Ron Paul: Secession is American

[Ganhyun]

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/21/ron-paul-secession-is-american/

The biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed over an individual who thinks along these lines, because I heard people say, well, this is treasonous and this was un-American. But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession, we seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we don’t have it anymore. I argue that if you had the principle of secession, our federal government wouldn’t be as intrusive into state affairs and to me that would be very good.

We as a nation have endorsed secession all along. Think of all of the secession of the countries and the republics from the Soviet system. We were delighted. We love it. And yet we get hysterical over this just because people want to debate and defend the principle of secession, that doesn’t mean they’re calling for secession. I think it’s that restraining element of secession that would keep the federal government from doing so much. In our early history, they accepted the principles of secession all along.

[Human Snorenado]

The best, tho, has to be Texas Governor/El Presidente Rick Perry, who one week is talking about secession and the next is getting pissed that some group wants to get rid of the pledge of allegiance.  Uh, Rick... "one nation, indivisible" etc etc.  They sure grow 'em dumb down in Texas.

[ShogunOfFear]

What about Vermont?

[Kestastrophe]

good riddance, Texas

[Human Snorenado]

What about Vermont?

Vermont is indispensable, good maple syrup comes from there.  Plus Ben & Jerry's.  All Texas apparently gives the country are distinguished mentally-challenged politicians.

[Eric P]

lonestar beer, you taco

[ShogunOfFear]

What about Vermont?

Vermont is indispensable, good maple syrup comes from there.  Plus Ben & Jerry's.  All Texas apparently gives the country are distinguished mentally-challenged politicians.

No I was asking about the liberals in Vermont that want secession.  

[AdmiralViscen]

We're comparing wing nuts to governors and elected representatives?

[Human Snorenado]

What about Vermont?

Vermont is indispensable, good maple syrup comes from there.  Plus Ben & Jerry's.  All Texas apparently gives the country are distinguished mentally-challenged politicians.

No I was asking about the liberals in Vermont that want secession.  

Well, they're wrong too.  But plz link the Gov. of Vermont talking about secession.  kaythxbye.

[Mupepe]

Texas is the shit.  We give you awesome Tex-Mex, S Padre Island, Sixth Street, SXSW in Austin, hot hispanic-americans and good fucking barbecue.

Ron Paul is a tard though.  Remember how much we embraced secession in the 1860's???  Very American!

[Human Snorenado]

If Texas seceded, I'm pretty sure we'd either evacuate all the cool people out of Austin or just do a Berlin airlift style mission to keep them supplied.

[Mupepe]

You'll stop by and pick me up?

[FlameOfCallandor]

I don't think he is endorsing it, I just think that hes putting all this succession talk into perspective. Rick Perry is an idiot and even got booed off the stage at the Travis County convention.

[Don Flamenco]

who is ron paul?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Who is John Galt?

[Rman]

So Texas doesn't have term limits for Governors?  Three terms seems like an eternity these day.

[Mr. Gundam]

Hey guys, remember when dissent was un-American about six months ago?

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hey guys, remember when dissent was un-American about six months ago?

 

In all fairness, Ron Paul has always said that dissenting is patriotic.

[Cheebs]

Why are conservatives such sore losers about this election?

Hell in 2004, liberals whined about moving to Canada for a month or two and that was about it. Conservatives lose in the biggest margin in 20 years or so and they want to revolt. It's mind boggling.

[Brehvolution]

Why are conservatives such sore losers about this election?

Hell in 2004, liberals whined about moving to Canada for a month or two and that was about it. Conservatives lose in the biggest margin in 20 years or so and they want to revolt. It's mind boggling.

It's because it was their last chance at keeping any relevant power, and they know it. New laws won't be made with religious principals. They've been shown they are actually the minority opinion now that the repubs are out of power and it's quite a shock to their system.

[ShogunOfFear]

What about Vermont?

Vermont is indispensable, good maple syrup comes from there.  Plus Ben & Jerry's.  All Texas apparently gives the country are distinguished mentally-challenged politicians.

No I was asking about the liberals in Vermont that want secession.  

Well, they're wrong too.  But plz link the Gov. of Vermont talking about secession.  kaythxbye.

Just put my glasses on, don't see any mentioning of the Gov of Vermont in my post.  I don't know who the gov is nor do I care.  I'm talking about the secession movement in general, everyone gangs up on Texas, but there are other states where these movements are happening and have been for some time.  The one in Vermont got press attention some time back.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/vermont_talks_secession.html

The neo-conservatives running Washington, trampling on civil rights at home and invading countries overseas, have left a group of Vermont freedom fighters with no choice but to secede from the United States.

On Oct. 28, at the state capitol building in Montpelier, a historic independence convention was held, the first of its kind in the United States since May 20, 1861, when North Carolina decided to leave the Union.

More than 400 people gathered in the Vermont statehouse to start the daylong secession convention with a speech by keynote James Howard Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency, and ended with a resolution passed to secede from the United States.

