Alpha Protocol

[MyNameIsMethodis]

I have a weird ass fucking bug with the PC version. If I get caught and let myself die, next time I respawn the game doesn't spawn any enemies at all. So I was able to kill the arabs bodyguard without actually having to fight anyone because thy werent spawned. Just got to run up to the mission marker.

Anyone else getting that bug?

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I heard someone on the gaf thread had "reload checkpoint and all enemies are missing" bug.

But considering there are like 100s of bugs reported in the gaf thread already, it's not a big deal.  We should be thankful that apparently no one's hit a game ending bug that's caused them to restart from scratch or something.  All the bugs are minor and harmless or resetting back 5 mins fixes them. 

Still, I wasn't around during the launch of a lot of the old-school buggy rpgs like Troika stuff, so it's exciting being a part of a super buggy game launch because you get all these  moments.

[demi]

Yeah, I heard someone on the gaf thread had "reload checkpoint and all enemies are missing" bug.

But considering there are like 100s of bugs reported in the gaf thread already, it's not a big deal.  We should be thankful that apparently no one's hit a game ending bug that's caused them to restart from scratch or something.  All the bugs are minor and harmless or resetting back 5 mins fixes them. 

Still, I wasn't around during the launch of a lot of the old-school buggy rpgs like Troika stuff, so it's exciting being a part of a super buggy game launch because you get all these  moments.

This makes no sense, congratulations

[Bebpo]

?

harmless bugs that are funny are good for a laugh. 

[demi]

The part where you're excited by being part of a super buggy game launch - where you been the past few years?

[Bebpo]

I dunno man, I can't think of any game I've played that's been crazy buggy like this in the last few years.  I feel like console games aren't anywhere near as buggy as PC games and since it's been console focused for a while games haven't been full of bugs.

Care to name some?

[MyNameIsMethodis]

Please don't ask him that, he's just going to name every PS3 exclusive and label them "buggy".

[Great Rumbler]

I have a weird ass fucking bug with the PC version. If I get caught and let myself die, next time I respawn the game doesn't spawn any enemies at all. So I was able to kill the arabs bodyguard without actually having to fight anyone because thy werent spawned. Just got to run up to the mission marker.

Anyone else getting that bug?

I had this happen too on one ocassion, but it only failed to respawn enemies in my immediate area, the rest in the level spawned as usual.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

Yeah that's usually what happens to me, it's just in the area but it happens almost every single time. It's funny.   


If you get caught though and die, does that count towards getting caught on the mission? Also, any tips for doing the computer hacking game on PC?

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah that's usually what happens to me, it's just in the area but it happens almost every single time. It's funny.   


If you get caught though and die, does that count towards getting caught on the mission? Also, any tips for doing the computer hacking game on PC?

There's a skill that makes hacking easier, you probably want to invest a few points in that. But, yeah, computer hacking makes my eyes bleed.  :'(

[demi]

I dunno man, I can't think of any game I've played that's been crazy buggy like this in the last few years.  I feel like console games aren't anywhere near as buggy as PC games and since it's been console focused for a while games haven't been full of bugs.

Care to name some?

Dragon Age

[Great Rumbler]

Definitely Dragon Age, I still liked it though.

[Bebpo]

Yeah I still haven't played DA beyond the first area.  Started as a mage, cleared the trial and then had to do chores around the library area and got bored.  Will play it some day.  I'm guessing most of the bugs are patched by now?

[demi]

Yep. Only Dragon Aage would nerf an entire class from the start

[Bebpo]

What class?

I'm still not sure if I want to do Mage or Soldier when I do play it.  I want both.  Where is my Paladin :X

[demi]

When the game was released, they had a Rogue's damage incorrectly calculated and made them completely useless (you could get around it by focusing on a different stat and applying a certain passive skill unlike what they normally used)

[Jansen]

the only enjoyment this game provides is to laugh at how ridiculously awful it is.   

obsidian should get an award for how fucking terrible the AI is.

[Great Rumbler]

the only enjoyment this game provides is to laugh at how ridiculously awful it is.   

Nah, I enjoy it because it's a fun game.

[Bebpo]

the only enjoyment this game provides is to laugh at how ridiculously awful it is.   

obsidian should get an award for how fucking terrible the AI is.

Seriously, play Peace Walker and tell me how the AI is any worse. 

