What are you playing?

[demi]

Well, he's right. Most other FFs you would still be in the tutorial or some bullshit. Ifrit Cave anyone?

[Himu]

Well, he's right. Most other FFs you would still be in the tutorial or some bullshit. Ifrit Cave anyone?

The first 7 hours are still part of FF13's tutorial. The tutorial lasts for over 20 hours.

[demi]

Must have played different games. I was playing the game from the start.

Meanwhile I was still having Quistis tell me how to Draw Magic... like uh, whatever

[brob]

20 hour tutorial? how much of the game does that make up? sounds strange/insane

[Raban]

Made it to Disc 2 in Final Fantasy XIII at 7.5 hours, made it to the 8 hour mark before stopping. Lightning

Also picked up Dissidia Duodecim Prologus on PSP (that $3 demo version of Dissidia 2). S-E is genius for putting this out. $3 is about all I want to spend on Final Fantasy fanwank, and the prologue comes with enough content to satisfy my needs.

Wait, you tried to actually try to argue with me that Final Fantasy XIII is one of the best Final Fantasy's with only 7 hours on the clock.

You should've just ignored my opinion on FF in the first place, since I haven't gotten past the 15 hour mark in a single one of them. I plan to make XIII the first one I actually complete...

[Himu]

20 hour tutorial? how much of the game does that make up? sounds strange/insane

In my case it was more like 25 hours. But I played FF13 for 50 and sold it the very next day.

You don't get a full party for about 23 hours and you can't do a sidequest for 25 hours.

[brob]

strange/insane

[demi]

Good, nobody likes juggling party members since you dont use half of them anyway and sidequests are stupid. 13

[Himu]

strange/insane

or the other option, shitty

[Himu]

Demi, you do know you can skip the tutorials Quistis gives you by pressing the cancel button, right?

[demi]

Never got that far. Game sucks.

[MrAngryFace]

I finished both games- love em. People bitch about the gameplay but its got SKILLZ and CRAFTIN and GRAPHIX- im there

[Himu]

i thought you didn't like ff13, maf

[demi]

I think he's talking about Dissidia.

[MrAngryFace]

I dumped crazy hours into Dissidia and Duodecim- the item crafting!

[demi]

Does Duodecim include everything from Dissidia - mainly the story etc? Can I just buy Duodecim and play what Dissidia has to offer? Or do you have to play both to get the most out of the series.

[demi]

Wiki says this

Alongside the game's new story mode, the game also includes the first game's story, which has been remade with the 3D world map as well as additional elements added for the new storyline.

So I can just play Duodecim and be good...

[tiesto]

Beat Trine with all secrets/experience/treasures. A few achievements I haven't gotten, but whatever, I'm done for now. Good game, the last level and the secret level were cool and no where near as hard as I expected. I beat the last level on my first try, though I had to replay the level because I beat it without getting a few experience from the monsters at the end. Fuck the bats in the game, that was the worst part. And the music wasn't that great... especially since the game is Finnish, and there are plenty of great Finnish music acts.

[MrAngryFace]

Includes both stories- the difference is that you have to play through the duodecim story to get to the original story. There are some differences in game modes- imo, the original arena/card mode in dissidia was better than the dungeon mode in duodecim...for reasons involving crafting and high level play mainly.

[Positive Touch]

Well, he's right. Most other FFs you would still be in the tutorial or some bullshit. Ifrit Cave anyone?

you get to ifrit cave in the first five minutes   at seven hours in ff8 you should be nearing the end of disc 1, which means you'll go to ifrit cave, play the whole demo mission, go through the first laugna flashback, go to the school dance , fight a hidden boss, disable a train, raid a tv station, explore 3 towns, raid that shitty tomb, meet a cowboy, play the shit out of some triple triad, and try to assassinate a witch. 

at seven hours in ff13 youre still trying to get the shitty taste of the junkyard out of your mouth while you walk down another corridor full of enemies auto-battle will kill with literally no effort on yr part

[Himu]

Well, he's right. Most other FFs you would still be in the tutorial or some bullshit. Ifrit Cave anyone?

you get to ifrit cave in the first five minutes   at seven hours in ff8 you should be nearing the end of disc 1, which means you'll go to ifrit cave, play the whole demo mission, go through the first laugna flashback, go to the school dance , fight a hidden boss, disable a train, raid a tv station, explore 3 towns, raid that shitty tomb, meet a cowboy, play the shit out of some triple triad, and try to assassinate a witch. 

at seven hours in ff13 youre still trying to get the shitty taste of the junkyard out of your mouth while you walk down another corridor full of enemies auto-battle will kill with literally no effort on yr part

[magus]

at seven hours

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

it never gets old

[close]

[Himu]

at seven hours

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

it never gets old

[close]

Spoony sucks.

