Author Topic: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools  (Read 6065 times)

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Himu

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[youtube=560,345]Mk9cXJ1MljI[/youtube]

The editing for the 2007 clip is really bad. You can find that entire interview here, and O'reilly is a git the entire time.

[youtube=560,345]3tRsnm45OVY[/youtube]

Once again, O'Reilly acts like a git, but this begs the question: does ID really need to be taught in schools? Many of the ideas in ID are questionable, as are the people who support it.

What do you think EB?

Was evolution taught in your middle schools and high schools?
IYKYK

Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 12:43:27 PM »
That was fucking horrible. I could barely make it to the end.

Powerslave

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 12:48:39 PM »
I don't give a shit, that shouldn't be the topic here. O'Reilly destroyed Dawkins with his logical religious arguments.. Dawkins was weak and full of shit except him saying that why Jesus Christ would be the real thing or something to that extent. Because he's not. Islam is the only religion that makes sense to me so Jesus Christ being the son of God is not true.
Atheism is ignorant and soulless.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 12:49:17 PM »
but this begs the question: does ID really need to be taught in schools?

Yes. In the same class where Greek and Norse Mythology is taught.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 12:50:07 PM »
but this begs the question: does ID really need to be taught in schools?

Yes. In the same class where Greek and Norse Mythology is taught.
Why ruin mythology class?

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 12:52:09 PM »
Norse and Greek mythology was some of the best shit in school. I was ecstatic to read Beowulf; blood and guts and :rock
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CajoleJuice

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 01:04:38 PM »
I don't give a shit, that shouldn't be the topic here. O'Reilly destroyed Dawkins with his logical religious arguments.. Dawkins was weak and full of shit except him saying that why Jesus Christ would be the real thing or something to that extent. Because he's not. Islam is the only religion that makes sense to me so Jesus Christ being the son of God is not true.
Atheism is ignorant and soulless.

AMC

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 01:13:08 PM »
IYKYK

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 01:24:24 PM »
To be fair, O'Reilly did apologize for shouting, which was different.

Intelligent design has no place in SCIENCE class - it belongs in philosophy.
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Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 01:25:51 PM »
To be fair, O'Reilly did apologize for shouting, which was different.

Intelligent design has no place in SCIENCE class - it belongs in philosophy.

Why ruin philosophy classes?

Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 01:27:44 PM »
I dont see how this is even an issue, something thats not science shouldnt be in science class.
Maybe science doesn't have all the answers; did you ever think about that?  Maybe the slutty devil planted those dinosaur bones?

Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 01:29:36 PM »
I dont see how this is even an issue, something thats not science shouldnt be in science class.

It's the same culture war bullshit that certain people who align themselves with religion have been pushing ever since evolution came along.

It's a paranoid fear that "God" is being removed from the culture or attacked so the defense response is to try to fight back and insert him where he doesn't belong.

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 01:30:58 PM »
Even we know that.

Why ruin philosophy classes?

Yup, they should have separate classes for religion. 5 actually. 10 hours per week.

Religion isn't taught in American public schools k-12 but I really think it should be in the later high school years along with economics.
IYKYK

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 01:32:42 PM »
I don't know what public school you went to, but I learned about religious cultures in middle and high school.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 01:33:32 PM »
Ask Mandark - we both went to the same middle school, and I definitely recall learning about religions in social studies.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 01:36:13 PM »
Religion isn't taught in American public schools k-12 but I really think it should be in the later high school years along with economics.

There is nothing wrong with a comparative studies class on the history of religions/mythologies. Especially as an elective course.

That's arguably about as far as it needs to go in a public school imo. If people want their specific religion taught to their kids they should put them in private schools.

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 01:37:08 PM »
We were taught bare essentials about the various religions in 10th grade world history, but that was it.
IYKYK

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 01:39:32 PM »
Define the "bare essentials"?

Do kids really need to be indoctrinated in any religion in public school? The school system does a find job of comparing the various world religions, and individual impact on culture and history. Anyone with a decent public education should be able to grasp the fundamentals of any modern religion.

