Mass Effect 2 Thread

[Great Rumbler]

i would prefer more rpg elements AND competent shooting. there's no reason whatsoever not to expect both.

as it has been stated many times already it just seems like they dumbed it all the way down in an effort to cater to the call of duty crowd.

I agree.  That's why I'm looking forward to Alpha Protocol

When is AP due out?

"Spring 2010" 

[cool breeze]

i would prefer more rpg elements AND competent shooting. there's no reason whatsoever not to expect both.

as it has been stated many times already it just seems like they dumbed it all the way down in an effort to cater to the call of duty crowd.

I agree.  That's why I'm looking forward to Alpha Protocol

When is AP due out?

according to Amazon, the end of May.  but it will probably be delayed for the sixth time or something.
 

[Himu]

i would prefer more rpg elements AND competent shooting. there's no reason whatsoever not to expect both.

as it has been stated many times already it just seems like they dumbed it all the way down in an effort to cater to the call of duty crowd.

After seeing how much that game sold i can see them trying to get that crowd.

But the main draw to CoD is the multi. ME DOESN'T HAVE MULTI.

[Raban]

Regen health is not by any means a bad thing.

I strongly disagree.

About regenerating health in general I don't actually care for it.  The defense you hear for it is that it allows for each battle to be designed knowing you have full health.  But I like planning ahead and gaining and advantage in the upcoming battle or even feeling like I have to play more cautious when my health is low.

Regenerating health in ME2 is, I don't think, a big departure from the first game.  Between recharging health being an armor power up, you also had medigel flying out your ass on every difficulty.  This is just bad design replacing worse design.

I think it's always bullshit. On the final boss in ME I ran out of medi-gel and I was inches from death the entire time, with my entire crew dead. Made the battle 1000 times better. Health packs are an extremely underrated element of game design. Part of Half-Life 2's intensity is the sparsity of health packs, and how you manage yourself when you aren't sure how far you are from the next one.

Regen health is one of those things that contributes to games getting insultingly easy as time goes on. It's never appropriate, beneficial, or positive in any way, in any situation.

[Himu]

But, in rpgs at least, like in DA, your health only regens after battle. So even if you're in the middle of the battle, it's not going to recharge fast enough. It doesn't take away any strategic element.

In games like FF13, Valkyrie Profile 2 and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, your health is regenerated from battle to battle and yet people still claim Dragon Quarter to be OMG SO HARD.

In many strategy games, your health is renewed from battle to battle, and yet these games remain challenging.

In multiplayer shooters, you have regen health and it doesn't make the games any less challenging.

It wholly depends, just like any other piece of game design. Just because a game has regen health doesn't mean it lacks a strategic element in its gameplay. If anything, especially when it comes to rpgs, regenerated and renewed health means each battle continues to be its own scenario and situation, because the developers don't have to dumb down enemies to pander to the player's need for health. This makes each and every battle a unique situation.

[Stoney Mason]

Watch Stoney defend this.

Jeez you are dumb.


I'll make all my posts about what was good or bad when I actually play the game. I don't play internet psychic like you do.

Nor do I pretend Mass Effect 1 was some ultimate game nor some ultimate RPG. It was what it was. And Mass Effect 2 will be what it will be. And I'll judge it based on that.

[Raban]

But, in rpgs at least, like in DA, your health only regens after battle. So even if you're in the middle of the battle, it's not going to recharge fast enough. It doesn't take away any strategic element.

In games like FF13, Valkyrie Profile 2 and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, your health is regenerated from battle to battle and yet people still claim Dragon Quarter to be OMG SO HARD.

In many strategy games, your health is renewed from battle to battle, and yet these games remain challenging.

In multiplayer shooters, you have regen health and it doesn't make the games any less challenging.

It wholly depends, just like any other piece of game design. Just because a game has regen health doesn't mean it lacks a strategic element in its gameplay. If anything, especially when it comes to rpgs, regenerated and renewed health means each battle continues to be its own scenario and situation, because the developers don't have to dumb down enemies to pander to the player's need for health. This makes each and every battle a unique situation.

I only listed affecting the difficult of the game as an example, not really the only problem I have with health regen. I just like my health packs. There was nothing wrong with them. It's something that wasn't broken in the first place, and was fixed anyway. I'm not sure if a specific game started the trend, but it's a shitty trend.

[cool breeze]

I really disagree about regenerating health in multiplayer.  The best moments of Counter Striker were being the last members alive, low health, and going around with a silenced weapon trying to pick off the remaining enemies knowing that you could be killed that much easier.

the entire reason someone can go and get an 11 kill streak in MW2 is because you can just hide out and be ready to take on the next guy at full strength.  In older shooters, you may have died, but you could have also damaged him.  All you do now is have him waste some ammo.

