Author Topic: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?  (Read 2791 times)

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pilonv1

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OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« on: March 24, 2009, 02:26:43 AM »
http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/23/steve-perlmans-onlive-could-turn-the-video-game-world-upside-down/

Quote
With OnLive, players can join each other in the same multiplayer game, regardless of whether they have a PC, Mac or OnLive’s own micro-console (a simple box with minimal processing power) connected to a TV. Such cross-platform game play usually isn’t possible.

Big game publishers and developers — Electronic Arts, THQ, Take-Two Interactive, Codemasters, Eidos, Atari, Warner Bros., Epic Games and Ubisoft — have agreed to distribute their games through the OnLive network, bypassing traditional retail game sales in an effort to reach people who don’t buy game consoles or expensive game computers.

To address naysayers who think this can’t be done, given all of the Internet’s trade-offs, OnLive will show 16 games being played live on the floor of the Game Developers Conference this week in San Francisco. The game service is expected to be available before the end of the year. If this sounds to you like the interactive TV hogwash of the 1990s, like Time Warner’s Full Service Network, it is indeed very similar. The difference this time is that this looks like the real thing.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/965/965535p1.html

Quote
The current solution only introduces one millisecond of lag to encode the video, which alone is completely unnoticeable to you. Obviously, a fast internet connection is required on your end to stream the gameplay video. A 1.5 mbps connection (which is usually what base-level DSL is rated at) is required for standard-definition video (480p), while a 5.0 mbps connection is required for HD (720p).

















Interesting concept, cant see it working that well.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 02:31:33 AM by pilonv1 »
itm

brawndolicious

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 02:37:50 AM »
Okay, so you use your computer/onlive box to send controller inputs to a huge server, that server then sends you the video of the gameplay with your inputs and the other players' inputs and yet it only has like a millisecond of lag?  I can see that being realistic at maybe like youtube quality since you constantly have to wait for the server to reprocess the inputs and send the video back to you.

I'll be surprised if they can get it working as well as they say it can.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 02:39:42 AM by am nintenho »

cool breeze

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 02:39:45 AM »
Saw the video interview on gametrailer and was going to actually make this thread, but I'm too skeptical about it.  Me using a controller in my house sending that input data through the internet connecting to some beefy machine warehouse, then it responding with an action and sending back the video/audio without lag, delays or anything like that seems so improbable to me.  It's one of those cases where I want it to work and work well, I just can't see it working like they intend it to.

pilonv1

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 02:41:35 AM »
Even if they get it working at GDC, what sort of proof of concept is that? Most likely they'll be streaming from a local data source.

I too am skeptical because of the need for absolute ideal network conditions, and then you have to wonder about just how much data they're streaming.
itm

Smooth Groove

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 03:08:22 AM »
Nice!  My 5 GPUs and I will pwn all you guys still playing on puny almost-HD console hardware. 

Sho Nuff

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 04:02:55 AM »
I cannot believe this works with low latency. I will try the demo at GDC

Fragamemnon

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 04:06:03 AM »
I don't think this is going to work well when hitting 120-150 APM in an RTS game. It's going to make Killzone's controls look snappy in comparison.
hex

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 04:26:32 AM »
I believe this could work in a decade or so when there's an infrastructure to support it.  Until then it looks an awful lot like the Phantom 2009 to me.

ManaByte

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 06:06:14 AM »
So you buy a game to stream it in video form from their machine? As in it never resides on your HDD in any way?
CBG

maxy

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 06:57:22 AM »
This will be the future...

I think this will be something like downloads compared to disc media,something that you can't kill and always growing.

Imagine taking some shitty laptop to some hotel and be able to play Crysis on it.

Imagine having some uber-server in the basement,connected by wireless or wired to your tv,laptop or some outdated PC.

And being able to play anything you(and others) want at the same time.

Assuming that it works :lol

There will be a beta phase so we shall see...
cat

Diunx

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 01:00:50 PM »
My internet connection sucks, I'm going back to my corner and continue playing warcraft 3 until I get a job.

:piss 3rd world internet :piss2
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BobFromPikeCreek

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »
I really hope this works, because the idea is awesome.
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Great Rumbler

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 01:53:33 PM »
I get lots of lag on my home machine just playing 4-player online shooters. So...yeah...

spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's a really interesting idea, but a long way from being practical.
[close]
dog

Eel O'Brian

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 01:57:08 PM »
yeah, this is all pretty pie in the sky
sup

Rman

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2009, 02:08:36 PM »
It could definitely see this becoming big.  Not now or even in a few years, but in the next 5 to 7 years, yeah.  I just find it funny that people are laughing at this at this point.  As a collective hivemind, the human species is terrible at predicting technological advancements.  Anything could happen.  This could take off or not, but I just don't get the dismissing this tech outright like some have been doing.