I will give you reasons I think the AI is smarter in AP than MGS or Splinter Cell
1.  They can actually see pretty far and perks actually matter.  Knocking off -20% vision makes a huge difference.
2.  They can actually hear you depending on your sound dampening level.  Wear good armor with weak dampening and don't have good dampening perks and when you get a foot or two before you can do a stealth knockout they'll turn and start shooting you
3.  The game actually reacts to what you do.  If you murder 50 people on the way to room #3, then when you enter room #3 all the guards will be alert and sweeping the room looking for you even if you haven't set off any alarms.  They'll also be wearing bulletproof vests and helmets.


Maybe the AI is bad if you play it like a shooter since they don't use Halo tactics to try to sneak around you and work as a team.  But they're not any worse than your typical TPS in that scope.  They run at you and shoot and considering you die in like 10 seconds that's actually pretty smart of them since they'll kill you before you can kill them in a straight on shooting fight with multiple guards against you unless you use skills.

[cool breeze]

The AI is terrible.  I got through my stealth run by doing the silent run or invisibility.  Even without those, there would be times when Mike would take a guy out feet away from the enemy, but because their back was turned, it didn't matter.  The only nice thing about the AI is that if an enemy spots you, the alarm won't go off like crazy.  They physically need to run to the alarm panel and signal others.  Even that has been done far better in stealth games from a decade ago, like, think shooting out pocket radios in MGS2.

I only played the Peace Walker demo and the AI was there.  But to be fair, the AI in Alpha Protocol is probably better than the AI in the Splinter Cell Conviction demo.

In my shooting run now, using the assault rifle is surprisingly not that bad.  It's better than ME1 combat, at least, and gets better as I upgrade.  I'm also surprised by how different the game is playing as a raging asshole.  Like, at one point I pissed off an arms dealer and when I was going to assault a location, the people guarding it were now heavily armed soldiers.  In my previous run they were just regular security dudes and I was able to get past them by shooting the shit.  Here, I just resorted to shooting him in the face because he was all about checking my credentials. 

[Smooth Groove]

What class?

I'm still not sure if I want to do Mage or Soldier when I do play it.  I want both.  Where is my Paladin :X

Paladin's my favorite class as well.  Good taste, bruh.   

[pilonv1]

I have a weird ass fucking bug with the PC version. If I get caught and let myself die, next time I respawn the game doesn't spawn any enemies at all.

I got one during the Saudi levels (but never again interestingly) of when I reload a checkpoint with or without dying, every guard that has spawned is on alert and running for me.

[Bebpo]

The AI is terrible.  I got through my stealth run by doing the silent run or invisibility.  Even without those, there would be times when Mike would take a guy out feet away from the enemy, but because their back was turned, it didn't matter.  The only nice thing about the AI is that if an enemy spots you, the alarm won't go off like crazy.  They physically need to run to the alarm panel and signal others.  Even that has been done far better in stealth games from a decade ago, like, think shooting out pocket radios in MGS2.

I only played the Peace Walker demo and the AI was there.  But to be fair, the AI in Alpha Protocol is probably better than the AI in the Splinter Cell Conviction demo.

In my shooting run now, using the assault rifle is surprisingly not that bad.  It's better than ME1 combat, at least, and gets better as I upgrade.  I'm also surprised by how different the game is playing as a raging asshole.  Like, at one point I pissed off an arms dealer and when I was going to assault a location, the people guarding it were now heavily armed soldiers.  In my previous run they were just regular security dudes and I was able to get past them by shooting the shit.  Here, I just resorted to shooting him in the face because he was all about checking my credentials. 

I noticed you can destroy the alarms too and then they can't turn them on  
The only thing that bugs me are the turrets auto-alarming if they see you.  And that for some reason when the boss fight on the Moscow boat starts it always triggers the alarm wtfff

I screwed up my 2nd run build so bad.  I thought Shotgun would be like Gears or Doom or any other shotgun and 1 hit kill any enemy at close range.  So I thought I could do Toughness/Shotgun and just walk in like the terminator and shoot every guy.  Problem is the shotgun SUCKS.  Unless you are 2 feet away and pointing at their head it won't 1 hit kill them.  A chest shot at 5 feet takes like 3-4 shots to kill 1 guy and from 10 feet you can't hit anything.  I actually might get stuck completely in this run and have to cheat and give myself AP to put into AR since I have nothing in AR or SMG or Pistol.  Also shotgun doesn't hurt bosses like AT ALL.  I had to get through the Moscow boat boss by spamming grenades nonstop 

[Bebpo]

Also, about AI.  What do people expect for AI in a stealth game? 

