Why Duke Nukem took forever

[Stoney Mason]

Decent read on the whole Duke Nukem fiasco. (I honestly forgot Wired even existed)

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_duke_nukem/all/1

[ToxicAdam]

Wired is still a great magazine, you should subscribe. You can get 12 issues for like 16 bucks or something.

[Joe Molotov]

Not really anything new there; I think everyone that's followed the development of DNF knows that Broussard was a perfectionist that didn't know when to quit upgrading and updating and just make a damn game.

[Sho Nuff]

Abstract:

It's Broussard's fault

[Stoney Mason]

Not really anything new there; I think everyone that's followed the development of DNF knows that Broussard was a perfectionist that didn't know when to quit upgrading and updating and just make a damn game.

True although there was some new insight for me as I didn't especially follow the game that much other than knowing that the dev process for it was a trainwreck.

[Sho Nuff]

I remember Broussard demoing it for me at E3 1999 and I nearly crapped my pants. Seriously, it was absolutely amazing and they could have shipped a polished version of that and they would have won. This is back when it was running on Quake 2 I think.

[Sho Nuff]

nah, probably Unreal.

Hmm. The demo I saw had Duke fighting on the back of a flatbed truck outrunning a nuclear shockwave as C-130s flew in and dropped motorcycles with pig cops on the highway. Also had some stuff with jetskis. I vaguely remember a strip club too.

I am pretty sure that one was running on Quake because a year after that I wrote a cover story on Duke immediately after they switched to Unreal.

Hmm. Let me check my email backlog and see if I can dig anything up.

[ManaByte]

nah, probably Unreal.

Hmm. The demo I saw had Duke fighting on the back of a flatbed truck outrunning a nuclear shockwave as C-130s flew in and dropped motorcycles with pig cops on the highway. Also had some stuff with jetskis. I vaguely remember a strip club too.

I am pretty sure that one was running on Quake because a year after that I wrote a cover story on Duke immediately after they switched to Unreal.

Hmm. Let me check my email backlog and see if I can dig anything up.

That's the Quake II version.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

I would kill to play the 2001 Duke Nukem Forever.

[Third]

They jinxed the game themselves by putting "Forever" behind it.

[cool breeze]

[youtube=560,345]iPX_y7wP_ko[/youtube]

I don't know what version that is, but I wanted to play that.  The videos that came out of the most recent one looked like crap.

[ManaByte]

That's Quake II. I don't think they ever did a trailer for the Unreal version.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

That's the 2001 version I was talking about. If they released that back then it would have been huge, but Broussard stubbornly demanded that they switch engines again.

[cool breeze]

Even watching it now, I'd totally buy it if it was an XBLA game or something with what's left pieced together. 

[ManaByte]

Unreal did outside environments, true, but Quake II was an awesome engine. Just look at Half-Life. There really isn't a Unreal powered game that came close to the popularity of that.

[The Fake Shemp]

Good read, but totally depressing at the same time.

[Cravis]

What's Broussard plans? Or has he said anything. I'm sure most companies wouldn't want to touch him with a ten foot pole at this point unless they were badly in need of publicity.

[Stoney Mason]

Teams without proper milestones can fuck up anything.  I worked with a team (from outside) that had scads of cash, talent, and endless time to complete a game.  They fucked it up beyond belief because they weren't working towards anything beyond some nebulous vision.

Speaking a bit from experience there was a massive change in development that took place in the late 90's to the early part of this decade. You had to become very large to compete to put out quality product on a AAA level. A lot of devs simply couldn't make the transition of being able to manage teams of the size they needed to be. It was actually a pretty common process of these smaller devs getting weeded out. The only difference seems to be that they had the money to delay the inevitable.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Perhaps one day the IP will somehow end up in the hands of competent developers. Maybe.

[The Fake Shemp]

I say use that to your advantage, mojovonio. Create a Captain America-type storyline, where he's thawed out in the future and horribly antiquated, and use it as a way to satire the 90s.

... Y'know, like Matt Hazard, except not suck.

(Essentially, DEMOLITION MAN: THE VIDEOGAME)

[Stoney Mason]

The game may have been fun, but is it really anything beyond a relic of the 90s?

Sort of my thought also.

And if the current game was really kick-ass I'm guessing Take Two would have allowed it to finish even after wasting money on it.

[ManaByte]

I say use that to your advantage, mojovonio. Create a Captain America-type storyline, where he's thawed out in the future and horribly antiquated, and use it as a way to satire the 90s.

... Y'know, like Matt Hazard, except not suck.

(Essentially, DEMOLITION MAN: THE VIDEOGAME)

[Stoney Mason]

I always thought Duke Nukem would have a tougher time if it was resurrected in this day and age anyway. (Although people will play anything good so that would have been its best bet. To be a quality shooter)

But a lot of the things Duke Nukem was a parody of (Bruce Campbell movies, John Carpenter flicks, Stallone, Schwarzenegger, are no longer really culturally relevant to this younger generation). It's no longer an especially edgy IP.

[cool breeze]

The game may have been fun, but is it really anything beyond a relic of the 90s?

I was playing doom xbla yesterday (or two days ago...I've lost sense of time) and was thinking about how I wish more modern shooters were like that.  Most shooters now either feature a cover system, or if they don't, you still hide behind a box waiting for health to recharge.  I can only think of Painkiller and Serious Sam as games that made you feel like a badass taking on all these monsters.  Gears dude is a total wimp hiding behind waist high cover.  Doom guy is fighting off flying heads that shoot fire with five health, no armor, and only using a pistol.

[Stoney Mason]

The game may have been fun, but is it really anything beyond a relic of the 90s?

I was playing doom xbla yesterday (or two days ago...I've lost sense of time) and was thinking about how I wish more modern shooters were like that.  Most shooters now either feature a cover system, or if they don't, you still hide behind a box waiting for health to recharge.  I can only think of Painkiller and Serious Sam as games that made you feel like a badass taking on all these monsters.  Gears dude is a total wimp hiding behind waist high cover.  Doom guy is fighting off flying heads that shoot fire with five health, no armor, and only using a pistol.

There is a niche market for that sort of stuff but that's what it is. A niche market. Ala Serious Sam.

[Great Rumbler]

The game may have been fun, but is it really anything beyond a relic of the 90s?

I was playing doom xbla yesterday (or two days ago...I've lost sense of time) and was thinking about how I wish more modern shooters were like that.  Most shooters now either feature a cover system, or if they don't, you still hide behind a box waiting for health to recharge.  I can only think of Painkiller and Serious Sam as games that made you feel like a badass taking on all these monsters.  Gears dude is a total wimp hiding behind waist high cover.  Doom guy is fighting off flying heads that shoot fire with five health, no armor, and only using a pistol.

There's always hope with Doom 4.

[cool breeze]

The game may have been fun, but is it really anything beyond a relic of the 90s?

I was playing doom xbla yesterday (or two days ago...I've lost sense of time) and was thinking about how I wish more modern shooters were like that.  Most shooters now either feature a cover system, or if they don't, you still hide behind a box waiting for health to recharge.  I can only think of Painkiller and Serious Sam as games that made you feel like a badass taking on all these monsters.  Gears dude is a total wimp hiding behind waist high cover.  Doom guy is fighting off flying heads that shoot fire with five health, no armor, and only using a pistol.

There is a niche market for that sort of stuff but that's what it is. A niche market. Ala Serious Sam.

which is why I don't care if these games retail, expensive, or are highly produced.  Painkiller and Serious Sam are both years old by now.  All recent games of that style are supposed to be disappointing (dreamkiller).  Just make these games cheap and put them on XBLA, Steam, PSN, w/e.

and personally, I do think Painkiller and Serious Sam are a bit over the top.  Games like Doom, Wolf3D, Hexen, Duke3D, etc. never got that crazy.  They're still fun, I'd just like some middle ground.

like, for all the 'indie' games there are out there, no one seems to be making shooters.  One of the only ones I've played was 8-bit killer, and it was pretty awesome.

[youtube=560,345]TTCvaJheK34[/youtube]

[Stoney Mason]

which is why I don't care if these games retail, expensive, or are highly produced.  Painkiller and Serious Sam are both years old by now.  All recent games of that style are supposed to be disappointing (dreamkiller).  Just make these games cheap and put them on XBLA, Steam, PSN, w/e.

and personally, I do think Painkiller and Serious Sam are a bit over the top.  Games like Doom, Wolf3D, Hexen, Duke3D, etc. never got that crazy.  They're still fun, I'd just like some middle ground.

like, for all the 'indie' games there are out there, no one seems to be making shooters.  One of the only ones I've played was 8-bit killer, and it was pretty awesome.

Fair enough.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I've said this before but the thing that makes this really ridiculous is that Duke games are inherently extremely ephemeral works of entertainment.  They're all about being loud and dumb, and not even in original ways.  If something can't make it for Duke 4, they should've just pushed it back to Duke 5, etc.  It's absurd to treat it like something that needs to be polished to absolute perfection over however many years.

[Dickie Dee]

Kinda a sad story, I'd assumed the whole time they were just a bunch of grifters.

A good lesson to take away though, set clearly defined goals and work to meet them even if those goals fall short of your ideals.

[OptimoPeach]

I've never played a single Duke Nukem game. True story

[Don Flamenco]

I say use that to your advantage, mojovonio. Create a Captain America-type storyline, where he's thawed out in the future and horribly antiquated, and use it as a way to satire the 90s.

... Y'know, like Matt Hazard, except not suck.

(Essentially, DEMOLITION MAN: THE VIDEOGAME)

That's the exact thing. Like Matt hazard BUT...

Funny games are the hardest thing to make.

like Matt Hazard BUT Taco Bell wins the fast food franchise wars and they sell a taco that's just a soft shell saturated in volcano sauce

[Stoney Mason]

I've never played a single Duke Nukem game. True story

Outside of Duke Nukem 3D I would say you haven't missed much and even if you played 3D today I would probably say its pretty easy to miss why it was such a big deal when it came out without some context.

For a time and period in the 90's it was the best multiplayer game fps game out there. And it contrasted nicely with the big dog on the block. Doom was the game set in hell with no real protagonist for you to identify with. Duke Nukem was the one with the comic book character lead and set in realistic (for the time) actual real world environments. 

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Good read.

Duke is just a novelty of the mid 90s but I bet it could be successfully relaunched if Take Two were so inclined.