Author Topic: oh dear god (economics related)  (Read 8124 times)

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Van Cruncheon

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2009, 01:08:53 AM »
poor hobbes

his successors carry his torch only in the special olympics of the internet
duc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2009, 01:09:42 AM »
Quote
the half that says i will pay you whatever you collectively demand not to take my large amount of stuff from me
So we basically live in the mafia. And that is how it should be?

no, we should live in a magickal land of ponies and chocolate and good sonic the hedgehog games

fuck reality and human nature, am i rite :smug
duc

Barry Egan

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2009, 01:10:25 AM »


Oh wait...he can't do it, because society is protecting those rich people that Triumph would like to fuck in the street.  How interesting.

b-b-b-but its inevitable as he said earlier.

It's about as inevitable as the heroic Entrepeneur Exodus that we ressentiment filled poors are so anxiously dreading.  Neither will happen, because both parties are implicitly aware that social compromise trumps foraging in the wilderness.  

Barry Egan

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2009, 01:14:23 AM »
Where the fuck are the wealthy members of society actually going to go when they feel their liberties have been sufficiently trampled?  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Mandark

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2009, 01:18:15 AM »
The other part is that wealth is recognized by society.  I can claim all the oil in Texas, but if everyone's decided to abide by the power structure that we call the United States of America, they're going to give a wee bit more credence to the gubmint's opinion of who owns it than to mine.
Are you suggesting that it is okay for an outside party to steal from you? Or is your claim of oil false?

I'm saying that ownership, and by extension theft, are social constructs.  This doesn't mean they aren't real or important factors in daily life, just that they are underpinned by a societal consensus, rather than anything physical.

If a Martian physicist with no knowledge of Earth culture examined the oil, could it determine who owned it?  Of course not.  Someone owns that oil because everybody agrees that that person owns the oil.

Private property is like a government or a language or a marriage.  They're real, but only because we say so.

So when you argue that private property should be primary among all rules, and the current owners must have their claims respected, you've got to argue from something other than nature.

After all, that oil only belongs to those people because of massive, government-sponsored, violent expropriation of property to begin with.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2009, 01:20:33 AM »
Quote
If a Martian physicist with no knowledge of Earth culture examined the oil, could it determine who owned it?

I like to imagine the pronoun there would be "she"  :interracial

Quote
Where the fuck are the wealthy members of society actually going to go when they feel their liberties have been sufficiently trampled?  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

I believe you just highlighted why Heinlein > Rand
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 01:24:06 AM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

Mandark

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2009, 01:25:13 AM »
The answer is that tennin would convince her that he owns the oil and then seduces her, securing his position as Viceroy of Earth after the invasion.  His coding prowess and acne scarring make him deadly attractive in Martian society.

FoC spends his days giving blumpkins to the alien taskmasters in the salt mines.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2009, 01:38:33 AM »
When I say "I like to imagine", I mean I'm really hoping it happens soon, since I already sold several billion dollars in oil futures contracts predicated on Mandark's prediction coming true, and the delivery date is fast approaching.
QED

Mandark

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2009, 01:43:05 AM »
I went heavily into debt to invest in tranched derivatives of tennin's contracts, insured and given an AAA rating.   :'(

ToxicAdam

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2009, 01:59:15 AM »
[To OP]

This is actually more common than you think. I often hear people lamenting about "avoiding going into the next tax bracket" when they come into a windfall of money or some other dramatic change in financial gain. Now, whether if that is someone who is just trying to maximize their profit or have a misunderstanding about our tax system, it's hard to say.



EmCeeGrammar

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2009, 02:06:38 AM »
If it meant more safety nets and services (healthcare, useful education, etc), I -a filthy 24000 income filthy poor- wouldn't mind paying more taxes.  I guess rich folks don't need the benefits because they can afford them, but whatever happened to empathy?  I give money away like a fool to needy co-workers for simple tasks because I'm not wanting for much and I get a tinge of happiness for reducing someone elses strife. 
sad

Flannel Boy

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2009, 02:23:49 AM »
Last night I saw Intervention and the 24 year-old alcoholic bitch was getting disability for "depression".  

Holy shit, how do you do that?  I'm gonna figure it out and get on that gravy train, then post about how I'm spending my gubmint monies on cheap wine and hookers to annoy you people.

She was actually spending it on Vodka.
Getting money for depression? Spending the money on vodka?

