Conan's career is over, Leno returns to his rightful throne as King of Late Nite

[TakingBackSunday]

So apparently Conan will be done after next week, is walking, and NBC pays him a large severance check AND Conan has the ability to be seen on another network.  Good news for Coco!

I don't care if he gets whipped on Fox, I just want to see him back doing his thing somewhere

[Raban]

So apparently Conan will be done after next week, is walking, and NBC pays him a large severance check AND Conan has the ability to be seen on another network.  Good news for Coco!

I don't care if he gets whipped on Fox, I just want to see him back doing his thing somewhere

I'm siding with the folks who want him to be a showrunner. I love Conan's personality, but he can't deliver written material well, he needs to do his own thing.

[TakingBackSunday]

That sucks for his fans who want to continue seeing him do a very public show, though.  Some people like me grew up watching him, and to have him suddenly fade into the back workings of television just doesn't seem right.  Besides, this is what he loves doing most.

[Raban]

That sucks for his fans who want to continue seeing him do a very public show, though.  Some people like me grew up watching him, and to have him suddenly fade into the back workings of television just doesn't seem right.  Besides, this is what he loves doing most.

OK BN, I get it. You fucking grew up watching Conan O'Brien. We understand. But talk shows are outdated shit. They're irrelevant now.

I'd rather Conan head something like a TV series version of the Late Shift, where he writes and stars in it. If he is going to Fox though, they'd just air five episodes and cancel it.

[etiolate]

I'm interested in what happens to Leno's ratings. Is his audience sheltered enough to go along with Leno back on the Tonight Show, as though it's with a clean slate? Leno will no doubt try to act that way, but will this backlash spread out to those who have highly selective mental receptors? The guests on his show are going to be have to be very safe guests.

[ManaByte]

He could go back to the Simpsons.

[TakingBackSunday]

Fuck the Simpsons, the show has sucked longer that it was ever good.

OK BN, I get it. You fucking grew up watching Conan O'Brien. We understand. But talk shows are outdated shit. They're irrelevant now.

They're irrelevant to you, maybe, but they're still a cornerstone in television programming for most the networks (not to mention the success of the two on Comedy Central).  Stop trying to act like an internet contrarian and think about it: this is what Conan loves doing.  It's what his fans are accustomed to seeing him doing.  He knows that several networks are very interested to have him, especially now after all of this.  Hey, like I said, I'll follow whatever he does, but there would be a pretty bow on a gift wrapped in dogshit if he just ends up doing his show somewhere else, that's all.

[ManaByte]

Coco is responsible for the best episodes of all 20 years of that show.

M O N O R A I L

[CajoleJuice]

Seriously.

Treehouse of Horror IV
Marge vs. the Monorail
New Kid on the Block
Homer Goes to College

Fucking flawless.

[Gruco]

Batman was a scientist.

[CajoleJuice]

Won't be needing THIS



If I had any skillz, I would insert Leno's and Conan's heads in this.

[Raban]

Fuck the Simpsons, the show has sucked longer that it was ever good.

OK BN, I get it. You fucking grew up watching Conan O'Brien. We understand. But talk shows are outdated shit. They're irrelevant now.

They're irrelevant to you, maybe, but they're still a cornerstone in television programming for most the networks (not to mention the success of the two on Comedy Central).  Stop trying to act like an internet contrarian and think about it: this is what Conan loves doing.  It's what his fans are accustomed to seeing him doing.  He knows that several networks are very interested to have him, especially now after all of this.  Hey, like I said, I'll follow whatever he does, but there would be a pretty bow on a gift wrapped in dogshit if he just ends up doing his show somewhere else, that's all.

I know it's what he loves to do, but he set out to achieve a very specific dream: host the Tonight Show. He did, and it ended up being fucking terrible. Not the quality of the show, but his experience was obviously horrible. Everything he tried to do bombed. If I achieved my dream only to watch it crumble under me immediately after, I'd try something new, I wouldn't stick with talk shows.

I wasn't trying to attack you, but you're taking this entire thing way too personally, even for a long-time fan. In the end, nobody gives a shit about the viewers/consumers/brokes, and the rich folks are gonna do whatever the fuck they wanna do. I respect Conan, but he's not a for-the-fans guy by any definition.

[TakingBackSunday]

Not everything he tried to do bombed, he didn't even have a fucking chance to begin with.

Whatever.  Obviously a ton of people give a shit about this, even though it's not the people in power.  We'll see what happens.

[Moran]

While Conan did write those episodes of the Simpsons, him going back to what the show is now would be one of the worst things he could do imo.

It would be great if Conan took his team and worked on some HBO show with someone like Gervais or Norm but that would probably never happen, the talkshow format only holds him back. This coming from a long time fan

[CajoleJuice]

Oh, Conan obviously shouldn't go back to the Simpsons; I just felt like posting his awesome work.

[etiolate]

Don't think the talk show format holds him back. You can expand/break the format if you want. What holds him back often is shitty guests. One of the things that hurt his move to the Tonight Show was putting on Tonight Show guests. Those being boring, self absorbed Hollywood types. Conan fans don't want to hear Ryan Seacrest tell life changing stories of losing weight and growing up to be a shallow douchebag.

[TakingBackSunday]

I want more bread professors.

[ManaByte]

It'll be awesome if on his final show Conan has Bobcat Goldthwait on and instead of setting fire to the couch he burns down the entire set.

[Raban]

It'll be awesome if on his final show Conan has Bobcat Goldthwait on and instead of setting fire to the couch he burns down the entire set.

That would be pretty kickass.

