EvilBore, I have a question concerning programming

[Raban]

Recently I've been playing through Cave Story again and being reminded of how awesome it is. I also just finished Mega Man 2 for the first time and I've realized that I'm going to at least put some effort forth to pursue my childhood dream of developing video games, and see if I come out victorious or simply with lessons learned. The most important question I have is: How difficult is it to learn a programming language?

I've read that Cave Story was made in Visual C++, is that a difficult language? There seem to be many comprehensive books for beginners on that specific programming language and claims that it is the gateway to all modern programming. Is this true?

I'm not sure if there are any programmers here on EB, but this is the only online community I still post to, so I felt it was worth a shot.

[Madrun Badrun]

So you've never programmed before?  You can start with any language you want - the major ones all have similar features that a beginner would use anyways.  That being said don't expect to start making anything like cave story on you're first game.  Now a days you could also go the C/C# and XNA approach too.   

I found VB to be fun to start programming with especially because making simple games is really easy.   

[Raban]

I don't plan on making anything akin to Cave Story like, overnight. I understand it took Pixel like five years. I'll be making simple little games until I get the hang of programming.

Are there any books you'd recommend for learning any of the major programming languages? I'm pretty sure I want to learn C++ at one time or another, can I go from like VB to C to C++? Would there be too much overlapping to bother? I'm sure if I gain a powerful interest in programming I'll learn them all, but I just want to start off with a good foundation.

[Madrun Badrun]

From what I've used of this book it's not bad for a complete beginner

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Out-Control-Structures-through/dp/0321545885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253405408&sr=8-1

Really don't be so concerned about the language, once you know the basics in how to program going from one language to another only takes like a day to week to get the basic details. 

Foundation wise nothing beats C but pointers will fuck with your mind for a while.  I still think VB is a good choice though as you can actually make simple things with GUI features really easily, and if you can actually program the things you want to do it will help keep your interest in programming. 

I liked these too

[Raban]

Holy jesus that book is $100.

What exactly are pointers?

And I will definitely check those videos out. Do you need a program to write code or how the hell do you even program? Just crack open Notepad or what?

EDIT: I saw this earlier http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Guide-Second-Herbert-Schildt/dp/0072232153/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253406697&sr=1-11 and it looks pretty tight, hey look, it won't make me broke either!

[Bocsius]

All languages have their various editors out on the net, but if you're going to start with something like VB or C#, go and download the Visual Studio Express editions.

http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/

You can get VB, C#, C++, Web Developer, SQL Server...

All free, all with enough features to keep you busy for a while. You'll even be able to compile and distribute the apps, if you want, and can use the software commercially.

Also, check out this site/blog:

http://blogs.msdn.com/coding4fun/pages/1994662.aspx

[Raban]

That video of the college professor is awesome, I've already learned a ton just from watching him in C, this is really interesting. Reminds me of Tron.

[GilloD]

Take a look at Flash Programming. There's a library called Pixlr that could get you started quick.

Anyway- No, it's not hard to get started. It is hard to make something out of love and passion. You'll hit a wall quick and not many people get over it. I sure didn't!

[Raban]

Yikes, what do you mean? How long or daunting the task is?

[Madrun Badrun]

I think he means if you start to ambitious you're going to create an unworkable mess where the only thing to do is start again using the new knowledge you've gained.  Lots just don't start again. 

[Raban]

I'll keep that in mind.

[Madrun Badrun]

Exactly, I don't mean to sound like an ass but it's important to realize that you're going to make a lot of mistakes and get rather frustrated.  The trick is to find some problem to solve that is interesting to you but easy enough that you can actually do it.   Doing something like tic-tac-tow is good example of a first game to make.

[Raban]

Holy shit programming is awesome.

[Bocsius]

I liked these too

I watched the first two, which were really just the first and second halves of the first day. Although the first was largely throwaway since it was dealing with the minutae of kicking off a college course, they were both interesting to watch and they make me miss school. I also liked the video at the end of the first one when he tried to pass it off as something the university made them show concerning plagiarism.

[Vizzys]

i hear good things about learning/using LUA

[Raban]

I liked these too

I watched the first two, which were really just the first and second halves of the first day. Although the first was largely throwaway since it was dealing with the minutae of kicking off a college course, they were both interesting to watch and they make me miss school. I also liked the video at the end of the first one when he tried to pass it off as something the university made them show concerning plagiarism.

I skipped the first two videos because they seemed more philosophical than educational. The professor puts a lot of personal philosophy into his teaching style, and it definitely makes for an entertaining watch.

[GilloD]

Yikes, what do you mean? How long or daunting the task is?

Or you get to a place where it's like. The jump between Medium and Hard in Rock Band. Where you need more than just brute force to get through. You need to WANT to do it.

Also, yes- Write and rewrite. I regualrly spend 30 hours working on something and then 2 hours reprogramming it

[Raban]

Yikes, what do you mean? How long or daunting the task is?

Or you get to a place where it's like. The jump between Medium and Hard in Rock Band. Where you need more than just brute force to get through. You need to WANT to do it.

Also, yes- Write and rewrite. I regualrly spend 30 hours working on something and then 2 hours reprogramming it

I know exactly what you mean now. I'll be wary of this. I don't play on starting anything epic even after I have programming dialed down, but if it's something I really enjoy, I'll inevitably try and create something grand, and I'm going to hit with with a lot of determination.

It's hard for me to anticipate something like this, however, because I've never really completed anything creative. I sketch and draw all the time, but I wouldn't consider those drawings complete. I've written short stories before but I've never written an entire book.

So, it's somewhat terrifying that you mention something like this, but I'm also very thankful. Now that I'm aware of an instance where I'll hit a barrier, I at least hope it'll be easier to tackle.

[GilloD]

Yikes, what do you mean? How long or daunting the task is?

Or you get to a place where it's like. The jump between Medium and Hard in Rock Band. Where you need more than just brute force to get through. You need to WANT to do it.

Also, yes- Write and rewrite. I regualrly spend 30 hours working on something and then 2 hours reprogramming it

I know exactly what you mean now. I'll be wary of this. I don't play on starting anything epic even after I have programming dialed down, but if it's something I really enjoy, I'll inevitably try and create something grand, and I'm going to hit with with a lot of determination.

It's hard for me to anticipate something like this, however, because I've never really completed anything creative. I sketch and draw all the time, but I wouldn't consider those drawings complete. I've written short stories before but I've never written an entire book.

So, it's somewhat terrifying that you mention something like this, but I'm also very thankful. Now that I'm aware of an instance where I'll hit a barrier, I at least hope it'll be easier to tackle.

The nicer(r) thing about programming is that you can take it in pieces. You don't really write a book in 10 sifferent chapters and then try and put them together. You write it start to finish.

With programming you can work on, like. Jetpacks and when you get frusturated and hit a wall, you can work on the crab boss or health bars and then you can try inventory and then go back to jetpacks. You can shuffle things around.

Also: Instant Feedback. Change, Save, Run. Did it work? No? Change, Save, Run. etc etc. It's less subjective than some other arts, although the real magic happens when you start sticking systems together. See: Cave Story versus something like Stalker, which is such a mishmash of ideas.

[Madrun Badrun]

Yes and the sooner you learn proper code modularity the better.  I remember some of my first vb programs being all in one sub with goto statements everywhere 

[recursivelyenumerable]

No!  Don't do it!  Save yourself while there's still time!

[Bocsius]

Yes and the sooner you learn proper code modularity the better.  I remember some of my first vb programs being all in one sub with goto statements everywhere 

  SPAGHETTI CODE