EB Experiments #1 : did YOU experience controller lag in KZ2?

[dcharlie]

The world asks , EB answers.

[fistfulofmetal]

uh, how can you not.
it's how the game controls

like shit.

[MCD]

haven't played it yet so will pick Certainly option.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I see someone decided to light the duckman beacon early today.

[cool breeze]

most definitely

While I did get used to it and don't really find it to be an issue anymore, I still don't prefer it to something like CoD4 360 or UT3 PS3.  The first console FPS I played on consoles since KZ2 was the Riddick demo and even that stunned me by how responsive the controls were.  I don't remember who said it, but "sluggish in that DS2 / PS2" way is pretty much the best way to describe it.  The difference between KZ2 controls and most FPS games using the Dual Shock 2 is that I was able to get used to it.

[duckman2000]

Sure. I adapted to it, which I guess is the defining difference between a cool cat like me and you lot of conservative weaklings.

[Sho Nuff]

Sure. I adapted to it, which I guess is the defining difference between a cool cat like me and you lot of conservative weaklings.

Posts like this make it all worthwhile

[demi]

If you want some more gold, read the Bionic Commando Rearmed thread where dfyb ranted on how a d-pad was more accurate than an analog stick.

[Kestastrophe]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

[duckman2000]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

Nah, it's alright to not like it. It's also totally alright to be a weakling. To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

[G The Resurrected]

I thought it was the refresh rate on my tv, but after that checked out fine I am contemplating it is controler lag. Its noticeable but it doesnt make the game unplayable.

[AdmiralViscen]

Someone post that youtube video.

I think KZ2's lag defenders confuse complaints about lag with complaints about sluggishness. But the guy in the video gives his sticks HARD taps well outside of any possible deadzone and there is literally no response on the screen. There is no excuse for that.

I've compensated for it and I'm ok with the whole package but that doesn't make people who disagree with me uber pussy losers. Maybe they just want games that are well made

[Kestastrophe]

To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

You're right, I should have called it "unfun", because that's what the controls really were. I posted my stats, I had 1.4 k/d ratio in the 8 or so games of mutliplayer that I played. So chalking it up to personal inability to adapt? naw. I can't think of a shooter that I've played recently, or even this entire generation, whose controls have demotivated me to finishing the game.

*and the lag isn't what really turned me off, it was more the combined shittiness of DS3/weird acceleration.

[cool breeze]

If you want some more gold, read the Bionic Commando Rearmed thread where dfyb ranted on how a d-pad was more accurate than an analog stick.

justinp was quite the character

[Flannel Boy]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

Nah, it's alright to not like it. It's also totally alright to be a weakling. To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

When did sony fans steal Nfags' Metroid Prime talking points?

[duckman2000]

You're right, I should have called it "unfun", because that's what the controls really were. I posted my stats, I had 1.4 k/d ratio in the 8 or so games of mutliplayer that I played. So chalking it up to personal inability to adapt? naw. I can't think of a shooter that I've played recently, or even this entire generation, whose controls have demotivated me to finishing the game.

I assumed already from the beta that the controls would not mesh with everyone, and that some would never get accustomed to them. But there's a fucking gulf between that and arguing that the game is somehow broken simply because it's different. If it's a legitimate and significant bug, sure, adapting might take more time. But I'm not seeing a whole lot of evidence of that, with most complaints pretty fucking clearly stemming from a inability or just disinterest in adapting to the standard controls.

[AdmiralViscen]

See what I said about apologists confusing complaints about lag with complaints about sluggishness/acceleration?

[Jansen]

you guys suck. why can't you just adjust to the way killzone 2 handles? 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

 

[close]

[demi]

Controller Lag is the new Resolution

[Van Cruncheon]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

Nah, it's alright to not like it. It's also totally alright to be a weakling. To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

first, it must be worth adapting for

i'd venture that killzone 2, in its generic and retread design sensibilities, has to work extra hard to cross that line

[pilonv1]

I did but it didn't bother me, I just didn't find the game overly interesting. I would like to try out the multiplayer though

[duckman2000]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

Nah, it's alright to not like it. It's also totally alright to be a weakling. To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

first, it must be worth adapting for

i'd venture that killzone 2, in its generic and retread design sensibilities, has to work extra hard to cross that line

Some of the best skirmishes in first person shooter history would argue that it should be worth adapting to, assuming that straight and non-stop combat is what you're looking for.

