Meme Machine Memorial Thread of Things You Saw on Reddit

[Himu]

36 Chambers is art, too. One really shouldn't have to explain why.

Fuck, even Britney Spears is art. You may not like it or agree with it or see an appealing message there but it is art. Or, at the very least, the application of an artistic form. Music is an art form.

Because music is an artform does not mean all music is art.

[BlueTsunami]

36 Chambers is art, too. One really shouldn't have to explain why.

Fuck, even Britney Spears is art. You may not like it or agree with it or see an appealing message there but it is art. Or, at the very least, the application of an artistic form. Music is an art form.

I agree with Shake. I'm of the mindset that everyone can be an artist but only the ones that have a true grasp on their mediums can do something special with it (convey their vision, expression, emotion whatever). I'm sure theres an awesome quote by some old dude who lived a thousand years ago that can convey my point better  :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

36 Chambers is art, too. One really shouldn't have to explain why.

Fuck, even Britney Spears is art. You may not like it or agree with it or see an appealing message there but it is art. Or, at the very least, the application of an artistic form. Music is an art form.

I agree with Shake. I'm of the mindset that everyone can be an artist but only the ones that have a true grasp on their mediums can do something special with it (convey their vision, expression, emotion whatever). I'm sure theres an awesome quote by some old dude who lived a thousand years ago that can convey my point better  :'(

this

Just because Soulja Boy is an artist doesn't mean he's Bob Dylan

[The Dark Shake 3000]

36 Chambers is art, too. One really shouldn't have to explain why.

Fuck, even Britney Spears is art. You may not like it or agree with it or see an appealing message there but it is art. Or, at the very least, the application of an artistic form. Music is an art form.

Because music is an artform does not mean all music is art.

Art is largely dependent on what it elicits from its audience, not just on what the intention behind it's existence was. A Britney Spears album may just be some crass commercial nonsense created by a bunch of old white guys to make a quick buck, but if it has an emotional effect on the listener and does succeed at transmitting some sort of message to the listener, who are you to say it isn't art? Just because you don't like or agree with the message or even see a message there doesn't mean there isn't one, or that someone else won't see the message or have the emotional response a particular piece of art has failed to elicit from you.

The definition of art is very broad and pretty all-encompassing. Why? Because it's an idea; art isn't tangible. It's far easier to define what is or isn't an art form (i.e. music is, but video games aren't).

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Another big problem is how in our culture "art" has taken on some sort of descriptive emphasis, i.e. "art films" or "such in such is a work of art". Art shouldn't be a term used to describe something. Art simply is. Avatar is just as much art as Funny Games; just because they're working on different levels and doing different things doesn't mean one is art and the other isn't. Art isn't dependent on the quality of a piece of work, or how well it manages to express its message or its ideology. Simply having them makes them works of art.

[Fresh Prince]

Art elicits emotion

That was aimed towards himu.

[Cheebs]

Himuro which of these paintings is art?



The answer is both equally. 

[Fresh Prince]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is no answer.

[close]

[Himu]

Let me play this then. What if the consumer of material, finds meaning in the material even though the material maker did not intend it?

It's art, then - for them at least - but that doesn't make it artistic to me as art is subjective. PD trying to convince us of the "depth" of that verse by Jay Electronica is a great example. My standards are pretty clear cut. Art can, but not always has to elicit emotion. A shovel painted green and tied to a sign can be art if the creator had a message or creative intent. But in many cases it seems as if people are only looking into what they want. That verse from Jay Electronica is just a bunch of random words from various religions, it's not deep. This is the same beef I have with Xenogears and Xenosaga fans.

What I find most hip hop to be is disposable music and even when you get to the good hip hop, it's usually about the same subject.

The difference here is that unlike PD, I am able to separate something I enjoy - in this case, some hip hop - with what I actually value in art. I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed" or "Nice flow." Because it's enjoyable does not mean it has artistic depth or merit. Of course, there's exceptions, and I haven't painted all hip hop to be like this and I could say the same fucking thing about rock.