[demi]

rofl, nailed it. FF8 is so bad. Glad 13 removed this tedium... same reason why 6 is garbage. Espers zzzzzzzzzz

[demi]

Well, he's right. Most other FFs you would still be in the tutorial or some bullshit. Ifrit Cave anyone?

you get to ifrit cave in the first five minutes   at seven hours in ff8 you should be nearing the end of disc 1, which means you'll go to ifrit cave, play the whole demo mission, go through the first laugna flashback, go to the school dance , fight a hidden boss, disable a train, raid a tv station, explore 3 towns, raid that shitty tomb, meet a cowboy, play the shit out of some triple triad, and try to assassinate a witch. 

at seven hours in ff13 youre still trying to get the shitty taste of the junkyard out of your mouth while you walk down another corridor full of enemies auto-battle will kill with literally no effort on yr part

Never got that far. Game sucks.

[Raban]

For the record, I think FF8 is pretty cool. The last time I sat down to play it I got up to the second BGH251F2 boss fight and got stuck, I don't think I was using junctioning or leveling my GFs at all. I've gone back and screwed with those things and I really enjoy it. Fussing through FF8's menus is actually kind of awesome.

[chronovore]

Finished Enslaved: Odyssey to the West. It was fun, and pretty. The story end was not as wanky as I'd expected, but it could have used a little more explanation.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, "Pyramid." I guess Serkis' live-action character is, ironically, supposed to represent a virtual creation, either an AI or a representation of who the old-man controller once was. Pyramid is gathering slaves, and forcing them to live a pre-recorded life of the original incarnation of Serkis' character? Pyramid is a repository for memories, which will loop endlessly for anyone caught by them. They think they're happy, but they're living in a fantasy, devoted to the past.

[close]

That's potentially deep, if executed well, but it's unclear why this is a raison d'etre for slaver(s). The only downside is Serkis' performance is intentionally bereft of emotion, and facial expression, leaving the only live-action performance less nuanced than the polygonal models' performances.

Fun game. 7/10, worth the money and time. Will mop up a few 'cheevos at some point. Probably go back to Mafia 2 in order to clear it before Saints Row 3 arrives and blows every other OWG out of the water. Or maybe Dark Souls before I forget the controls.

[Himu]

I couldn't finish Enslaved. The more I played, the more it offended my sensibilities as a Journey to the West fan.

[chronovore]

I liked the sense of travel, of going places. Each location or region has a beautiful and distinctive sense of place.

The Leviathan, I know it's played for laughs, but that is one ugly piece of crap mecha design, compared to everything else, which is great looking. I know it's supposed to be Pigsy, writ large, and Pigsy is by no means easy on the eyes, but MAN, that's ugly.

Also, worth watching for Trip: 'dat ass. Could the animators have thought of any more excuses to get her on all fours? They seemed to have exhausted every opportunity.

Cleared a few more Achievements, going to put it aside, possibly permanently. There are a few more I want to mop up, but I don't want to feel sick of this game.

[Himu]

Played some GTAIV for the first time in a while and I still hate the car physics and wanted system. They are just awful.

I especially hate the two in combination with each other. Crappy boat physics, in the middle of a chase, try to handbrake to shake cops off, end up skidding into a building. Then I try to shake the cops off but can't because of the painful tedium caused by cop cars spawns and cops that are just as fast, if not faster, than me. Cue five minute car chase for a measly two stars.

I just get so frustrated because clearly I'm missing something that wouldn't make this whole process so annoying, but I never have fun with it. It doesn't help that the map is so ridiculously small, even on my hdtv.

I really like GTAIV, but then every time I try to play it something gets in the way of my enjoyment: either the slow, sluggish controls, or the lack of a modernized melee system, or the crappy car physics that makes every vehicle feel like a boat, to the fact the first 20-25 missions are nothing but tutorials, to the horrific wanted system.

Jesus fuck on a conservatard's piece of breakfast toast, thank god for Saints Row.

[chronovore]

How strange, I was just thinking about going back and trying to 80% or 100% The Ballad of Gay Tony missions.