As for the more serious issue of the game not registering input, I just tested this online with three different weapon types, and I didn't have a single misfire, irrespective of whether I pressed or just tapped the trigger . In the beta, the pistol would fail to fire quite often, so I know what to look for, and it was non-existent in my test. It may have been a fluke or maybe my taps aren't short enough, but I haven't really noticed it in earlier games either.

You know, the fact that I just tested something that I haven't even had a problem with says something about the uselessness of myself and the company I keep. I'm done.

[duckman2000]

I don't understand why you'd even bother. You've had seemingly nothing but problems with the game from the start. Whatever the reason for that is, I sincerely do not understand why you are still playing it. If you haven't found any value in the game at this point, just bitter down and give up.

[FatalT]

Sell the game so we stop having to read your complaints about it.

[duckman2000]

The entirety of the bridge level more than qualifies it for a spot at the top, as does the train and the majority of Suljeva. Of course, if you don't like the actual combat, chances are you won't like those scenarios either. It's not without its shortcomings or weak spots (some being very weak), but the point to point combat in this game offers some of the best firefights around. Enemies are reactive and adaptive, and use the environments well, and the scenarios, while mostly familiar, are beautifully crafted around combat.

But, I honestly don't think you should bother with it.

[Jansen]

 

[Jansen]

it's hard to appreciate the gunfights when the controls are so unresponsive

[duckman2000]

Playing on regular difficulty changes the experience, yes. But I don't think you will ever find anything of value here.

it's hard to appreciate the gunfights when the controls are so unresponsive

You know, if you put some of that bitch and whine energy towards actually learning the ropes of this game, you might actually improve. But I suppose that's out of the question, what with all the whining you're going to need that energy for.

[Bildi]

I haven't played KZ2, but I have noticed turning lag in some demos - Turok and Turning Point if I remember correctly.  I don't really understand how or why that gets into a game.

[huckleberry]

according to duckman, if you don't like KZ2 controls then you are a "whining pussy" or simply have bad taste.

Nah, it's alright to not like it. It's also totally alright to be a weakling. To label it unplayable, though, is just a comfortable excuse to cover for a personal inability to adapt.

You are the most funny fucking person on the internet dude.


When I was jizzing on myself to get a PS3 on launch night, then took it home only to find out that the goddam controllers kept losing their sync just pissed me off something awful.  Guess I am inept for not being able to adapt. smh.

[Third]

Yes.

But it's not annoying.

[duckman2000]

When I was jizzing on myself to get a PS3 on launch night, then took it home only to find out that the goddam controllers kept losing their sync just pissed me off something awful.  Guess I am inept for not being able to adapt. smh.

If you think that was somehow a sensible counter-argument to an issue revolving around a different control system and a miniscule input delay, then you're some sort of dumb. Not being able to adapt to a control system because it's different is one thing, but whining about it and ripping on the game as if it was broken to pieces because of this difference, that's some bible belt shit. And it's not even a little bit like the example you gave.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

[youtube=560,345]ZEOxkXB99NM[/youtube]
You know what's great?  Reading this thread while this music is playing in the background.  Seriously. Try it. Too bad we can't imbed the thing.

[Sho Nuff]

50 Cent Blood on the Sand has more responsive controls than Killzone 2

I guess that just proves that DJ Whoo Kid is more gangsta than Johnny Rico

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

That 50 Cent makes a mean beverage.  Love that Formula 50 Vitamin water of his.  Purple drink straight from his Inglewood laboratory.

[huckleberry]

When I was jizzing on myself to get a PS3 on launch night, then took it home only to find out that the goddam controllers kept losing their sync just pissed me off something awful.  Guess I am inept for not being able to adapt. smh.

If you think that was somehow a sensible counter-argument to an issue revolving around a different control system and a miniscule input delay, then you're some sort of dumb. Not being able to adapt to a control system because it's different is one thing, but whining about it and ripping on the game as if it was broken to pieces because of this difference, that's some bible belt shit. And it's not even a little bit like the example you gave.

Do you actually play fps games?  All the graphics in the fucking world don't make up for that shit dude.  Call me dumb all you want, maybe you are right....but you are the one in the minority here.

[bork]

That 50 Cent makes a mean beverage.  Love that Formula 50 Vitamin water of his.  Purple drink straight from his Inglewood laboratory.