And unlike what PD seems to think, art does not have to be complicated: the two clips I posted are pretty good examples of artistic music through poetry and they keep it nice and simple. Common raps about his love for a girl that goes awry, the girl being revealed to be hip hop in the last verse, which takes a whole different spin on the entire song. The John Wayne Gay Jr. song is pretty fucking artistic as well: "And in my best behavior, I am really just like him, Look beneath the floorboards, For the secrets I have hid" stick with you. This shit isn't complicated. One song is about love and passion, the other is about the secrets we hide from each other.

Like I said before, hip hop can be artistic just like rock can be artistic. But even from the rappers I like, there's still more flash rather than substance and attempts to rhyme rather than actually trying say something meaningful. And when they do attempt to say something meaningful, like I said on the last page, it's the same shit: black people got fucked by the white man, I used to sell drugs, life sucks. This is why I mostly stick with 80's hip hop which has a more diverse range of subject matter. That, or electronic music.

[Himu]

Himuro which of these paintings is art?
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

The answer is both equally. 

Both.

[Fresh Prince]

himu wins. michigan brat pack loses.

[Cheebs]

Your taste in art is subjective but being art itself is not. All novels are art, the shitty ones and the great ones.

Hannah Montana music is as much art as The Beatles. quality is meaningless when it comes to defining art.

[Fresh Prince]

Nup the consumer defines what art is. It is totally subjective. Arvie

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed"

Himu should write for Pitchfork

[Cheebs]

Nup the consumer defines what art is. It is totally subjective. Arvie

The happy birthday song is art.

[Himu]

The issue here is not quality.

It is intent and subject matter.

Although The Beatles could be said to be whores for cash, they were still credible artists. I cannot say the same for Hannah Montana, who is obviously about making green and nothing more.

Beyond that, I cannot find anything remotely artistic about this:

[youtube=560,345]zta1y7UoYa8[/youtube]

And this is from my favorite rapper. What is the subject? What is the merit? What is the point? Oh, I'm going to write a rap about smokin', and guns, Young Guns and sheeeiiit. Right? That is not art. It's an enjoyable song, though. Only pre-teens can't tell the difference.

[Cheebs]

Although The Beatles could be said to be whores for cash, they were still credible artists. I cannot say the same for Hannah Montana, who is obviously about making green and nothing more.

First off their intention is meaningless. Art is art. Second who is to say you know what an artists intentions are?

[Fresh Prince]

You listen to it and say it's art. I listen to it and it's not art.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Art isn't subjective. What's subjective is the personal response you have to it. I could literally scribble a bunch of shit on a piece of paper and it would be art.* Why? Because it's the application of an artistic form -- writing, literature, what have you -- and because it's a personal expression. Just the fact that I put the pen to the paper and scribbling something is me expressing something. I might not even know what I was expressing, and you probably wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it isn't art. What you qualify as art is irrelevant, at the end of the day. Art, like I said, is simply the act of expressing something through an accepted artistic form (music, the written word, film, etc. etc.). There are no quality judgments when it comes to labeling something art.

*Don't even try to argue this. There are literally gallery exhibits dedicated to showcasing this exact thing. Who are you to tell all those people that random scribbling on a piece of paper or a canvas isn't art?

[Himu]

I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed"

Himu should write for Pitchfork

[youtube=560,345]ZIPfQ-HtYeM[/youtube]

[Cheebs]

You listen to it and say it's art. I listen to it and it's not art.

Quality is subjective. saying art isn't art is like pointing to a statue and saying it isn't a statue. It is what it is.

[Himu]

Although The Beatles could be said to be whores for cash, they were still credible artists. I cannot say the same for Hannah Montana, who is obviously about making green and nothing more.

First off their intention is meaningless. Art is art. Second who is to say you know what an artists intentions are?

Because art is meant to convey emotion, right? Typically that is through intent.

By your argument, a wad of spit could be considered art. Hey, the spitter didn't mean for it to be art, but it's art due to its beauty and shape!

[BlueTsunami]

Shake already posted as much but Art shouldn't be synonymous with perceived quality (which is what exactly happened to the word). I'm so tempted to agree with you though, Himu, especially in this ring-tone generation and vocoder abuse.

[Himu]

Quality has nothing to do with whether something is art or not, in my opinion, and in my argument I have not once brought up quality.

[BlueTsunami]

By your argument, a wad a spit could be considered art. Hey, the spitter didn't mean for it to be art, but it's art due to its beauty and shape!

