October NPD

[Stoney Mason]

Your "opinion" is shit.

Not as shitty as Forza's sales.

But as shitty as your logic. You are conflating quality with sales which is not the simple equation in your mind that you think it is.

[Himu]

Wow Demon's Souls did pretty well.  Shows what abandoning Prole panty bait art for JRPGs can do.

Or good word of mouth and a 90%+ review average

That helps, but not as much what cohen suggested.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Gamers ain't too interested in games that ritually embarrass the gamer everytime he or she plays.  This is something that I keep in mind when Bayonetta will tank - gamers are about as interested in playing as awkwardly moving cheeseburgers as they are moe lolis.

Forza 3's opening sucked though.  This was a bad month for the 360.  Not sure why it isn't bringing in the numbers it used to because it isn't like PS3 is siphoning them away, save for a few thousand.

[archie4208]

Gamers ain't too interested in games that ritually embarrass the gamer everytime he or she plays.  This is something that I keep in mind when Bayonetta will tank - gamers are about as interested in playing as awkwardly moving cheeseburgers as they are moe lolis.

Forza 3's opening sucked though.  This was a bad month for the 360.  Not sure why it isn't bringing in the numbers it used to because it isn't like PS3 is siphoning them away, save for a few thousand.

Guitar Hero disproves that theory.  Nobody can dispute that you look like a fool jamming out some Dragonforce tune on a toy that has five large plastic frets and an imaginary string.  The entire music game genre has went to shit sales wise, but that is more of an issue of oversaturation and plastic toy guitars no longer being a new novelty.

I think Bayonetta will attract a large weeaboo audience.  It will probably make the top 10 the month it comes out and never be heard from again.

[Don Flamenco]

guitar hero embarrassment is different from "Uguu~ kawaii desu ne! ^____^;;;!!!" embarrassment.  

plus, the U.S. was already softened up by DDR for years before GH got big.

I don't know if Bayonetta will chart.  I forget if games in January do well or not, considering it's right after holidays.  

[archie4208]

Bayonetta comes out in the first week of January so it will have an entire month to itself, and the only other major release that month is Mass Effect 2.  I can see Bayonetta lingering around the 9th or 10th place position in January's NPD then falling off the face of the earth.

[Don Flamenco]

platinum/clover is pretty cursed, doomed to never have another big hit again, yet always get critical acclaim.

[archie4208]

Have they ever had a big hit game?  Didn't Okami and Mad World bomb pretty hard?

Also, looking here, Devil May Cry 4 did pretty well.  I know that DMC is an established franchise, but if Sega pushes Bayonetta as the spiritual successor to DMC then it should achieve moderate success.

[Don Flamenco]

Have they ever had a big hit game?  Didn't Okami and Mad World bomb pretty hard?

Also, looking here, Devil May Cry 4 did pretty well.  I know that DMC is an established franchise, but if Sega pushes Bayonetta as the spiritual successor to DMC then it should achieve moderate success.

I guess I mean the guys in Platinum/Clover...namely Kamiya and Mikami.  they'll probably never surpass RE/DMC.  I guess that's the problem with Bayonetta...I don't know if Sega can even say "From the makers of RE and DMC" or anything like that.  So that leaves it for the niche gamers like us to figure out while the rest of the world just sees a cheeseburger witch.

[Beezy]

they'll probably never surpass RE/DMC.

I'm assuming that you mean in sales because Bayonetta looks and plays better than the DMC games.

[Mr. Gundam]

So Demon's Souls sold between 150,000 and 156,000 copies. Nice for a game with zero advertising outside hardcore nerd sites.

[Don Flamenco]

they'll probably never surpass RE/DMC.

I'm assuming that you mean in sales because Bayonetta looks and plays better than the DMC games.

sales, of course.

daaaamn @ demon's souls.  is this atlus' biggest hit so far?

[Human Snorenado]

they'll probably never surpass RE/DMC.

I'm assuming that you mean in sales because Bayonetta looks and plays better than the DMC games.

sales, of course.

daaaamn @ demon's souls.  is this atlus' biggest hit so far?

I'm pretty sure that both Persona 3 & 4 sold pretty darn well.  Also, Disgaea.

edit- nvm, apparently P4 lifetime NA sales are just around 110k.  Huh.

[Don Flamenco]

Jesus Fucking Christ. Brutal Legend beaten by an Atlus game? Why was Double Fine able to secure AAA publishing, again? Did EA do it thinking it would sell great so they could rub it in Activisions face?

some idiot at EA translated fawning psychonauts/Schafer love on the internet into sales. 

I have a feeling Double Fine would make a much better XBLA/PSN dev. 

[Mr. Gundam]

Look at all them 3rd party Wii titles tearing up the ch... oh, nevermind.