[youtube=560,345]UayQTu2kH-U[/youtube]

[duckman2000]

Do you actually play fps games?  All the graphics in the fucking world don't make up for that shit dude.  Call me dumb all you want, maybe you are right....but you are the one in the minority here.

You just fucking compared a possible 150ms delay to an issue that caused the controller to completely lose sync with the console. If you represent a majority, I wear the minority badge with fucking honor.

[Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich]

Yup. Couldn't tell if it was for faux-realism, but it was definitely present yet somewhat easy to adapt to.

[Robo]

That 50 Cent makes a mean beverage.  Love that Formula 50 Vitamin water of his.  Purple drink straight from his Inglewood laboratory.

[youtube=560,345]UayQTu2kH-U[/youtube]

The best part of this routine is that he is definitely not kidding about that Sunny D commercial:

[youtube=560,345]sjgLb0HJ3VE[/youtube]

[huckleberry]

Do you actually play fps games?  All the graphics in the fucking world don't make up for that shit dude.  Call me dumb all you want, maybe you are right....but you are the one in the minority here.

You just fucking compared a possible 150ms delay to an issue that caused the controller to completely lose sync with the console. If you represent a majority, I wear the minority badge with fucking honor.

I am not comparing the two directly...quite being so goddam defensive over a video game.  I am saying it is the little shit that pisses you off in games...the little shit.  I was one of the people who actually liked Killzone 1 and was sure as hell looking forward to a sequal........



Why would you defend a game to the point of acting like an ass to people who are not necessarily opposed to you?

[AdmiralViscen]

Seriously, wtf

[duckman2000]

I am not comparing the two directly

When I was jizzing on myself to get a PS3 on launch night, then took it home only to find out that the goddam controllers kept losing their sync just pissed me off something awful.  Guess I am inept for not being able to adapt. smh.

But hey, there was no real comparison there, am I right?

The vast majority of the Very Critical Gamers who have a problem with the controls in Killzone 2 aren't interested in or simply can not adapt to it, because it's different. At least the critics were honest in their previews and admitted that they simply wanted the game to play like some other game or simply differently, but you can't expect that much from people around here. No, it must be broken beyond playability, because lord knows that's the only sensible explanation for their troubles!

So yeah, excuse me if I'm getting fed up with the whining and demands of "fixes" from a bunch of buttered queens. Can't come to terms with the controls? Got it, there are plenty of other games out there that rely on far more conventional controls that should suit your tastes. And hey, according to impressions, the game is boring and the helghast hide too much anyway, so there is apparently no great loss there.

[E-DuB]

In the limited time I've spent with the game since I bought it, I haven't noticed anything.

[AdmiralViscen]

There are like 2 people here who went so far as to call the game unplayable. I thought you hated shadow boxing

I'm loving the game, I have a positive K/D and I'm probably going to rank up faster than you are, but there are issues with the controls and I'm not gonna call people OMG PUSSY SHIT GAMERS if they don't feel like dealing with it. That's fratboy XBL ranting

If you hate whining then why do you feel the need to spam post your own whining every time someone posts their impressions of the game? FUck man, fuck. You have the last post in both of these threads every time I check the gaming side.

[duckman2000]

Yeah yeah. I've never claimed to be a particularly diplomatic person, but see it this way. I probably put about as much effort into my evaluation of these people as they have seemingly put into adjusting to the game before coming on here to offer the standard gripe about it. I've never claimed that Killzone 2 does not require an adjustment period, and I don't think it will mesh with everyone. But there is a clear fucking line between not wanting to bother with something, and to rip it apart, and in some cases even argue that it's a flat out broken design (to an unplayable degree), as opposed to the differences simply putting it beyond their care level, or their ability to adapt. It's their design, so take it or leave it.

[Cormacaroni]

I think duckman is suffering from keyboard lag.

[dammitmattt]

The entirety of the bridge level more than qualifies it for a spot at the top, as does the train and the majority of Suljeva. Of course, if you don't like the actual combat, chances are you won't like those scenarios either. It's not without its shortcomings or weak spots (some being very weak), but the point to point combat in this game offers some of the best firefights around. Enemies are reactive and adaptive, and use the environments well, and the scenarios, while mostly familiar, are beautifully crafted around combat.

But, I honestly don't think you should bother with it.