Its all about intention. Was the one who spit intending to make a statement and/or express something in however many ways spit could be used? I begins there.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Quality has nothing to do with whether something is art or not, in my opinion, and in my argument I have not once brought up quality.

You are, though. You keep saying "lolol this song can't be art because I don't think it has any artistic worth". That's a quality judgment. Hannah Montana is an artist and that Nas track is a work of art. This isn't really open to debate; what is open to debate is the personal reaction you have to that work of art or to that artist. But to repeatedly say something isn't art because you don't see any deep resonant meanings behind it it totally besides the point.

[Cheebs]

Quality has nothing to do with whether something is art or not, in my opinion, and in my argument I have not once brought up quality.

Then why is hannah montana not art? For all you know she thinks her music is amazing, I mean she has said Radiohead inspired her iirc . Even so intentions are meaningless. you say it's not art but also say you aren't judging on quality.


Himu do you see the happy birthday song as art?

[Fresh Prince]

I can point to a garbage can, declare it a statue and hence art.

[Ichirou]

How can I join the Michigan Wack Pack?  I notice Shake is a member and I don't think he's even been to Michigan.

I wanna sign up.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I can point to a garbage can, declare it a statue and hence art.

No, unless it was a statue or a painting of a garbage can. No artistic processes were taken in the creation of that garbage can.

[Cheebs]

I can point to a garbage can, declare it a statue and hence art.

No, unless it was a statue or a painting of a garbage can. No artistic processes were taken in the creation of that garbage can.

It was mass produced on a production line. A Hannah montana song is a original piece of work.

[Phoenix Dark]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Let me play this then. What if the consumer of material, finds meaning in the material even though the material maker did not intend it?

It's art, then - for them at least - but that doesn't make it artistic to me as art is subjective. PD trying to convince us of the "depth" of that verse by Jay Electronica is a great example. My standards are pretty clear cut. Art can, but not always has to elicit emotion. A shovel painted green and tied to a sign can be art if the creator had a message or creative intent. But in many cases it seems as if people are only looking into what they want. That verse from Jay Electronica is just a bunch of random words from various religions, it's not deep. This is the same beef I have with Xenogears and Xenosaga fans.

What I find most hip hop to be is disposable music and even when you get to the good hip hop, it's usually about the same subject.

The difference here is that unlike PD, I am able to separate something I enjoy - in this case, some hip hop - with what I actually value in art. I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed" or "Nice flow." Because it's enjoyable does not mean it has artistic depth or merit. Of course, there's exceptions, and I haven't painted all hip hop to be like this and I could say the same fucking thing about rock.

And unlike what PD seems to think, art does not have to be complicated: the two clips I posted are pretty good examples of artistic music through poetry and they keep it nice and simple. Common raps about his love for a girl that goes awry, the girl being revealed to be hip hop in the last verse, which takes a whole different spin on the entire song. The John Wayne Gay Jr. song is pretty fucking artistic as well: "And in my best behavior, I am really just like him, Look beneath the floorboards, For the secrets I have hid" stick with you. This shit isn't complicated. One song is about love and passion, the other is about the secrets we hide from each other.

Like I said before, hip hop can be artistic just like rock can be artistic. But even from the rappers I like, there's still more flash rather than substance and attempts to rhyme rather than actually trying say something meaningful. And when they do attempt to say something meaningful, like I said on the last page, it's the same shit: black people got fucked by the white man, I used to sell drugs, life sucks. This is why I mostly stick with 80's hip hop which has a more diverse range of subject matter. That, or electronic music.

[close]

You say you don't enjoy rap outside of "banger" type songs, then broadly generalize the genre as nothing more than tales of woe, white men, women, etc. I'm sorry but that's bullshit, and you know it. I could make similar negative generalizations about rock, electronica, pop, and every other genre of music if I based my opinion solely on what is played on the radio. Yet for some reason, that type of close minded argument is only applied to hip hop. A quick glance at Pitchfork's favorite albums of any particular year is a display of albums that gained critical success while being completely overlooked commercially. They pay almost no attention to the equivalent underground/indie/etc scenes in hip hop. And what we get is misinformed gentlemen such as yourself who complain about whatever southern snap song is being blasted by their roommate. fuckouttahere with that

80's hip hop was full of materialism and braggadocio. I know you "know" hip hop, so your statements are completely baffling me right now.

