What terrible idea will ruin the new Zelda game?

[magus]

gee who cares,you think the game would improve if they put more thing to smash in the other dungeons or if you had more seesaw to use that spinning riding thing on?

Uh... yeah?

i don't think so,it's the idea that i appreciate not the application

Isn't that the whole point of an idea?

nah i'm of the idea that the seesaw are there so you can go "cool i'm riding on a spinning top!" after the dungeon and subsequently the boss the novelty of the item runs out and there is no reason for the item to appear anymore

let's say that if they made a zelda were you don't keep the item you gain,it wouldn't be a problem for me and maybe we wouldn't even been having this discussion

[Beezy]

let's say that if they made a zelda were you don't keep the item you gain,it wouldn't be a problem for me and maybe we wouldn't even been having this discussion

That's true, but they make you keep it in your inventory as if you're ever gonna use it again. It's stupid. Give us new stuff like the bow & arrow or boomerang that can be useful anywhere, not just in one dungeon.

[magus]

here's the problem... i can't see zelda get progressively more complex because each item you get,is used in such a specific manner that using them is simple

for example all of the zelda games are full of cracked walls,you know that all you need to do is place a bomb near them and they blow up a passage,that doesn't make the game more complex,if you add more seesaw you aren't making the game more complicate,you know you need to use the spin top to traverse them,if there is a windmill near,you know you have to use the boomerang,if there is a hookshot target well... you get the idea

[Yeti]

here's the problem... i can't see zelda get progressively more complex because each item you get,is used in such a specific manner that using them is simple

for example all of the zelda games are full of cracked walls,you know that all you need to do is place a bomb near them and they blow up a passage,that doesn't make the game more complex,if you add more seesaw you aren't making the game more complicate,you know you need to use the spin top to traverse them,if there is a windmill near,you know you have to use the boomerang,if there is a hookshot target well... you get the idea

What they need to do is make it so you need to ride your top to get at a good angle to fire your bow and arrow, or use your boomerang to get your bombs around a corner, things like that.

[MoxManiac]

I'm pretty sure Zelda is doomed to failure at this point.

When they stick to the classic Zelda format nowadays it's boring (see twilight princess) and when they try something new, it ends up being shitty (see the two DS abortions, Spirit Tracks and whatever the other one was called)

In short, new Zelda in 2010, who gives a shit?

[Nintendosbooger]

I'm pretty sure Zelda is doomed to failure at this point.

When they stick to the classic Zelda format nowadays it's boring (see twilight princess) and when they try something new, it ends up being shitty (see the two DS abortions, Spirit Tracks and whatever the other one was called)

In short, new Zelda in 2010, who gives a shit?

Uh, I do? And so do millions of other people. It's coming out regardless of your preference and it will sell tons. Plus, it will be glorious and one of the best games of this generation. You don't like it? Tough. Go fuck yourself.

[Himu]

i don't get what problem you guys have with twilight princess,the wolf bit where you chase insects are annoying but the rest of the game is good and ehy it's actualy the first zelda who bothers putting new items that don't actualy sucks like the iron chain ball

New items that you use once or twice in certain areas and never again...

gee who cares,you think the game would improve if they put more thing to smash in the other dungeons or if you had more seesaw to use that spinning riding thing on? i don't think so,it's the idea that i appreciate not the application

Yes. If every item is useful from beginning to end, you have a better game. This is fact. Majora's Mask has no useless items, unless we're talking about stuff like the postman mask and deku sticks.

I'm pretty sure Zelda is doomed to failure at this point.

When they stick to the classic Zelda format nowadays it's boring (see twilight princess) and when they try something new, it ends up being shitty (see the two DS abortions, Spirit Tracks and whatever the other one was called)

In short, new Zelda in 2010, who gives a shit?

Nintendo should convince me that I shouldn't just replay Majora's Mask and OoT as opposed to buying their new game. 

[Himu]

If it were up to me, the Zelda games would get progressively more and more complex as you gained items, until it reached a point where you had to constantly use every item in your inventory (obviously they'd need a better inventory management system).

MAJORA'S MASK. DON'T LOOK BACK.

[magus]

i don't get what problem you guys have with twilight princess,the wolf bit where you chase insects are annoying but the rest of the game is good and ehy it's actualy the first zelda who bothers putting new items that don't actualy sucks like the iron chain ball

New items that you use once or twice in certain areas and never again...

gee who cares,you think the game would improve if they put more thing to smash in the other dungeons or if you had more seesaw to use that spinning riding thing on? i don't think so,it's the idea that i appreciate not the application

Yes. If every item is useful from beginning to end, you have a better game. This is fact. Majora's Mask has no useless items, unless we're talking about stuff like the postman mask and deku sticks.