Most people think of secession as impossible if not treasonous, but the concept is deeply rooted in the Declaration of Independence, reminding us, �Whenever any form of government becomes destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute new government.�

With the neo-con takeover of Washington, transforming America into a one-party dictatorship, that�s what the resolution passed in Vermont seeks to do, according to members of the growing grassroots group, the Second Vermont Republic.

The measure is the first step in a long process that needs support from the state legislators, as well as an officially recognized convention.

The resolution states in part: �Be it resolved that the state of Vermont peacefully and democratically free itself from the United States of America and return to its natural status as an independent republic as it was between Jan. 15, 1777,and March 4, 1791.�

Critics give the secession group �a snowball�s chance in hell� of succeeding. But organizers say that, in today�s tyrannical political climate, secession will succeed and prosper.

�This could only happen in Vermont where people are still fiercely independent and fed up with the course the American government is taking,� said Thomas Naylor, head of the group. �We have a lot going for us and if you think about it, we have a lot in common with Poland�s solidarity
movement, which many said would never succeed.�

He added: �Poland did get its freedom, mainly because it was a country liked around the world, sort of like how people in America feel about Vermont. When people think of Vermont, they have a warm and fuzzy feeling, an image of black and white Holstein cows and beautiful scenery. I
can also tell you there is now closet support in the legislature, and we are serious about getting the support needed to secede from the United States.�

Naylor, a former Duke University economics professor, said from his Vermont home that statewide independence is really a euphemism for secession, adding Vermont will also seek to join the group of Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization, similar to the Lakota Indians.

�Secession is one of the most politically charged words in America, thanks to Abraham Lincoln,� said Naylor. He said he has been writing about secession for 10 years but the movement picked up tremendous steam after 9-11.

�Secession really combines a radical act of rebellion grounded in fear and anger with a positive vision for the future,� he added.

�[Secession] first involves denunciation that the United States has lost its moral authority and is unsustainable, ungovernable and unfixable,� he said.
�Second, there is disengagement or admitting �I don�t want to go down with the Titanic.� Third, there is demystification that secession really is a viable option constitutionally, politically and economically. And finally, [there is] defiance, saying �I personally want to help take Vermont back from big business, big markets and big government, and I want to do so peacefully.��

What started out as Naylor�s fantasy, to have an independent country made up of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine, has already grown from a small group of 36 supporters several years ago to a packed House chamber in the state�s capitol. Claiming to have a membership of 160 as of last April, Naylor said the numbers have doubled or even tripled today.

�I�m getting calls from all over the country supporting our movement,� said Naylor. �Although there are more than 20 states with some kind of secession movement�Alaska and Hawaii being the best examples�I think Vermont really has the best chance at succeeding at seceding.�

The Vermont independence convention was held in Montpelier, the smallest state capital in the United States. But what this town lacks in size is more than made up for by its reputation as being one of the most fiercely independent and anti-big business towns in the country.

Montpelier is the only capital city to have prevented McDonald�s from building one of its fast food restaurants inside the city limits.

�First and foremost, we want out of the United States. It�s not just an anti-Bush statement. If [Sen. John] Kerry was elected, we still would have wanted out,� said Naylor. �The reality is that we have a one-party system in this country, called the Republican Party, that is owned and operated and controlled by corporate America. So it�s not just a Bush protest, but a protest against the empire.�

Most Vermont politicians, including the congressional delegation, have ignored the grassroots secession movement. However, Vermont Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie has weighed in on the issue, giving it a certain amount of merit but stopping short of outright support.

�I really salute their energy and passion,� he said in a local press interview. �We have an obligation to think of what is in our best interest as a state and for the people of our state, even as we approach federal and national issues.�

Others who spoke at the Oct. 28 independence convention included Professor Frank Bryan of the University of Vermont; author Kirkpatrick Sale; J. Kevin Graffagnino, executive director of the Vermont Historical Society; Professor Eric Davis of Middlebury College; Shay Totten, editor of The Vermont Guardian; and Dr. Rob Williams of Champlain College.

Texas,  Vermont, Alaska, I'm sure we can find others.

[Ganhyun]

about the Vermont secession issue:

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/vermont-secede-succeed

Kinda old, but still, WTF!!!!

This week, however, the eccentric left-wing scholars and retired busy-bodies behind the campaign took a more controversial step which is puzzling some of its die-hard supporters. They travelled the 2,000 miles to the other end of the Appalachian Trail to sit down with an equally academically-minded group from the south also pushing for secession from the United States. Unlike the delegates of the Second Vermont Republic, the League of the South wraps itself in the flag of the Confederacy and has been widely denounced as a racist hate group.

Again, WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparantly, this group still exists (the Vermont group)

[Eric P]

politics makes strange bedfellows

 

[ManaByte]

What about Vermont?

Vermont is indispensable, good maple syrup comes from there.  Plus Ben & Jerry's.  All Texas apparently gives the country are distinguished mentally-challenged politicians.

No I was asking about the liberals in Vermont that want secession.  

Well, they're wrong too.  But plz link the Gov. of Vermont talking about secession.  kaythxbye.

Just put my glasses on, don't see any mentioning of the Gov of Vermont in my post.  I don't know who the gov is nor do I care.  I'm talking about the secession movement in general, everyone gangs up on Texas, but there are other states where these movements are happening and have been for some time.  The one in Vermont got press attention some time back.