I've gone off on this tirade before, in GTA-related threads, but it's a truly remarkable disparity: GTA lets you feel like a Navy SEAL with any weapon you pick up, you can snap off headshots like no-one's business at extreme range for the weapon. You can loose 3-round bursts with Special Forces accuracy. And then you get into a car, and it's like a 15-year-old getting in with the Driver's Education instructor for the first time, every time. The cars spin out whenever possible, they drive like a sloshy great whale even when making mild lane changes going straight down a boulevard.

Maybe the car handling is realistic. Maybe it's not. But it's not representative of the same level of control the player experiences with firearms.

As for the melee system, I disagree that it's antiquated. It's overly complex, and the two flavors of middleware mitigating character motion from player input are in a constant fight, so it feels like the inputs are ignored. But the combat options are, theoretically, deep. It's just that someone will shoot you in the face and kill you while you're trying to punch them.

[Himu]

Read this, chrono.

http://www.destructoid.com/bye-bye-lead-foot-a-gta-iv-driving-guide-84579.phtml

Since we seem to be the GTA fanatics here, it'd be fun to do. I mean, till Saints Row The Third comes out. It was mostly the GTAV announcement that got me to do it, haha.

I remember the main tip to driving in GTAIV is to take it slow, don't use handbrake except for tight corners, when you want to make a turn, treat it like driving in real like. Ergo, driving at full speed while making a turn will make your car get tipsy turvy and you will hit everything on the street, and braking is the greatest asset. It's not like other games where if you brake you will get an almost instantaneous brake -- no, you need to hold that thing for at least five seconds before you make a turn to slow your car down.

That's making things more enjoyable. GTAIV requires a specific "mode" to be in, I think. I can't play it like other sandbox games because the controls are that much more sluggish. I have to get in a frame of mind to enjoy to its fullest extent. Which is weird, because normally I'm able to go from game to game with no hassle even at the slightest change in controls. But if I go from, say, Saints Row 2 to GTAIV? Jesus Fuck. The driving is maddening. I guess that says a lot about my tastes, I simply prefer arcade style.

The padding itself is also dreadful.

First mission of Saints Row 2? You come back to life after a 2 year coma, you break out of a maximum protection prison facility, you blow a few choppers, kill a few cops, get at least two to three weapons ranging from a regular pistol, to police bat, to a shotgun, can drive a few cars if you want (police), and end up in a chase with police on a boat enroute to the city of Stilwater, equipped with a gatling gun which you use to raise hell on the poor blues chasing you.

All of that in, maybe 10-15? minutes. Then you go to a bar, whack a dude in the face with a beer bottle, and break your buddy out of court so he can escape the confines of death row.

By the end of the first hour of GTAIV, I'm doing errands for Roman, I JUST got my first gun, and I've been bowling. Yawn. GTA needs a fucking editor.

[iconoclast]

Got 634m in Futari Maniac now... only 6 mil from the western record. I would've gotten a much higher score if I didn't have two stupid deaths on stages 2 and 3 as well. 

Oh well, I'm sure I'll beat it eventually. Might even break 700m if everything goes perfectly.

[magus]

i'm starting to remember why i stopped playing terranigma,the game can get so mazey and grindy at times that it's really annoying,i've wandered around like an idiot for a good 30 minutes but i still have no idea where the fuck i'm supposed to go

ooohhh but i'm getting to the end of it,this time!

[iconoclast]

I think I'm gonna marathon Duke Nukem Forever today.  Both DNF and El Shaddai have been sitting on my desk, mocking me for wasting so much money on renting them and not playing them because they're awful. Gotta get them out of the way already and make room for Uncharted/Sonic/Rayman/other decent games.

[Raban]

I've gone off on this tirade before, in GTA-related threads, but it's a truly remarkable disparity: GTA lets you feel like a Navy SEAL with any weapon you pick up, you can snap off headshots like no-one's business at extreme range for the weapon. You can loose 3-round bursts with Special Forces accuracy. And then you get into a car, and it's like a 15-year-old getting in with the Driver's Education instructor for the first time, every time. The cars spin out whenever possible, they drive like a sloshy great whale even when making mild lane changes going straight down a boulevard.

Maybe the car handling is realistic. Maybe it's not. But it's not representative of the same level of control the player experiences with firearms.

As for the melee system, I disagree that it's antiquated. It's overly complex, and the two flavors of middleware mitigating character motion from player input are in a constant fight, so it feels like the inputs are ignored. But the combat options are, theoretically, deep. It's just that someone will shoot you in the face and kill you while you're trying to punch them.

It is, it's just a different kind of control.