[Phoenix Dark]

I wonder what Brutal Legends dev costs were. Jack Black+rock seemed like a good combo, with all this interest in music games.

[Human Snorenado]

Cancel that nevermind, wikipedia has old sales data. 

Persona 3 FES has done about 350k lifetime, and Persona 4 did more than 600k apparently.

[Mr. Gundam]

I wonder what Brutal Legends dev costs were. Jack Black+rock seemed like a good combo, with all this interest in music games.

About that "interest in music games." I wonder if the game would've sold better if it was released on time instead of being delayed due to Activision dropping the title after purchasing Sierra. Music games have lost a lot of their appeal with the masses.

[Himu]

Why are people acting like over 150k is a bomb for Brutal Legend? For the advertising, sure, but for a niche game? That's pretty decent. Not all games have to sell millions. That doesn't make them bombs.

[Don Flamenco]

I wonder what Brutal Legends dev costs were. Jack Black+rock seemed like a good combo, with all this interest in music games.

would've been culturally relevant a couple years ago.  

Cancel that nevermind, wikipedia has old sales data.  

Persona 3 FES has done about 350k lifetime, and Persona 4 did more than 600k apparently.

that can't be NA alone?!  

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Brutal Legend tanked because nobody gives a fuck about Jack Black these days.  5 years ago, this game might have done a bit better, around the time School of Rock came out.  Also, just because it has a lot of homages to metal doesn't mean people want to play an RTS game.  It is a Tim Schafer game, where his stuff is vastly overrated and appeals to a very vocal niche.  Publishers in the past have incorrectly assumed that internet hype from vocal minorities = gangbuster sales.

It'll probably do 500,000.  Not that bad but EA can't be too happy.  Time for Timmy to find some other unsuspecting publisher to sucker.

[archie4208]

Brutal Legend probably cost a ton to make.  Licensing over 100 songs, hiring big name voice talent and a large advertising campaign doesn't come cheap.  EA is already in some deep shit with their substantial losses and failure to have any new IP become a breakout hit.  Things are probably going to get worse for them.

[Bebpo]

What's weird about all this Demon Souls talk is I could have sworn it came out in September around the time ODST did?

*edit nm, 10/6

[Bebpo]

Tim Schafer should do 2d adventure games.  That flash game for the awards show was a lot of fun and probably cost 1k to make.  I'm sure he could do a full on adventure game for 1/100th the price of Brutal Legend dev costs and it'd sell at least half of what BL did if not sell just as much.

...or he could go work with Telltale.  They need better writers and a combination work with Schafer's creativity and humor along with their engine and programming would make a very profitable and enjoyable episodic adventure series.

[archie4208]

Maybe.  I was thinking primarily of Dead Space and Mirror's Edge which did "ok" and "flop" respectively.  Regardless, EA has to have some of the worst and bloated management in the business world considering that their sports titles sell multimillion copies and they still bleed money.

I think that Activision is the scum of the industry, but Bobby knows how to run a ship.

[Bebpo]

Wasn't Army of Two a huge hit for them? I seem to recall it doing 1.1 million it's first month. But yeah, other then that EA can't catch a break even with great ips like Dead Space and Mirror's Edge.

Lesson of the day.

GAR USA USA shoot the foreign people with guns! games = $$$
 :'(

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Those metal songs are probably pretty cheap to license.  Same goes for the voice talents, except maybe Jack Black but he couldn't have been that expensive.

As for Bebpo, I'd rather shoot a bunch of brownskins in a game than play overrated Tim Schafer shit.  FPS games do pretty well because of the detail involved.  Moe loli animu JRPGs have been spinning its wheels since the tail end of the PS One era and games like Xenosaga put the nails in the genre's coffin.  Street Fighter IV did well - pushing out a Tekken with janky online play was a bad idea.

Don't blame the FPS and WRPG developers for being one of the few to put out games that are worth a fuck these days.  Most J-developers have been fumbling to pick up the ball they dropped this generation.  Except Capcom.

[Beezy]

Maybe.  I was thinking primarily of Dead Space and Mirror's Edge which did "ok" and "flop" respectively.  Regardless, EA has to have some of the worst and bloated management in the business world considering that their sports titles sell multimillion copies and they still bleed money.

I think that Activision is the scum of the industry, but Bobby knows how to run a ship.

How is Mirror's Edge a flop if it sold over a mil?

[Beezy]

Ah, didn't know that. Heads will roll if the sequel gets canceled. 

[demi]

Why are people acting like over 150k is a bomb for Brutal Legend? For the advertising, sure, but for a niche game? That's pretty decent. Not all games have to sell millions. That doesn't make them bombs.

For the last fucking time, BL is -not- a niche game.

