raimi "spider-man 3 not my fault"

[Eric P]

The week in geek: Spider-Man 3 'not my fault' says Raimi

Sam Raimi will return to direct Spider-Man 4 in 2011. Meantime, he's been hard at work convincing us someone else is to blame for the disappointing third instalment
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Batman and the Watchmen have dominated fan-sites for the last couple of years. But we shouldn't forget the film that kick-started the current comic-book movie revolution: Sam Raimi's bright and sparky 2002 effort, Spider-Man.

Arriving at a time when the Caped Crusader was still reeling from Joel Schumacher's abominable Batman & Robin, and Superman had spent the last 15 years consigned to the gaping hole in space once known as planet Krypton, Spider-Man struck exactly the right breezy Manhattanite tone, with wide-eyed Tobey Maguire perfectly cast as geeky nice-guy Peter Parker.

Spider-Man 2 arrived in 2004, and was arguably even better. It brought souped-up special effects, and a superior villain in the shape of Alfred Molina's Doc Oc. Raimi, director of the much-loved Evil Dead series, could apparently do no wrong. But 2007's Spider-Man 3 was a major let-down, featuring a convoluted storyline, too many villains, and a cast who looked as confused as the rest of us watching.

Earlier this week, Raimi told Sci Fi Wire that the script for Spider-Man 4, which is being penned by David Lindsay-Abaire, should be ready this summer. The aim was to shoot the film in time for a 2011 release, he said. But a separate interview in Empire magazine contained something far more eye-catching. Here, Raimi claimed he "didn't really have creative control" over Spider-Man 3, in the way he did over the first two films. The implication was that the critical panning which the third movie received was, as Han Solo might have said, "not my fault":

    "The best way for me to move forward on films, I realise … and this was a lesson I had to learn for myself … is that I've gotta be the singular voice that makes the creative choices on the film. I love Spider-Man so much that I'd like to continue telling Spider-Man stories, but only under those circumstances where I think I can honour him. I don't think I can honour him any other way."

There has been speculation that Raimi was forced to add the Venom storyline to Spider-Man 3 as the result of a last-minute intervention from producers, something he pointedly refused to deny. "I don't even want to comment on Venom, because I know he's a great character and all the fans love him," he said. "I never want to say anything bad about a much-beloved character because usually it turns out that I'm the one that doesn't understand what makes it great."

Humility aside, it's clear that Raimi is doing his best to draw a line under Spider-Man 3 in an effort to convince the all-important fanboy demographic to get behind the fourth film. But what jars somewhat here is this: how could a director who made two successful Spider-Man films (which took in excess of $1.5bn across the globe between them) struggle to impose his vision on the third?

Look at the way Warner Bros have treated The Dark Knight's Christopher Nolan: tiptoeing around him like he was a baby who might wake at any moment and cry down a house of missed financial opportunities. If executives were foolish enough to get in Raimi's way on Spider-Man 3, then it seems the brave new dawn of film-maker control, which the likes of Watchmen and The Dark Knight seem to have ushered in, has not yet arrived at Sony.

Part of me wonders if it isn't a little too convenient for directors to blame shadowy producers for the failure of a particular piece of cinema. But whether Raimi took his eye off the ball, or really was booby trapped by unseen forces, let's hope things get back on track for Spidey, because this series got it so right initially, it's tempting to hope for more to come.

The first two Spider-Man films, like Iron Man last summer, turned up the brightness dial. They presented wonderfully throwaway, unpretentious romps, populated by larger-than-life characters that just erred on the right side of pantomime.

At 35, Tobey Maguire is getting too old for Peter Parker. Spider-Man works best as a teenager (and has no comic book tradition as an older version, unlike Frank Miller's late-era Batman) - so Spider-Man 4 could well be his last chance to go out on the right note.

I agree.  Fuck venom, fuck producers, and fuck "fans"

fuck gambit.

[Eric P]

But we shouldn't forget the film that kick-started the current comic-book movie revolution: Sam Raimi's bright and sparky 2002 effort, Spider-Man.

you mean "Blade"

[Human Snorenado]

I find it hard to believe that after two movies that made a shit ton of money, Raimi suddenly had LESS control over the franchise.

[The Fake Shemp]

Nah, Blade didn't kick start anything, save for Stephen Dorff to the unemployment line.

The comic book boom arguably owes its start to Bryan Singer's X-Men, but Raimi elevated the subgenre to blockbuster status.

This stuff has been known for awhile. Avi Arad told Raimi to include Venom, a character he publically stated that he had no intention of filming.

He wanted to do Vulture and Sandman.

[Eric P]

I totally disagree with you on X-Men.  You think without Blade's success we'd have seen X-Men even hit the screen?  We'd have gotten Apt Pupil 2: Holocaust Boogaloo.