I'm pretty sure Zelda is doomed to failure at this point.

When they stick to the classic Zelda format nowadays it's boring (see twilight princess) and when they try something new, it ends up being shitty (see the two DS abortions, Spirit Tracks and whatever the other one was called)

In short, new Zelda in 2010, who gives a shit?

Nintendo should convince me that I shouldn't just replay Majora's Mask and OoT as opposed to buying their new game. 

my memory of majora is pretty vague so i might be wrong but i do remember the first dungeon being all about deku link,the second dungeon being all about the goron mask and the third dungeon being all about the zora mask,these transformation were all pointless until the final dungeon which was just a brief repeat of the old gimmicks used in the other dungeons

it didn't make for a more complex game,you didn't need to transform into a deku unless there was a flower around and you needed to fly around nor you didn't need to transform into a goron if there wasn't any reason to roll around (well i guess playing the conga was cool...)

[TakingBackSunday]

lol at the idea that TPs dungeons aren't good.  Saying OoT's dungeons were better, LOL

stop takin' dem drugs boys

[Himu]

How were the transformations pointless until the final dungeon? You still have to transform into Goron Link and Deku Link and Zora Link in the dungeons before Stone Temple.

What complexity are you EXPECTING? Because your posts don't seem realistic. "You just use Deku Link when you see a shrug nearby, you can't use Deku Link to burrow underground, eat worms and then pop on the other side of the enemy and then butt fuck him with Goron Link! That's not complex!!!"

In MM, the complexity comes from the fact you have to switch from each mask, interchangably, depending on the situation. Your argument seems completely unreasonable, and you are forgetting that in action adventure games with puzzles as hefty as the Zelda series, there's a line between complex and eye gouging.

In other Zelda games, you tend to get a unique item in a dungeon and you use that item the entire dungeon as a gimmick and end up barely using it outside the dungeon depending on the situation.

In Majora's Mask, you tend to get all of your important items OUTSIDE the dungeon, and the game preps you up and forces you to learn this item with pre-dungeon quests, so that by the time you enter that dungeon, you've already mastered that ability and the entire dungeon maximizes the game's features to create one orgy of awesome and then some.

Is it complex? That's debatable. Is it a more enjoyable way of playing a game? Yes, it is.

[Himu]

lol at the idea that TPs dungeons aren't good.  Saying OoT's dungeons were better, LOL

stop takin' dem drugs boys

TP's dungeons are great. But they're full of items you don't use ever again and they're virtually useless. In OoT, a lot of your upgrades are weapons like boomerangs, and slingshots, and iron hammers, and mirror shields. Which are basically weapon/armor upgrades. Some, such as the iron hammer, double as a weapon and a puzzle solver to find new secrets.

In TP, you'll get something like a spike and chain...which is cool, in the ice dungeon. But virtually useless outside the dungeon because, unlike the iron hammer it  has no use outside of combat. Then you've got the spin top, which can ONLY be used along grooves. Shame there's maybe 4 grooves the entire game!

The result is a better realized game, in OoT's case. TP is a great game, but it's a mish mash of great ideas more than anything else.

[Beezy]

Is it complex? That's debatable. Is it a more enjoyable way of playing a game? Yes, it is.

Exactly. Much better than throwaway items that you have to carry around for the rest of the game.

[AdmiralViscen]

The bigger problem with TP's dungeons was the linearity. They were like dozens of mini-dungeons mashed together. There is no time in the game where you have more than one key in your inventory.

[Himu]

So true, Viscen.

[TakingBackSunday]

still the best designed dungeons in the series, losers.

Arbiter's Grounds

Ice Mansion

Temple of Time

CITY IN THE SKY

[Himu]

While TP has great dungeons, the dungeons are so PREDICTABLE in terms of design and layout. Especially if we're comparing them to OoT and MM, where, typically you'll have many branches.

I mean, look at the Water Temple in OoT. Sure, it's a pretty linear dungeon. But it's such a huge dungeon with a central hub that half the challenge is finding where to go next.

I never got that with TP.

MM's dungeons are better designed imo. While dungeons like Arbiter's Grounds in TP are great, they don't come often enough. TP doesn't really start to get fuck awesome, dungeon wise, until halfway through the game. Once you're in Dodongo's Cavern, OoT gets fuck awesome in terms of dungeons. Hell, the first dungeon in OoT butt fucks TP's first dungeon.

And let's not get on final dungeons. TP's final dungeon sucks.

[TakingBackSunday]

Hell, the first dungeon in OoT butt fucks TP's first dungeon.

