Author Topic: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?  (Read 2447 times)

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The Fake Shemp

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In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« on: November 05, 2009, 01:51:05 PM »
The console manufacturers lose a small fortune on hardware, and mostly make it up with software and accessories. Developing for the budget RSX GPU and Xbox 360 is taxing on development resources. Is there a specific reason why we do not have standardized specs, and individual manufacturers can still make hardware that is compatible with all software?
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archie4208

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 01:52:53 PM »
Competition.  Sony, MS and Nintendo will never collaborate because they each want the entirety of the market to themselves.

cool breeze

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 02:22:41 PM »
PC gaming is probably the closest.  Assuming you can match the minimum specs, the same games scales depending on how good the hardware is.  You can have a Dell with an Nvidia / Intel combo and a home built PC with ATI / AMD, and they'll play the same game.

It's all kinda stupid.  I remember having to explain all this to a friend who wasn't into video games and it was sheer confusion for him.  To someone who understands how other media works, trying to understand that video games aren't one universal thing is nonsense.  It shouldn't make sense that a game is only on one hardware; or if you buy a game on one piece of hardware, it wouldn't work on the other; or if you buy a game on one hardware and want to play with a friend who has the same game on another system, you just can't do that.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 02:30:13 PM »
If two different consoles made by Microsoft and Sony playing THE SAME games, coded in the same way then yeah this is how it should be.

Exactly. It should be like Blu-ray players, certain manufacturers put stuff like MKV and streaming Netflix support into the decks, but all of them play the same stuff.

PC gaming is nothing like that. The specs are not standardized, and an OS will never be as easy for mainstream consumers. It's cool for what it is, but let's be realistic.

I just don't understand why the industry doesn't form the equivalent of the BDA and agree to these things. If the companies were making money on hardware, that'd be one thing, but Sony is STILL selling the PS3 for a loss and I'm pretty sure Microsoft is too.

Imagine how much more money publisher could make, Microsoft Game Studios and SCEA included, with a broader audience.

Competition.  Sony, MS and Nintendo will never collaborate because they each want the entirety of the market to themselves.

This makes no sense. Again, those guys make their money on software and accessories, and both of those business models would thrive under standardized console specs.
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FlameOfCallandor

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 02:31:44 PM »
Basically once Sony dies this will happen. There will always be Nintendo making wacky games, but the future of gaming lies in the xbox on PC.

cool breeze

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 02:36:26 PM »
PC gaming is nothing like that. The specs are not standardized, and an OS will never be as easy for mainstream consumers. It's cool for what it is, but let's be realistic.

I am being realistic, which is why I said it is probably the closest.  If anything it should show how far it is from ideal.

archie4208

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 02:36:49 PM »
This makes no sense. Again, those guys make their money on software and accessories, and both of those business models would thrive under standardized console specs.

They also make money on licensing fees for each copy of a game that is printed on their system.  If there is a standard videogame box, who would the publishers pay licensing fees to?

Don Flamenco

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 02:38:51 PM »
Competition.  Sony, MS and Nintendo will never collaborate because they each want the entirety of the market to themselves.

No way.  If it were legal, they'd probably all merge together and dominate the market with one console with all the games.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 02:40:02 PM »
They also make money on licensing fees for each copy of a game that is printed on their system.  If there is a standard videogame box, who would the publishers pay licensing fees to?

The industry equivalent of the BDA, which is split amongst its charter members. Basically, Sony, Microsoft and whatever hardware manufacturers would create consoles would get the licensing fees. Just how it is with other forms of entertainment.

... And that's small potatoes compared to how much sheer amount of revenue they'd make if games were available to everyone.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 04:39:30 PM »
We do, it's called the Xbox 360. :teehee
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Bebpo

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 07:28:22 PM »
Why don't we have UNIVERSAL USB STEERING WHEELS AND GUITARS AND DRUMS.  That's what I want to know.  Both systems have USB!  PC has USB!  Wheels should work on everything.

That shit takes up room!  I will never own more than one wheel any generation and it sucks because exclusive racing games like to spread across the consoles :\ 

Going to play Forza 3 with a controller  :'(

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 08:48:04 PM »
Nintendo would never do it.  Nintendo tries its hardest to make sure that they move away from the competition.

A Microsoft-Sony console sounds feasible but that relationship would crumble fast.
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 09:00:37 PM »
because the 3DO was a big fat failure.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 09:08:42 PM »
Also I like standardized hardware.  I don't want some program that can only work on one or two versions of a game player but not the other dozen.  Or one that has certain multimedia features that others lack.

