Socialized health care for all!

[The Fake Shemp]

 

[Great Rumbler]

Can't wait for my turn in front of the death panel!

[Diunx]

Socialism now you filthy rich are gonna pay for the dirty poors herpes treatments.

[Madrun Badrun]

love this line for the BBC Q&A

How is the US healthcare system currently structured?

Unlike other developed countries, the US does not have a universal system of healthcare coverage.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8160058.stm

[The Fake Shemp]

I love Michelle Malkin's blog:

Liveblogging: The new Imperial Congress votes on Pelosicare; Update: Female Democrats turn House resolution process into circus; GOP responds; Obama rallies weakened Dems; will Stupak amendment stick?

[Mandark]

love this line for the BBC Q&A

How is the US healthcare system currently structured?

Unlike other developed countries, the US does not have a universal system of healthcare coverage.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8160058.stm

US politics can be pretty mystifying to Europeans, even to the Brits.  Peter Cook and Dudley Moore had a bit where they explained it.  "There's the Republican party, which is like the Tory party we have here.  Then there's the Democratic party, which is like the Tory party we have here."

[The Fake Shemp]

Man, I'm starting to really dislike the Republicans, but I don't want to feel like a liberal. :'(

[Bocsius]

It still has to get through the senate, right?

[BlueTsunami]

They should have put real Death Panels in, I don't want to live to "Shit my pants 90"  :'(

[Bocsius]

With any luck, we'll all be dead as a result of a global nuclear war long before then.

[Madrun Badrun]

They should have put real Death Panels in, I don't want to live to "Shit my pants 90"  :'(

Don't worry, no one lives to 90 in the FEMA camps. 

[Himu]

[Mandark]

Man, I'm starting to really dislike the Republicans, but I don't want to feel like a liberal. :'(

I'm seriously hoping for a future where we've eliminated enough of the crazy/moved far enough left that you're considered a conservative again, I'm a moderate liberal, and FoC can keep choggling his trousers in peace.

[Phoenix Dark]

drudge: SNEAKY PELOSI: PASSED ON A SATURDAY NIGHT
 

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Man, I'm starting to really dislike the Republicans, but I don't want to feel like a liberal. :'(

I'm seriously hoping for a future where we've eliminated enough of the crazy/moved far enough left that you're considered a conservative again, I'm a moderate liberal, and FoC can keep choggling his trousers in peace.

I really do think that at some level, the opt-out amendment was added in to slowly kill off the people stupid enough to not know any better.

(20 years later)
"And it seems that Texas once again, leads the nation in cancer deaths per capita, as well as medical-related bankruptcies, infant mortality rate, and delicious burritos (there's gotta be something good bout living in Tejas, right?).

[Crushed]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[M3wThr33]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

My father-in-law is a communist that refused to change after the Soviet Union fell.
He's sent me a box of a bunch of propaganda and shit. I can't wait to dig through it and see what it is. I love it, seeing as how it was such contraband years ago, and Republicans just seem to fear it again.

[Himu]

[youtube=560,345]9UQ1hw2bkdA[/youtube]

[ToxicAdam]

So does this version fund itself by taxing insurance companies or is it strictly from the 900 billion? I have lost track of the process.


I suppose the government will create a "Freddie Mac" for health insurance, which qualified people can apply for?

Section 322, Page 214

This section puts the clamps on the public plan in that other than the start up money mentioned above, the Treasury is not authorized to give the plan any more money. Further, government bail-outs, similar to the TARP scenario,  are strictly prohibited

Seems like a dumb way to limit yourself.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Wow, I'm impressed.

Maybe the Senate Democrats will locate their balls and actually pass this thing this year.

[Mandark]

Section 322, Page 214

This section puts the clamps on the public plan in that other than the start up money mentioned above, the Treasury is not authorized to give the plan any more money. Further, government bail-outs, similar to the TARP scenario,  are strictly prohibited

Seems like a dumb way to limit yourself.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like a pretty basic inclusion.

The idea of the public option is that it would be self-sufficient, rather than a subsidized program like Medicare or Medicaid.  They don't want it to keep coming back for more gov't money in the future, because they're 1) trying like hell to make this deficit-neutral, and 2) cost control is a big rationale for the public option and that's a lot less likely if the plan's spending isn't limited by its revenue.

There might be a point in the future where some kind of bailout is necessary, but in that case they just need to get it through Congress.  A previous statute won't override a new statute, as long as they include the relevant legalese.

[Phoenix Dark]

drudge: SNEAKY PELOSI: PASSED ON A SATURDAY NIGHT
 

I loved this.  What do they think happened?

'In a desperate bid to pass the helath care bill Nancy Pelosi scheduled a secret saturday night vote sparsely attended by 100% of congress"

Slightly changed today
"SNEAKY SPEAKER: PASSED ON A SATURDAY NIGHT"

It was on CSPAN, MSNBC had a live stream on their website, and the process took nearly all day.