It seems to me like all the stealth games I play have an AI that walks in a patrol with a cone of vision and limited hearing and if the player gets near that cone (out of distance) or is lightly heard they investigate (or if there is an explosion or a loud noise they go and investigate) and if the player actually falls within their cone of vision they attack the player or go for their radio/alarm.  Cameras sweep spots and sound alarms if you get nearby and turrets sweep areas and shoot and set alarms if you get in their range.

If I was designing a stealth game I really don't know what I would add to that.  It's the same exact AI pattern that has been there since MGS1 and is in every stealth game.  I don't see how it's "bad" because the idea is that the player watches the patrol patterns, looks for openings and sneaks past or up on them.  AP just makes it easier because you have cheat skills available like cloaking or masking your footsteps.  But that's cool because it's fun and satisfying to cheat stealth gameplay with limited time rpg skills. 

Coming directly from having played 40+ hours of Peace Walker I enjoyed the stealth gameplay a ton in AP.  It was really satisfying and it was like revenge for having to be so careful in Peace Walker (because of skills like shadow operative and silent runnning).

[cool breeze]

The idea behind it is the same as old stealth games, but the enemies act like they live in their own world.  It's hard to explain.  Um, it's things like the enemies seeming to take five times longer than normal to wait around with their backs turned, or not noticing events happening two feet to their side.  That is just how the mechanics are.  There were so many situations where I was in the middle of a stealth kill animation, another guy literally is running into me knocking this other guy out, and then it goes right into the animation of me taking this second guy out.  And it's one thing for you to be invisible, but when you have an enemy that watches four guys magically get knocked around, you'd think they'd react.  It would be a lot easier if I had fraps open to take some videos to show it off.

I'm sticking with the stealth and action in this game being bad but inoffensive.  It doesn't get in the way of what I like about the game is what I'm trying to say.   

[Jansen]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[demi]

It's like Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell, that's normal

[MyNameIsMethodis]

Woah, I just realized my PC version doesn't have self shadowing wtf

[pilonv1]

As good as the branching and writing is, some of the disjointedness of it is negative. Occasionally I'll get lost, but work it out eventually.

[cool breeze]

yeah, the worst part of the game is that it feels rushed at the ending and a lot of stuff from the middle of the game (Moscow, Rome, Taipei) just seems unresolved or forgotten in favor of wrapping up the main story.  That middle section is the most interesting part of the game, especially how the order and choices in one city can have an impact on the next.  There will probably never be a sequel, but if they had a three city -> three city order where the main plot thread is created based on various factors, that would be more interesting.  The way the game plays it up, it makes it seem like the various organizations you interact with are shady.

[Smooth Groove]

Anything this hot in Alpha Protocol?

[demi]

That's probably the copy I sent back. What a piece of shit game

[chronovore]

i wish i would have stopped playing this before i got an achievement. now i feel compelled to finish this fucking turd

NO! Leave the single 'cheev; as time passes it will serve as a warning to any "Compare Games..." Friends on your list who are considering picking up the game.

[pilonv1]

This game is great. I did the Villa mission in rome last night, came into a room with 6 guys, popped the Invisible perk, KO'd 3 guards, popped Brilliance, popped the invisible perk again and KO'd the remaining 3.

Obsidian are fantastic.

[Smooth Groove]

Such different responses...who to trust?

[Great Rumbler]

This game is great. I did the Villa mission in rome last night, came into a room with 6 guys, popped the Invisible perk, KO'd 3 guards, popped Brilliance, popped the invisible perk again and KO'd the remaining 3.

Obsidian are fantastic.

I make good use of the shadow operative ability and the chain shot ability. Especially the latter, which is amazingly awesome.

Such different responses...who to trust?

Whether you like the game or not is largely going to depend on what you're looking for in the game. If you want a streamlined shooter with RPG-level character interaction, that's Mass Effect 2. If you want a real-time RPG with lots of skills to obtain and use and a series of choices that have a direct impact on the story, that's Alpha Protocol.

[demi]

If you want a game developed by college students, that's Alpha Protocol

[Great Rumbler]

If you want a game developed by college students, that's Alpha Protocol

I don't think they ever even went to college. Demi annihilated.

[demi]

You right, I am giving them too much benefit

[demi]

* Why can't I knock people out by zip lining?

