I saw Zelda: TP for Gamecube tonight

[Himu]

water temple is AWESOME

[FlameOfCallandor]

I really liked the Sumo stuff. 

[Bacon]

Me too. The sumo stuff and goat hearding really come full circle, as those who have completed the game know.

It's that kind of game design that garners TP both critical and commercial success.

[Van Cruncheon]

oh jesus, not more sumo and goat herding. FUCK MINI-GAMES.

[Bacon]

Yeah I'd much rather paint circles opps I mean BOMBS.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, you'd rather settle for half-baked controls and blocked progress than do the innovative equivalent of selecting a bomb from a menu.

[Bacon]

The game is pretty much completley opened up after the third dungeon. And the controls are responsive and work well. I won't say they add some new level of immersion or whatever bullshit, but they don't hinder the game. And the pointer make a lot of items/weapons more fun.

But I guess you prefer drawing a line to slash.

[Van Cruncheon]

I won't say they add some new level of immersion or whatever bullshit, but they don't hinder the game. And the pointer make a lot of items/weapons more fun.

[Himu]

Be careful Bacon, or they'll think you're an Ntard too. 

I won't say they add some new level of immersion or whatever bullshit, but they don't hinder the game. And the pointer make a lot of items/weapons more fun.

We'll see who's laughing when you get to the Sky dungeon and have to snipe fuckers from 50 miles away with the GC controller.

[Van Cruncheon]

you really hafta be an nintard to defend a lot of twilight princess' design decisions. i'm diggin' the game, but it's straight up B+ material.

[Bacon]

Drawning circles and lines is so innovative.

[Himu]

you really hafta be an nintard to defend a lot of twilight princess' design decisions. i'm diggin' the game, but it's straight up B+ material.

I think it's safe to say you don't even want to like the game. Why don't you sell it and be done with it? It seems you've already decided what you thought of it even before purchasing it (or did you get it for free or some bs?).

[Van Cruncheon]

what the fuck? I've been playing the game avidly for the last three nights. I find it incredibly engaging and addictive. That doesn't blind me to its glaring flaws, or that I found Okami more compelling still.

Sorry my world isn't as binary as yours, dude!

[Himu]

Sorry Drinky, I've been seeing more complaining than I've seen compliments for the game.

Oh wait. Isn't this familiar? Why yes. It's the same thing that happened to me when I called Okami an average game.

Talk about King Hypocrisy.

[Van Cruncheon]

Yeah, but your reasoning was spurious and fueled by Amir0x' taunts. Me, I can clearly point to all the things Okami does better -- largely because I'm not fettered by nostalgia and/or franchise fanboydom.

Fuck, I don't even bother with the sort of pointlessly subjective shit you drag into your complaints -- if I wanted to get nasty about TP, I could throw in all the times I roll my eyes when I see the skullnumbingly tired staples of Zelda: Link himself, the Gorons, the Zoras, Zelda, Ganon et al. I'd KILL to have a Zelda title free from all that tedious baggage -- wait, I did! Okami!

[Himu]

I actually had good reasons for what I said about Okami and I'm not the only one either.

Franchise fanboyism. Right. Because one likes a game more than you do it's naturely franchise fanboyism...right?

The same old staples? Drinky you're mad about that?  :'( :'( :'( What about that old Warcraft, ol' boy? Still flaunting those dwarves and dark elves and shit? You don't seem to mind when it comes to PC games.

[Van Cruncheon]

The ONLY valid complaint you've seen leveled against Okami is Issun -- and I find Midna nearly as obnoxious. Wah wah drawing simple shit bugs you -- it's a lateral shift from selecting items with a menu, much as waggling is a lateral shift for button pressing in the Wii version of TP.

Okami has fresh characters, fresh mechanics, a vibrant art style, brilliant graphics, great integration of the overworld and puzzle dungeons, a fascinating retelling of Japanese myth, and a deep (for the genre) development model.

Zelda 2006 has tired characters, retreaded mechanics, an honestly questionable visual style and technology, AWESOME dungeons but a horrible overworld experience with progress blocked by countless distinguished mentally-challenged mini-games, and more of the same overall.

Both have annoying sidekicks that drive me fuckin' batty. Neither game is very difficult, either.

Fortunately, it's a same I *love*, but of the two, Okami is the far fresher experience, and one I'll remember. TP will probably be forgotten after I finish it unless my mind suddenly gets blown -- and I'm halfway through the game, now (just beat the Arbiter's Lair and the skeleton boss).