[Raban]

I really disagree about regenerating health in multiplayer.  The best moments of Counter Striker were being the last members alive, low health, and going around with a silenced weapon trying to pick off the remaining enemies knowing that you could be killed that much easier.

the entire reason someone can go and get an 11 kill streak in MW2 is because you can just hide out and be ready to take on the next guy at full strength.  In older shooters, you may have died, but you could have also damaged him.  All you do now is have him waste some ammo.

Wait there's health regen in multiplayer now? What in the fuck.

[The Fake Shemp]

There's been health regeneration in multiplayer since Halo

[Stoney Mason]

There's been health regeneration in multiplayer since Halo

Even before in a few cases and nearly every shooter on the market does it this way now including PC ones. Gasp.


It's fine to have a preference for anything but when the majority of people prefer a design decision, the rest of the world moves on.

Good riddance to Medi-Gel!

 


Mass Effect bro edition confirmed!

[Himu]

Watch Stoney defend this.

Jeez you are dumb.


I'll make all my posts about what was good or bad when I actually play the game. I don't play internet psychic like you do.

Nor do I pretend Mass Effect 1 was some ultimate game nor some ultimate RPG. It was what it was. And Mass Effect 2 will be what it will be. And I'll judge it based on that.

I was just messing with you.  :'(

[Stoney Mason]

Watch Stoney defend this.

Jeez you are dumb.


I'll make all my posts about what was good or bad when I actually play the game. I don't play internet psychic like you do.

Nor do I pretend Mass Effect 1 was some ultimate game nor some ultimate RPG. It was what it was. And Mass Effect 2 will be what it will be. And I'll judge it based on that.

I was just messing with you.  :'(

sigh.

I need to stay out of this thread. For some reason it makes me angry and my sense of humour dries up.

[Himu]

Well, evilbore rule number 1 is to bust everyone's balls.

[Stoney Mason]

Well, evilbore rule number 1 is to bust everyone's balls.

Fair enough.

[Great Rumbler]

Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 don't have regenerating health. Must be why they're so awesome.

[Himu]

I completely agree Great Rumbler.

But they're also team based games, and those are the best multi games that aren't fighters.

[brawndolicious]

Regenerating health makes sense in any game where you can't prepare for your fights several minutes ahead (ie: L4D and Team Fortress and other team-based shooters don't need it).

In Mass Effect, you can obviously pause the game at any time, but it probably isn't anything like FPS games where all your health comes back in a few seconds.  Their main reason for getting medigel is probably because you could just hoard it and act like a tank in the first game.

I think it's always bullshit. On the final boss in ME I ran out of medi-gel and I was inches from death the entire time, with my entire crew dead. Made the battle 1000 times better. Health packs are an extremely underrated element of game design. Part of Half-Life 2's intensity is the sparsity of health packs, and how you manage yourself when you aren't sure how far you are from the next one.
Regen health is one of those things that contributes to games getting insultingly easy as time goes on. It's never appropriate, beneficial, or positive in any way, in any situation.

In my experience, the game gave so much medigel that it actually made most boss battles too easy.

[Cormacaroni]

Grinding dozens of collectable side-missions to make yourself more charming...yeah, that's an RPG trait alright. IRL, your character would just be more BORING, not more charming.

[Himu]

FINALLY

Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 2 Digital Deluxe Edition

[Himu]

Does anyone know if Bring Down the Sky choices will be in ME2? Because I left my me pc box and cd key at home, so now i can't put in my cd key to get BDtS.

[Cormacaroni]

Except if the side missions involved partying it up in space cantinas or visiting beautiful alien worlds.

Why would behaving like you make anyone more charismatic?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i keed i keed

[close]

[cool breeze]

Does anyone know if Bring Down the Sky choices will be in ME2? Because I left my me pc box and cd key at home, so now i can't put in my cd key to get BDtS.

I don't think it was on the list of things ME2 imported, but it would be cool if it was.  Maybe the first ME2 DLC will be about that choice!

[Himu]

Got BDtS working

[Howard Alan Treesong]

ME2 is available for purchase on Steam now woo

[Himu]

PC Gamer UK: 90%

"Faster paced action and difficult ethical decisions make Mass Effec 2 even more immersive than the excellent original."

"you no longer have an inventory. its been replaced by a more abstract system, similar to a pure action game. Instead of loot drops abd containers full of equipable gear, you find technology pickups that can be researched on your ship to unlock new weapons."

"Also gone are equipment mods, replaced by castable abilities.... The miserably clunky inventory system of ME1 is no longer a problem, although the new weapon load-out and research interfaces aren't great either."

