Author Topic: Meme Machine Memorial Thread of Things You Saw on Reddit  (Read 1780785 times)

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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17640 on: November 04, 2010, 02:01:29 AM »
I haven't seen The Wrestler yet

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17641 on: November 04, 2010, 02:23:13 AM »
Canadians don't count
010

Mupepe

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17642 on: November 04, 2010, 10:28:26 AM »
grunge is mostly bad music, Pearl Jam excluded.  Nirvana blows.

Robo

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17643 on: November 04, 2010, 11:23:01 AM »
I've been severely disappointed by the AVclub's series on the grunge era. The writing for it is so full of self-loathing and hatred for their own youth that it taints almost every paragraph. To grow up during an important music period and miss the point of it due to your insecurities is such a fucking waste.

Quote
Nope, it was the fame that killed him, pure and simple; Cobain’s demise had made him a martyr for sensitive, camera-shy artists, and Vedder rushed to pound the nails in.

Quote
Vedder does it in a manly baritone so as not to alienate his core audience, but still—a song like “Daughter” would have never come from a meat-and-potatoes rock band of Pearl Jam’s stature a few years earlier. Along with the similarly folkie “Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town,” Vedder turned feminine character studies into group-friendly sing-alongs for millions of young men who were otherwise blissfully clueless about the female experience.

fucking roll eyes

Daughter could have been Son. Fuck, it's treading in the same ground as Alive.

It’s refreshing to see someone analyze the grunge era without nostalgia-tinted spectacles or outright loathing it for what it has spawned in the last decade. 

But whatever you think of the article, your chosen quotations are pretty piss-poor to use to rail against the AVClub hipsters.  The first is in regard to Vedder’s reaction to Cobain’s death; his (and others) exclusive finger-pointing to the media, it having little to do with the fact that he was a perpetually self-loathing smack addict on the verge of losing his wife.

Quote
“You know, all these people… lining up to say that his death was so fucking inevitable… well, if it was inevitable for him, it’s gonna be inevitable for me, too,” Vedder thundered to writer Allan Jones a month after Cobain’s death under the headline “I’m Not Your Fuckin’ Messiah” in Melody Maker. “See, people like him and me, we can’t be real. It’s a contradiction. We can’t be these people who just write these songs. We have to live up to the expectations of a million people.”

The writer isn’t wrong; Vedder, and others tooting the same horn, set up Cobain as a martyr for serious artists outside the corporate grasp.

The second quote isn’t saying Pearl Jam fell off after “Ten” -- it’s saying, at the time, a band as famous as Pearl Jam, or with a similar jock-rock appeal, could never have gotten away with writing songs as challenging or with the sort of depth and message of Daughter, Elderly Woman Behind the Counter, or yes, Alive.  You’re reading negativity where it doesn’t exist.
 
obo

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17644 on: November 04, 2010, 11:30:15 AM »
any opportunity to rag against my kind  :(
püp

Diunx

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17645 on: November 04, 2010, 11:36:54 AM »
grunge is mostly bad music, Pearl Jam excluded.  Nirvana blows.

Pearl Jam sucks dude.
Drunk

Dickie Dee

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17646 on: November 04, 2010, 11:43:29 AM »
grunge is mostly bad music, Pearl Jam excluded.  Nirvana blows.

Pearl Jam sucks dude.

Your opinion sucks!
___

Mupepe

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17647 on: November 04, 2010, 12:22:50 PM »
grunge is mostly bad music, Pearl Jam excluded.  Nirvana blows.

Pearl Jam sucks dude.

Your opinion sucks!
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:bow Pearl Jam :bow2

I don't think they're super amazing but they're one of the few bands from that era that I can stomach listening to.  Alice in Chains is also pretty damn awesome.  Soundgarden too.  I never got too much into Sonic Youth.  But I don't hate them like I do Nirvana.  I just HATE Nirvana.  I won't say anything about their skill or whatever, but the music just rubs me the wrong way and I can't listen to it for more than a few seconds.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17648 on: November 04, 2010, 12:30:06 PM »
Nine albums in 18 years nicca? I can divide
That's one every - let's say two, two of them shits was due
Six was "NAHHH," the other was "Ten"
That's a one hot album every 18 years not in the shit   bin
010

Mupepe

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17649 on: November 04, 2010, 12:33:12 PM »
I don't know if that was the whitest thing PD has ever posted or the blackest.