[Van Cruncheon]

Himuro, I do mind and in fact constantly bitch about the tired Western fantasy tropes, but I won't let it stop me from playing a great game, either. STRAW MEN AHOY

[TVC15]

Himuro, for the record, I like TP an awful lot, and I've even gotten used to its aiming to the point where I find it enjoyable, but the game's got flaws.  Nearly every moment I've had to do something outside of a dungeon, I've found the game kinda boring.  Dungeon design is still tops, and that's what matters most, though.  The game is by no means unimpeachable.

[Himu]

I'm not saying the game doesn't have flaws, it's just that you guys seem to be making a big deal out of them more than what they are.

But then again, people have different perspectives. I thought Okami got annoying as fuck halfway through and wanted it to end. People at GAF loved it. I thought Yakuza was a really really good game, with an extremely robust combat system and nice adventure elements. GAF hates that game. Majority consensus at Evilbore is that Portrait of Ruin is FUCK AWESOME; GAF thinks it's average fluff.

[Christopher]

The story also sucks, and loses itself during the game.  I know Zelda games aren't about story, but would it hurt to have a coherent good storyline?  I don't think so.  

I think that’s another reason why the side quests are so boring, is because none of the characters are engaging enough, and come off as boring and lifeless.

[Himu]

Now, see, the story complaints I honestly don't get. Before TP I didn't give a flying fuck about story in Zelda and can't recall more than maybe 3 or 4 memorable characters. But with TP, I loved the story and it is actually a main incentive for me to continue playing aside from the awesome gameplay.

[Bacon]

The story is coherent unless you're a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow. What exactly didn't you understand?

Drinky wants a Zelda game without Link or Zelda. It's kind of hard to take him seriously.

[Christopher]

Now, see, the story complaints I honestly don't get. Before TP I didn't give a flying fuck about story in Zelda and can't recall more than maybe 3 or 4 memorable characters. But with TP, I loved the story and it is actually a main incentive for me to continue playing.

I can't honestly name one character's name off the top of my head...Mallo, Lilla that's about it.  The story sucks, and the end is just so thrown together.  Even people at GAF though the story/characters dissapointing.  There isn't enough sequences between the dungeons that want you to keep going.

The getting of the tears was also tedious as fuck.

[Himu]

I thought getting tears was fun, because they normally ended up being puzzles outside of dungeons. That's a change of pace for Zelda to me. I'd like to do things other than dungeon crawl you know, and TP provides that: a nice variety other than go to dungeon A, B, C, D;etc. but with more resolve and reason. The complaints about the supposed "tedious" things before dungeons is one complaint I don't understand because they help build up the dungeons, something that previous Zelda's didn't do before.

I don't know, I felt the game was a more evolved and thought out process than what we've got in the past and I'm still playing it. I'm at the 8th dungeon, I'm enjoying myself, and that's what counts.

[demi]

you really hafta be an nintard to defend a lot of twilight princess' design decisions. i'm diggin' the game, but it's straight up B+ material.

I think it's safe to say you don't even want to like the game. Why don't you sell it and be done with it? It seems you've already decided what you thought of it even before purchasing it (or did you get it for free or some bs?).

:btw

You can give it to me

[Van Cruncheon]

The Tears shit took too long -- 20 of them per "pod" was just stupid, and it all took place on boring-ass overworld maps you'd already trod (unlike a good dungeon), and since the "sense" mode obscures your vision, it's all very boring, visually. I think I blew at least 1.5 hours on each bug hunt, and unlike, say, Okami's dog hunt, I wasn't rewarded with a good event battle. Tracking down maybe 5 or 8 bugs scattered around with better variety in locations woulda made a world of difference, I think.

[TVC15]

The story is coherent, it's just out of place.  This is, near as I can tell, truly the first Zelda game to try to tell a good story (WW had its moments, too, but I think it's more prominent in TP), and Nintnedo's inexperience at doing so kinda shines through.  If there's going to be a decent amount of text and cinematic camera angles, there should be voice acting.  Link could still remain silent, no problem.  There is no solid reason for not having VA, aside from the excuse "IT NEVER USED IT BEFORE!"  the same of which could be said of FF, pre-X, but FF changed and modernized according to standards and expectations.

And yeah, the tears are another sore point.  If this game did not have "Zelda" on the package, it would've got dinged for constant backtracking.