"character development(skills) has also been culled down to six or seven upgradeable skills for shepard and just four for companions. Has ME2 been dumbed down? Yeah abit, but these changes don't make it a worse game than its predecessor; it just haas some different priorities this time around,"

"Where Mass Effect 2 completely won me over was in the amazing climacitc mission, easily one of the best game endings i've played in recent years."

" The charm and intimidation skills that unlocked special conversation options in the first game have been melded into the Paragon/Renegade system, which now unlocks options based on how much of a swell guy or jerk you've been. "

" The way Paragon and Renegade points are handed out could have been better, however. Often you're dealing with an issue so ambiguous that either path could be seen as good or bad, and when I'm trying to be a good guy it awards me Renegade points without telling me what it was that I did to earn them. "

" The levels are attractive, but a bit blocky and workman like. Some have inexplicable waist-high barriers that pop out of the ground when combat begins to provide cover. It's so contrived it feels like an in-joke for cover-based shooter players. "

" But each has two character specific missions : one to recruit them and one optional personal that exposes their backstory and unlocks a special skill and new outfit. "

[maxy]

"
"you no longer have an inventory. its been replaced by a more abstract system, similar to a pure action game. Instead of loot drops abd containers full of equipable gear, you find technology pickups that can be researched on your ship to unlock new weapons."
 "

  :'( :'(

Oh,well...i have to start preparing myself for Gears of War in space

Edit:666 post,this game is cursed for me  :'(

[Himu]

Why did they meld charm/intimidation into alignment? That's stoopit and neither option has nothing to do with alignment.

This game sounds about as dumbed down (as far as rpgs go) as Jade Empire.

edit:

"While bioware have done a wonderful job in tying up the story between both games, there are a few holes in the continuing story that shepard could drive a fist through: there's virtually no mention of the spectres, the agency that governed shepard's actions in the first story. no active spectres show up, and shepard may or may not be a valid member of the inter-stellar superagent club himself this time round. its also strange that the alliance government that dominated the galaxy in the first game plays such a small role in the second, and makes no effort to stop Cerberus or capture the illusive man. but i'd still rank ME2 as better written, better acted and better looking than all but the very best of the past decade of science fiction television and film."

Are you serious?

[brawndolicious]

He must have not seen Moon, YEAH!.

Why did they meld charm/intimidation into alignment? That's stoopit and neither option has nothing to do with alignment.

But charm and intimidate often created different results iirc.

[Himu]

He's not saying it's better than, he's saying it's up there or on par with.

On charm/intimidate, it wholly depends. Sometimes intimidating someone into not fighting you is better than killing them.

But sometimes you can charm your way into something completely questionable.

Neither option should be tied down to alignment.

[brawndolicious]

Yeah but I'm pretty sure intimidating somebody into giving up instead of charming them usually gave you less paragon points or even renegade points, so it would have probably made sense in the last game if they tied it to alignment.

[Great Rumbler]

If you're a sleazy guy that bashes faces in for a living, it would probably be kind of hard to come across as charming and likeable. Whereas if you're the world's greatest guy who goes around saving puppies and helping old ladies across the street, you probably aren't going to be taken too seriously by underworld types.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Himu]

 It seems to me that Bioware has two different series for two different things now.

Dragon Age will be for the rpg geeks who like loot, customization and awesome and hardcore action. The budget is rather low to compensate for more hardcore gameplay.

While Mass Effect will be for the CoD crowd with light rpg elements. The budget is higher.

Ya know what? I'm totally fine with that. But Bioware should really stop advertising this as an rpg first these days.

[demi]

But it's still an RPG. Sorry if LARPing is your thing, geek.

[Himu]

Yeah but I'm pretty sure intimidating somebody into giving up instead of charming them usually gave you less paragon points or even renegade points, so it would have probably made sense in the last game if they tied it to alignment.

Well that's the problem with Bioware's alignment systems in general though. It's very black and white.

[Himu]

But it's still an RPG. Sorry if LARPing is your thing, geek.

[Jansen]

oh my god i can't believe they added cover that pops out of the ground gears style

[Himu]

[demi]

What pops out of the ground in Gears?

[Jansen]

in gears 2 when you're in the hive there are several places where you can stand on something that causes cover to pop up.

[maxy]

What pops out of the ground in Gears?

In Gears 2 there is one level that has cover that pops out,sometime before Cole does his famous speech,i think

[cool breeze]

not just cover, but perfect waist high cover

it's pretty hilarious that it's also in ME2

[Great Rumbler]

Let's not kid ourselves here, the best parts of Mass Effect 1 were the world-building, story, characters, writing, and music. Not the RPG system or the combat.

[Himu]

Uh, the story is average. It's just another typical Bioware thing where they build this universe around all this detailed crap but the story itself sucks.

