Author Topic: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?  (Read 3325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« on: September 09, 2009, 10:34:14 PM »
Now that I finally have this thing running, let's fill this fucker up.  Suggest some good free/cheap apps and games for me.
sup

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 10:39:10 PM »
Jailbreak it
fat

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 10:40:22 PM »
what for?
sup

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 10:43:38 PM »
Free apps and games and custom everything, what Apple doesnt want you to do
fat

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 10:49:57 PM »
i dunno how to jailbreak it, i don't want to fuck it up

plus i just installed the 3.1 update, so i don't even know if i can
sup

Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich

  • •••
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 10:51:28 PM »
jailbreaking is easy as piss, and there's absolutely no chance of fucking it up (allegedly).

*edit* Oh wait did you get one of the new iPod touches, or the 2G?
うぐう

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 11:02:27 PM »
the dirty secret is that ipod gaming sucks outside of drop7, Space Invaders Infinity Gene, Bookworm, Peggle, and Wolf3D RPG.

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 11:08:03 PM »
jailbreaking is easy as piss, and there's absolutely no chance of fucking it up (allegedly).

*edit* Oh wait did you get one of the new iPod touches, or the 2G?

price-dropped 8GB

i'm not ready to spend $300 on something i might drop and break just yet
sup

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 12:11:01 AM »
Stanza is an awesome Ebook reader app, and it's free.

these earbuds are terrible, by the way

TERRIBLE
sup

Akala

  • Easy Victor
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 12:13:36 AM »
get bookworm.

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 12:29:37 AM »
Flight Control is super-cheap.

the CO-OP guys (ex-1up crew video show) do a great job of covering iPhone games. Seeing them in motion really helps with some of the wackier concepts.
vjj

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 12:44:24 AM »
Stanza is an awesome Ebook reader app, and it's free.

these earbuds are terrible, by the way

TERRIBLE

they are the worst.  They buzz like crazy.

I got these buds, they handle everything at very high volume and sound great:
http://www.head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=5

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 02:13:37 AM »
wolfenstein rpg is great fun

wolfenstein 3d classic, not so much
sup

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 03:06:25 AM »
Saucelifter. It's Choplifter but with a UFO and flat-shaded polygon graphics.

Underworlds. Diablo clone.

Wolf RPG. :rock

Civ Rev. Best portable version.

CBG

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 03:10:11 AM »
Bookworm
Flight Control
Peggle
Star Defense
Geo Defense
I Dig It
Baseball Slugger HR Battle
Draw Race
Wild West Pinball (used to be free)
Underworlds

Apps:

Pandora Box - free app tracker for sales/new releases. The best app to get
itm

ch1nchilla

  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 03:11:14 AM »
Tiltshift Gen, Toy Camera, Puzzle Quest

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 05:36:59 AM »
Another vote for Stanza. And then go visit DrinkMalk.com when it's not borked from exceeding its bandwidth.

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2009, 10:19:41 AM »
Spider is a great puzzle-platformer game with great controls
Wolf RPG is great
Civ Rev is great
Real Racing is great, easily the best racing game on the device and plays a bit like PS1 racing games
Sway is a platformer where each side of the screen controls the left or right hand grip, and using the momentum, you have to toss yourself through the level
Space Invader Infinity Gene is great
Minigore is sorta good because it's the first iPhone game with on screen analog sticks that work.  It's a twin stick shooter.  Good graphics, too.

There are a bunch more.  Rolando 2 is great too.  One thing to watch out for are people who are more interested in the iPhone as a device and not for the games.  Like, "Rolando is better than LocoRoco" or something when they don't play similar.  Rolando is a puzzle game, LocoRoco is more of a platformer. (I'm not big into either of the series)

Flight Control is super-cheap.

the CO-OP guys (ex-1up crew video show) do a great job of covering iPhone games. Seeing them in motion really helps with some of the wackier concepts.

the problem with the coverage of iphone games there is that they never have complaints for these games because they're "only $5" or something.  They covered Gangstar, which is garbage, and praised it for the novelty of seeing a GTA-like game on the system.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 10:26:54 AM by swaggaz »

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »
toucharcade.com is the site I use to find out about iphone games. I don't trust any of the big gaming sites as they get blinded by the novelty of it all.
CBG

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 09:12:14 PM »
yeah toucharcade.com and pocketgamer.co.uk are the two I visit.
itm

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2009, 11:22:50 PM »
Is there an iPhone app version of the old ELITE game yet? Seems like the accelerometer controls would make it pretty natural (though players risk looking pretty dorky).