[The Fake Shemp]

I find it hard to believe that after two movies that made a shit ton of money, Raimi suddenly had LESS control over the franchise.

Sony smelled more money with Arad's idea of adding Venom and tracking data agreed.  They took a gamble betting against Sam's initial story and ultimately won, at the sake of damaging the brand strength of the franchise.

Sony is not Warner Bros., whom learned that lesson the hard way with subsequent Batman sequels in the 90s.

[Diunx]

Did the producers also force him to include the shitty sandman and Harry plots?

[The Fake Shemp]

I totally disagree with you on X-Men.  You think without Blade's success we'd have seen X-Men even hit the screen?  We'd have gotten Apt Pupil 2: Holocaust Boogaloo.

Blade was a moderate success, nothing to get in a greelight frenzy over. X-Men was already in the pipeline before Blade's box office revenue was known.

[The Fake Shemp]

Did the producers also force him to include the shitty sandman and Harry plots?

Harry and Sandman were always in the draft, although Harry had a different arcs in each treatment and I personally felt Sandman was one of the few things that worked.

[Human Snorenado]

The gay ass dancing scene... somehow I'm doubting that was Sony's idea.

[The Fake Shemp]

I said it day one and I'll say it now - that whole 70s emo Parker sequence is the only part where that film felt alive. Its hokey and cheesy and definitely Raimi.

Film needed more cheesy dancing and less weeping and Venom.

[The Fake Shemp]

"Gimme some mo'" is classic - great scene.

Venom was easily the worst part of the script. Pie eating Harry and cookie eating Peter were the tops.

[Phoenix Dark]

I said it day one and I'll say it now - that whole 70s emo Parker sequence is the only part where that film felt alive. Its hokey and cheesy and definitely Raimi.

Film needed more cheesy dancing and less weeping and Venom.

Fucking amen. I just look at the movie as Peter Parker 1 instead of Spider-Mman 3. Very funny, entertaining movie in that regard

Blade did surprisingly well but it wasn't The Event like the first Spider-Man was

[Human Snorenado]

There you go Federwang, you've got Maurice on your side.  If ever there was a sure sign that you were wrong...

[Veidt]

Sandman made it crap. Venom needed a movie dedicated to him.

[Kestastrophe]

Holy shit, Gren Shinobi is right and Willco's wrong  . Today really is backwards day

[Cheebs]

Emo Peter Parker and everything with James Franco were the best parts of Spidey 3.

[Eel O'Brian]

if you're a longtime spider-man fan, you could see what raimi was paying homage to in the "bad" peter parker scenes, as they are straight from the stan lee/john romita hipster peter parker era when peter all of a sudden became a cocky finger-snapping scooter-riding doofus trying to bang gwen stacy

and even though the venom scenes were ugh, they sort of cemented my opinion that topher grace would have been a better spider-man/peter parker than tobey mayonnaise maguire

[TakingBackSunday]

Seth Rogen tells a story on the Knocked Up commentary that he sat in front of Tobey Maguire at the premier of Knocked Up and Tobey was like a big black dude at a movie.  Kept on yelling out comments like "no he di'int!" and "what an asshole!" etc etc

[Phoenix Dark]

Green Shinobi is never right about anything.

Emo Parker dancing, compelling an emaciated chick make cookies for him, slapping MJ, strutting down the street>>>Sandman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Venom

[Cheebs]

I love it when Franco & Dunst start randomly dancing to "do the twist" and making omelets. 

[fistfulofmetal]

the entire movie was garbage. the entire thing.

[Barry Egan]

Seth Rogen tells a story on the Knocked Up commentary that he sat in front of Tobey Maguire at the premier of Knocked Up and Tobey was like a big black dude at a movie.  Kept on yelling out comments like "no he di'int!" and "what an asshole!" etc etc

 

[Rman]

I can't stand Avi Arad.

[Phoenix Dark]

the entire movie was garbage. the entire thing.

Even the emaciated chick? She seems right up your alley

[fistfulofmetal]

the who

the only girl i remember from that movie was Bryce Dallas Howard 

[Solo]

Raimi confirms what we've all know for years. Still though, this gives me even more faith in S-M4. Im going to pretend 3 didnt happen, and S-M4 is now the sequel to S-M2.

[Dickie Dee]

if you're a longtime spider-man fan, you could see what raimi was paying homage to in the "bad" peter parker scenes, as they are straight from the stan lee/john romita hipster peter parker era when peter all of a sudden became a cocky finger-snapping scooter-riding doofus trying to bang gwen stacy

and even though the venom scenes were ugh, they sort of cemented my opinion that topher grace would have been a better spider-man/peter parker than tobey mayonnaise maguire

Truff.

They should just say fuck it and cast Topher for Spidey 4, we'll all just pretend to not notice he was already in Spidey 3. Everyone's pretty willing to forget it anyways.