Robo

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17650 on: November 04, 2010, 12:46:35 PM »
I didn't really give a shit about Nirvana until I sat down and listened to "MTV Unplugged in New York".  Stripped of the sludgy distortion and manufactured angst it implies, I think it reveals Cobain as a pretty fuckin' solid songwriter.  Few other albums from that specific scene hold up as well, including Nirvana's studio albums.
obo

Stoney Mason

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17651 on: November 04, 2010, 01:06:06 PM »
I'll always say it. Nirvana was one of the few of those grunge bands I could actually tolerate. It was really good pop music at its core which is generally what a lot of really good music is when you break it down.


The influence they had at the time also kicking hair metal especially to the curb was much appreciated.

etiolate

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17652 on: November 04, 2010, 02:50:55 PM »
I've been severely disappointed by the AVclub's series on the grunge era. The writing for it is so full of self-loathing and hatred for their own youth that it taints almost every paragraph. To grow up during an important music period and miss the point of it due to your insecurities is such a fucking waste.

Quote
Nope, it was the fame that killed him, pure and simple; Cobain’s demise had made him a martyr for sensitive, camera-shy artists, and Vedder rushed to pound the nails in.

Quote
Vedder does it in a manly baritone so as not to alienate his core audience, but still—a song like “Daughter” would have never come from a meat-and-potatoes rock band of Pearl Jam’s stature a few years earlier. Along with the similarly folkie “Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town,” Vedder turned feminine character studies into group-friendly sing-alongs for millions of young men who were otherwise blissfully clueless about the female experience.

fucking roll eyes

Daughter could have been Son. Fuck, it's treading in the same ground as Alive.

It’s refreshing to see someone analyze the grunge era without nostalgia-tinted spectacles or outright loathing it for what it has spawned in the last decade. 

But whatever you think of the article, your chosen quotations are pretty piss-poor to use to rail against the AVClub hipsters.  The first is in regard to Vedder’s reaction to Cobain’s death; his (and others) exclusive finger-pointing to the media, it having little to do with the fact that he was a perpetually self-loathing smack addict on the verge of losing his wife.

Quote
“You know, all these people… lining up to say that his death was so fucking inevitable… well, if it was inevitable for him, it’s gonna be inevitable for me, too,” Vedder thundered to writer Allan Jones a month after Cobain’s death under the headline “I’m Not Your Fuckin’ Messiah” in Melody Maker. “See, people like him and me, we can’t be real. It’s a contradiction. We can’t be these people who just write these songs. We have to live up to the expectations of a million people.”

The writer isn’t wrong; Vedder, and others tooting the same horn, set up Cobain as a martyr for serious artists outside the corporate grasp.

The second quote isn’t saying Pearl Jam fell off after “Ten” -- it’s saying, at the time, a band as famous as Pearl Jam, or with a similar jock-rock appeal, could never have gotten away with writing songs as challenging or with the sort of depth and message of Daughter, Elderly Woman Behind the Counter, or yes, Alive.  You’re reading negativity where it doesn’t exist.
 

No, I am reading assumptions by the writer based on his own self-loathing. That statement about Daughter is laughable.

It assumes:

1. The gender of the kid is important enough to make it a character study. Which it is not. It's a character study as much as Alive is, which is to say the song is about the situation more so than being a little girl.
2. That the audience couldn't understand male feminism and their singing along with it was ironic. That's pure self loathing directed upon a generalized past.

And screws up:

3. If you were looking for male feminism in that album, or just Vedder dealing with gender expectations, then you'd be talking about Leash off that same album.


The Cobain messiah thing is about the wording and the placing of Vedder as the one nailing him up. Media outlets were already going that way. Vedder identified with Cobain because he was on the brink of suicide himself. To have Vedder as the one nailing him to the cross is some retroactive hyperbole.

Again, out of touch with his own youth, lost in his self loathing.

tiesto

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17653 on: November 04, 2010, 03:30:16 PM »
Rooster is a better song than almost anything bands like Vampire Weekend can ever pray to make.

Agreed and I wasn't even much of a grunge fan back in the day.
^_^

Robo

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17654 on: November 04, 2010, 03:56:25 PM »
I misread your post re: Daughter, apparently.  Still, I don't think he's trying to say the audience didn't get it --as I recall, Vedder's lyrical content was a fairly popular subject at the time-- rather, that Vedder made it palatable to a lot of folks who wouldn't have heard it anywhere else.
obo

Dickie Dee

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17655 on: November 04, 2010, 04:22:35 PM »
That said, I don't hate, but I'm pretty much a non-fan post Vitalogy.
___

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17656 on: November 04, 2010, 04:23:56 PM »
Pearl Jam  :yuck
püp

bud

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17657 on: November 04, 2010, 04:26:04 PM »
pearl jam lol

i like this one, though
[youtube=560,345]kuq7RYQ8Wa0[/youtube]
 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
zzz

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17658 on: November 04, 2010, 06:31:26 PM »
Genghis probably listened to Emenim in his youth but won't admit to it.