Disposable music exists obviously, but to generally put the label on hip hop is absurd. Some would label punk or pop disposable, and I think that's a good description for much of what I hear on the radio (ring tone songs for instance).

Your generalizations and casual ignorance are astounding. There is more to hip hop than materialism and flash. I know for a fact you've explored a lot of hip hop, so the comments on display here suggest a degree of willful ignorance and hypocrisy. Frankly, I'm tired of this finger-to-the-air bullshit from you.

[Himu]

Quality has nothing to do with whether something is art or not, in my opinion, and in my argument I have not once brought up quality.

Then why is hannah montana not art? For all you know she thinks her music is amazing, I mean she has said Radiohead inspired her iirc . Even so intentions are meaningless. you say it's not art but also say you aren't judging on quality.

I can see subject matter and form from a Sufjan Stevens song.

I often do not see defined subject matter or form in a Hanna Montana song.

In a Sufjan Stevens song I can get emotion from his singing and his lyrics that make me think.

With Hanna Montana I want to roll my eyes because she is not saying anything of value.



Even if Hannah Montana still had the same shitty writers, if she made songs about not-so-superficial things, I'd consider her art too.

Until then, she's a product.

[Phoenix Dark]

I can point to a garbage can, declare it a statue and hence art.

I'd also point out so far, you have added absolutely nothing to this conversation. But carry on.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I love how people point to the 80's as hip-hop's high point. Are you fucking kidding me? Ninety percent of hip-hop back then was the same lame braggadocio "hey baby come hop in my car" bullshit that current rap is. It's like making the argument that films were better in the 1950's; people focus on the good of past eras and forget how much mediocre shit surrounded them. In a few decades people will point to the 00's as hip-hop's golden age, because we got shit like "The College Dropout" out of it. They won't remember all the terrible Cash Money mixtapes and Soulja Boy records collecting flies in some huge garbage dump somewhere.

[Cheebs]

Even if Hannah Montana still had the same shitty writers, if she made songs about not-so-superficial things, I'd consider her art too.

So writing about superficial stuff means its automatically not art? That makes no sense at all.

[BlueTsunami]

We're all works of art, molded from the hands of the Lord'

[Phoenix Dark]

Quality has nothing to do with whether something is art or not, in my opinion, and in my argument I have not once brought up quality.

Then why is hannah montana not art? For all you know she thinks her music is amazing, I mean she has said Radiohead inspired her iirc . Even so intentions are meaningless. you say it's not art but also say you aren't judging on quality.

I can see subject matter and form from a Sufjan Stevens song.

I often do not see defined subject matter or form in a Hanna Montana song.

In a Sufjan Stevens song I can get emotion from his singing and his lyrics that make me think.

With Hanna Montana I want to roll my eyes because she is not saying anything of value.



Even if Hannah Montana still had the same shitty writers, if she made songs about not-so-superficial things, I'd consider her art too.

Until then, she's a product.

She's not saying anything of value to you apparently. I've spent enough time listening to Miley Cyrus as I help my god sister, female cousins, etc learn how to drive that I can say she has plenty of "non party" material. And apparently many girls find value in it. Get over yourself

[Fresh Prince]

No, unless it was a statue or a painting of a garbage can. No artistic processes were taken in the creation of that garbage can.
It was mass produced on a production line. A Hannah montana song is a original piece of work.

So Mr. Cheebs is kitsch art?

And some industrial designers are probably angry with you too.

[Himu]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Let me play this then. What if the consumer of material, finds meaning in the material even though the material maker did not intend it?

It's art, then - for them at least - but that doesn't make it artistic to me as art is subjective. PD trying to convince us of the "depth" of that verse by Jay Electronica is a great example. My standards are pretty clear cut. Art can, but not always has to elicit emotion. A shovel painted green and tied to a sign can be art if the creator had a message or creative intent. But in many cases it seems as if people are only looking into what they want. That verse from Jay Electronica is just a bunch of random words from various religions, it's not deep. This is the same beef I have with Xenogears and Xenosaga fans.

What I find most hip hop to be is disposable music and even when you get to the good hip hop, it's usually about the same subject.