WTF Himumu, the Deku Tree takes all of TEN MINUTES to beat.  You should've stopped before you started talking about Dodongo's Cavern.  The first three dungeons in TP murder the first three in OoT.  Goron Mines and ESPECIALLY the Water Temple in TP were leagues, leagues better than the Zelda Dungeons For Kids™ that occupied the first half of OoT.

You can certainly make arguments for all the Adult Link temples in OoT, because most if not all of them are fantastic.  But dude, the first three are nearly atrocious.

I hate talking Zelda with people, no one is fucking happy.  All I know is that in the past decade, I've loved the majority of the titles released, Majora and TP most especially.  The DS titles aren't for me, obviously.  I just know that I'll enjoy the shit out of the new one, no matter what the development team decides to do.

[AdmiralViscen]

still the best designed dungeons in the series, losers.

Arbiter's Grounds

Ice Mansion

Temple of Time

CITY IN THE SKY

I still enjoyed them, but I didn't like the path Nintendo was going down. PH and ST are even worse.

iirc the Temple of Time was a 10 minute dungeon too, only it was halfway through the game instead of the first ever 3D Zelda dungeon.

[TakingBackSunday]

wat?

The Temple of Time in TP was just as long as any of the other ones.  Takes me about...an hour and a half?

[magus]

In MM, the complexity comes from the fact you have to switch from each mask, interchangably, depending on the situation.

and uh isn't that what happens with item too? why does it matter if that situation happens once,twice,or a gazillion of times? why is it more enjoyable if it happens more times?

What complexity are you EXPECTING?

NONE! that's the point! none of the situation of zelda are complex,you might switch a good chunk of zelda items into color key and with a good chunk of them you wouldn't make a lick of difference,why it matters if you use the red key once in the red temple or 8 times in the entire game?

In Majora's Mask, you tend to get all of your important items OUTSIDE the dungeon, and the game preps you up and forces you to learn this item with pre-dungeon quests

well as i've said last time i played majora mask was a looooooooooooong looooooooooong time ago but i don't remember any of this,there were mask,you transformed,there was a cool sidequest involving this guy turned into a kid,the second boss was really the most annoying thing ever and you learned a spell that made a statue of link,that's about all i can remember,i can't remember a single one of the dungeon treasure nor i do remember needing anything more than the appropriate mask to clear the next dungeon 

and yea TP dungeons rock,for once the place you visit seems to have some personality where in ocarina they all fall into the "temple of ******" pattern,i think my favorite one are the ice mansion one and the pyramid one

I hate talking Zelda with people, no one is fucking happy.

you want to talk about final fantasy? 

[TakingBackSunday]

I did enjoy that in MM there were hardly any temple items.  Definitely an interesting take on the dungeon formula.

MM is the best 3D Zelda, so that's why that design choice rocks.

[Himu]

Hell, the first dungeon in OoT butt fucks TP's first dungeon.

WTF Himumu, the Deku Tree takes all of TEN MINUTES to beat.  You should've stopped before you started talking about Dodongo's Cavern.  The first three dungeons in TP murder the first three in OoT.  Goron Mines and ESPECIALLY the Water Temple in TP were leagues, leagues better than the Zelda Dungeons For Kids™ that occupied the first half of OoT.

Deku Tree takes 10 minutes to beat when you replay it. First time, however? Bullshit. Dodongo's Cavern is debatable with the Goron Mines in TP, that was a good dungeon, I agree. But I prefer the openness of Dodongo to the linearity of Goron Mines. It also has a giant dinosaur falling into a pit of lava.

Jabu Jabu's Belly is more enjoyable than TP's Water Dungeon as well, at least, when I replayed it and compared. When I first entered the Water Temple in TP, I thought it was going to be side wide open, because the dungeon looked HUGE. Instead, it was a inanely linear, and I don't remember SHIT about it. The one thing I'll compliment TP's Water Dungeon of, is making Iron Boots and item, so I don't have to go to the fucking menu every time I wanna use them.

You can certainly make arguments for all the Adult Link temples in OoT, because most if not all of them are fantastic.  But dude, the first three are nearly atrocious.

Atrocious? LOL

I hate talking Zelda with people, no one is fucking happy.  All I know is that in the past decade, I've loved the majority of the titles released, Majora and TP most especially.  The DS titles aren't for me, obviously.  I just know that I'll enjoy the shit out of the new one, no matter what the development team decides to do.

WHERE DID I SAY I DISLIKED WW OR TP? I HAVE CLEARLY DEFENDED THEM ON HERE AND ON GAF YOU PINK RAT. I LOVE BOTH GAMES ASDL;FJASD;F;SDF

[Himu]

In MM, the complexity comes from the fact you have to switch from each mask, interchangably, depending on the situation.

and uh isn't that what happens with item too? why does it matter if that situation happens once,twice,or a gazillion of times? why is it more enjoyable if it happens more times?