NME

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2009, 03:23:09 PM »
This is a lot of wishful thinking, but at least they've got some good publishers on board.

I feel like it's more likely that Microsoft will be the company that breaks in with the whole "you don't need to go to a store to buy games" deal when it finally catches on. I know that's only part of the equation, with hardware still being required (presumably) and all, but that's just sort of the sense that I get.

But this is all being pulled out of thin air, so whatever.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2009, 04:49:01 PM »
it requires fiber to the home, and there's still a minimum of 80ms input lag/latency. the guy promoting is a "serial entrepreneur" -- i.e. the phantom folks.
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »
it requires fiber to the home, and there's still a minimum of 80ms input lag/latency. the guy promoting is a "serial entrepreneur" -- i.e. the phantom folks.

Yeah and even with fiber to the home there are other problems. Do you want to have to interrupt your session of Steven Hawking's Pro Wheelchair 3 so that your little shit of a teenager can talk on the VOIP while streaming a HD video off Hulu? QoS issues would be a bitch, even with fiber.

Just an idea with some venture capital. Isn't going to go anywhere.
hex

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2009, 05:01:24 PM »
it requires fiber to the home, and there's still a minimum of 80ms input lag/latency. the guy promoting is a "serial entrepreneur" -- i.e. the phantom folks.

Yeah and even with fiber to the home there are other problems. Do you want to have to interrupt your session of Steven Hawking's Pro Wheelchair 3 so that your little shit of a teenager can talk on the VOIP while streaming a HD video off Hulu? QoS issues would be a bitch, even with fiber.

Just an idea with some venture capital. Isn't going to go anywhere.

Not to mention that more and more ISPs are getting their throttle-slash-quota on, and there's no way they'd let this through without a fight. Even with compression, I can guarantee you that you're gonna be transferring way the hell more data than would fit on a DVD or even Blu-ray.

The widest pipe on Earth is still a fucking truck full of boxes, bitches!
乱学者

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2009, 06:00:19 PM »
With the current structure of the U.S. internet infastructure for end users, its not as feasible as he makes out. Large areas will be unable to use this service. And also there will be areas where there is high speed internet, but it is laggy/has high latency that will also kill this.

Its a good idea, and I'd hope it does well in the areas that it can work, but I don't see it being as good as advertised because ISPs will fight against it because most already have issues with bandwidth with the onset of hulu, netflix, etc... Adding this will be another pice of wood to that fire.
XDF

ManaByte

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 06:09:51 PM »
With the current structure of the U.S. internet infastructure for end users, its not as feasible as he makes out. Large areas will be unable to use this service. And also there will be areas where there is high speed internet, but it is laggy/has high latency that will also kill this.

Its a good idea, and I'd hope it does well in the areas that it can work, but I don't see it being as good as advertised because ISPs will fight against it because most already have issues with bandwidth with the onset of hulu, netflix, etc... Adding this will be another pice of wood to that fire.

Unless you live in the middle of bumfuck Wyoming and are married to your favorite sheep; I don't see the "THAR BE NO OF DAT BROADBAND STUFF HARE" BS being an excuse. I don't think there's a major US city that doesn't have some sort of Broadband access either from a phone company like AT&T or Verizon or the local cable company. Hell Verizon claims to be everywhere in the US.
CBG

MCD

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2009, 06:20:50 PM »
vaporware

Eel O'Brian

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2009, 06:22:01 PM »
time warner puts the skids on my connection every night from around 7 to around 12, like clockwork (they can deny it all they want, but they are fucking liars)

yeah, like i said, pie in the sky - input lag, connection lag, compression lag, laglaglag

let's just go ahead and start calling it "OnLag" and beat the rush

all i want to know is which one of these dudes gets to wreck the overpriced european sports car this time
sup

Fragamemnon

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2009, 06:28:11 PM »
Seriously,even suburban broadband in most parts of the country is limited to cable services that can't handle half a block of people youtubing on the local node, much less streaming video games. DSL's local loops are even worse.
hex

pilonv1

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2009, 07:16:02 PM »
the guy promoting is a "serial entrepreneur" -- i.e. the phantom folks.