Have either of you ever played a driving sim before? The driving is awfully similar to that, but instead of just turning out of the track when you make a poor decision, you go pinballing through traffic. For a game called Grand Theft Auto, it'd be pretty laughable if they borked the driving, right? It's simply different.

I absolutely understand where fellows like you and Himu come from on this point. In games like Saint's Row and to an extent the earlier GTA games, cars were merely used as the fastest means of transportation from one point to another. In GTAIV, the car driving is the game. It's where all the game's depth is. Time spent driving and learning the mechanics behind it only improves your skills. When I popped in GTAIV for the very first time around 2AM on launch day, I hated it just as much as you guys. After beating it twice since then, it's probably my favorite game this gen because of how the driving mechanics allowed me to come back and learn something new each time. I think Rockstar's goal was to implement a driving system that actually had a learning curve, and they did so successfully.

Read this, chrono. That's making things more enjoyable. GTAIV requires a specific "mode" to be in, I think. I can't play it like other sandbox games because the controls are that much more sluggish. I have to get in a frame of mind to enjoy to its fullest extent. Which is weird, because normally I'm able to go from game to game with no hassle even at the slightest change in controls. But if I go from, say, Saints Row 2 to GTAIV? Jesus Fuck. The driving is maddening. I guess that says a lot about my tastes, I simply prefer arcade style.

Let me try to help. GTAIV isn't a sandbox game. I know it seems like it and you want to be one, but it isn't. It's an open-world game. If that isn't a clear enough distinction, Saint's Row is clearly designed to be a game filled with crazy toys for you to find and play with. Everything in those games is in service to that goal. GTAIV's focus is clearly developing the character of its city and the people that live inside it. You aren't supposed to be able to just walk up to any car like the city is a showroom and jack it. Rockstar wanted you to feel like each crime you commit was a conscious decision. The way the animation plays out as you attempt to steal a locked car leads me to believe GTAIV had a car-jacking minigame at some point (Chinatown Wars did) and actually kinda does (tapping the triggers). It's not exactly perfect, but that's what GTAV is for.

Every time I read EB's impressions of GTAIV I feel like we played different games, but the amount of hours I've enjoyed playing GTAIV far outweigh the hours that frustrated me. Sure the missions at the outset suck and continue to flounder throughout the rest of the game, but this is true for every GTA. The point is that Rockstar fixed literally everything else wrong with the previous games (cept maybe the on-foot controls wtf ).

EDIT: Oh and I will admit the removal of stuff like real R3 missions and end-game rewards, and the constant nagging of the cell phone (which can be turned off) really bums me out. Too much of the post-game content is trivial mini-game bullshit, not things that would actually test my skills at GTAIV.

[demi]

I think all those pounds you're shedding are from your brain

[Raban]

I spend an incredible amount of time considering the criticisms towards GTAIV. I would love to help you and anyone else with a sour first impression enjoy it, but it seems like most of you are satisfied with Volition's answer, and that's cool too. I'm glad they did it crazy so Rockstar got to do GTAIV, and I'm even happier that the consensus is that this was a good move.

[Raban]

Get your numbers out of here, we're talking about actually playing games

[Raban]

20+ million is a pretty large number regardless, and GTAIV still has the highest review scores of any game this gen*
*according to Metacritic

I mean, it's not exactly like Rockstar was hazed for GTAIV.

[Himu]

What consensus? There IS no consensus. GTAIV is the core definition of a game that splits the fanbase. Emphasis on fanbase, and not the media. The media will always be wank. If you were using the media as a consensus I dunno what to say.

[Raban]

Sorry if you don't listen to sales and the media, but game publishers do.

[Himu]

Anyways, Raban, considering it an open world game and not a sandbox game makes things easier, thanks for the reply.

[maxy]

GTA 4 driving is fine,people that moan about it have no clue about driving.

[Himu]

One thing I have to say is that after visiting/living in NYC for a minute, I like the game even more. This will be my NYC game. My sweet home that isn't my home anymore

GTA 4 driving is fine,people that moan about it have no clue about driving.

 

[maxy]

or they prefer the less realistic but more fun controls of previous games.

yeah,nothing to add here

as for himu


if you want to drive boats on a road then i would suggest driving certain russian transport vehicles

[magus]

i think i just want to punch someone....

so you need to cure this princess from an ailment,to do so you need a mushroom which is hidden in a forest,you need this mushroom to get a potion,you need this potion to make a thief free,you need to make the thief free,to get a bell,you need the bell to cross the lost wood ripoff because the previous dungeon wasn't already labirintine and frustating enough

geebus that's obtuse fetch questing at it's finest

[naff]

For the record, I found the driving physics in GTAIV to have little to no learning curve because it was much more intuitive than previous installments. I don't get where the criticism comes for it, within seconds of getting in a car I was speeding through traffic no probs. The driving in previous GTAs was pretty shit, not because it was too arcadey, I love arcade racers, but because it plain sucked. The driving model was whack, kinda fun in an annoying janky way but crap all the same.