That's really all it needs to do.
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 01:40:04 PM »
We had a brief overview of world religions once or twice in high school, but that was about it.

I'd be okay with having religion [or religions] taught as an elective course, but if people are really that concerned about their children being taught what they think is right then they need to teach it to them, either in the home or in church. It'll have a much bigger impact that way.
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Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2009, 01:42:55 PM »
They basically went over it like this:

Monotheism - Christianity, Judaism, Islam

Polytheism - Hinduism, Buddhism (yes, they did include this), Shinto, some other shit

They basically just divided the different faiths in to the two categories, but didn't go over what they actually believe,

And I agree that children don't need to be indoctrinated into religion while in school, but I feel that more insight into what they actually believe rather than separating them into mono or poly categories could go a long way for people learning to accept and appreciate the differences in all the religions.
IYKYK

Human Snorenado

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 01:43:38 PM »
I dont see how this is even an issue, something thats not science shouldnt be in science class.

It's the same culture war bullshit that certain people who align themselves with religion have been pushing ever since evolution came along.

It's a paranoid fear that "God" is being removed from the culture or attacked so the defense response is to try to fight back and insert him where he doesn't belong.

Now, since the culture warriors have to live with the injustice of a black president they've gone even more berserk.  Thus, the birth of the Conservative Bible Project, which exists to remove liberal bias from the bible.  No, I'm not kidding.
yar

Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2009, 01:44:47 PM »
We had a brief overview of world religions once or twice in high school, but that was about it.

Maybe its gotten better since I was in high school which is certainly possible but I don't really remember being taught jack about any religions or their history. But perhaps I just tuned out or something.

I don't have a problem with religion being taught as the history of the religion. In an academic fashion. I actually think that's a good thing.

What some of these people really want though is religion not taught as history but as a hidden religious class. As in the same mindset that is similiar to let's stick God in science class just because.

I have a feeling they would have an equal amount of problems with a religion class actually taught in a historical manner.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 01:47:17 PM by Stoney Mason »

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 01:45:59 PM »
We covered the blood spilled in the name of religion more than the actual religions themselves :rock
IYKYK

Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 01:46:58 PM »
The problem with such classes is that they might present all religions positively, as if all the world religions were all appetizing entrees on a giant buffet table. The warts need to be exposed, too.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 01:47:22 PM »
And I agree that children don't need to be indoctrinated into religion while in school, but I feel that more insight into what they actually believe rather than separating them into mono or poly categories could go a long way for people learning to accept and appreciate the differences in all the religions.

No offense, this is stupid.

Pretty much all children are taught about development of the religion (Mohammed and Jesus get a decent amount of face time) and their impact on world history.

Children do not need to know anything else from public education. Do I need to know anything about Christianity other than its formation, its ascension to political power and world history? Same with Judaism or Islam?

Not just that, in public school, I learned all major religions core beliefs and historical text. That's really all kids need to learn.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 01:49:26 PM by Willco »
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Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »
Of course, Malek.

And I agree that children don't need to be indoctrinated into religion while in school, but I feel that more insight into what they actually believe rather than separating them into mono or poly categories could go a long way for people learning to accept and appreciate the differences in all the religions.

No offense, this is stupid.

Pretty much all children are taught about development of the religion (Mohammed and Jesus get a decent amount of face time) and their impact on world history.

Children do not need to know anything else from public education.

We weren't taught about Mohammed at all. :lol
IYKYK

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2009, 01:50:11 PM »
Sounds like you went to a pretty lame public school.

I remember pop quizzes on what the various religious texts were called for each religion, its founders, etc.

We were even taught about Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2009, 01:52:14 PM »
Not just that, in public school, I learned all major religions core beliefs and historical text. That's really all kids need to learn.

As I say this may be one of those things that has gotten better since I've been out of school which has definitely been awhile but I was definitely never taught these things.

Religion was only ever broached as a side topic. As in these group of people over here have the religion of X.

But never ever having X broken down as to what X means outside of a name. And certainly not the history of X.

To pull a random example everything I knew about Islam in high school came from reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X. Not from being taught about Islam.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 01:56:03 PM by Stoney Mason »

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2009, 01:53:11 PM »
The school was pretty good, actually, they just completely held back when it came to religion. We were taught evolution and the religion stuff was, for the most part, skipped entirely.

Daoism, Confucianism were completely skipped in that class.
IYKYK

Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2009, 01:54:50 PM »
The problem with such classes is that they might present all religions positively, as if all the world religions were all appetizing entrees on a giant buffet table. The warts need to be exposed, too.

Which is why I don't understand this thread at all.  Kyle's mom would be in an uproar.
haa

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2009, 01:56:54 PM »
We didn't learn about anything in high school that I can recall.  Then again, I spent my first two years of HS out in the sticks and if anything would have been taught there, it would have just been a sneak Christian indoctrination class.  I'll never forget our creative writing teacher getting in trouble with the super crazy religious asst. principal for singing "Plastic Jesus" in class.  Fun stuff.

For my last 2 years, my family moved into a really nice neighborhood in Sandy Springs (north Atlanta) and I went to a public school that was as close to a private school in terms of quality of education as you can get.  So we didn't learn about any crappy religious nonsense there.
yar

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2009, 02:01:15 PM »
Well, apparently Montgomery County, Maryland has a better public school system than most.

I do not think you can do world history justice without learning the fundamentals of various religions, but outside of their individual formation, contrasting tenants, historical figures and world impact, everything else should be researched outside the classroom.
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duckman2000

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2009, 02:06:20 PM »
We had religion class 4 hours or so a week, from age 10 to age 15 (our school system is different, so the usual high school shit doesn't apply), with continuing classes in gymnasium depending on direction. Covered most major religions and some obscure ones, and the focus was on general belief systems, practicing cultures, history and historical impact. I think the focus shifted depending on whether or not the teacher was at all religious, but the general rule was no bias.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2009, 02:06:45 PM »
... although, for assignment, we did have to read The Tao of Pooh. Maybe that could be considered religious propaganda? My liberal instructors have been outed!
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2009, 02:08:20 PM »
many ID teachings are questionable with little to no evidence backing them, but the same can be said of evilution :smug
010

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2009, 02:09:18 PM »
Aren't there tons of studies and mountains of research reaffirming Darwin's theory?
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Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2009, 02:10:03 PM »
evilution :lol
IYKYK

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2009, 02:10:32 PM »
In my ass backwards state, we never had a religion class, and creationism was never mentioned once in school, especially in science classes.
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Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2009, 02:11:52 PM »
In my ass backwards state, we never had a religion class, and creationism was never mentioned once in school, especially in science classes.

We had debates about creationism and evolution in my biology class in HS, but creationism wasn't mentioned by the teacher once as an alternative.
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CajoleJuice

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2009, 02:14:22 PM »
Stolen from GAF, which was stolen SA

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Flannel Boy

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2009, 02:21:04 PM »
Why we still got monkeys?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2009, 02:30:48 PM »
Aren't there tons of studies and mountains of research reaffirming Darwin's theory?

where's the evidence? :smug
010

Himu

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2009, 02:32:10 PM »
Aren't there tons of studies and mountains of research reaffirming Darwin's theory?

where's the evidence? :smug

 :lol

IYKYK

Tieno

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2009, 02:39:08 PM »
I went to a Christian high school and in Religion class we were taught about all the world religions and a few minor ones if I remember correctly. Ofcourse the main focus was on the bible, but we got word of other stuff.
Catholic high school here. First two years it was bible stuff, 3rd and 4th christian hippy stuff, 5th and 6th other religions, lots of buddhism...we even visited a Buddhist temple.

ID should be ridiculed in history or religion class or whatever. Keep out of science cause it's not science, you don't teach every idea ever thought of in science class, you teach science: the method, established ideas and facts and maybe some new scientific hypothesis if there's time.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 02:43:47 PM by Tieno »
i

etiolate

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2009, 04:14:18 PM »
There was a paragraph about Jesus in public school and a chapter or two on Islam/Islamic golden age time period. We watched a movie on Mohammad as I recall.

Evolution and Religion need to be taught more, one in Science and the other in a Humanities like class.  The populace is poorly informed on both. Letting this socio-cultural battle create this divide is just a way to manipulate individuals into easier controlled groups.

brawndolicious

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2009, 04:46:26 PM »
It's not how much religion is taught that matters, it's how it is thought.  In my middle school, they just gave out facts on who it was started by, their holy text, and a few major practices.  What they need to do is at the high school level, have mandatory philosophies classes where you have to argue a certain viewpoint.  That would actually get people a little bit interested in learning about the other philosophies/dogmas.

ID is just too distinguished mentally-challenged for any class.  It's a "theory" with no physical evidence.  Plus, it's too vague/simple for a philosophies class or even for a section of a chapter in a history book.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2009, 05:09:37 PM »
Dude, do you ever make sense?

School is a place for learning, not for endorsing religions. Kids need the facts; having them advocate specific religions is distinguished mentally-challenged. :lol
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2009, 05:11:21 PM »
Furthermore, the ridiculous viewpoint that having children challenge each other with religious viewpoints would lead to some kind of enlightenment or general acceptance of beliefs, rather than the much more likely scenario of insults and culture clashes. :rofl
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 05:13:18 PM by Willco »
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brawndolicious

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2009, 05:34:53 PM »
How do you get that that's endorsing religion?  You put them in like a group of 5 with everybody assigned a different religion.  Then they have to find out what that religion believes about a certain social issue (ie death penalty) and try to give those arguments in a debate like fashion.

This is not meant to cause a divinity debate or to change anybody's mind about the logic of the Trinity or if Israel is legit or whatever.  It's actually probably impossible to pull off something that simple with kids but it's probably the only way you could constructively get kids to learn about other religions.  Just teaching a few basic facts and major beliefs about each religion doesn't really do them any good.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2009, 05:39:04 PM »
Dude, you should check your tap water for contaminates, because you're not making any sense. And this is coming from someone who promotes cultural sensitivity and religious understanding.

Public school is a place for learning, not religious indoctrination. We do not live in a theocracy, and the further organized religion is removed from our schools - the better.  It is not the responsibility of the public school system to teach religious understanding or preach the values and/or beliefs of any religion. That is the responsibility of parents and individual students.

There is nothing to gain from the inclusion of religious studies in public school, and all public education should be limited to the historical and cultural context of any particular religion. If they want to further research the religion, that should be done outside the classroom.

Bringing religious studies into public schools runs the risk of alienating students with their own personal beliefs, alienating students that voluntarily abstain from organized religion and inciting bigotry from groups of defensive students that will denounce opposing religious viewpoints out of immaturity.

That's not to mention that train wreck that is creating a syllabus for such a class and finding suitable instructors. Most Americans are religious, and asking instructors to remain objective is a ridiculous conceit. I can just imagine that CNN headlines now: "Middle school teacher fails student for advocating Islam in Religious Studies class".

Again, why are the essential facts and major beliefs not enough? If you want to preach a particular religion or have your child involved in religious studies, send them to private school. Most folks send their kids to public school to learn, and religious studies should never be apart of that.
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M3wThr33

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2009, 05:45:46 PM »
I went to an Episcopal School from pre-K to 8th grade. Church 5 days a week. Our science classes taught evolution and once a week we'd have a religion class taught by one of the Fathers from the church. I never came out of it with anything contradictory, although I never managed to listen to a damn word in church in 10 years. Always zoned out and wondered why there were reading from a book that was so old compared to the school books and singing songs that didn't rhyme.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2009, 05:50:44 PM »
It's good to know you were actually taught evolution! :D

... again, if you're sent to a private school, the curriculum should be left up to that particular institution. But if my taxpayer dollars are footing the bill for your education, then I just want you to learn crazy things like facts and historical/cultural impact - that's all.

Call me crazy.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2009, 05:55:47 PM »
although I never managed to listen to a damn word in church in 10 years. Always zoned out and wondered why there were reading from a book that was so old compared to the school books and singing songs that didn't rhyme.