Yeah was reading his history on Q23, looks like he's just trying to sell it. Not as blatantly obvious as the phantom though.
itm

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2009, 11:37:45 PM »
With the current structure of the U.S. internet infastructure for end users, its not as feasible as he makes out. Large areas will be unable to use this service. And also there will be areas where there is high speed internet, but it is laggy/has high latency that will also kill this.

Its a good idea, and I'd hope it does well in the areas that it can work, but I don't see it being as good as advertised because ISPs will fight against it because most already have issues with bandwidth with the onset of hulu, netflix, etc... Adding this will be another pice of wood to that fire.

Unless you live in the middle of bumfuck Wyoming and are married to your favorite sheep; I don't see the "THAR BE NO OF DAT BROADBAND STUFF HARE" BS being an excuse. I don't think there's a major US city that doesn't have some sort of Broadband access either from a phone company like AT&T or Verizon or the local cable company. Hell Verizon claims to be everywhere in the US.
Manabyte, do you realize there are cities where the ISP only has 10 mb/s total bandwidth pipe for all users around? Not small towns with less than 1000 pop. im talking cities with 250,000 people, etc.  Do you also not know that there are places where the major providers, ATT, Verizon, Qwest, Windstream, etc... cant offer services due to local telcos owning the lines or cities owning the cable plant?

Fact is that large areas of the U.S. dont have the ability currently to have broadband internet. Those people are usually stuck with dialup or satellite internet, both of which would not be feasible for OnLive. There are placed labeled by the FCC as being broadband penetrated where the broadband in question is 256kb/s in one part of the county and the rest is screwed and dialup only.

Do you know how much ISPs currently pay for backbone service from backbone vendors? Obviously ATT, Verizon, Qwest, etc can do their own backbone service. But what about Joe Blow internet? ____ city cooperative internet? All the other non Baby Bell ISPs?

While most major cities have good broadband penetration and competition, there are many places where there isnt competition and speeds are much much much much slower.  Not to mention the hardware issue for cable companies and dsl providers.

Cable issues:

Plant noise interferes with internet signal, depending on what modulation used. plant not that clean? cant use scdma and 256 qam. gotta go with slower qpsk/tdma.

too many people on a upstream node? oh well, those users suffer if you dont have a way to split the node.

what version of DOCSIS can ur plant run? cant run 3.0? 2.0? then ur stuck with 1.0/1.1 limitations

what CMTS u using?

DSL:

how old is your dslam? can it handle routing on its own? can it handle smart routing to handle other dslams having issues?

you using copper or fiber from your dslams to your end users? you running copper from the dslams to your redback/sg1/whatever termination device you use?

what kind of termination device you using? redback? cisco? juniper? adtran? what version of code it use?

see the point yet? while the Bells and big cable companies are decent, they still have issues as well.  So until the infrastructure and bandwidth issues are resolved, this will just be a pipe dream to alot of people.

XDF

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2009, 11:39:59 PM »
Seriously,even suburban broadband in most parts of the country is limited to cable services that can't handle half a block of people youtubing on the local node, much less streaming video games. DSL's local loops are even worse.

Thats usually due to overloading a node and using Docsis 1.0/1.1 or both I've found. I love Docsis 3 and the channel bonding to help alleviate this. Too bad Docsis 3 capable equipment is expensive as fuck. like 100,000 and up expensive.
XDF

NME

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2009, 09:14:04 AM »
Play all your favourite PC games ultra highend no need for big PC believe the magic!

Crysis!
Mirrors Edge!
GRID!

all the big publishers on board.

please note, "!" denotes game reprogrammed as turnbased RPGs.

What about Mirror's Edge, the text based adventure?

A Wall Appears. Action?
1. Parkour dat shit
2. Fall to death
> ?

dark1x

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2009, 09:25:32 AM »
This is an interesting idea, but as everyone else has noted, it doesn't seem feasible at this point.  Furthermore, with bandwidth caps likely to become more prevalent in the future, things seem even less possible down the road.

Another thing to consider is video quality.  Even the highest quality HD broadcast signals look like shit next to a Blu-ray.  Video games are even more demanding as they can't hide behind the flaws inherent in video.  I'd imagine that the quality would suffer quite a bit, which would not be acceptable.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 09:42:44 AM by dark1x »

CHOW CHOW

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2009, 10:11:00 AM »
Sounds amazing.  You guys are too cynical.  Have some faith.
hey

maxy

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2009, 10:11:40 AM »
cat

dark1x

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2009, 10:51:40 AM »
Live demonstration video

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/25/video-onlive-streaming-game-demonstrated/

Amazing.

HDMI only, eh? That ruins any mobility the box could have for me.