[Bebpo]

Started playing Infamous 2 again.  It's fun but the mission design is kind of so-so.  Feels very repetitive after an hour or two.

[chronovore]

Maybe the car handling is realistic. Maybe it's not. But it's not representative of the same level of control the player experiences with firearms.

It is, it's just a different kind of control.

Have either of you ever played a driving sim before? The driving is awfully similar to that, but instead of just turning out of the track when you make a poor decision, you go pinballing through traffic. For a game called Grand Theft Auto, it'd be pretty laughable if they borked the driving, right? It's simply different.

I'ma let you finish, but let me just say this. Beyoncé is a better Open World Game than GTA IV, and she deserves this award.

No, ok, seriously: The sentence up there, that prefaces your argument, it's wrong. The rest of your statements, I agree with and can get behind. Or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to state, and so your counter-statement is misconstrued?

The shooting in GTA, the grab-cover, lock-on, shift-aim-just-slightly, and FIRE routine is ABSURDLY simple and requires about 5 minutes in game to grasp. After that, there is NO MORE LEARNING. It is what it is, and you're a firearms EXPERT CHAMPION GOD.

The driving, in contrast, by your own admission, is a simulation model. It benefits greatly from practice. Endlessly.

That's different from shooting.

[chronovore]

Read this, chrono.

http://www.destructoid.com/bye-bye-lead-foot-a-gta-iv-driving-guide-84579.phtml

Since we seem to be the GTA fanatics here, it'd be fun to do. I mean, till Saints Row The Third comes out. It was mostly the GTAV announcement that got me to do it, haha.

I remember the main tip to driving in GTAIV is to take it slow, don't use handbrake except for tight corners, when you want to make a turn, treat it like driving in real like. Ergo, driving at full speed while making a turn will make your car get tipsy turvy and you will hit everything on the street, and braking is the greatest asset. It's not like other games where if you brake you will get an almost instantaneous brake -- no, you need to hold that thing for at least five seconds before you make a turn to slow your car down.

That's making things more enjoyable. GTAIV requires a specific "mode" to be in, I think. I can't play it like other sandbox games because the controls are that much more sluggish. I have to get in a frame of mind to enjoy to its fullest extent. Which is weird, because normally I'm able to go from game to game with no hassle even at the slightest change in controls. But if I go from, say, Saints Row 2 to GTAIV? Jesus Fuck. The driving is maddening. I guess that says a lot about my tastes, I simply prefer arcade style.

The padding itself is also dreadful.

First mission of Saints Row 2? You come back to life after a 2 year coma, you break out of a maximum protection prison facility, you blow a few choppers, kill a few cops, get at least two to three weapons ranging from a regular pistol, to police bat, to a shotgun, can drive a few cars if you want (police), and end up in a chase with police on a boat enroute to the city of Stilwater, equipped with a gatling gun which you use to raise hell on the poor blues chasing you.

All of that in, maybe 10-15? minutes. Then you go to a bar, whack a dude in the face with a beer bottle, and break your buddy out of court so he can escape the confines of death row.

By the end of the first hour of GTAIV, I'm doing errands for Roman, I JUST got my first gun, and I've been bowling. Yawn. GTA needs a fucking editor.

Man, now I'm so excited for SR3. I watched about half the opening mission the other day, then turned it off because I don't want to spoil it entirely. Good grief, it looks sooo gooooood.

Thanks for the link.

[Himu]

I forgot how much the entire Mikhail scenario in GTAIV is aces. I'm getting back to used to playing it. Game has such a learning curve but the controls really don't help. I find the shooting/on foot controls worse than the driving controls at this point on my replay.

Also: "Niko, tell me interesting things!"

I just have such a rocky relationship with this game. When it's good it's REALLY good and I REALLY like it despite its shortcomings. I like the game more than San Andreas, that's for sure.

[Raban]

Maybe the car handling is realistic. Maybe it's not. But it's not representative of the same level of control the player experiences with firearms.

It is, it's just a different kind of control.