[Tauntaun]

the entire movie was garbage. the entire thing.

I would have to agree, there were several times where I wanted to cause physical harm to myself.   

[Lafiel]

My biggest disappointment with spider-man 3 is that they killed VENOM, which is BS, venom cant die, and def not the way he died in that movie.
I'm surprised that venom was added in in the last minute of the third movie though, being such a iconic villian, how come he wasn't planned from the start? and the sandman real uncle ben killer bs was?  think raimi hates venom as a villian though.

[CHOW CHOW]

I totally disagree with you on X-Men.  You think without Blade's success we'd have seen X-Men even hit the screen?  We'd have gotten Apt Pupil 2: Holocaust Boogaloo.

most people probably didn't know blade was even a comic book

blade may be where it technically started but x-men popularized it

[Veidt]

My biggest disappointment with spider-man 3 is that they killed VENOM, which is BS, venom cant die, and def not the way he died in that movie.
I'm surprised that venom was added in in the last minute of the third movie though, being such a iconic villian, how come he wasn't planned from the start? and the sandman real uncle ben killer bs was?  think raimi hates venom as a villian though.

Yeah, I think he hates Venom too. That's sad because Venom is fuck awesome in the comics and TV Shows.

[ToxicAdam]

ITT a bunch of people that pretend or forget that Spider Man 2 was a bunch of emo shit, too.


Spiderman 3 is just when you dummies finally woke up.

 

[Veidt]

Seriously, I'm gonna have to agree with ToxicAdam. Sam Raimi keeps putting that emotion shit in the spidey movies. I want fucking nick fury and the alternate spidermans from the parallel universes.

[bud]

spider-man 2 > the dark knight

[Veidt]

TDK was awesome the first time I saw it. But after a little while, the only parts that I can bare to watch are the Joker parts.

[Junpei the Tracer!]

What's wrong with "emo" and "emotion shit"? Spidey has a hard life.

[BamYouHaveAids]

spider-man 2 > the dark knight

this is evilbore, saying something is better than the TDK isn't really flamebait here

spider-man > spider-man 2 > TDK

[Veidt]

What's wrong with "emo" and "emotion shit"? Spidey has a hard life.

Really? I mean, I thought the Pizza gig worked well for him,until he decided to fuck it up by wasting his time on MJ.

[Fresh Prince]

ITT a bunch of people that pretend or forget that Spider Man 2 was a bunch of emo shit, too.
Spiderman 3 is just when you dummies finally woke up.

Dr Octagon's shit was embarrassing as well as Peter's. And the science smh.

[bud]

fuck you guys that movie's awesome :'(

[ManaByte]

the entire movie was garbage. the entire thing.

Wrong.

(Image removed from quote.)

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Solo]

spider-man 2 > the dark knight

This is true

[Eel O'Brian]

but spider-man was always emo, from the very first issue of the comics

he was a bitter self-absorbed nerd who just wanted to make money off of and rub the cool kid's noses in his powers

they just didn't call it emo back then

[Bildi]

Since he didn't apologise for 1 and 2 as well, I'll pass on 4.

[Diunx]

spider-man 2 > the dark knight

No/omgrite.

[cool breeze]

I re-watched most of Spider-Man 3 just now and yeah, it's pretty fucking awful.  I mean, almost every ounce of the movie is terrible save for the parts that are so bad they are funny and make you wonder if it was intended or not.

[youtube=560,345]8l354vhJ9no[/youtube]

 

and there was a DKR rip for Spider-Man called Spider-Man Reign where you see Peter's old saggy penis.

[Dickie Dee]

S3 is awful, but the only thing I still don't quite get is how intentionally awful it's supposed to be.

Some of it's worst cheesiest bits shouldn't have happened, but I at least appreciate that they were attempting some humor, there are other bits though that are just rotten sloppy.

[AdmiralViscen]

I forgot that scene even existed. Fuck Kirsten Dunst is hideous

[The Fake Shemp]

I personally adore the cheesy bits, because save for the awesome Sandman sequences, the rest of the film feels soulless and tacked on.  I've always adored Raimi for his camp - it's just here it's awkwardly placed.  And not random, awesome camp like the "Raindrops" sequence from Spidey 2.

I place a lot of blame on Raimi, simply because as a director, he does have the execute the vision - even if he doesn't agree with it.  If he really hated everything as much as we've heard (and now read), he should've just walked.  I know that's probably tough, because he worked his way up the studio ladder the hard way, but that probably would've been for the best.  Even if he hits Spidey 4 out of the ballpark, Spidey 3 will be a blemish on the series.

The thing that irks me the most is between Sandman and a few other bits, there was probably a concept for a great Spider-Man film in there somewhere, but Raimi just didn't give a shit.