Author Topic: High school science teacher sued, found guilty for insulting creationism (Read 4060 times)

Human Snorenado · « **on:** May 04, 2009, 10:07:15 AM »

I for one can't wait for the portion of science classes going forward where we weigh women against a duck to discover if they're witches or not.

Quote

SANTA ANA – A Mission Viejo high school history teacher violated the First Amendment by disparaging Christians during a classroom lecture, a federal judge ruled today.

James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, referred to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.

The decision is the culmination of a 16-month legal battle between Corbett and Farnan – a conflict the judge said should remind teachers of their legal “boundaries” as public school employees.

"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."

Well then.

pilonv1 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:09:01 AM »

stupid fucking american religious nuts

Brehvolution · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:23:32 AM »

The case should be thrown out. It's obvious the judge used his own personal beliefs in his decision.

smh

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:31:06 AM »

Quote from: mojovonio on May 04, 2009, 10:30:37 AM

Quote
a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School,

Am I the only one that finds that odd?

He's been teaching there for 20 years? What's odd?

Bocsius · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:42:10 AM »

Don't see the problem here.

Quote

In a December 2007 lawsuit, Farnan, then a sophomore, accused Corbett of repeatedly promoting hostility toward Christians in class and advocating "irreligion over religion" in violation of the First Amendment's establishment clause.

The establishment clause prohibits the government from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion" and has been interpreted by U.S. courts to also prohibit government employees from displaying religious hostility.

You people do want folks to keep their religious opinions to themselves, right? Or does that only apply to people who are actually religious?

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:44:10 AM »

No, I want science teachers to be able to tell the truth- that creationism is, in the teacher's words, "religious, superstitious nonsense".

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:45:28 AM »

PROOF?!

Eric P · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:06:09 AM »

teacher should have copped to some protestant religion, then he could have said all kinds of shit while still holding the upper hand.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:29:22 AM »

I guess the teacher forgot he was in America, Land of the Jesus and Home of the Christian Fundamentalists.

tehjaybo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:37:39 AM »

ITT we sue people who tell the truth.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2009, 12:01:45 PM »

It's odd that the court wasn't able to find a legitimate secular purpose for his statement, and really didn't explain why it couldn't. The secular purpose was to educate students about teachers who bring non-scientific beliefs into a science classroom. Maybe he could have phrased his statement differently, but the purpose would have been just the same.

The teacher made other comments regarding religion that were far more incendiary; nevertheless, the court somehow found that those comments did not violate the student's first amendment rights.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2009, 12:05:35 PM »

Quote from: Green Man on May 04, 2009, 11:47:59 AM

Man, I sure do hope that God is real and is everything those books say he is. It would be hilarious.

Yeah, but EB would be left in the Rapture. We would have a Mark of the Beast thread for how fast we could sell our souls to Satan.

Either that, or we would all convert and be one of the 144,000 followers.

Christbore? Doesn't work as well.

Diunx · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2009, 12:52:15 PM »

Thats what happens when you get sued by JESUS! I would totally watch a show about jesus being a lawyer suing atheist and people that put christmas trees in their house.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:09:24 PM »

Quote from: Malek on May 04, 2009, 12:01:45 PM

It's odd that the court wasn't able to find a legitimate secular purpose for his statement, and really didn't explain why it couldn't. The secular purpose was to educate students about teachers who bring non-scientific beliefs into a science classroom. Maybe he could have phrased his statement differently, but the purpose would have been just the same.

The teacher made other comments regarding religion that were far more incendiary; nevertheless, the court somehow found that those comments did not violate the student's first amendment rights.

Agreed. I've had biology teachers walk a tight rope while discussion creationism, trying their hardest not to laugh/insult whoever asked the question

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:21:35 PM »

All they have to do is say that there's no scientific basis for creationism, and we're in science class.

Diunx · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:25:30 PM »

I once laughed really loud when someone in my professional ethics class said "the bible says" during an argument, I don't even remember what the argument was, I think it was about abortions.

Kara · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2009, 02:03:25 PM »

He's my little brother's history teacher. I think he carpools with the kid whose parents sued, too.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2009, 02:17:00 PM »

Quote from: Green Man on May 04, 2009, 01:43:09 PM

For the record, I believe in both creationism and evolution.

The funny thing is that parts of both theories are compatible. I mean, got to explain that big bang somehow. But there is no leeway with the fundamentalists, although creationism seems to adapt natural selection to some point from what I've seen.

Mupepe · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2009, 02:51:02 PM »

maybe it had no context because he is a european history teacher and not a science teacher

Bloodwake · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:15:34 PM »

My beliefs are basic Deism

-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.

Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:23:19 PM »

There was context. Corbett made the statement as a student newspaper adviser, explaining to his class his reason for refusing to give a creationist-teacher space in his school newspaper.

At least I think that's what happened; the judge doesn't write clear prose.

Quote

Corbett also told his students that, in response to a request to give Peloza space in the newspaper to present his point of view, Corbett stated,

Remove the prepositional phrase and we get: "Corbett also told his students that Corbett stated . . ."

Huh?

Mandark · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:40:28 PM »

Quote from: Willco on May 04, 2009, 10:45:28 AM

PROOF?!

Link plz.

Kara · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:41:48 PM »

Is there a GAF thread about this yet? If not I'd love to start it. Gotta pad my "threads started by..." with some high reply counts.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:51:55 PM »

Quote from: Karakand on May 04, 2009, 03:41:48 PM

Is there a GAF thread about this yet? If not I'd love to start it. Gotta pad my "threads started by..." with some high reply counts.

That would be . . . a trainwreck.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:01:47 PM »

Quote from: Bloodwake on May 04, 2009, 03:15:34 PM

My beliefs are basic Deism

-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.

Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.

Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?

You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.

Eric P · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:05:31 PM »

tacos

the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat

the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato

the cheese is delicious

Cyanista · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:08:21 PM »

No wonder I love tacos.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »

Quote from: Malek on May 04, 2009, 04:01:47 PM

Quote from: Bloodwake on May 04, 2009, 03:15:34 PM
My beliefs are basic Deism

-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.

Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.

Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?

You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.

Who's to say that the higher being isn't someone who makes several universes? I know when I finish a story or a painting that I wouldn't endlessly tweak the same story or painting for years. If there is a God, he isn't the George Lucas of deities.

Diunx · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:13:42 PM »

Thor>>>>>god.

Cyanista · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:15:05 PM »

I would worship Thor before the christian God, yes. Vikings are so hardcore.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #30 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:48:08 PM »

i'm a genius genius, i believe in god and i believe that god believes in claude

Eric P · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »

well yeah

claude exists

i mean, where do you think rain comes from?

Powerslave · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Malek on May 04, 2009, 04:01:47 PM

Quote from: Bloodwake on May 04, 2009, 03:15:34 PM
My beliefs are basic Deism

-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.

Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.

Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?

You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.

Are you talking in the lines of 'where did God came from'?
Because if so, it's a faulty question on itself because God created reality, all your logic and thinking capability and beginnings/endings himself.. so it is a 'inside the box' question actually. The box being the universe/reality. I think it's a pretty hard to grasp understanding but when it finally clicks then you look at things from a whole different angle.

etiolate · « **Reply #33 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:05:57 PM »

Quote from: The Card Cheat on May 04, 2009, 01:21:35 PM

All they have to do is say that there's no scientific basis for creationism, and we're in science class.

But that's not what he said. It is fine to teach science in a science classroom, but you're not there to teach your theological positions.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #34 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:06:06 PM »

really? where does it say god created reality? did god tell you this? did he also tell you what reality is, doctor manhattan?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:08:28 PM »

as for the teacher, he did the right thing, which is condemn ignorance. creationism isn't a plausible explanation. if i was teaching a class whose fundamental purpose is to impart an understanding of a process centered on empirical observation, experimentation, and analysis, and some dipshit kid says WOW HEY A MAGIC SPACEMAN DID ALL THIS LOL READ THE BOOK i would have him ritually strangled on my desk, or barring that at least completely humiliated for being a 'tard. by pre-empting the clueless shitheels with the announcement that creationism is delusional, he probably saved the life of a kid he would have had to mercilessly mock and/or strangle.

Mandark · « **Reply #36 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:17:48 PM »

Is there any reason to give creationism more play than Holocaust denialism in an academic setting, other than "Well, it's an intrinsic part of a lot of people's cultural identity."

I'm all for bleeding heart multiculturalism and stuff, but c'mon.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:17:48 PM »

Quote from: Eric P on May 04, 2009, 04:05:31 PM

tacos

the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat

the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato

the cheese is delicious

this is very similar to Americurry's Curry Creation Myth

just as many of the older religions share a universal flood myth, our new creation stories share the belief that cheese is delicious

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Powerslave on May 04, 2009, 05:03:12 PM

Are you talking in the lines of 'where did God came from'?
Because if so, it's a faulty question on itself because God created reality, all your logic and thinking capability and beginnings/endings himself.. so it is a 'inside the box' question actually. The box being the universe/reality. I think it's a pretty hard to grasp understanding but when it finally clicks then you look at things from a whole different angle.

You are begging the question, sir.

Quote from: etiolate on May 04, 2009, 05:05:57 PM

But that's not what he said. It is fine to teach science in a science classroom, but you're not there to teach your theological positions.

nah, it's a scientific position. To stretch it, it's a philosophical position.