Have either of you ever played a driving sim before? The driving is awfully similar to that, but instead of just turning out of the track when you make a poor decision, you go pinballing through traffic. For a game called Grand Theft Auto, it'd be pretty laughable if they borked the driving, right? It's simply different.

I'ma let you finish, but let me just say this. Beyoncé is a better Open World Game than GTA IV, and she deserves this award.

No, ok, seriously: The sentence up there, that prefaces your argument, it's wrong. The rest of your statements, I agree with and can get behind. Or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to state, and so your counter-statement is misconstrued?

The shooting in GTA, the grab-cover, lock-on, shift-aim-just-slightly, and FIRE routine is ABSURDLY simple and requires about 5 minutes in game to grasp. After that, there is NO MORE LEARNING. It is what it is, and you're a firearms EXPERT CHAMPION GOD.

The driving, in contrast, by your own admission, is a simulation model. It benefits greatly from practice. Endlessly.

That's different from shooting.

I read your statement as saying that the player has a high level of control over the shooting in GTAIV. This is also true of the driving. You have an incredible amount of control over it.

But in terms of complexity/depth, yeah I totally agree. It takes a few minutes for anyone who has touched a shooter before to land a headshot 100% of the time in GTAIV, and the driving has a steep learning curve, yes.

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm an experienced driver. I've driven lots of different cars, hard, on streets and tracks. Gta4's cars do not handle realistically. They all handle like 80s Chevy Astros.

[demi]

I'm an experienced driver. I've driven lots of different cars, hard, on streets and tracks. Gta4's cars do not handle realistically. They all handle like 80s Chevy Astros.

Raban destroyed. All there is to it.

[iconoclast]

Fuck yes.

1.5 - X360 - Maniac - Reco
694,993,138 - ALL (Lx2) - Normal

No missed up to Larsa. I don't think I'll be able to do much better than this, unless I learn more advanced strategies, which I don't think I'll bother with any time soon. I'll take my western record for the time being, though I don't think it's going to last very long since the best western Futari player is starting up 1.5 Maniac. Oh wellz.

[Himu]

I like the game more than San Andreas, that's for sure.

blasphemy.

hey CJ, you wanna head to do some menial tutorial mission? SA has more padding than IV. It is hard to replay that game.

[Himu]

I like IV more than SA because I don't like the car physics in SA. SA's cars are windy. If you hit ANYTHING, and I mean, ANYTHING, your car will switch angles like a cock slut pleasuring a group of dude's dicks. Also, SA, while fun, has a pacing problem, is entirely far too long, has an interesting place to play with your toys, but has too many missions where you drive from fucking San Fierro to some faraway place. Just gets annoying.

If I do any side mission in SA, whether it's  taxi missions or pimp missions, it's almost always universally easy as shit, it's just that i have to put like so much effort to drive here or there, because the location is so big. It'll take you like 2-3 full minutes to go from one fare in Los Santos to another fare, simply due to the city being so big. IV's problem was a lack of content, SA's problem was the opposite problem: a lack of focus and bloat, bloat, bloat. So you start out as a gang banger in a Boys in the Hood story, who somehow gets involved with the government, steals a jetpack, and goes home to make Samuel L. Jackson fall off a firetruck. Gone are the mission designs that evoked a sense of creativity from III and VC, though there were plenty of gems in SA (burning a weed field being one of my favorites).

On top of this, CJ sucks. CJ is a total bitch. "You want me to kill them?!?!?!?!" Buster.

[Himu]

Niko didn't really bitch much about killing people like CJ did, though. Someone asks him to kill someone, Niko says "who". Both are flawed characters for this reason, but CJ takes the butt of it because he's so whiny about it. Niko's not whiny about it, he's just hypocritical.

Both suck, though.

It's all about Tommy Vercetti. That, or Claude. I'll take Claude over any GTA lead except Tommy. Dude has no lip, no fuss. You want me to assassinate my boss? Sure. Whatever. Who cares, he's a wimp. Claude As for pick up and play? I wouldn't want to play either. I'd rather just play III or VC.

As for which I prefer? If I were to pick a game to replay, it would be IV. I have tried to replay SA on so many occasions and have never gotten out of Los Santos. In comparison, I will do a speed run of III in one sitting.

I liked the dude in Chinatown Wars a lot too because he realized the dudes he worked for were idiots. He also didn't bitch about his jobs or scoffed at killing people because he was in the with the Triads as part of his family to begin with.

Sick of GTA and its whiny ass leads. Fuck.

[Groogrux]

Checked out the Michael Jackson game from work.  It's fun for what it is.