Because I'm a gamer. I like exploration. I want puzzles from Zelda. I want side shit. I want hearts. I want loot. I want more, more, more. When I get a cool ability in a game, I wanna use that fucker. When I wanna use that thingamajiggy but CAN'T (example: spin top! Useless unless there are grooves!) when the game TOTALLY just teased me, that pisses me off.

and yea TP dungeons rock,for once the place you visit seems to have some personality where in ocarina they all fall into the "temple of ******" pattern,i think my favorite one are the ice mansion one and the pyramid one

I agree. I loved how TP had different places. You went to the sky, you went into a fucking mummy tomb, you helped a sasquatch at his ice mansion! But I still think OoT could be just as inventive: a forest dungeon overrun by four ghosts; a fire dungeon where rock people are eaten by a giant dragon, a temple that's ran by two cheeseburger twins, the stomach of a giant fish.

[TakingBackSunday]

You think the TP Water Temple is linear because you're so used to playing Zelda dungeons.  Go back and play that dungeon, you can go four or so different ways in the beginning of the temple and get stuck.  But as a seasoned Zelda player, you just know what the fuck is up nearly from the beginning.  Don't worry I'm the same way.

And yes, Deku Tree was always buttfuck easy.  I remember even as a kid I was saying stuff like "that's it?"  The Forest Temple in TP was long, and once you saved I think four of the monkeys, you were free to do whatever the fuck you wanted to collect the rest. Dodongo's Cavern made up for the Deku Tree, but neither of the first three dungeons have aged well at all.  The rest, though, are still fantastic.

[Beezy]

I've never been disappointed with a non-DS Zelda either. I just don't think TP is the best of the 3D ones or better than OoT.

[Himu]

Let's get this straight. I like every console Zelda.

Even Zelda II.

I prefer some games (OoT, MM) over others (the original is low on my list, if not the lowest) but I still love each and every one.

Suck on that, BrandNew!

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm not saying you don't!  You're one of the good ones!  I just think you're beefs with TP's dungeons are odd, tis all.

[Himu]

You think the TP Water Temple is linear because you're so used to playing Zelda dungeons.  Go back and play that dungeon, you can go four or so different ways in the beginning of the temple and get stuck.  But as a seasoned Zelda player, you just know what the fuck is up nearly from the beginning.  Don't worry I'm the same way.

And yes, Deku Tree was always buttfuck easy.  I remember even as a kid I was saying stuff like "that's it?"  The Forest Temple in TP was long, and once you saved I think four of the monkeys, you were free to do whatever the fuck you wanted to collect the rest. Dodongo's Cavern made up for the Deku Tree, but neither of the first three dungeons have aged well at all.  The rest, though, are still fantastic.

The first time I played OoT (I still wasn't used to 3d action games or the 3d perspective yet) I was stuck for the longest.

You know that drop where you fall into the web and bust it using your weight?

Yeah. I had to ask a friend for help there. I was like,"Wait. If you actually jump on that web from a great height, it'll actually bust?" because in 2d games, that shit wouldn't fly. If you saw something, it was there to be used. But in that first 3d Zelda dungeon ever, I thought that web was just there for the background.

[Himu]

I'm not saying you don't!  You're one of the good ones!  I just think you're beefs with TP's dungeons are odd, tis all.

My beefs don't really stem from the linearity so much. Because like you said, when you're a seasoned player, you get used to it. But the item thing really bugged me. I think it's because I realized I was tired of the old formula and that the "get item in dungeon, use item the entire dungeon" shtick started to expose itself more to me and the more  I played the game, the more and more it got apparent.

If it's any consoliation, when I first played it. I truly felt that, up to the second half of the game, the game was better than OoT. I even liked the wolf sections, you can look up my posts from when the game came out. I also really liked how story-centric the first half was. It wasn't going from one temple to the next to get three emblems or something equally generic for Zelda, it was something different. The second half ruined that for me, story-wise. I know, I know. LAWL ZELDA AND STORY LOL but it was refreshing for me, the first half. I liked having an actual REASON to go to these dungeons, and not just get a medallion.

[Oblivion]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to side with BN, here Himu. The first 3 dungeons in TP are quite a bit better than the ones in OoT. The adult dungeons  of course, match up nicely with the others.

[Mr. Gundam]

TP was a fun game; I just feel like it was a huge fanservice wank job gift to all the forum dwellers begging for something "dark and mature."

Even though it had that horrible fetch quest, Wind Waker is still my favorite of the 3D Zelda titles.

[Bebpo]

I just liked the part where you were riding the top spinner against the giant skeleton dino

good times