Quote from: Mandark on May 04, 2009, 05:17:48 PM

Is there any reason to give creationism more play than Holocaust denialism in an academic setting, other than "Well, it's an intrinsic part of a lot of people's cultural identity."

I'm all for bleeding heart multiculturalism and stuff, but c'mon.

Unlike Holocaust denial, it's not motivated by hatred. Well, okay, maybe hatred and disdain for education, but . . . not ethnic/racial hatred.

OptimoPeach · « **Reply #39 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:22:21 PM »

inb4 Hollywood has another meltdown

Eric P · « **Reply #40 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:23:18 PM »

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on May 04, 2009, 05:17:48 PM

Quote from: Eric P on May 04, 2009, 04:05:31 PM
tacos

the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat

the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato

the cheese is delicious

this is very similar to Americurry's Curry Creation Myth

just as many of the older religions share a universal flood myth, our new creation stories share the belief that cheese is delicious

oh man, i am totally going to go-go curry this fucking week

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:35:10 PM »

have you ever been?

go go curry is TEH BOMB, I went to the one in Akihabara last time I was in Japan

GET CHEESE TOPPING

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:43:53 PM »

Cheese on curry? THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #43 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:50:48 PM »

Cheese on curry is the foundation stone of my belief in a benevolent higher power

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #44 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:53:07 PM »

So what you're saying is that cheese on curry is like the anti comic sans?

Eric P · « **Reply #45 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:53:44 PM »

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on May 04, 2009, 05:35:10 PM

have you ever been?

go go curry is TEH BOMB, I went to the one in Akihabara last time I was in Japan

GET CHEESE TOPPING

never heard of it

the only japanese places that my gf knows of are all obviously staffed by Chinese or Thai people that ordering anything like Katsudon or Tonkatsu is just a nightmare of mediocrity and heavy handed flavor waiting to happen.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #46 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:05:21 PM »

go go curry is hyper authentic, you will luv it

GET THE CHEESE

Eric P · « **Reply #47 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:10:45 PM »

i'll do so.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #48 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:46:52 PM »

I will not take a leap of faith into a bowl of cheese and curry.

Kobun Heat · « **Reply #49 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:18:33 PM »

Oh hello! First of all, Computer Jones is right: cheese is both delicious and the only creation myth that I subscribe to.

Also, from reading this story, does anyone else find it ironic that he was being sued under the "establishment clause"?

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #50 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:27:08 PM »

KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich · « **Reply #51 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:27:37 PM »

THE INTERNET'S CHRIS KOHLER, OF WIRED.COM?

Kobun Heat · « **Reply #52 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »

Well, I haven't actually READ Evilbore in all that time, but somebody pointed me to the Americurry reference, and I couldn't help but pimp my side project (and point out the irony in the original story).

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #53 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:30:14 PM »

I will never forgive Kohler for his failure to credit Masashi Hamauzu in his Samurai Legend Musashi review

not for as long as I live

Diunx · « **Reply #54 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:32:36 PM »

You should participate more, we are better than that other side.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #55 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:34:18 PM »

Start talking about the Beatles: Rock Band or get out.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #56 on:** May 04, 2009, 08:09:14 PM »

Quote from: Kosma on May 04, 2009, 07:38:59 PM

Quote from: Malek on May 04, 2009, 05:20:44 PM
Unlike Holocaust denial, it's not motivated by hatred. Well, okay, maybe hatred and disdain for education, but . . . not ethnic/racial hatred.

Both Holocaust and Creationalism are rooted in fear of the unknown though.

Yeah, they're both caused by ignorance--sometimes willful ignorance--but only the former is caused by malice.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #57 on:** May 04, 2009, 08:55:55 PM »

I'm not really giving credence to Creationism here. The earth being created in seven days is preposterous. The earth being 5000 years old is ridiculous.

I'm just not quite ready to think that everything that ever existed is a cosmic accident.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #58 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:00:27 PM »

Quote from: Bloodwake on May 04, 2009, 08:55:55 PM

I'm not really giving credence to Creationism here. The earth being created in seven days is preposterous. The earth being 5000 years old is ridiculous.

I'm just not quite ready to think that everything that ever existed is a cosmic accident.

You're not special; you were an accident. But mommy and daddy still love you.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #59 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:06:23 PM »

Quote from: Jinfash on May 04, 2009, 09:01:50 PM

Do creationists really think the earth is only 5000 y/o?

Young Earth Creationists do. They base their estimate of 6000 years on a kind of Biblical genealogy. lol

News:

Author Topic: High school science teacher sued, found guilty for insulting creationism (Read 4060 times)