[Don Flamenco]

I wonder if EA will go back to putting out less games with more mainstream appeal and less originality next gen.  They're getting fucked over left and right it seems...they just cut a gajillion projects and teams. 

[Oblivion]

Have they ever had a big hit game?  Didn't Okami and Mad World bomb pretty hard?

Also, looking here, Devil May Cry 4 did pretty well.  I know that DMC is an established franchise, but if Sega pushes Bayonetta as the spiritual successor to DMC then it should achieve moderate success.

Viewtiful Joe 1 did pretty well, I think, and that's about it.

[Stoney Mason]

I wonder if EA will go back to putting out less games with more mainstream appeal and less originality next gen.  They're getting fucked over left and right it seems...they just cut a gajillion projects and teams. 

They've already said as much which is why they had to cut all those jobs in the first place and a dozen projects. It's business. Not pleasing a small hardcore niche of message board gamers. (Comment not aimed at you).

They said they will focus on the big projects that have big potential which means their big franchises. Not stuff like Mirror's Edge or other niche software.

[Don Flamenco]

I wonder if EA will go back to putting out less games with more mainstream appeal and less originality next gen.  They're getting fucked over left and right it seems...they just cut a gajillion projects and teams. 

They've already said as much which is why they had to cut all those jobs in the first place and a dozen projects. It's business. Not pleasing a small hardcore niche of message board gamers. (Comment not aimed at you).

They said they will focus on the big projects that have big potential which means their big franchises. Not stuff like Mirror's Edge or other niche software.

Not surprising.  I'm glad they did a complete 180, even if it was only for a little while.  If anything, it took down Tim Langdell (and yielded some conceptually interesting games.) 

I think they just need to find a better balance between development costs, advertising costs, and original games, rather than going back to full-time Madden/FIFA/Whatever it is they make money on.  It seemed like they were expecting Madden sales because they put Madden $$$ behind a niche game. 

[Stoney Mason]

EA's problem is that they've always been a bloated mess even when they were rolling in the profit last gen. They have plenty of good and popular franchises. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to be profitable. Concentrating on core franchises and potentially their massive back catalog is a smart call. Now they simply have to execute.

[maxy]

Maybe.  I was thinking primarily of Dead Space and Mirror's Edge which did "ok" and "flop" respectively.  Regardless, EA has to have some of the worst and bloated management in the business world considering that their sports titles sell multimillion copies and they still bleed money.

I think that Activision is the scum of the industry, but Bobby knows how to run a ship.

How is Mirror's Edge a flop if it sold over a mil?

The same way that Uncharted 2 could be considered as a success...expectations
If you shoot low everything is a success,if you shoot high almost everything is a flop.

It doesn't matter if something sells 2 million if publisher expects 4 it will be considered as a flop and therefore not worthy of a sequel.Why?Because everything is finite...people,money,resources
Its better to move on to something more profitable,if you want to survive.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think a company like EA should fund big and small projects both, I mean you never know when something is going to blow up really, do you?

Yeah but EA has a stable of guaranteed hits like Madden and Tiger Woods.  Their adventurous forays have bitten them in the ass.  It's understandable that they're not going to want to continue sinking millions of dollars into sure to be failed projects.  EA did just fine without them.

[Human Snorenado]

I think a company like EA should fund big and small projects both, I mean you never know when something is going to blow up really, do you?

Yeah but EA has a stable of guaranteed hits like Madden and Tiger Woods.  Their adventurous forays have bitten them in the ass.  It's understandable that they're not going to want to continue sinking millions of dollars into sure to be failed projects.  EA did just fine without them.

How sure are we that stuff like Deadspace "failed" to their projections?  I mean, I know they thought ME was gonna sell more because they had ads on like every other second when it launched, but I don't remember seeing a similar campaign for Deadspace.

EA can put out all sorts of stuff, they just have to be realistic and realize that some projects will fail (BL), some will underwhelm (ME) and some will succeed (I'm betting on Dragon Age).  They just have to accept that not everything they touch will be a new franchise on par with Madden.

[The Fake Shemp]

Dead Space sold over a million units. It was enough to merit a Wii a spinoff and a full-fledged sequel. I do not consider it a failure.

[archie4208]

EA is terribly mismanaged.  There is no reason for them to be losing so much money when they have guaranteed multimillion sellers in Madden and FIFA.  They also seem to have an array of moderately successful titles in Dead Space, Army of Two, EA Sports Active, and the Battlefield series.  At worst, they should be losing a small amount or breaking even.  According to this article EA paid nearly 800 million for Bioware.  I like me some Bioware games, but that company is nowhere near worth 800 million dollars.

[The Fake Shemp]

Also, the original Mass Effect was published by Microsoft. And it sold quite well.