So after tuesday's enormously gigantic victories of epic proportions for freedom lovers...what exactly. The bill will pass the senate somehow (reconciliation, nuclear option, watered down bs, etc, and after the conference and final voters are done Obama will have his victory. And republicans will have 2 more governor seats. Mmk

[Barry Egan]

Obama

[chronovore]

So 100% of congress attended, and that's "sneaky"? At what point does this become parody?

[recursivelyenumerable]

I am posting this from my secret base deep beneath Capitol Hill.  Our main tunnel is now complete, our contacts with janitorial staff are secure, my stealth equipment is ready, my operations support team is prepared, and some interesting bills will be passed after 1 AM tonight.  

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I'm posting this from an anonymous building where we're finally rolling out the homo agenda.

[Joe Molotov]

love this line for the BBC Q&A

How is the US healthcare system currently structured?

Unlike other developed countries, the US does not have a universal system of healthcare coverage.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8160058.stm

US politics can be pretty mystifying to Europeans, even to the Brits.  Peter Cook and Dudley Moore had a bit where they explained it.  "There's the Republican party, which is like the Tory party we have here.  Then there's the Democratic party, which is like the Tory party we have here."

Don't worry, US politics can be pretty mystifying to most Americans with less than a four year degree in Political Science.

[Hollywood]

love this line for the BBC Q&A

How is the US healthcare system currently structured?

Unlike other developed countries, the US does not have a universal system of healthcare coverage.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8160058.stm

US politics can be pretty mystifying to Europeans, even to the Brits.  Peter Cook and Dudley Moore had a bit where they explained it.  "There's the Republican party, which is like the Tory party we have here.  Then there's the Democratic party, which is like the Tory party we have here."

[Boogie]

I love that map.  Never gets old.

[Cormacaroni]

the Republic of Ireland doesn't even exist

[Fresh Prince]

Wow I never realised there were more than three Portugals 

[chronovore]

I'm posting this from an anonymous building where we're finally rolling out the homo agenda.

Interestingly, he literally means "rolling out."

[Human Snorenado]

Wow I never realised there were more than three Portugals 

I like "plucky little poland" myself.

[Diunx]

they didn't even bothered putting a funny name to my country :'(

[Bebpo]

Late but full of 

[Phoenix Dark]

OP 14 PROVISIONS THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY

1. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE — Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50%discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1, 2010.

2. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL) — Creates atemporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for severalmonths or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

3. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

4. ENDS RESCISSIONS—Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient’s policy when they file a claim forbenefits, except in the case of fraud.

5. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE— Requires healthplans to allow young people through age 26 to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice.

6. ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventiveservices and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program.

7. IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES—Improves the low-income protection programs inMedicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

8. PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE— Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans fromcharging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

9. IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING—Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies throughreview and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

10. CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS—Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is inplace and they can access affordable coverage.

11. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insuranceprogram to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

12. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a $10 billon fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset thecosts of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

13. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of thenumber of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

14. INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS — Provides new investment in training programs to increase thenumber of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-Immediately-102909.pdf

[The Fake Shemp]

Got into a heated argument tonight with the folks about the bill, who feel it forces everyone to get health care coverage. Somehow, this got equated to a hypothetical bill that forced everyone to join the military or something.

... It's funny, both of them make a pretty huge chunk of change every year and naturally want to protect the wealth, so they worry about taxes. But their disconnect with reality is a bit disturbing. My mother says anyone can get insurance right now, even without an employer, as if folks could even afford those premiums.

[Human Snorenado]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the average Amurican.   :'(

Also, could someone convince me that the heart of the Libertopian argument isn't "fuck y'all, I gots mine!"  I know for a fact that the heart of the Republican argument is "fuck y'all, I would own you if it was still legal."

Maurice- all of that stuff is awesome, but never underestimate the ability of the US equivalent of the House of Lords to crap all over something.

[The Fake Shemp]

Well, my argument came down to this:

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

If you don't want to get health insurance, you don't have to. But guess what, you're going to have to pay a tax. This went back and forth ("How come I have to pay for your health insurance if I don't want any?"). The other concern is the price tag.

Yeah, $1 trillion is steep. But a few things - it's a drop in the bucket compared to wasteful crap like TARP, Iraq, etc.

Also, more importantly, it's probably nothing compared to what our generation and future generations would have to pay in health care costs once an entire generation of poor nutrition and no preventative health care become eligible for Medicare. Yes, I would rather foot the bill now, than have to pay ten times that amount twenty years from now.

[Human Snorenado]

Plus it's like $90 billion a year over 10 years.  That's carrying around money for the Pentagon.

[The Fake Shemp]

It probably won't even be that, because the Senate is going to hack this thing into pieces. The bill that gets passed will probably have no federal exchange, a gimmicky public option, etc.

And that's if they can pass anything whatsoever.

My ultimate hope is that if Congress can pass anything that resembles a public option or health care reform, it will force them to go back and fix it a couple of years from now when it's not working as planned. Then we can get legitimate single-payer system.

[Phoenix Dark]

If they use reconciliation they'll be able to pass a stronger public option. They could also blow up the filibuster. But I doubt they will.

Lieberman

[pollo]

OP 14 PROVISIONS THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY

1. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE — Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50%discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1, 2010.

2. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL) — Creates atemporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for severalmonths or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

3. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

4. ENDS RESCISSIONS—Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient’s policy when they file a claim forbenefits, except in the case of fraud.

5. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE— Requires healthplans to allow young people through age 26 to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice.

6. ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventiveservices and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program.

7. IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES—Improves the low-income protection programs inMedicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

8. PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE— Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans fromcharging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

9. IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING—Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies throughreview and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

10. CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS—Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is inplace and they can access affordable coverage.

11. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insuranceprogram to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

12. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a $10 billon fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset thecosts of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

13. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of thenumber of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

14. INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS — Provides new investment in training programs to increase thenumber of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-Immediately-102909.pdf

Before I get all excited about this, this needs to be passed in Senate before it's enacted, am I correct?

[Phoenix Dark]

From my understanding once the senate bill is passed, the house and senate bills will be combined in conference. That's where we'll find out what goes into the final bill, and what is taken out. Many of those provisions aren't controversial, I think they'll make it in. But then again the WH has some deal with big pharmacy which may result in that first provision not being in the final bill. I hope dems ignore the deal and keep this provision which should be pretty damn popular with seniors

[Himu]

So today, I had a debate with a "Libertopian" about the health care bill. "Health care should be free market."

I never thought I'd argue with someone about that outside the internet.

[Mandark]

Before I get all excited about this, this needs to be passed in Senate before it's enacted, am I correct?

[youtube=560,345]mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/youtube]


Of course, to more accurately reflect the process it should be a bloated, meandering 13-minute prog rock epic with a disappointing end.

[BlueTsunami]

Before I get all excited about this, this needs to be passed in Senate before it's enacted, am I correct?

[youtube=560,345]mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/youtube]


Of course, to more accurately reflect the process it should be a bloated, meandering 13-minute prog rock epic with a disappointing end.

[FlameOfCallandor]

So today, I had a debate with a "Libertopian" about the health care bill. "Health care should be free market."

I never thought I'd argue with someone about that outside the internet.

How bad did he own you?

[Dickie Dee]

So today, I had a debate with a "Libertopian" about the health care bill. "Health care should be free market."

I never thought I'd argue with someone about that outside the internet.

How bad did he own you?

Sorry FoC, owning black people was made illegal.

[FlameOfCallandor]

okay I lol'ed

[pollo]

Before I get all excited about this, this needs to be passed in Senate before it's enacted, am I correct?

[youtube=560,345]mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/youtube]


Of course, to more accurately reflect the process it should be a bloated, meandering 13-minute prog rock epic with a disappointing end.

Yes, I'm well aware. It's just that the thread was entitled "Socialized health care for all" so I thought the law passed.

Oh well. I have a feeling the final version is nowhere near that comprehensive..

[Himu]

So today, I had a debate with a "Libertopian" about the health care bill. "Health care should be free market."

I never thought I'd argue with someone about that outside the internet.

How bad did he own you?

Well, it was a friendly debate, but nonetheless, I really disagree with his ideas.

I'm just amazed I met an Libertarian offline.

[Mandark]

Hey, remember the hand-wringing about Pelosi from earlier this year?  About how ineffective she was going to be, how the Dems should have given the job to Murtha, how people were calling on her to resign?

I'd say she's doing okay so far.

[Human Snorenado]

I've never had anything but respect for the woman, personally.  She takes a lot of shit but I kind of see her as someone who just doesn't give a shit what people think.  She comes from the cradle of liberalism in the country and can probably keep getting re-elected forever no matter what, so that's probably nice for her.  I wish the Senate Majority Leader was in a similar situation, or had similar balls...

[pollo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125763756556136303.html?mod=article-outset-box#articleTabs%3Dcomments

These comments are golden.

Liz do you realize that half the insurance companies are non-profit. How much does Acorn pay you to post?

 

[Reb]

You guys get to be more like Holland, everybody likes to be like Holland.

[Brehvolution]

Everyone saying America is doomed is wrong?

The conservatives are ruining the country because they feel that only they are fit to govern. That is why you hear the daily hissy fit since they are out of office. They are only causing further division in society.

Also, anytime you hear a nutjob talking about a revolution coming, kindly remind them that it already happened on 11/4/2008.

[The Fake Shemp]

You guys get to be more like Holland, everybody likes to be like Holland.

I was playing Modern Warfare 2 with some guys from Holland last night, who apparently have had the game for days. Some irate American thought they were nerds or jerks that broke street date, and they responded with, "We're from Holland, jackass!"

So I responded: "Yeah, they've got universal healthcare AND Modern Warfare 2 already."

The American dude got so pissed.

[chronovore]

FLAWLESS VICTORY.

[Phoenix Dark]

You guys get to be more like Holland, everybody likes to be like Holland.

I was playing Modern Warfare 2 with some guys from Holland last night, who apparently have had the game for days. Some irate American thought they were nerds or jerks that broke street date, and they responded with, "We're from Holland, jackass!"

So I responded: "Yeah, they've got universal healthcare AND Modern Warfare 2 already."

The American dude got so pissed.