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2009, 11:27:15 PM »
swaggaz - good point.

Apps I use a lot (i.e. always on my 1st page of apps):

imeem - Pandora-style streaming
Orb - streaming media from home server
Mediafly - podcast streaming/management (no need to sync your podcasts via iTunes if you use this...just stream the lot as long as you have a phone signal or wifi. You can manage them all on a webpage on your PC too).
Nimbuzz - multi chat app
Truphone - cheap international calls (or Skype...Truphone came out first and I bought points for it...)
Facebook
Tweet Deck - Twitter
Reader - Google RSS feed
Comic Reader Mobi - for reading comic scans. Supports .cbr, .cbz, zip, pdf... I was surprised at how readable they are. Haters will hate of course.



Chronovore - check out Galaxy On Fire
vjj

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2009, 04:46:34 AM »
Ooh, downloaded, thanks!

And thanks for the tip on the Comic Reader Mobi as well - I've purchased one but it requires a desktop parser and so I've not converted anything from .cbz/.cbr

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2009, 02:36:29 PM »
Comic Reader Mobi is $14.99 there are cheaper ones available.
CBG

Hitler Stole My Potato

  • The Pelé of Anal
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2009, 04:49:52 PM »
Is papertoss still free?  Get that.

Fieldrunners is still probably my favorite tower game on the thing and they're supposed to be adding in a couple new maps here shortly.

When 3D coaster goes on sale, pick it up.  Not really worth $4.99 'cause it's a little short and too easy but it's a damn nice looking game on the phone.  I think there's a light version.

And I'm also kind of preferential to Yard Sale Sunnyville.  It's a hidden object game but it's the perfect time killer plus there's some ds-esque mini games in between that have you repairing and refabing the shit you found throughout the game.  Sound gay?  You betcha.  I like it.
Tacos

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2009, 12:51:58 PM »
Well, imeem just made a dumb decision with their latest update: Google ads.

Or rather, their design decision allows users to derail their own experience: clicking on any ad launches the Safari browser. Launching the browser counts as "leaving" the imeem app, which ceases the current song's playback with no easy means of returning to it.

And the ad is right above the app's Menu button, so I just went sailing away from something I was trying to bookmark in imeem, into a website for radical interpretations of evangelical christian scripture. :fml

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2009, 01:50:48 PM »
8bitone is $.99 this month.  Pretty cool chip tune app to screw around with.

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2009, 10:21:27 PM »
Comic Reader Mobi is $14.99 there are cheaper ones available.

Away with your filthy poor speak. CRM is worth it for the speech balloon magnification feature alone. You don't need to pinch and zoom every damn panel manually.
vjj

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2009, 10:25:15 PM »
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 12:00:10 AM by Joe Molotov »
©@©™

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2009, 10:26:07 PM »
Comic Reader Mobi is $14.99 there are cheaper ones available.

Away with your filthy poor speak. CRM is worth it for the speech balloon magnification feature alone. You don't need to pinch and zoom every damn panel manually.

i tried the demo version with that awful comic and liked the interface - but how does it handle larger .cbr/.cbz files?  i have some .cbr "collections" that are over 50mb

Download this and then review it for Borecast:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-09-16/sasameki-koto-yuri-anime-kissing-game-offered-on-iphone

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

i'll do it
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:27:39 PM by Eel O'Brian »
sup

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2009, 10:31:12 PM »
Eel - i've used it with files over 100mb with no problems. It's only caching a few pages ahead so memory isn't an issue. (one weakness is that it doesn't keep pages you've already read in cache for memory-saving reasons, so be careful of hitting that back button...).