:teehee

pretty sure Cohen was listening to good shit when he was a kid like
[youtube=560,345]
_qkP8SvHvaU[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]GCZrz8siv4Q[/youtube]
010

Stoney Mason

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17659 on: November 04, 2010, 06:36:23 PM »
Outside of a couple of songs I never really "got" Pearl Jam or saw what the big deal was. But then that's what opinions are for.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17660 on: November 04, 2010, 06:50:41 PM »
Ten rocks. Vs has some good songs. That's about it
010

Dickie Dee

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17661 on: November 04, 2010, 07:24:06 PM »
Vitalogy is their best album:
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
___

pilonv1

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17662 on: November 04, 2010, 07:56:56 PM »
Regarding Pearl Jam & the lyric stuff quoted above, one of Australia's favourite sportsmen, cricketer Steve Waugh, used "Better Man" as his song to come out to bat. He only used it for a while until he found out it was about abusive relationships.

It will always hold a special place in my heart, alongside the couples who use Brick as "their song".
itm

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17663 on: November 04, 2010, 08:42:06 PM »
Grunge sucks balls unless it's Alice in Chains. There's a reason why Soundgarden's best song, Black Hole Sun, doesn't sound like grunge.
IYKYK

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17664 on: November 04, 2010, 08:43:17 PM »
Alice in Chains and Soundgarden >>>>>>>>>> Nirvana and Pearl Jam
🍆🍆

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17665 on: November 04, 2010, 09:25:44 PM »
Grunge sucks balls unless it's Alice in Chains. There's a reason why Soundgarden's best song, Black Hole Sun, doesn't sound like grunge.
:lol
010

BlueTsunami

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17666 on: November 04, 2010, 10:06:37 PM »
Alice in Chains and Soundgarden >>>>>>>>>> Nirvana and Pearl Jam

Totally agree with this
:9

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17667 on: November 04, 2010, 10:58:34 PM »
Grunge sucks balls unless it's Alice in Chains. There's a reason why Soundgarden's best song, Black Hole Sun, doesn't sound like grunge.
:lol

:smug
IYKYK

Positive Touch

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17668 on: November 04, 2010, 11:24:03 PM »
sorry guys soundgarden is boring and chris cornell sucks

alice in chains is still cool because of the heroin obsession tho
pcp

etiolate

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17669 on: November 04, 2010, 11:33:43 PM »
Regarding Pearl Jam & the lyric stuff quoted above, one of Australia's favourite sportsmen, cricketer Steve Waugh, used "Better Man" as his song to come out to bat. He only used it for a while until he found out it was about abusive relationships.

It will always hold a special place in my heart, alongside the couples who use Brick as "their song".
:lol

I'd rank PJ's albums: Vitalogy, Ten, VS, No Code, Backspacer and after that it starts to become a wash. Some nice songs here and there amongst the rest of the albums, but I never stuck to them like the top five albums.

OTOH, all those albums sound good live. Pearl Jam in concert is one of the best bands I've seen. Every song is better live. Sometimes the studio versions really throttle the energy.



Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17670 on: November 04, 2010, 11:42:56 PM »
[youtube=560,345]qNf1hRkVnM4[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]s7srvA1V740[/youtube]
:bow
010

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17671 on: November 04, 2010, 11:45:59 PM »
alice in chains knock the shit out of soundgarden
IYKYK

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17672 on: November 04, 2010, 11:53:06 PM »
man fuck the 90s, they were terrible

80s 4 life
püp

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17673 on: November 05, 2010, 12:10:01 AM »
man fuck the 90s, they were terrible

80s 4 life

you're stupid

[youtube=560,345]wrivjzw0RlI[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]oIFLtNYI3Ls[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]tvkK0mO7fXg[/youtube]
IYKYK

GilloD

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17674 on: November 05, 2010, 12:12:23 AM »
wha

ToxicAdam

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17675 on: November 05, 2010, 12:29:55 AM »
[youtube=560,345]NB3NPNM4xgo[/youtube]

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17676 on: November 05, 2010, 12:37:47 AM »
Sorry, early 90s rock has never been a substantial part of my library because of how little I think of the musicianship and how annoying I find most all of the vocalists.  Pablo Honey and The Bends is about the only stuff I care about.