If I want that bullshit, I'll just game on the PC.  In fact, that is the main reason why I don't bother much with the PC.  A universal console can only work if there is only one version of it out.  I suppose the consortium would work together on the hardware and software tools.
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cool breeze

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 09:27:31 PM »
Why don't we have UNIVERSAL USB STEERING WHEELS AND GUITARS AND DRUMS.  That's what I want to know.  Both systems have USB!  PC has USB!  Wheels should work on everything.

That shit takes up room!  I will never own more than one wheel any generation and it sucks because exclusive racing games like to spread across the consoles :\ 

Going to play Forza 3 with a controller  :'(

yeah, that shit is distinguished mentally-challenged and, iirc, most of the blame is on the 360.  PS3 accepts any standard USB controller and that's why you can use PC controllers on the PS3 and vise-versa.  Allegedly Microsoft support for third party controllers (especially wireless) is garbage.  It's why the PS3 version of a controller is usually wireless (via dongle) while the 360 is wired (until company is willing to pay fees; see: Rock Band).

But yeah, I want to be able to use my 360 controller on my PS3 for shooters and my PS3 controller on my 360 for Bayonetta too.  It's also one reason I'm forced to get fighting games on my PS3; because VF5 was first announced for PS3 I've already invested in it as my fighting game console  :'(

GilloD

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2009, 10:57:28 PM »
Because you make money selling games? And if company B is selling more game sthan you, you make less money? So you come up with your own console to muscle in on Company B? What part of this weird and unusual?
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 11:21:52 PM »
What does hardware have to do with software sales? People buy hardware to play software, not vice versa.

Standardized console specs would only increase software sales, not decrease.
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EmCeeGrammar

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 01:16:34 AM »
Wilco used to have just one l in his name, right?
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Don Flamenco

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 01:22:47 AM »
Wilco used to have just one l in his name, right?

nope

brawndolicious

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 02:15:59 AM »
How does this make any sense for the companies that actually make the consoles?  They expect to get their money from royalties that they get from the software.......that is sold for their proprietary hardware.
People buy hardware to play software, not vice versa.
Yes but manufacturers create hardware to sell software.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 02:29:39 AM »
Manufacturers make consoles to sell software, not for licensing fees. Besides, as stated, if the industry had a consortium, it could divvy up the licensing fees - just like how the Blu-ray Disc Association and DVD Forum work.

How does it not make sense for the Microsoft and SCEA? They have a much, much larger audience to sell software to - which is where both make their money - and can even still churn out accessories for a profit (I'm sure folks will want to use certain pads to their liking).

The only person that could really lose out is Microsoft, considering how much they have invested into the Xbox Live platform, which I would say is something they could negotiate for inclusion if they were a charter member of said industry consortium.
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brawndolicious

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2009, 03:19:49 AM »
Manufacturers make consoles to sell software, not for licensing fees. Besides, as stated, if the industry had a consortium, it could divvy up the licensing fees - just like how the Blu-ray Disc Association and DVD Forum work.
How does it not make sense for the Microsoft and SCEA? They have a much, much larger audience to sell software to - which is where both make their money - and can even still churn out accessories for a profit (I'm sure folks will want to use certain pads to their liking).
The only person that could really lose out is Microsoft, considering how much they have invested into the Xbox Live platform, which I would say is something they could negotiate for inclusion if they were a charter member of said industry consortium.
I don't see any of that making sense in the videogame industry.  For one, you have consoles becoming obsolete in at most 5-6 years, especially compared to PC's, and over time this has meant that gamers might have had just a tiny little bit of brand loyalty which console manufacturers aren't willing to throw away.  Also, you have huge R&D costs that come from having to constantly design the next generation of consoles.  If different manufacturers did agree to a universal platform, then they'd have to constantly be working together on the next generation of consoles.

But at the end of the day, all the companies want all of the pie.  That's what they always promise their investors.

Reb

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 04:00:05 AM »
I think they should stick to movies.
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pilonv1

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 06:42:21 AM »
imgaine sony hardware with ms software :hyper

realising it will never happen :gloomy
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 07:44:34 AM »
.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 09:49:59 AM »
I don't see any of that making sense in the videogame industry.  For one, you have consoles becoming obsolete in at most 5-6 years, especially compared to PC's, and over time this has meant that gamers might have had just a tiny little bit of brand loyalty which console manufacturers aren't willing to throw away.

This makes no sense whatsoever. So they shouldn't form some kind of consortium to create standardized specs for a gaming platform because of brand loyalty? First off, as evident by the fact that Sony has struggled with PS3 - that argument is stupid. Software and affordability sell hardware, not matter how hard Internet fanboys (which represent a fraction of the market) say otherwise. The end.

Not to mention, a consortium doesn't negate brand loyalty. Microsoft and Sony would still be able to manufacture individual units, and I'm sure folks will tout their Sony or Microsoft as superior to the other, but at the end of the day, both boxes would play the same exact thing.