The difference here is that unlike PD, I am able to separate something I enjoy - in this case, some hip hop - with what I actually value in art. I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed" or "Nice flow." Because it's enjoyable does not mean it has artistic depth or merit. Of course, there's exceptions, and I haven't painted all hip hop to be like this and I could say the same fucking thing about rock.

And unlike what PD seems to think, art does not have to be complicated: the two clips I posted are pretty good examples of artistic music through poetry and they keep it nice and simple. Common raps about his love for a girl that goes awry, the girl being revealed to be hip hop in the last verse, which takes a whole different spin on the entire song. The John Wayne Gay Jr. song is pretty fucking artistic as well: "And in my best behavior, I am really just like him, Look beneath the floorboards, For the secrets I have hid" stick with you. This shit isn't complicated. One song is about love and passion, the other is about the secrets we hide from each other.

Like I said before, hip hop can be artistic just like rock can be artistic. But even from the rappers I like, there's still more flash rather than substance and attempts to rhyme rather than actually trying say something meaningful. And when they do attempt to say something meaningful, like I said on the last page, it's the same shit: black people got fucked by the white man, I used to sell drugs, life sucks. This is why I mostly stick with 80's hip hop which has a more diverse range of subject matter. That, or electronic music.

[close]

You say you don't enjoy rap outside of "banger" type songs, then broadly generalize the genre as nothing more than tales of woe, white men, women, etc. I'm sorry but that's bullshit, and you know it. I could make similar negative generalizations about rock, electronica, pop, and every other genre of music if I based my opinion solely on what is played on the radio. Yet for some reason, that type of close minded argument is only applied to hip hop. A quick glance at Pitchfork's favorite albums of any particular year is a display of albums that gained critical success while being completely overlooked commercially. They pay almost no attention to the equivalent underground/indie/etc scenes in hip hop. And what we get is misinformed gentlemen such as yourself who complain about whatever southern snap song is being blasted by their roommate. fuckouttahere with that

80's hip hop was full of materialism and braggadocio. I know you "know" hip hop, so your statements are completely baffling me right now.

Disposable music exists obviously, but to generally put the label on hip hop is absurd. Some would label punk or pop disposable, and I think that's a good description for much of what I hear on the radio (ring tone songs for instance).

Your generalizations and casual ignorance are astounding. There is more to hip hop than materialism and flash. I know for a fact you've explored a lot of hip hop, so the comments on display here suggest a degree of willful ignorance and hypocrisy. Frankly, I'm tired of this finger-to-the-air bullshit from you.

Sigh.

When did I say all hip hop is like this? One of the prime examples I gave as what I consider to be an artistic song is a rap song. I didn't say all hip hop is disposable.

80's hip hop is full of stories as well. And electronic beats.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Again, Himu, you argument basically boils down to: "Well I don't think it's art, guys! It doesn't have any significant effect on me!" which has no bearing on whether or not something is actually a work of art. I could point to a dog and say I think it actually looks more like a cat, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a dog.

[BlueTsunami]

No, unless it was a statue or a painting of a garbage can. No artistic processes were taken in the creation of that garbage can.
It was mass produced on a production line. A Hannah montana song is a original piece of work.

So Mr. Cheebs is kitsch art?

I googled kitsch art in hopes google image would throw back something good... I was not disappointed

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Himu]

I love how people point to the 80's as hip-hop's high point. Are you fucking kidding me? Ninety percent of hip-hop back then was the same lame braggadocio "hey baby come hop in my car" bullshit that current rap is. It's like making the argument that films were better in the 1950's; people focus on the good of past eras and forget how much mediocre shit surrounded them. In a few decades people will point to the 00's as hip-hop's golden age, because we got shit like "The College Dropout" out of it. They won't remember all the terrible Cash Money mixtapes and Soulja Boy records collecting flies in some huge garbage dump somewhere.

Because I like 80's and 90's beats more.

Also, College Dropout is a classic.

[Himu]

Again, Himu, you argument basically boils down to: "Well I don't think it's art, guys! It doesn't have any significant effect on me!" which has no bearing on whether or not something is actually a work of art. I could point to a dog and say I think it actually looks more like a cat, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a dog.

Strawman.

I could use the same argument for you.

[Phoenix Dark]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Let me play this then. What if the consumer of material, finds meaning in the material even though the material maker did not intend it?