* Why does being caught once say 2 alarms went off at the end of the training mission?

Jesus I could write a novel on how shit this is

[Smooth Groove]

Too bad that novel will also be shit 'cause you didn't go to College. 

[demi]

Since when did that matter? I'll just call it Alpha Protocol

[Smooth Groove]

Then Rumbler and Bebpo will defend your book for its high quality if people would only read it upside down. 

[Great Rumbler]

Then Rumbler and Bebpo will defend your book for its high quality if people would only read it upside down. 

It's not a Western-developed RPG, so no.

[Smooth Groove]

Such different responses...who to trust?

You should just rent it and ignore the thread.

Not an option.  If I played it, it would be the superior PC version. 

[Great Rumbler]

Such different responses...who to trust?

You should just rent it and ignore the thread.

Not an option.  If I played it, it would be the superior PC version. 

The PC has a lot less glitches than the console versions and, somewhere down the road, the modding community will probably put out a few fan patches.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

I knocked someone out on the zip line, Demi annihilated.

[demi]

I did too. And?

[Smooth Groove]

Such different responses...who to trust?

You should just rent it and ignore the thread.

Not an option.  If I played it, it would be the superior PC version. 

Well then I'll guess you'll have to man up and just buy the game. I know buying games is not an option for a lot of PC gamers but I think you'll make due.

I'll rather get Alan Wake first.  Wanna sell me Demi's copy when you're done?

[demi]

He cant give you his info when he's banned.

[Smooth Groove]

WTF 

Shouldn't you be banning Slime instead? 

Don't worry, I'm calling his bluff. Everyone knows PC Gamers don't buy any games unless they're 95% off on Steam.

I've never been too fond of Steam although they do have some great sales.  It's a real hassle when I want to move folders around or mod.  I get my PC games more often from Fry's which usually have discounted prices much earlier than Steam. 

[demi]

WTF 

Shouldn't you be banning Slime instead? 

I'm biased and he's hot so he fits my needs. What can you offer?

[Smooth Groove]

My weight has gone up from 180 to 200 in the past year. 

[Bebpo]

AP is not for everyone.  It either clicks with you and it's total fun and you love it or it doesn't and you get aggravated/bored and you hate it.

I'd like to use the "people who it doesn't click with are playing it wrong card" but I don't have good evidence to support that claim atm.

* Why can't I knock people out by zip lining?

* Why does being caught once say 2 alarms went off at the end of the training mission?

Jesus I could write a novel on how shit this is

1.  You can knock out people by zip lining into them

2.  I dunno, game glitched.  Who cares. 

[Great Rumbler]

AP is not for everyone.  It either clicks with you and it's total fun and you love it or it doesn't and you get aggravated/bored and you hate it.

The review scores show this pretty well. There are some 4's, a few 5's, a bunch of 6's, some 7's, and even a grouping of 8's.

[pilonv1]

Gelato Shop mission is awesome.

[demi]

You don't just "knock into them" - I did that plenty of times. They have to specifically be standing at the other end of their AI path. Otherwise you just coast into them and they're like DUH HUH THERES A GUY FLYING AT ME

[cool breeze]

um, what if I like Alpha Protocol but think most of the action stuff is crap? because I like Alpha Protocol but think most of the action stuff is crap.

there are occasionally interesting action based missions where getting through completely undetected, or killing a bunch of civilians, can have something interesting pop up.  For the most part, all that stuff is the the toll I pay to get to what I liked about the game, and it was all the choice and consequence stuff.  I might even say the appeal has more in common with Heavy Rain than anything else.

I like that stuff in games.  I mean, WOTS3 wasn't a good game either, but I really liked it because it was cool to just roll around town as a samurai and have your actions impact the story, how people treat you, etc.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, that's why I really like the WoTS games too.  Haven't played 3 yet.  How does that kind of stuff compare to 1/2?

Gelato Shop mission is awesome.

The first time I played it I thought the guy was actually just a gelatto shop owner.  I walked in, upgraded his servers, walked out.
The 2nd time he pulled a shotgun on me when I blew my cover and I realized he wasn't a shop owner!

[pilonv1]

I had the first one that you did. I tried to give him the passphrase twice and he blew me off. Then he got suspicious and I bluffed some PC knowledge and he left me alone. Awesome short mission that could have gone so many ways.

um, what if I like Alpha Protocol but think most of the action stuff is crap?

I think that's the general consensus from anyone who's played a decent amount of it.