The bridge level is pretty awesome except for a game-breaking point where enemies re-spawn COD4 style (when you're in the trenches trying to get to the AA gun).  Fuck that.

[dammitmattt]

Yeah yeah. I've never claimed to be a particularly diplomatic person, but see it this way. I probably put about as much effort into my evaluation of these people as they have seemingly put into adjusting to the game before coming on here to offer the standard gripe about it. I've never claimed that Killzone 2 does not require an adjustment period, and I don't think it will mesh with everyone. But there is a clear fucking line between not wanting to bother with something, and to rip it apart, and in some cases even argue that it's a flat out broken design (to an unplayable degree), as opposed to the differences simply putting it beyond their care level, or their ability to adapt. It's their design, so take it or leave it.

I've played through 8 levels on Veteran and will finish it up over the weekend.  That's plenty of time to adapt, and I have been forced to adapt to survive.  However, just because you can adapt doesn't mean you will automatically enjoy something.  All you do in Killzone 2 is shoot dudes, so when the aiming is a little broken, that's a pretty fucking serious thing.  It turns what could be a Top 5 console shooter into a B- in my book.

[Brehvolution]

Plays fine for me, but I haven't played a console FPS since resistance. Am I supposed to be hating something? I just got passed the first heavy dude who was pretty easy IMO.

[dammitmattt]

Plays fine for me, but I haven't played a console FPS since resistance. Am I supposed to be hating something? I just got passed the first heavy dude who was pretty easy IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8RxaaJpDc&annotation_id=annotation_162337&feature=iv

Just watch this link.

[Brehvolution]

  almost a 3rd of a second lag.

What this bullshit with deferred rendering? More like deferred controller response.

[Kestastrophe]

Simple: Given the wealth of games out there, it's each games task to impress and it is NOT my job to put up with whatever janky "decisions" they made.

that pretty much sums up my experience. I went all out for KZ2 (being a fan of the first and Liberation), purchasing a PS3 for $400 even, so I was dying to love this game. I just could not get over the controls, even though I played for a good 8 hours in multi and campaign.

[AdmiralViscen]

AA obliterated, for real

[Purple Filth]

it seems the new patch fixed the problem you guys are trying to poll (that input "lag"/ "deadzone" crap) and suppsosedly SP is affected too.

so duckman annihilated then?

[duckman2000]

It's clear you've had a bone on for this game for a while given the post counts in both threads which is all well and good put please for fuck sake try to accept that people don't like an apparent decission to INCLUDE controller lag

I'm fine with that (well, sort of), but I've seen bitching about controller lag/weight/turning speed/what not since day one of the fucking beta, so excuse me if I'm less than tolerant of the standards complaints about it now. At one point, I was seriously concerned that they would cave to the pressure of new complaints and ditch the controls in favor of a standard split-second COD movement style. Of course, people eventually got a handle on it, and others just ditched the game. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

That said, controller lag causing misfires seems a lot dodgier, but then I did not manage to replicate that myself so I'm not sure if that's case to case. Or is it just in SP? If you've had that problem, then I apologize for ripping on you.

Simple: Given the wealth of games out there, it's each games task to impress and it is NOT my job to put up with whatever janky "decissions" they made.

Yet you do. And that's what I don't get. You have had issues with the game from the start (which you got earlier than most of us), so in your case, what with you managing to find no fun with the game, I genuinely don't think you should be playing it. It's pretty obviously not for you. What I also don't get is why you are playing it on Normal, considering that you were already skeptical of that difficulty prior to playing the game.

it seems the new patch fixed the problem you guys are trying to poll (that input "lag"/ "deadzone" crap) and suppsosedly SP is affected too.

so duckman annihilated then?

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.

[duckman2000]

It seems to be very difficult to get a straight answer on what this patch actually does, though. Some are claiming that it changes weapon movement and aiming significantly (increased auto-tracking, less "weight") with some even now arguing that it's ruining their madz skillz, and others say that it's too subtle to really pinpoint. I'm leaning towards the latter probably being closest to the truth.

[AdmiralViscen]

I played it an hour or two ago and there was no patch

[duckman2000]

It's euro only at the moment. I tried using my Swedish account, but I guess it has other ways to determine location.

[cool breeze]

I want to go back and play it, but I'm just waiting for the patch to go up.  If it is actually a minor difference, I don't think I would even notice it.  People on gaf seemed to be confused about what was changed too.