Texas,  Vermont, Alaska, I'm sure we can find others.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Alaska, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Washington.

It's not just Texas. This has been going on since February. New Hampshire started it.

[Mr. Gundam]

Eastern Washington (state) is insane, they're the ones who want to form their own state and break away from the U.S.

[recursivelyenumerable]

http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Militant-Mike1

 22 / m / straight / single 

My Self-Summary: I do not surrender my treasures, nor do I share them. The fortune of my spirit is not to be blown into coins of brass and flung to the winds as alms for the poor of the spirit. I guard my treasures: my thought, my will, my freedom. And the greatest of these is freedom.

My name is Mike. This is my second account on ok cupid. Liberty is not negotiable. I will not allow you to pick and choose what liberties I am entitled to enjoy. Liberty is my natural right at birth. I will not compromise away the most precious thing I posses as a human being, Liberty. There can be no compromise with freedom and government control. To accept "just a few" violations of liberty is to surrender the principle of inalienable individual rights. Likewise when there is a compromise between justice and injustice, the result is an injustice. When there is a compromise between rationality and irrationality, the result is irrational. When there is a compromise between integrity and not acting in accordance with ones convictions, the result is an act not in accordance with one's convictions. Therefore any compromise between freedom and slavery, results in slavery. If you wish to give up your liberty for saftey or whatever else you think is worth that price, you are free to do so. You however have NO right to make this choice for me.

The first thing(s) people usually notice about me: Besides from the fact I'm really short I'd say that I really hate government, taxes, collectivists, communists, socialists, statists, and pretty much most people in general. My passion for justice. That I hold very strong opinions, and am driven by conscience and conviction, and would prefer death over betraying my principles.

I spend a lot of time thinking about: Why most of humanity is so pathetic, worthless, stupid, unethical, and tyrannical.

The most private thing I’m willing to admit here: Ron Paul is the only man in our government that doesn't need a bullet to the back of the head in my opinion. The ATF and FBI have a file on me. If you don't have a FBI file you aren't doing enough against this tyrannical state.

[Cheebs]

Sounds like FoC's perfect gay lover.

[Phoenix Dark]

The most private thing I’m willing to admit here: Ron Paul is the only man in our government that doesn't need a bullet to the back of the head in my opinion. The ATF and FBI have a file on me. If you don't have a FBI file you aren't doing enough against this tyrannical state.

makes me wonder why there's not a hardcore libertarian/right wing hip hop movement. Like, Ayn Rand meets Jedi Mind Tricks

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

We can move all the secessionists to Idaho and let them secede.  We don't really need that state anyway.

[Joe Molotov]

Threatening to do something because you hate the government and not actually ever having any intention of doing it is American.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, every state has at LEAST one crazy-ass state-level congressthing that pushes a secession bill each session

[Akala]

We can move all the secessionists to Idaho and let them secede.  We don't really need that state anyway.

Let's give them Kansas instead.

[Flannel Boy]

anyone want Winnipeg?

PLUSES
Flannel Girl

NEGATIVES
Malek

[Boogie]

anyone want Winnipeg?

PLUSES
Flannel Girl

NEGATIVES
Malek
IT'S FUCKING COLD
Floods

You missed a couple points.

[Flannel Boy]

flood missed the law building by a few feet. 

[Flannel Boy]

we have the highest crime rate in Canada, boogie

get off your lazy ass

[Boogie]

we have the highest crime rate in Canada, boogie

get off your lazy ass

ooh, forgot about that point too.

Not my jurisdiction 

[Flannel Boy]

the crime rate is inaccurate.

too many unwarranted stalking complainants.

[chronovore]

Hey guys, remember when dissent was un-American about six months ago?

 

In all fairness, Ron Paul has always said that dissenting is patriotic.

Dissenting is. But what he's arguing here is secession, and claiming that it's American, when in actuality it's about taking part of America, and making it into something else. I mean, that's the whole point of seceding, right? Great! Go for it! Of course, as their own political entity, they'll have to deal with their own defense budget, but I don't think Mexico wants all those entitlement-crazy bastards, either. However it would be fun to watch Texas try to survive as an entirely independent state if they secede and then we embargo them from here until the cows come home. Whee!

Why are conservatives such sore losers about this election?

Hell in 2004, liberals whined about moving to Canada for a month or two and that was about it. Conservatives lose in the biggest margin in 20 years or so and they want to revolt. It's mind boggling.

Yeah, I agree. Conservatives were really, really fond of saying "America: love it or leave it!" encouraging anyone who didn't agree with their policies to pick up and leave. Now that the majority of people have spoken for change, instead of following their own advice, they're screaming like babies.

[Eric P]

to be fair, that was before america started sleeping around with black presidents

now there's just something...unclean about america.

[Tauntaun]

to be fair, that was before america started sleeping around with black presidents

now there's just something...unclean about america.

you racist.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Eric P]

i mean i knew there was something going on with America, they way it had been hanging around mexico for the past two hundred years, but man, i never expected this.

where was canada in all of this?