It's art, then - for them at least - but that doesn't make it artistic to me as art is subjective. PD trying to convince us of the "depth" of that verse by Jay Electronica is a great example. My standards are pretty clear cut. Art can, but not always has to elicit emotion. A shovel painted green and tied to a sign can be art if the creator had a message or creative intent. But in many cases it seems as if people are only looking into what they want. That verse from Jay Electronica is just a bunch of random words from various religions, it's not deep. This is the same beef I have with Xenogears and Xenosaga fans.

What I find most hip hop to be is disposable music and even when you get to the good hip hop, it's usually about the same subject.

The difference here is that unlike PD, I am able to separate something I enjoy - in this case, some hip hop - with what I actually value in art. I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed" or "Nice flow." Because it's enjoyable does not mean it has artistic depth or merit. Of course, there's exceptions, and I haven't painted all hip hop to be like this and I could say the same fucking thing about rock.

And unlike what PD seems to think, art does not have to be complicated: the two clips I posted are pretty good examples of artistic music through poetry and they keep it nice and simple. Common raps about his love for a girl that goes awry, the girl being revealed to be hip hop in the last verse, which takes a whole different spin on the entire song. The John Wayne Gay Jr. song is pretty fucking artistic as well: "And in my best behavior, I am really just like him, Look beneath the floorboards, For the secrets I have hid" stick with you. This shit isn't complicated. One song is about love and passion, the other is about the secrets we hide from each other.

Like I said before, hip hop can be artistic just like rock can be artistic. But even from the rappers I like, there's still more flash rather than substance and attempts to rhyme rather than actually trying say something meaningful. And when they do attempt to say something meaningful, like I said on the last page, it's the same shit: black people got fucked by the white man, I used to sell drugs, life sucks. This is why I mostly stick with 80's hip hop which has a more diverse range of subject matter. That, or electronic music.

[close]

You say you don't enjoy rap outside of "banger" type songs, then broadly generalize the genre as nothing more than tales of woe, white men, women, etc. I'm sorry but that's bullshit, and you know it. I could make similar negative generalizations about rock, electronica, pop, and every other genre of music if I based my opinion solely on what is played on the radio. Yet for some reason, that type of close minded argument is only applied to hip hop. A quick glance at Pitchfork's favorite albums of any particular year is a display of albums that gained critical success while being completely overlooked commercially. They pay almost no attention to the equivalent underground/indie/etc scenes in hip hop. And what we get is misinformed gentlemen such as yourself who complain about whatever southern snap song is being blasted by their roommate. fuckouttahere with that

80's hip hop was full of materialism and braggadocio. I know you "know" hip hop, so your statements are completely baffling me right now.

Disposable music exists obviously, but to generally put the label on hip hop is absurd. Some would label punk or pop disposable, and I think that's a good description for much of what I hear on the radio (ring tone songs for instance).

Your generalizations and casual ignorance are astounding. There is more to hip hop than materialism and flash. I know for a fact you've explored a lot of hip hop, so the comments on display here suggest a degree of willful ignorance and hypocrisy. Frankly, I'm tired of this finger-to-the-air bullshit from you.

Sigh.

When did I say all hip hop is like this? One of the prime examples I gave as what I consider to be an artistic song is a rap song. I didn't say all hip hop is disposable.

80's hip hop is full of stories as well. And electronic beats.

You'd made multiple statements suggesting most hip hop revolves around blaming the white man, bragging, etc. Which may be true for mainstream material, but you're broadly painting here.

Again with the championing of 80's hip hop. What the fuck

[youtube=560,345]L4Ux98InKvg[/youtube]
According to you, I'm guessing this is abstract nonsense with no artistic value

[Cheebs]

Whaa? When has shake said what he likes is art and what he doesn't isn't?

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Again, Himu, you argument basically boils down to: "Well I don't think it's art, guys! It doesn't have any significant effect on me!" which has no bearing on whether or not something is actually a work of art. I could point to a dog and say I think it actually looks more like a cat, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a dog.

Strawman.

I could use the same argument for you.

How? When have I said something I like isn't a work of art simply because I don't like it? I even said Avatar was a work of art, and I hated that fucking movie.

[Fresh Prince]

Cheebs answer me!

[Cheebs]

Shake your cat looks like Carla Guigino. I say so thus it is true.


Edit: Answer what?