Edit: Think about it though, if it works, then consoles could theoretically do this too.
The PSP-PS3 combo can actually do something similar right now (view PS3 through PSP and play certain games).  It's not half bad, actually.

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2009, 11:04:40 AM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.
XDF

Draft

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2009, 11:06:38 AM »
I've always felt something like this would be the future of gaming.

But I dunno, I guess I figured there'd be a more even split of processing duties between the client and the server. Having practically 100% server based processing... some series sci-fi shit.

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2009, 11:10:27 AM »
I've always felt something like this would be the future of gaming.

But I dunno, I guess I figured there'd be a more even split of processing duties between the client and the server. Having practically 100% server based processing... some series sci-fi shit.

some serious beefed up servers is more like it. I want some of those machines. :drool

could run all these games and alot of the newer ones in the next decade or so no problem if its stout enough.

XDF

Eel O'Brian

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2009, 11:24:58 AM »
sup

GilloD

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2009, 01:44:32 PM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.

Yes, I am sure that the federal government is just waiting to spend billions on upgrading it's IT backbone so that we can all play videogames.
wha

Draft

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2009, 02:46:22 PM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.

Yes, I am sure that the federal government is just waiting to spend billions on upgrading it's IT backbone so that we can all play videogames.
Well, the more commerce you see that's reliant on bandwidth, the more incentive there is to create that bandwidth.

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2009, 05:38:57 PM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.

Yes, I am sure that the federal government is just waiting to spend billions on upgrading it's IT backbone so that we can all play videogames.
Well, the more commerce you see that's reliant on bandwidth, the more incentive there is to create that bandwidth.


Sorry my point wasn't as clear as I thought. Draft understands what I meant. We need to force the upgrades with more porducts like this because it wont happen very fast otherwise.
XDF

GilloD

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2009, 07:28:06 PM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.

Yes, I am sure that the federal government is just waiting to spend billions on upgrading it's IT backbone so that we can all play videogames.
Well, the more commerce you see that's reliant on bandwidth, the more incentive there is to create that bandwidth.


Sorry my point wasn't as clear as I thought. Draft understands what I meant. We need to force the upgrades with more porducts like this because it wont happen very fast otherwise.

I understood, I was just being a jerkoff. Sorry. I'm moving to Korea in a few months, they have retardo blazing internet
wha

T234

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2009, 07:50:08 PM »
GilloD, there is one thing that comes with that bandwidth: A HUGE AND TREMENDOUS LACK OF TASTE REGARDING THE CREATION OF WEBPAGES
UK

Ganhyun

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 09:22:36 PM »
I want it to work as well in Beta and normal operation as it did with the dedicated access line setup 50 miles away in normal operation with the 3/4 servers they are setting up across the U.S.

Either way, if it does decently well maybe it will force the backbone infrastructure changes needed in the U.S.

Signed up for the Beta. hopefully I can test it out.

Yes, I am sure that the federal government is just waiting to spend billions on upgrading it's IT backbone so that we can all play videogames.
Well, the more commerce you see that's reliant on bandwidth, the more incentive there is to create that bandwidth.


Sorry my point wasn't as clear as I thought. Draft understands what I meant. We need to force the upgrades with more porducts like this because it wont happen very fast otherwise.

I understood, I was just being a jerkoff. Sorry. I'm moving to Korea in a few months, they have retardo blazing internet


No big. Yea, I hear Korea and Japan are awesome with their internet speeds. But then again, compared to the U.S., they are much smaller area to cover. But yes, i want retardo fast internet speeds common across the entire usa. bandwidth needs to be the last issues we have with things to do on the internet. we should be able to focus on improving and inventing things to use said bandwidth.

like realtime hd gaming where everyone can do it dirt cheap.
XDF

thekavorka

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 10:15:57 PM »
that crysis demonstration was pretty impressive

WrikaWrek

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2009, 10:31:36 PM »
Gaming would win with Onlive's success.

Best system ever. Super versatile, nothing even compares.

Herr Mafflard

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2009, 08:17:41 AM »
Eurogamer's got a great article on why OnLive might be an impossible task.

Quote
So, let's say that Grand Theft Auto V is released via OnLive, and (conservatively) one million people want to play it at the same time. We can talk about Tesla GPUs, server clusters, the whole nine yards, but the bottom line is that the computing and rendering power we're talking about is mammoth to a degree never seen before in the games business, perhaps anywhere. There may be a way how this can be handled (more on that later), but even having capacity for 'just' 5,000 clients running at the same time is a monumental effort and expense. It would be the equivalent of us running a single Eurogamer server for every reader who connects to the site at the same time. The expense involved is staggering (not to mention the heat all this hardware would generate - think of the children!).