mid/late 80s alt rock >>>>> early/mid 90s alt rock/grunge
püp

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17677 on: November 05, 2010, 12:38:30 AM »
everyone knows 80's > 90's in terms of rock but dude, who cares
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17678 on: November 05, 2010, 12:39:22 AM »
wait i noticed you not only love pablo honey but you would take that over the wealth of 90's rock that is available

ban brand new

IYKYK

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17679 on: November 05, 2010, 12:41:34 AM »
its because of my hipster prerequisite of whoring radiohead.  you didn't get the pamphlet at the convention?
püp

Robo

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17680 on: November 05, 2010, 12:42:27 AM »
I didn't think we were allowed to do that anymore.  It's all about Pavement now!
obo

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17681 on: November 05, 2010, 12:43:16 AM »
Soundgarden's musicianship>Animal Collective
010

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17682 on: November 05, 2010, 12:44:31 AM »
Pavement is infinitely better than Soundgarden  :yuck

ah, we're playing the animal collective card?  sorry that I liked an album two years ago doucher
püp

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17683 on: November 05, 2010, 12:45:14 AM »
you'd take pablo honey over ok computer? radiohead isn't even "hipster". wtf man you're slipping.
IYKYK

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17684 on: November 05, 2010, 12:46:36 AM »
when the fuck did I even sway that?  :lol

Ok Computer isn't early 90s rock you doof.  It's a totally different album from Pablo Honey anyway!
püp

Himu

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17685 on: November 05, 2010, 12:50:57 AM »
Oh, you're talking strictly early 90's?

Who the fuck compared early/mids/late anyways. When comparing decades people compare wholes.
IYKYK

Positive Touch

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17686 on: November 05, 2010, 12:58:00 AM »
Which pretty much gives the 80's an easy victory

only underground 80s was cool
pcp

Phoenix Dark

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010

Himu

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IYKYK

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17689 on: November 05, 2010, 01:05:04 AM »
Which pretty much gives the 80's an easy victory

only underground 80s was cool

but that's like every decade
püp

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17690 on: November 05, 2010, 01:12:37 AM »
Looking at some BET award vids...wow. In 2010 there's no excuse for yelling over vocal tracks at concerts. That shit sounds atrocious. No wonder so many rappers aren't making money: their shit sounds so bad in concert, who would pay for that?

make it sound good jeez
[youtube=560,345]8PfuIm4Onhc[/youtube]
010

Robo

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« Reply #17691 on: November 05, 2010, 01:18:30 AM »
Man, those guys sound like they just stepped out of 1992.  :bow
obo

etiolate

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« Reply #17692 on: November 05, 2010, 04:26:44 AM »
smh hipsters

musicianship is a BS term hair metal bands started using once their shallow formulaic crap got trounced by alternative and grunge

BUT MAN, SURE OUR SONGS ARE ALL THE SAME MAN BUT THE MUSICIANSHIP ITS LIKE ALL THOSE GUYS DO IS WHINE AND ANGST WHY THEY MAD ABOUT THEIR FRIENDS LIVES GETTING FUCKED UP LETS PARTY

god damned kids

brob

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17693 on: November 05, 2010, 07:37:13 AM »
Never really got Alice In Chains. Love me some Soundgarden though. Thayil seemed to drop off the face of the earth after they disbanded. Really liked him. :(

chronovore

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« Reply #17694 on: November 05, 2010, 07:42:01 AM »
While BrandNew was listening to The California Raisins I was listening to Bauhaus. I win!
Murphy's later stuff is worth listening to as well, if you're not already into it. His live album is superb.

Brehvolution

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17695 on: November 05, 2010, 08:56:52 AM »
:bow Pablo Honey :bow2
©ZH

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17696 on: November 05, 2010, 11:27:29 AM »
smh hipsters

musicianship is a BS term hair metal bands started using once their shallow formulaic crap got trounced by alternative and grunge

BUT MAN, SURE OUR SONGS ARE ALL THE SAME MAN BUT THE MUSICIANSHIP ITS LIKE ALL THOSE GUYS DO IS WHINE AND ANGST WHY THEY MAD ABOUT THEIR FRIENDS LIVES GETTING FUCKED UP LETS PARTY

god damned kids

When I say musicianship, I don't mean that I yearn for buttrock and metal guitar riffs.  I mean I get bored by grunge music, sue me.
püp

fistfulofmetal

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17697 on: November 05, 2010, 11:44:15 AM »
grunge and alt rock are the reasons mainstream music is so fucking bad now.
nat


Great Rumbler

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Re: The Outside Link Thread (All Your GAF, OA, SA, YouTube, etc. Links Go In Here!)
« Reply #17699 on: November 05, 2010, 12:33:59 PM »
I don't agree with him, but you certainly can't fault jarosh for so effectively drawing the venomous bile of GAF. Truly a master at work.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 12:36:03 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog