. Since this passed should I expect an extra $300 in the future like last year?

www.recovery.gov has everything you could ever imagine about this on it

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:51:16 PM »

I do think bills should be small enough and high-level enough for the people deciding on them to actually read. My understanding is this is pretty much par for the course though, but that just shows our legal system is kinda broken.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:53:37 PM »

I hate that theres no support for people who are enterring the job market. Can't file for unemployment, and can't find a job. WTF should I do?

Cheebs · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2009, 07:12:56 PM »

Quote from: Genghis Cohen on February 17, 2009, 06:55:18 PM

Well the auto bailout deal is out, and between it and eastern europe this week, we're FUCKED

Well, Obama is going to Canada later this week. That is uh something.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2009, 07:24:06 PM »

If you've already filed your taxes this year does that mean your fucked now of getting any extra moolha?

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2009, 07:59:47 PM »

Cafferty

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:00:37 PM »

Quote from: MyNameIsMud on February 17, 2009, 06:53:37 PM

I hate that theres no support for people who are enterring the job market. Can't file for unemployment, and can't find a job. WTF should I do?

Suck my cock

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:05:04 PM »

Been there done that

Cheebs · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:41:05 PM »

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on February 17, 2009, 07:59:47 PM

Cafferty

You realize Cafferty mocked Ron Paul before, right?

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:46:25 PM »

I don't watch much CNN but the times I have seen Cafferty, he's always been right and I know some of you have praised him in the past.

So I guess now I'm supposed to hate him because of today? Pass on that stupid shit.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:55:20 PM »

My tinfoil hat says the original "loan" given to automakers were to pay off debts to "friends" of congressmen. Therefore, when bankruptcy set it, it would only hurt the competitors of these "friends".

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:59:14 PM »

My tinfoil hat says that the automakers were in deeper than $25 billion collectively (or whatever) and knew that if they were to get any kind of bailout money, they could ask for more, and get it.

Kind of a "Gotcha bitch!" situation. Now we're probably going to pay $100 billion or some shit overall. With the way we're throwing money around these days, why not just give them $200 billion. The CEOs can save the company and still give themselves fat bonuses.

Cheebs · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:05:48 PM »

Quote from: T EXP on February 17, 2009, 08:46:25 PM

I don't watch much CNN but the times I have seen Cafferty, he's always been right and I know some of you have praised him in the past.

So I guess now I'm supposed to hate him because of today? Pass on that stupid shit.

The article/topic is misleading.

Cafferty IS almost always right, and he isnt against the stimulus. Far from it. He thinks its not enough. He is against how it was done but just last week claimed the stimulus package wasn't spending ENOUGH money and should have been on Obama's desk sooner.

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:09:53 PM »

Gotcha

His old and cynical worldview is one I'd like to have when I get to be his age

Cheebs · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:11:05 PM »

Quote from: T EXP on February 17, 2009, 09:09:53 PM

Gotcha

His old and cynical worldview is one I'd like to have when I get to be his age

Same, great guy. His wife died like a month ago.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:26:55 PM »

Quote

Far from being only about jobs, infrastructure and tax cuts as promised, the stimulus bill stimulates a bunch of other stuff as well. Eight billion dollars for high-speed rail lines

uhhhhhh how is high-speed rail not infrastructure? gtfo. bring on the supertrains.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #37 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:51:42 PM »

Quote from: The Card Cheat on February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM

Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.

Dealers clamor for product to sell.

Also there are only so many classes of vehicle in existence and most of their brands appeal to different demographics.

People said that when they killed Oldsmobile all of its remaining buyers would switch over to very-similar Buicks. They didn't.

Quote from: Genghis Cohen on February 17, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: The Card Cheat on February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.
The government really needs to to enforce a breakup of GM right now into respective brands if they take anymore money.

Their product sharing is the only thing that has kept them afloat this long. It is far too expensive for 8 small companies to each make a competing vehicle. This is why Chrysler is fucked without a global partner.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:52:50 PM »

Being an employee of a train station, I welcome our new train connoisseur overlords.

Bring back slaves.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:56:01 PM »

Quote from: The Card Cheat on February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM

Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.

Dealers clamor for product to sell.

Also there are only so many classes of vehicle in existence and most of their brands appeal to different demographics.

People said that when they killed Oldsmobile all of its remaining buyers would switch over to very-similar Buicks. They didn't.

Quote from: Genghis Cohen on February 17, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: The Card Cheat on February 17, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
Honestly, if it weren't all 2 GREAT 2 DEPRESSING right now I would say fuck GM. They have a shiiiiiity business model- why have so many damn makes and models of what is essentially the same shitty car? How many roughly equivalent small, midsize and large sedans do you fucking need? This pisses me off more than the SUV thing. I get that- there's demand so they're gonna supply it. But the dumbness I don't get.
The government really needs to to enforce a breakup of GM right now into respective brands if they take anymore money.

Their product sharing is the only thing that has kept them afloat this long. It is far too expensive for 8 small companies to each make a competing vehicle. This is why Chrysler is fucked without a global partner.

Anyway, you guys got your wish, GM only has 4 brands now. It should have come a long time ago but then the news headlines would read GM DESTROYING MIDDLE AMERICA BY SLASHING BRANDS/DEALERSHIPS/FACTORIES. This was a long time coming.

Saturn, Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, dead. 6500 dealerships become 4100 dealerships.

Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, GMC remain. 36 total vehicles on sale instead of ~70. I think it is a solid plan.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:56:30 PM »

Now hopefully they'll shut down Escalade.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #41 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:57:27 PM »

Quote from: MyNameIsMud on February 17, 2009, 09:56:30 PM

Now hopefully they'll shut down Escalade.

Yes, let's kill one of their highest-margin products.

More likely it'll switch to the Lambda platform like the Enclave and get 24mpg (or more, by then).

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #42 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:58:11 PM »

Escalade is a luxury though. You don't need them.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #43 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:59:12 PM »

When do we get to upgrade to a depression anyways?

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #44 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:59:57 PM »

Luxury cars are high margin dude.

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #45 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:02:59 PM »

Yep. The amount of SUVs sold may go down but since they bring in a high margin, they won't get rid of it.

A complete re-organization is what the auto industry needs. Breaking it down to several small manufacturers isn't good because that is what happened all these previous decades. Quite a bit of them went bankrupt and the remaining ones pretty much merged. You don't see anyone driving a Hudson car these days, for example.

ToxicAdam · « **Reply #46 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:03:31 PM »

My brother is a big time buyer for Johnson Controls and they deal a lot with the auto industry. He tells me that the biggest problem during economic downturns are the old union contracts. These guys get paid 80-90% of their wages when they are laid off ... so it's actually CHEAPER to idle/close down the plants that are more efficient with younger workers (less labor cost per auto). It's an upside down world.

Also, he said that the UAW forced GM into agreeing to only buy parts from union shops which have also caused the profit margins to shrink over the past 5 years.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #47 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:04:32 PM »

If anything we are moving towards 6-7 super companies like the Hyundai CEO described.

You cannot compete in this industry without economies of scale. The only remaining independent manufacturers are BMW and Porsche. And Porsche just bought Volkswagen/Audi/Lamborghini/Bentley. So BMW(/Rolls/Mini).

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #48 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:04:35 PM »

Bring back tank cars. I still think that was the stupidest thing to ever do. "Hey let's kill more people by making cars without the ability to kill mooses". Dumb fucks. Smh

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #49 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:12:11 PM »

Quote from: Cheebs on February 17, 2009, 08:41:05 PM

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on February 17, 2009, 07:59:47 PM
Cafferty
You realize Cafferty mocked Ron Paul before, right?

He did? From what I remember most of his views were cynical enough to fall in line with Ron Paul.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #50 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:15:30 PM »

Quote from: ToxicAdam on February 17, 2009, 10:03:31 PM

My brother is a big time buyer for Johnson Controls and they deal a lot with the auto industry. He tells me that the biggest problem during economic downturns are the old union contracts. These guys get paid 80-90% of their wages when they are laid off ... so it's actually CHEAPER to idle/close down the plants that are more efficient with younger workers (less labor cost per auto). It's an upside down world.

Also, he said that the UAW forced GM into agreeing to only buy parts from union shops which have also caused the profit margins to shrink over the past 5 years.

Unions: the diarrhea of america.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #51 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:15:34 PM »

Ron paul isn't even remotely cynical. Ron paul is a pie-eyed mooncalf; he's a gold-swaddled babe in the woods.

Cheebs · « **Reply #52 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:17:42 PM »

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on February 17, 2009, 10:12:11 PM

Quote from: Cheebs on February 17, 2009, 08:41:05 PM
Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on February 17, 2009, 07:59:47 PM
Cafferty
You realize Cafferty mocked Ron Paul before, right?

He did? From what I remember most of his views were cynical enough to fall in line with Ron Paul.

You didn't watch CNN at ALL during the election I take it. Cafferty is a big govt. type of guy. Like I said just last week he claimed the Obama stimulus package didn't have enough govt. spending to fix the economy.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:20:28 PM »

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:22:52 PM »

Foc shattered like a brasil nut between ayn rand's vice-like jaws

siamesedreamer · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:36:35 PM »

Anyone else notice the pattern?

Inauguration -332
Geithner no plan -382
Stimulus passing -82
Stimulus signing -297

That's -1093 on arguably the four biggest days so far for the new administration. Tomorrow there is supposed to be a huge announcement about a foreclosure plan. Will we go 5-5?

siamesedreamer · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:46:43 PM »

Lots of stuff happens everyday. But, yeah eastern Europe is collapsing before our eyes. I've read they have to roll over some $400B in short term debt over the next month or so. Western Europe supposedly has a lot of exposure there. Scary stuff.

Just pointing out the market pattern with the new administration so far. Wasn't necessarily blaming them. No biggie.

Cheebs · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:49:40 PM »

The market has been going down nearly every single day for a while now, no matter what goes on in DC on a given day. Obama is not the cause of it, the crash happened long before he was in power.

siamesedreamer · « **Reply #58 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:52:04 PM »

Finally found a chart I've been looking for for a while now:

They had a big 60 Minutes story on this back in December.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #59 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:53:30 PM »

I do think Obama is the cause of higher gas prices.

What are we at for percentage in unemployed?

News:

Author Topic: On a Roll today. Cafferty: Stimulus is Sorry Spectacle (Read 5430 times)