otoh, i've had problems opening a large .pdf with it that GoodReader had no problems with.
vjj

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2009, 10:39:06 PM »
thanks for the info!

i'm trying to limit myself to a maximum of $20 per paycheck for ipod games/apps, and i've already hit my limit this round, but i think i'll pick up CR Mobi next week

i've been using ComicZeal and I like it, but it is a pain in the ass to convert everything before transfer (and sometimes the conversion results in fuzzy images)
sup

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2009, 11:00:59 PM »
yep, no conversion needed for CRM. The free sync utility works really well too. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that you can use it while iTunes is syncing :o

Haven't had a problem with a single file .cbr, .rar., .cbz. or .zip file so far. My biggest issue with it is the fucking icon, which looks like something a kindergarten student would make in MSPaint :lol
vjj

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2009, 11:36:38 PM »
I also have Twitterfon installed as a backup - Tweet Deck is nice and all but i have to admit it's buggy and slow. Especially if you try to access it with the phone oriented weirdly - it freezes most of the time when i do this.

Tweet Deck refreshes automatically 150 times/hr usually (see the bar at the top of the app) so I don't see why you'd need Push notifications. I have my gmail forwarded to my phone's MMS account so if someone DMs me on Twitter, i get basically an instant notification. Is there something specific you want? I'm not so into Twitter that I would pay for an app that had minor extra features at this point so i haven't surveyed the whole field.
vjj

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2009, 12:02:27 AM »
the no. 1 feature of Tweet Deck is the ability to sort your contacts into different groups, i.e. real life friends, celebs, news, sports news etc etc. If you don't feel like reading 200 tweets when you first log on every day, you can just cut to the chase. If you don't use that, there's no real reason to use Tweet Deck IMHO.
vjj

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2009, 12:06:53 AM »
make with the bowing, Jinfash, make with the bowing.
vjj

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2009, 12:25:20 AM »
My cock is hard enough to shave with right now.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
wanna try?
[close]
vjj

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2009, 03:03:33 AM »
ComicZeal is only $4 and to zoom on a panel you just tap it AND the ap keeps your space in memory.   
CBG

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2009, 03:49:50 AM »
Goddammit Manabyte this town ain't big enough for the two of us  :lol
vjj

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2009, 05:22:56 AM »
I'm also fond of ComicZeal, though I've only d/l'd from their own library and haven't learned to use the conversion tool yet.

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2009, 10:51:06 AM »
in windows it's drag and drop, and saves the converted .cbi files in documents/comiczeal sync

it just takes a while if you have a bunch of comics to convert, and now that i have a 32GB touch i've got plenty of space
sup

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2009, 06:48:39 PM »
Saucelifter is free at the moment.
CBG

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2009, 08:43:29 PM »
That Elite game Cormacaroni pimped is very cool. I played the demo last night; very fun, and the accelerometer controls are more fun than an Apple ][ joystick (or keyboard).

I played the demo of Saucelifter but could not get the aliens to get out of my ship and transport away. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2009, 10:22:07 PM »
Monkey Island Special Edition is on sale for $3.99 until Monday.
sup

ch1nchilla

  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2009, 10:08:32 PM »
Clearly the best app is I Am T-Pain.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I bought it  :ninja  :zzz 
[close]

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2009, 10:58:21 PM »
That Elite game Cormacaroni pimped is very cool. I played the demo last night; very fun, and the accelerometer controls are more fun than an Apple ][ joystick (or keyboard).

I played the demo of Saucelifter but could not get the aliens to get out of my ship and transport away. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Figured it out: had to land beside the transport platform, not on it. ::)

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2009, 11:52:18 PM »
i did the same thing :lol
sup

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2009, 05:57:48 AM »
:lol I was like "GET OUT, YOU FUCKING ALIENS! OUT! OF MY SHIP! OUT!" Finally watched a review with gameplay footage. :facepalm

Costanza

  • Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2009, 11:23:49 AM »
get Word Ace.

It's a combination of Scrabble + Texas Hold 'Em with online multiplayer (+ friends list, chats). And it's free.