Factor in thousands more users, orders of magnitude more traffic at the datacenters, and all the vagaries and unreliability of the average internet connection and actual real-life performance must surely be in question. Much as we all want this to be brilliant, the fact of the matter is that even a Skype call over the internet is prone to failing badly at any given point, so the chances are that the far more ambitious OnLive is going to have its fair share of very tangible issues. Picture quality will be immensely variable and lag will remain an issue - but for the less discerning gamer, maybe - just maybe - it will work well enough.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/gdc-why-onlive-cant-possibly-work-article

The Innocent X

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2009, 11:50:11 AM »
The eurogamer article makes total sense.

The company must be very good at talking fast to attract backers in the current climate.

This will not fly. Requires at least another 10 years of network upgrades before it is even feasible outside of a local LAN environment.

Still, with phantom gone, everyone needs a new vapourvendor to talk about.

T-Short

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2009, 12:44:24 PM »
Like Frag said, QoS is going to be an issue. The ISP:s here are to an increasing extent selling TV and IP telecomms through the same subscription, and when you add OnLive on top of that... lulz.

Also, the general problem for centralized streaming solutions apply: if there is an internet outage on your or their side (which can be techical or physical = some dumbfuck digs through a fiber array), the stuff YOU PAID FOR is not available "instantaneously" anymore.
地平線

Cormacaroni

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2009, 10:49:51 PM »
Sho Nuff just twittered that it works - a little lag, visible video compression but perfectly usable.
He's as anal as you get regarding things like controller lag, fps and video quality so i'm more than a little surprised. And stop calling it vaporware - journos are using it right now. Vaporware is Duke Nukem Forever.
vjj

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2009, 01:19:14 AM »
I wonder what the quality would be like with tens of thousands of people on a server located thousands of miles away.
* Malek tries to watch an episode of House on ninjavideo.

Something like that.

Cormacaroni

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2009, 03:27:49 AM »
I wonder what the quality would be like with tens of thousands of people on a server located thousands of miles away.
* Malek tries to watch an episode of House on ninjavideo.

Something like that.


Everything we all know about using the net on a daily basis says that this is impossible. But people I trust are saying it works. If it does, it would be a phenomenal leap forward for the industry and for gamers. Hardware sucks.
vjj

brawndolicious

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2009, 05:21:25 AM »
If the Loch Ness monster really exists and this thing really catches on, wouldn't this be a huge benefit for PC developers?  There's only one platform to optimize for (although it might get huge upgrades semi-frequently?) and it's impossible to pirate the games.  I think that what will really happen is that this type of idea might be used for like some turn-based games or something and then we might see later on when the tech and the bandwidth improves in a decade, this service used in as mainstream a way as they are advertising right.  With the average broadband connection allowing you to play high-end PC games.

This has some actual innovation behind it so I hope that it doesn't become vaporware.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 05:22:56 AM by am nintenho »

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2009, 01:57:57 AM »
Yeah, I'm back. I tried a couple games on it. It works pretty well. (My coworker asked one of the girls at the booth as to what kind of compression tech they were using, it was something akin to nanohamsters.)

I heard a rumor that it has 1ms response times but that is absolute bunk. I would guess the roundtrip from controller input to something appearing on the screen is 80ms. That's still impressive, but split-second games are going to suffer.

-- Mirror's Edge. Even though it's all about the split-second jumps, this seemed to work really well. Nice clean high-contrast game at 30fps, so the compression wasn't noticeable except near places of red next to blue. I noticed it, but I worked in video design and compression for 2 years -- most people won't.
-- Burnout. They say that the system can do 60fps, but it certainly was not anywhere close to stable. We are talking mad frame rates going all over the place from 10fps to brief periods of 60fps.
-- Crysis. I would guess about 80ms of lag between when you press the trigger and the gun fires. The rep I was talking to was like "yeah, there's no multiplayer running yet." Probably because you've got no lag compensation clientside anymore, so god knows how far behind your screen is going to be and how many hops it'll be to your opponent (who is probably just as frustrated).

It's not magic. It's good technology that may not be ready for primetime, but damned if OnLive isn't going to try.

T-Short

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Re: OnLive - removing the hardware barrier?
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2009, 06:03:50 AM »
I heard a rumor that it has 1ms response times but that is absolute bunk.

During the press conference, the 1ms figure was about the alleged codec time, maybe that got misinterpreted somewhere down the internets
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