How do I get in on that?

Phoenix Dark

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Eric P

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2009, 07:00:36 AM »
Quote
No Im really not being facetious, tell me what wealth is.

bullion

those little cubes you make soup with?
Tonya

Cheebs

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2009, 08:34:35 AM »
A girl in my accounting class when we were talking about Obama's tax changes said he is a terrible president and a "socialist" because her parents make 255k a year and his tax increases are going to hurt them really badly. An ACCOUNTING major no less.

Eel O'Brian

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2009, 08:42:11 AM »
i really, really need to study up on how to work this system
sup

Human Snorenado

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2009, 09:03:45 AM »
i really, really need to study up on how to work this system

Do you have somebody do your taxes?  My dad does mine each year and does a pretty good job for someone who isn't an accountant.  This is largely due to the fact that he didn't pay taxes at all during the 80's when he was making really good money, and then when the IRS caught up to him in the early 90's he decided that he really didn't want to go to jail so he started learning how to game the system, you know, legally and shit.
yar

Brehvolution

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2009, 09:13:20 AM »
©ZH

Eel O'Brian

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2009, 09:18:13 AM »
i really, really need to study up on how to work this system

Do you have somebody do your taxes?  My dad does mine each year and does a pretty good job for someone who isn't an accountant.  This is largely due to the fact that he didn't pay taxes at all during the 80's when he was making really good money, and then when the IRS caught up to him in the early 90's he decided that he really didn't want to go to jail so he started learning how to game the system, you know, legally and shit.

my brother helps me, but sadly there is no way to escape the self-employment tax penalty i get for not punching someone else's clock
sup

Brehvolution

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2009, 10:27:12 AM »
What the hell is that pic supposed to mean?  :lol

He's laughing at you with his 12 chins.
©ZH

Fresh Prince

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2009, 04:49:48 PM »
Do you have somebody do your taxes?  My dad does mine each year and does a pretty good job for someone who isn't an accountant.  This is largely due to the fact that he didn't pay taxes at all during the 80's when he was making really good money, and then when the IRS caught up to him in the early 90's he decided that he really didn't want to go to jail so he started learning how to game the system, you know, legally and shit.
What the hell is happening? TA sounds like a socialist and TCC sounds like a Republican.
888

Bildi

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2009, 05:43:26 PM »
[To OP]

This is actually more common than you think. I often hear people lamenting about "avoiding going into the next tax bracket" when they come into a windfall of money or some other dramatic change in financial gain. Now, whether if that is someone who is just trying to maximize their profit or have a misunderstanding about our tax system, it's hard to say.

In my experience so many people are focussed on minimising tax, rather than maximising profit.  It's utterly backwards thinking and is really frustrating when people won't listen.

I had a client who was working as a contractor (and hence paying his own tax at the end of the year) and earned say $30,000.  He got an offer to be an employee (his employer would withhold tax and the balance of tax would be paid or refunded at the end of the year) and started working for say $40,000.  But when he saw his paycheque and how much tax his employer was deducting from his pay he felt he was being ripped off and even though I tried everything to make him see sense, he decided to go back and be a contractor.

Sure, he earned $10,000 less, but look at all the tax he was saving!

FUCKING. DUMB. CUNT.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2009, 05:45:07 PM »
wat
that's not even minimizing tax anyway, is it?
QED

Eel O'Brian

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2009, 05:53:45 PM »
I had a client who was working as a contractor (and hence paying his own tax at the end of the year) and earned say $30,000.  He got an offer to be an employee (his employer would withhold tax and the balance of tax would be paid or refunded at the end of the year) and started working for say $40,000.  But when he saw his paycheque and how much tax his employer was deducting from his pay he felt he was being ripped off and even though I tried everything to make him see sense, he decided to go back and be a contractor.

i'd like to meet this guy and punch him right in the nose

on the other hand, it is complete fucking bullshit that i only make (gross) 29k a year and yet have to pay a penalty over and above what other people who make 29k a year pay in, just because i am not on someone else's payroll

there is no way to make that sound the least bit "fair" to me
sup

Van Cruncheon

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2009, 06:03:27 PM »
b&o taxes are pretty unfair for most very small business folks, and it's made doubly worse because you're the only ones who actually PAY your taxes

why small businesses or sole employee businesses are taxed as the same rate as corporations boggles -- it's probably because if they changed the tax structure to consider the number of employees or the yearly revenue it would be instantly abused by corporations and the wealthy

duc

TVC15

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2009, 06:09:29 PM »
Last night I saw Intervention and the 24 year-old alcoholic bitch was getting disability for "depression".  

Holy shit, how do you do that?  I'm gonna figure it out and get on that gravy train, then post about how I'm spending my gubmint monies on cheap wine and hookers to annoy you people.

She was actually spending it on Vodka.
Getting money for depression? Spending the money on vodka?

How do I get in on that?

You'd need a dignosis of something more than major depression, since it's not technically chronic.  Maybe the personality disorder type of depression.  Definitely psychotic depression, which you could probably naturally manifest if you drink enough.  Just get me a PhD and I will give you your diagnosis.
serge

Bildi

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2009, 06:14:00 PM »
on the other hand, it is complete fucking bullshit that i only make (gross) 29k a year and yet have to pay a penalty over and above what other people who make 29k a year pay in, just because i am not on someone else's payroll

there is no way to make that sound the least bit "fair" to me

I'm not familiar with the US tax system - you work for yourself and have to pay more tax than an employee who earns the same amount?

Dickie Dee

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2009, 06:16:36 PM »
Last night I saw Intervention and the 24 year-old alcoholic bitch was getting disability for "depression".  

Holy shit, how do you do that?  I'm gonna figure it out and get on that gravy train, then post about how I'm spending my gubmint monies on cheap wine and hookers to annoy you people.

She was actually spending it on Vodka.
Getting money for depression? Spending the money on vodka?

How do I get in on that?

You'd need a dignosis of something more than major depression, since it's not technically chronic.  Maybe the personality disorder type of depression.  Definitely psychotic depression, which you could probably naturally manifest if you drink enough.  Just get me a PhD and I will give you your diagnosis.
How many points are we talking?
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2009, 06:17:11 PM »
on the other hand, it is complete fucking bullshit that i only make (gross) 29k a year and yet have to pay a penalty over and above what other people who make 29k a year pay in, just because i am not on someone else's payroll

there is no way to make that sound the least bit "fair" to me

I'm not familiar with the US tax system - you work for yourself and have to pay more tax than an employee who earns the same amount?

self-employment tax, yes
sup

Bildi

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2009, 06:20:24 PM »
self-employment tax, yes

The fuck?

Yeah, that makes no sense to me - I can't see the fairness at all.

TVC15

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2009, 06:20:47 PM »
Last night I saw Intervention and the 24 year-old alcoholic bitch was getting disability for "depression".  

Holy shit, how do you do that?  I'm gonna figure it out and get on that gravy train, then post about how I'm spending my gubmint monies on cheap wine and hookers to annoy you people.

She was actually spending it on Vodka.
Getting money for depression? Spending the money on vodka?

How do I get in on that?

You'd need a dignosis of something more than major depression, since it's not technically chronic.  Maybe the personality disorder type of depression.  Definitely psychotic depression, which you could probably naturally manifest if you drink enough.  Just get me a PhD and I will give you your diagnosis.
How many points are we talking?

Actually, I found this at a site about milking the teat of free shit:

Quote
the social security administration focuses on the functional limitations of a condition rather than on the condition itself (in other words, how a condition affects you rather than simply being diagnosed with it)

Which means you don't even have to go for a big fancy name psychological condition.  You just have to convince them that whatever garden variety diagnosis you've got has left you absolutely useless and crippled and basically distinguished mentally-challenged.  I think I could pull this off if I had to.
serge

Human Snorenado

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2009, 06:37:00 PM »
Holy shit, I hardly ever leave the house.  I bet I could convince someone that I've got agoraphobia.
yar

TVC15

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2009, 06:38:38 PM »
You *do* need a diagnosis from someone with an MD, though (which means no non-MD therapists or even PhD psychologists--it does have to be a mental health-related PhD, though, so you're looking at psychiatrists, not general practitioners).  What the diagnosis is, though, is irrelevant, as long as you can convince your doctor and the SS review board that it incapacitates you.  You can do this!  I know you can!
serge

Flannel Boy

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Re: oh dear god (economics related)
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2009, 07:32:06 PM »
What level of incapacitation? I've learned to fake being a semi-normal human being irl. When forced to talk to someone, I think I'm pretty personable.