Second, you act as if selling hardware is a plus for these guys, which it isn't. They don't make money off hardware, it's not sustainable.

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Also, you have huge R&D costs that come from having to constantly design the next generation of consoles.  If different manufacturers did agree to a universal platform, then they'd have to constantly be working together on the next generation of consoles.

... Uh, how is this a bad thing again? Standardized specs would lead to reduced R&D costs, and all companies would have a stake in the hardware's success. Not only does it mean more affordable hardware, since multiple manufacturers would be buying the same parts, but the manufacturers would be more likely to make a profit on the hardware with reduced costs.

For gamers, it means less costly hardware, since the market would be more competitive and - more importantly - longer console lifespans. Since all manufacturers would have a stake in the platform's success, it would naturally create longer lifespans, which would be beneficial for every involved - manufacturers, publishers and gamers.

Quote
But at the end of the day, all the companies want all of the pie.  That's what they always promise their investors.

Again, how would this not expand their "slice of the pie"? They would be able to stop hemorrhaging money on hardware costs, sell more software than ever before, still sell accessories and even get licensing fees.

This belief that the manufacturers are in the industry to sell hardware is laughable, because that business model is a proven failure. What is occurring right now is a war for the living room - with the power players trying to push their specific Internet-enabled platform as an end all entertainment solution.

This is about creating a set top box, with Sony pushing PSN and Microsoft pushing XBL.

And that - not brand loyalty - is the only thing holding both back. Realistically, one will push the other to the brink, because the current model is not sustainable. Not only would a consortium create a more profitable business model, it would make things easier for developers and publishers. Resources would be less strained and we'd see more polished games, software would cheaper because budgets wouldn't be as expensive and publishers wouldn't have to pay double the licensing fees, and - most importantly - the end user would buy more stuff.

Quote from: pilonv1
imgaine sony hardware with ms software

That's not what we're really talking about. Imagine Sony hardware with a Sony interface and Microsoft hardware with a Microsoft interface, but both played the same exact disc and crossplatform connectivity.
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brawndolicious

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 12:07:19 PM »
I explained it badly.  A standardized spec would make their game market share increase but they have a lot of customers other than the gamers.

They want a lot more than just games though, they want the whole living room as you say.  They want to sell a bunch of media on their online services, have cross-platform connectivity, and even connectivity with their OS.

Plus, Sony sacrificed a good chunk of its market when they had to jack up the price of the PS3 in order to get Cell and Bluray in there.  However, that probably was a major reason for why Bluray eventually won.

If they did try and design a console spec they're both happy with, it probably wouldn't work basically when you get to issues like Windows connectivity or Bluray because there's too many other industries tied to the performance of these "game consoles".

Madrun Badrun

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 12:16:17 PM »
People buy hardware to play software, not vice versa.

except for those XBLA games that make someone else controller vibrate.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2009, 12:33:49 PM »
That's not what we're really talking about. Imagine Sony hardware with a Sony interface and Microsoft hardware with a Microsoft interface, but both played the same exact disc and crossplatform connectivity.

This!

I hope they get their shit together and agree on something for or during the next-generation.

Also you can't deny that you actually described a PC (Sony hardware = nVidia GFX cards and Intel CPUs, Microsoft hardware = ATI cards and AMD CPUs).

Different hardware, same software. Only thing that is different is drivers.

Not really.

Yes, technically everything runs on PC guts. The PC doesn't have standardized specs, and that's part of that platform's charms. What I'm recommending is that both manufacturers would use the same exact parts, just like a Blu-ray manufacturer, but be allowed to make small tweaks here and there as per consortium agreements.

Like say, Microsoft's system has no Wi-Fi built in, but Sony's player could. Or Samsung and Panasonic - new players to the market - could develop players that let folks play certain file formats (MKVs!) that the other two don't.

At the end of the day, everything inside would be exactly the same. But it would allow the manufacturers the ability to focus on consumer-driven features to help sell their players, because we would be in control.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: In this day and age, why do we not have universal game consoles?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2009, 12:36:03 PM »
However, that probably was a major reason for why Bluray eventually won.

The PS3 has absolutely no bearing on why Blu-ray won the HD format war, which is becoming increasingly irrelevant as physical formats make way for streaming and digital delivery services.

Quote
If they did try and design a console spec they're both happy with, it probably wouldn't work basically when you get to issues like Windows connectivity or Bluray because there's too many other industries tied to the performance of these "game consoles".

None of this makes any sense. Part of what a consortium would agree on is the SDK and the drive, which is part of the standardized specs. We're talking about standardized hardware here - you're not.
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