[Himu]

The Tears shit took too long -- 20 of them per "pod" was just stupid, and it all took place on boring-ass overworld maps you'd already trod (unlike a good dungeon), and since the "sense" mode obscures your vision, it's all very boring, visually. I think I blew at least 1.5 hours on each bug hunt, and unlike, say, Okami's dog hunt, I wasn't rewarded with a good event battle. Tracking down maybe 5 or 8 bugs scattered around with better variety in locations woulda made a world of difference, I think.

It took me a good 30 minutes for each bug hunt with the exception of the first one..

I'm willing to bet you'll enjoy the second half more. There's less story, more about dungeons. There's no bug collecting but you have a good mixture of wolf and Link gameplay to solve puzzles.

[demi]

so many spoilers omg i must avoid this thread

[Van Cruncheon]

I'm enjoying the game! A lot! Don't extrapolate my complaints as HATE; I'm simply raising design issues that seem ill-considered and almost un-Nintendo. I'd rather the overworld involved more exploration and puzzle-solving than mini-games, backtracking, collecting, and fetch quests. And at least Okami's overworld was, y'know, EASY ON THE EYES. Kakariko Village and the Eldin Region looked like fuckin' Shadow of the Colossus OOGLY. (Amir0x am cry.)

Like Okami, though, I wish it wasn't so fucking easy and non-threatening all the time. Well, when a distinguished mentally-challenged mini-game isn't blocking my progress, that is.

[Christopher]

I was also dissapointed in the music I LOVE Zelda music, and there was nothing sans maybe a handful of tunes that were memorable.

MM had the best Zelda soundtrack ever with OoT (and LttP).

[Van Cruncheon]

OoT had a good soundtrack? Composition-wise, MAYBE, but DAMN those chintzy lo-fi MIDI instruments HURT.

[Christopher]

and yet their still using them today...

but yeah I mean in composition, of course they could have sounded better.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Wolf link parts are pretty boring. I kept wondering how long until i can be link again. However once you learn the ability to switch freely between the two, it gets alot better.

[Oblivion]

OoT had a good soundtrack? Composition-wise, MAYBE, but DAMN those chintzy lo-fi MIDI instruments HURT.

Of course, it was N64 midi. The compositions were great, though. And more memorable and catchy than most of what I've heard so far in TP (though it gets better from what I hear).

As an unbiased Zelda fan, I'll have to say I think the wolf parts are extremely boring, and am thankful there's only one more area I have to go through in that form with the tear gathering thing. There's a bit of backtracking too that I noticed which was pretty annoying.

HOWEVER, just like OoT, the good shit starts after the first 3 dungeons.


Also, in Himuro's defense, I don't think (at least from what I gathered) Himuro cared too much for the Zelda games in general before TP. So I don't think you can use the nostalgia goggles complaint.

[Himu]

I've always loved Zelda games. However, I'm not as big a fanboy as others and I stayed out of Zelda threads at GAF for a reason.

[Oblivion]

Okay, I REALLY wouldn't dare dream of bashing my beloved TP, but after this last tear hunt, I have to agree with Drinky, some of these design decisions are really questionable. A lot of backtracking too, I noticed. I know it'll get better, though but Drinky's right so far. 

[Van Cruncheon]

Hey, I *like* TP. A LOT. Been playing it every evening I've had power!

[Oblivion]

Yeah, I know you do. I'm just saying that it had some more irks than some others.

Also, how long did it take you guys to do that puzzle after the third temple with the two guards?

[child810]

So does the mirror in the basement of your house do anything more than make you look left/right handed depending what version you have? I can't believe I didn't notice it until now after I've already beaten the game.

[Himu]

Okay, I REALLY wouldn't dare dream of bashing my beloved TP, but after this last tear hunt, I have to agree with Drinky, some of these design decisions are really questionable. A lot of backtracking too, I noticed. I know it'll get better, though but Drinky's right so far. 

Last tear hunt? The one before the third dungeon? If so, that's just weaksauce. I have played far more tedious and annoying shit than ANY of the tear hunts in TP. You guys seriously lack patience.

[Oblivion]

I'll admit, most of my frustration with that part was due to the fact that I kept falling in the lake because this one part needed fucking pinpoint precision to jump across.

[CajoleJuice]

Time to me to start this game up. Just handed in a final history paper and took my two slightly-more-difficult-than-elementary-school math finals - I don't know why I even bothered to open a book. My last final is on Friday and will be more of a joke than am nintendo's reasoning skills.

[brawndolicious]

My last final is on Friday and will be more of a joke than am nintendo's reasoning skills.

so you'll fail it?