Hitler Stole My Potato

  • The Pelé of Anal
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2009, 02:42:34 PM »
Clearly the best app is I Am T-Pain.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I bought it  :ninja  :zzz 
[close]

Surprisingly is.

I don't know T-Pain songs from shit but this app is the fucking bomb.  I was resisting on buying it but a friend of mine got it and I immediately had to download after spending a few minutes with the thing.  It's like a mini karaoke autotune machine that does nothing but t-pain rap songs - I know in theory that should suck balls but it's the most entertainment I've gotten out of my iphone since I bought it.  Seriously, just pass it around to your friends as they try to rap/sing along to some asinine song like "I'm in Love With A Stripper".  It's hilarious.
Tacos

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2009, 05:48:11 AM »
Got Monkey Island during the sale and it's really good.
CBG

Kestastrophe

  • "Hero" isn't the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2009, 07:45:30 AM »
Is there some way that I can transfer files to my ipod without using itunes? I just got my first ipod a few hours ago and I synced a picture folder, only to have it erase all of the apps that I downloaded :(. I just want to be able to drop files in and out of folders when its connected to my PC
jon

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2009, 03:49:08 AM »
Get F.A.S.T. It's 99 cents and an Ace Combat style dogfight game.
CBG

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2009, 03:19:11 AM »
Knights Onrush. Cheap, fun, and an awesome artstyle.
CBG

Reb

  • Hon. Mr. Tired
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2009, 04:01:34 PM »
Space Invaders: Infinity Gene is mindblowingly awesome.
brb

Kestastrophe

  • "Hero" isn't the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2009, 05:23:38 PM »
Is there some way that I can transfer files to my ipod without using itunes?
Anyone?
jon

Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2009, 05:38:07 PM »
Is it an ipod touch?  If so, the only method I know is to jailbreak.  There's a few programs you can install or you can use ssh, but you'd have to jailbreak first.  Sorry, can't recommend any apps; I reverted back to a clean install of 3.1 on my iphone.  There are guides out there that explain the file structure of the touch/iphone if you use ssh.

If you're attempting to avoid itunes for syncing music, you can use songbird.  It's extensible; some pretty cool add-ons are available.  For files, though, jailbreak.

Kestastrophe

  • "Hero" isn't the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2009, 05:48:56 PM »
Songbird sounds good enough right now, thanks. Itunes and syncing are so fucking shitty. I wish I could punch Steve Jobs in his cancerous pancreas for letting such shitty software be made.

Another little complaint that I have is with the touch music player and itunes. Why can't I delete files on the ipod with the ipod? Also, why can't I subscribe to podcasts in the touch itunes store? These are just minor complaints compared to the shitfest that is transferring files using itunes 
jon

BobbyRobby

  • yachtsman
  • Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2009, 03:02:44 AM »
Can someone point me to a good tutorial on jailbreaking an ipod touch using an imac?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 03:07:31 AM by BobbyRobby »

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Best free/cheap ipod touch apps/games?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2010, 02:14:35 AM »
Well, imeem just made a dumb decision with their latest update: Google ads.

Or rather, their design decision allows users to derail their own experience: clicking on any ad launches the Safari browser. Launching the browser counts as "leaving" the imeem app, which ceases the current song's playback with no easy means of returning to it.

And the ad is right above the app's Menu button, so I just went sailing away from something I was trying to bookmark in imeem, into a website for radical interpretations of evangelical christian scripture. :fml

OK, quoting one's self is bad form, but there's no clean way to quote from Dysfunctional Hall of Fame entries, which is where the last pertinent mention of IMEEM happened here.

I'd been away for about two months, I guess. Now using the app to log in, it just stayed on the loading screen for several minutes. While it was doing that I thought I'd forgotten my password, so I thought to try the main website. I go to the bookmarked site, it redirects to MySpace. No, no. MySpace, WTF, just go to imeem.com, what is hard about that? I give it a few more shots until I think to google the site. First few words of the wikipedia summary: "imeem was..."

I'm sad, but now I'm wondering what Cormacaroni has been using to fill the gap.