[Ichirou]

Cheebs wants to fuck your cat, Shake.

This thread is insane, and I'm pretty sure Himu is just trolling all of you.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Cheebs has a weird obsession with my cat.

[Himu]

PD, you need to learn how to read.

1. I have not painted hip hop with a brush.
2. I have pimped artists you keep bringing up.

Are you dyslexic? How are you going to argue that I think Communism is abstract nonsence when I offered up a song from the same album it's from just a page back? Do you have short term memory problems in your rage?

I also like saying I like 80's hip hop more because it always riles people up. Add early 90's to the list as well. Far more diverse time period.

[youtube=560,345]G2bsPoxl4jY[/youtube]



art
subject matter
poetry form

[Himu]

Again, Himu, you argument basically boils down to: "Well I don't think it's art, guys! It doesn't have any significant effect on me!" which has no bearing on whether or not something is actually a work of art. I could point to a dog and say I think it actually looks more like a cat, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a dog.

Strawman.

I could use the same argument for you.

How? When have I said something I like isn't a work of art simply because I don't like it? I even said Avatar was a work of art, and I hated that fucking movie.

Of course Avatar is a work of art. It has meaning and conveys a message. Can't say the same for most Wu Tang tracks.

[Fresh Prince]

Is 'kitsch' art? Considered it is manufactured like a garbage can and as an imitation has no 'artistic processes'?

[The Dark Shake 3000]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]


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[Himu]

I've seen a painting that was painted with cow poop in an art exhibition in one of my art classes.

It was awesome.

It was also art.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I've seen a painting that was painted with cow poop in an art exhibition in one of my art classes.

It was awesome.

It was also art.

Sounds like the painting equivalent of a Hannah Montana song

[Himu]

Himu do you see the happy birthday song as art?

What kind of distinguished mentally-challenged question is this?

You're wishing someone a happy birthday. You're happy for them. It's simple, but in its simplicity it evokes many emotions: It brings people together, it's tied to our memories and it's known globally. That's enough criteria to be considered art in my book.

I've seen a painting that was painted with cow poop in an art exhibition in one of my art classes.

It was awesome.

It was also art.

Sounds like the painting equivalent of a Hannah Montana song

Well, no. This painting had form and also a subject.

[Phoenix Dark]

PD, you need to learn how to read.

1. I have not painted hip hop with a brush.
2. I have pimped artists you keep bringing up.

Are you dyslexic? How are you going to argue that I think Communism is abstract nonsence when I offered up a song from the same album it's from just a page back? Do you have short term memory problems in your rage?

I also like saying I like 80's hip hop more because it always riles people up. Add early 90's to the list as well. Far more diverse time period.

[youtube=560,345]G2bsPoxl4jY[/youtube]



art
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Your words:

But the bulk of hip hop I've listened to isn't really artistic. Despite enjoying it, for example, I couldn't label Life After Death or even 36 Chambers artistic. They feature lyrics that don't really make me think or question well, anything. They have no meaning.

What I find most hip hop to be is disposable music and even when you get to the good hip hop, it's usually about the same subject.

The difference here is that unlike PD, I am able to separate something I enjoy - in this case, some hip hop - with what I actually value in art. I rarely get much value in hip hop beyond "This is a banger" or "Wow that rhymed" or "Nice flow." Because it's enjoyable does not mean it has artistic depth or merit. Of course, there's exceptions, and I haven't painted all hip hop to be like this and I could say the same fucking thing about rock.


Like I said before, hip hop can be artistic just like rock can be artistic. But even from the rappers I like, there's still more flash rather than substance and attempts to rhyme rather than actually trying say something meaningful. And when they do attempt to say something meaningful, like I said on the last page, it's the same shit: black people got fucked by the white man, I used to sell drugs, life sucks. This is why I mostly stick with 80's hip hop which has a more diverse range of subject matter. That, or electronic music.

Explain how those are not broad generalizations.

I know you posted a Common song, I'm asking you about the one I posted. Is Communism art, and if not why not.

You say music must have some emotional value, then champion 80s hip hop because it "riles people up." Yea ok

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Hannah Montana songs typically have form (chorus, verse, chorus, etc.) and subject matter (lolol I'm two girls but really I'm just one )

Also neither are qualifiers for what is and isn't art.