[Bebpo]

EA is terribly mismanaged.  There is no reason for them to be losing so much money when they have guaranteed multimillion sellers in Madden and FIFA.  They also seem to have an array of moderately successful titles in Dead Space, Army of Two, EA Sports Active, and the Battlefield series.  At worst, they should be losing a small amount or breaking even.  According to this article EA paid nearly 800 million for Bioware.  I like me some Bioware games, but that company is nowhere near worth 800 million dollars.

Isn't madden doing worse these days though?  I mean if that's their main money to spend on other expensive development teams, then Madden losing steam would hurt them baaaad.

[archie4208]

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/10/madden-10-has-shipped-3-9-million-copies/

EA's John Schappert stated that Madden had a rough start in August, with sales down 19 percent from the prior year, but that it rallied up eight percent year-over-year in September, thanks to the PS3 price drop. The company claims that Madden 10 has sold five percent more than last year's iteration on PS3 and Xbox 360 combined, as of the end of September.

Madden is down slightly, but I remember reading an interview where DLC sales are healthier than ever.  I think they sell ridiculous shit like stat boosts for $2 each or something.  Regardless, Madden is still a massive cash cow that is semi reliable. 

[drew]

hollywood hates videogames but still follows sales

be more of a loser please

[Great Rumbler]

I think one of EA's problems is that they spend millions buying more studios almost every single year. They're doing really well in terms of revenues, but they're expenses are through the roof.

According to this article EA paid nearly 800 million for Bioware.  I like me some Bioware games, but that company is nowhere near worth 800 million dollars.

They spent $800 million on VG Holdings, which got them Bioware AND Pandemic.

[M3wThr33]

I went for an interview at EA Los Angeles a few months ago. Holy FUCK is that place elaborate. I can tell you all that money is being spent on making sure employees never want to go home. I mean, it's like a god damn palace inside that place.

[Bocsius]

According to this article EA paid nearly 800 million for Bioware.  I like me some Bioware games, but that company is nowhere near worth 800 million dollars.

They spent $800 million on VG Holdings, which got them Bioware AND Pandemic.

Neither company is worth close to half that amount. When Elevation first brought BioWare and Pandemic together, I believe the investment was $300 million, and that even looked too high. Bono & Company made out like bandits, though. How they took a $300 million shaky investment and parlayed it into $800 million is beyond me. Part of it could be explained by John Riccitiello since he was at Elevation at the BioWare/Pandemic acquisition and of course now leads EA. But seriously... $800 million?

[Human Snorenado]

For 800 million, you'd think they could get better looking trees in Dragon Age, or figure out how to do the top down viewpoint in the extra YEAR of console dev time that it got.

[archie4208]

Since EA acquired Bioware and Pandemic, what games have those studios released?  The only ones I can think of are Mercenaries 2 (buggy as hell, didn't sell well), Mass Effect PC and Dragon Age. 

[Great Rumbler]

Since EA acquired Bioware and Pandemic, what games have those studios released?  The only ones I can think of are Mercenaries 2 (buggy as hell, didn't sell well), Mass Effect PC and Dragon Age. 

Bioware has released the Sonic RPG, Mass Effect PC, and Dragon Age; in a few months they'll release Mass Effect 2.

Pandemic has released Mercs 2 and Lord of the Rings: Conquest; in less than a month they'll release Saboteur.

[Stoney Mason]

Bioware is a solid investment and company that will continue to pay off for years to come and gives them a strong presence in a market they didn't have. Nothing wrong with that purchase.


Pandemic on the other hand has been mostly a bust and I always thought they were an overated dev house in the first place.

[demi]

Mass Shitfest PC wasnt from Bioware

[Stoney Mason]

Bioware is a solid investment and company that will continue to pay off for years to come and gives them a strong presence in a market they didn't have. Nothing wrong with that purchase.


Pandemic on the other hand has been mostly a bust and I always thought they were an overated dev house in the first place.

http://kotaku.com/5406449/rumor-rip-pandemic-studios-1998+2009?skyline=true&s=x

[Great Rumbler]

Bioware is a solid investment and company that will continue to pay off for years to come and gives them a strong presence in a market they didn't have. Nothing wrong with that purchase.


Pandemic on the other hand has been mostly a bust and I always thought they were an overated dev house in the first place.

http://kotaku.com/5406449/rumor-rip-pandemic-studios-1998+2009?skyline=true&s=x

Why wouldn't they wait at least until Saboteur came out?

[Stoney Mason]

Why wouldn't they wait at least until Saboteur came out?

Well its just a rumour I suppose but its not like that game is going to sell anyway. I'm sure the game is pretty much finished and either in the submission process or done with it. The game is effectively "out" in that sense.