Slightly off topic but one of the most boring, mind numbing, dreadful experiences as a child was being dragged to Church every week by my mother as the preacher droned on for hours. It felt like time actually stopped during those periods...

Fortunately my mother had a bad experience with that particular church so she stopped going and stopped making us go although in her later years she has gotten religious again.

M3wThr33

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2009, 05:57:22 PM »
although I never managed to listen to a damn word in church in 10 years. Always zoned out and wondered why there were reading from a book that was so old compared to the school books and singing songs that didn't rhyme.

Slightly off topic but one of the most boring, mind numbing, dreadful experiences as a child was being dragged to Church every week by my mother as the preacher droned on for hours. It felt like time actually stopped during those periods...

Fortunately my mother had a bad experience with that particular church so she stopped going and stopped making us go although in her later years she has gotten religious again.

Yeah, if you want your kids to hate church, force them to go.

brawndolicious

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2009, 05:59:26 PM »
You should teach religion for the same reason you should teach history.  It's not to say that one person was right or wrong or anything, it's to teach different viewpoints and learn from what other people did.  Just giving out basic facts about major religions won't do the students any good.  If you make them research the different beliefs on their own and learn to communicate those beliefs, they'll become more rational in the end.

But like I said, it does sound impossible for kids not to fuck that idea up.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2009, 06:01:58 PM »
 Just giving out basic facts about major religions won't do the students any good.

Why? I fail to understand why facts won't do children good.

If your aim is religious and cultural tolerance, then - again - that is not the responsibility of the public school system. At that point, you're asking the school to do a parent's job.

Quote
If you make them research the different beliefs on their own and learn to communicate those beliefs, they'll become more rational in the end.

But like I said, it does sound impossible for kids not to fuck that idea up.

Yeah, I don't know what world you live in where this wouldn't blow up spectacularly.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2009, 06:04:19 PM »
You should teach religion for the same reason you should teach history.  It's not to say that one person was right or wrong or anything, it's to teach different viewpoints and learn from what other people did.  Just giving out basic facts about major religions won't do the students any good.  If you make them research the different beliefs on their own and learn to communicate those beliefs, they'll become more rational in the end.

But like I said, it does sound impossible for kids not to fuck that idea up.


I'm going to do a broad and mean spirited stereotype here but whatever. The reality is that the average parent in this country (maybe every country) doesn't want their kids to know much about other religions beyond the basic idea of those are the wrong ones, and whatever the parents practice is the right one.  
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 06:05:53 PM by Stoney Mason »

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2009, 06:05:23 PM »
And quite frankly, if I'm agnostic, I don't want you teaching my child religious beliefs.

Teenagers are susceptible to peer pressure - don't pollute my child's mind with religious dogma. The line between an instructor saying Christians believe Jesus is the son of God and affirming that Jesus is the son of God is one I don't want our school system to go down.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 06:08:07 PM by Willco »
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2009, 06:07:27 PM »
I'm going to do a broad and mean spirited stereotype here but whatever. The reality is that the average parent in this country doesn't want their kids to know much about other religions beyond the basic idea of those are the wrong ones, and whatever the parents practice is the right one.

I disagree that the majority of parents teach their children that other religions are wrong, but for the most part, this is correct. Parents don't want the school system contradicting the religious and moral values they spend years imprinting on their children.

I'm all for religious understanding, but in depth analysis and research of organized religion needs to occur outside the classroom.
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brawndolicious

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Re: Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly - Intelligent Design in schools
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2009, 06:11:36 PM »
 Just giving out basic facts about major religions won't do the students any good.
Why? I fail to understand why facts won't do children good.
If your aim is religious and cultural tolerance, then - again - that is not the responsibility of the public school system. At that point, you're asking the school to do a parent's job.
That's why I said it should have the same goal as a history class, you teach them the facts AND the motivations of the people of those religions and the student will gradually become more open-minded and rational.  If you just give a student a bunch of facts, they'll forget it all after the test.  It's sort of just a big waste of time.