The characters were good, but completely underdeveloped too.

I like ME because I like the combat; it's not perfect, but it's fun. And I also like the rpg'ing and story quests.

[cool breeze]

Let's not kid ourselves here, the best parts of Mass Effect 1 were the world-building, story, characters, writing, and music. Not the RPG system or the combat.

Exactly (except would disagree about most characters except Garrus).  If ME1 was a great RPG I would understand if people were upset by the change.

Remember the great loot in ME1? Assassin Armor 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10.  So many choices.

[Great Rumbler]

I like ME because I like the combat; it's not perfect, but it's fun. And I also like the rpg'ing and story quests.

Well, the combat in this has apparently been made even better over the first game and attention has been paid to making the sidequests and side planets more interesting, so there you go.

[Himu]

Let's not kid ourselves here, the best parts of Mass Effect 1 were the world-building, story, characters, writing, and music. Not the RPG system or the combat.

Exactly (except would disagree about most characters except Garrus).  If ME1 was a great RPG I would understand if people were upset by the change.

Remember the great loot in ME1? Assassin Armor 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10.  So many choices.

Because instead of making it better, they completely ditched it. If you like rpgs, and want an rpg, you want a better experience, not a downgraded experience.

[Himu]

Wrex > Garrus > Ashley > Tali >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kaiden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Liara

[Great Rumbler]

Wrex > Garrus > Tali > Liara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kaiden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley

Fixed.

[Himu]

Liara sucks. She is so boring. She even admits she's boring.

At least Ashley will put a shotgun to your face.

[cool breeze]

Garrus is the best character in ME1

Let's not kid ourselves here, the best parts of Mass Effect 1 were the world-building, story, characters, writing, and music. Not the RPG system or the combat.

Exactly (except would disagree about most characters except Garrus).  If ME1 was a great RPG I would understand if people were upset by the change.

Remember the great loot in ME1? Assassin Armor 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10.  So many choices.

Because instead of making it better, they completely ditched it. If you like rpgs, and want an rpg, you want a better experience, not a downgraded experience.

I do like rpgs, and I do want an rpg, and Mass Effect 1 was a bad rpg but an all around good game despite that.  Like I said, I would understand the problem if Mass Effect 1 had good RPG elements.  All ME2 seems like to me is them not acting so damn flimsy about what they want the game to be.  They've already shown that they are keeping what I liked about ME1 and removing/fixing everything that sucked.  It's not the best solution (which would be making it a good rpg and good shooter) but they're solution still seems better than what ME1 was.

[Himu]

The problem is that instead of making it into a better rpg, they ditched the rpg stuff in general. That's weak thinking. When I play a sequel, I want the sequel bigger and better in every way. Not with less features, especially if those features could have been improved upon.

But hey, ME2 looks like a great game despite all of this.

I'll think of it as Space Marines: The Wannabe RPG.

[Great Rumbler]

Liara sucks. She is so boring. She even admits she's boring.

BUT she's a space lesbian. And that gets points in my book.

[Himu]

True. That's the only good thing about Liara.

Fuck, at least Kaiden has a fucked up head due to the biotic implants. Liara is snoresville.

[Raban]

Can we all just agree that the human characters are boring as fuck and chalk up our ranking of alien squadmates to personal taste?

[Himu]

But I'm a human in ME and I'm not a boring character. Joker's not boring either!

[demi]

Didnt care for any of them really. Alistair is more bro than any of ME1

[cool breeze]

The problem is that instead of making it into a better rpg, they ditched the rpg stuff in general. That's weak thinking. When I play a sequel, I want the sequel bigger and better in every way. Not with less features, especially if those features could have been improved upon.

But hey, ME2 looks like a great game despite all of this.

I'll think of it as Space Marines: The Wannabe RPG.

So you'll think of it as Mass Effect 1

basically what I'm trying to say is, if you liked ME1, you will probably like ME2.  They could have made it a better rpg and shooter, and while that would have been nice, ME2 is at least fixing the problems from the first game even if that means removing them.  I'm fine with that.  Everything I liked about Mass Effect 1 seems intact if not improved while things I didn't like or was indifferent towards are gone (or changed).

[Raban]

But I'm a human in ME and I'm not a boring character. Joker's not boring either!

Joker? Are you kidding? It's Seth Green being Seth Green!

And the more I read about ME2 the less excited I am for it. I'm still getting it because the first game was spectacular, but I'm not as hyped up as I once was.

[Himu]

But I'm a human in ME and I'm not a boring character. Joker's not boring either!

Joker? Are you kidding? It's Seth Green being Seth Green!

I like the way he handles his disease and the fact that he interjects comedy in almost every conversation. He's a really likable character. I wish he more lines.