[etiolate]

Andy's plea tonight was AWESOME.

[Eel O'Brian]

  Obviously a ton of people give a shit about this

"Too bad they weren't viewers!" :lenowned

[GilloD]

IDEA: Conan talk show on HBO.

[The Fake Shemp]

Why? Why would you want to go to HBO where you'd have even less of an audience than the minuscule one you'd find on regular cable? Has HBO even done a daily late night show in recent memory?

If you had The Tonight Show, setting up shop on the fringes of cable doesn't sound like the best career move.

[Eel O'Brian]

stern said he should have just taken the 12:05 slot, all the pressure's off, he could do whatever he wanted and still retain the tonight show name, etc.

i'm inclined to agree

no one will be talking about conan o'brien six months from now, and in a few years people will barely remember him - but hey, at least he has his pride, go coco

[The Fake Shemp]

Eh, that's pretty short sighted. His ratings would have never recovered in that slot, which is the biggest issue, and Fallon would have gotten royally dicked as well. Plus Conan is apparently sentimental about the brand, which was even on display last night, and I think the concept of another show going in front of The Tonight Show was appalling to him. Essentially, you have demoted The Tonight Show at that point, which is something he couldn't deal with.

I pretty much agree that this ends his career, though. He can't recover from this.

[cool breeze]

yeah, I think he should have taken the 12:05 slot.

One think I was never clear of was, if Leno returned to 11:35, would that be the Tonight Show? Or what about a situation where the Tonight Show started at 11:35 and Jay Leno's show began at 12:05? Maybe they stick too close to the format of monologue, segment, guest, guest, comedian / musician.

Why? Why would you want to go to HBO where you'd have even less of an audience than the minuscule one you'd find on regular cable? Has HBO even done a daily late night show in recent memory?

If you had The Tonight Show, setting up shop on the fringes of cable doesn't sound like the best career move.

at least he would have more time and less restrictions to do skits

[Dickie Dee]

Ok, so let me understand all of this.

-Leno promises Conan his time slot after 5 years.
-Conan gets it, moves to LA with his family.
-The show is a miserable failure.
-NBC moves Leno back to his original time slot.

What am I missing here?

The move is because of Leno's ratings @ 10, not Conan's @11:30

[The Fake Shemp]

Leno decides a year from the succession plan that he still wants to do late night, NBC gives him 10 PM, his lead-in for newscast affiliates is so bad that they threaten to pull the plug themselves, NBC wants to put Leno back to 11:35 where Conan was struggling with Letterman in the ratings (it was by no means a failure), Conan says NO, Leno says sure!

[Himu]

Conan's show isn't a miserable failure, it was Leno's.

[The Fake Shemp]

The other issue is money. Leno's contract had a penalty fee of $80 million if NBC cancelled The Jay Leno Show, and it specifically stipulated a time slot. Conan's contract stipulates no time slot, so NBC could technically drag him to court for breach of contract. At worse, Conan's penalty was like $40 million.

In the end, they're going to pay Conan $10 to $20 million to go away, which is a lot less than paying Leno $80 million.

[Himu]

Why did they opt to put Leno on an 80 million for an untested format? Which is to say, late night in primetime? NBC can't be that stupid.

[Saint Cornelius]

Yeah, to be fair, Kimmel is rarely this funny. He can be incredibly sharp, but I feel like he's Randy Moss - he only plays when he feels like it.

Win Ben Stein's Money?

[Eel O'Brian]

yeah, stern's well-known for his short-sidedness when it comes to smart business moves and generating ratings  

fine, off to obscurity with coco then



"The night of the show, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps."

[Dickie Dee]

The other issue is money. Leno's contract had a penalty fee of $80 million if NBC cancelled The Jay Leno Show, and it specifically stipulated a time slot. Conan's contract stipulates no time slot, so NBC could technically drag him to court for breach of contract. At worse, Conan's penalty was like $40 million.

In the end, they're going to pay Conan $10 to $20 million to go away, which is a lot less than paying Leno $80 million.

IIRC, Conan's contract allowed NBC to push TTS up to 12:05, mostly to accomodate sports and special events, but they used this wiggle room to force a permanent change to the timeslot without being in breach of contract.

[The Fake Shemp]

There are other reports that say there is no time slot and that NBC is free to air the program at 3 AM if they wanted to (poor Carson Daly!). Either way, I don't think the time slot was ever something written in stone, and that bit Conan in the ass. Hollywood is a business of ego, and nothing ruffles feathers more than telling someone, "No!" and then dragging their name through the mud (Zucker).

[ManaByte]

Willco is right. Conan had no time slot mentioned in his contract. Leno DID. So with Leno they had to make a new deal to get him back on at 11:35 because his contract said 10:00. Conan didn't have anything like that.

[Himu]

Since Conan didn't have anything like that in his contract and Jay did, do you think they made it so this would happen from the beginning?

[The Fake Shemp]

No, not really. Leno just realized that what he was doing was experimental, and protected himself financially just in case. Conan's contract, as written, guaranteed that he was the host of The Tonight Show, where it has sat at 11:35 for a billion years. I don't think he felt the need to add language to stipulate that NBC couldn't move it to 3 AM.

But 'dems the breaks! Welcome to Hollywood!

[Himu]

WHY DID NBC OPT TO LOSE 80 MILLION IF THEY HAD TO CANCEL LENO'S SHOW WHEN IT WAS EXPERIMENTAL TO BEGIN WITH

It makes no sense!

[The Fake Shemp]

Because NBC thought that even with low ratings, and rightfully so, they'd still turn a profit. And they did. But their affiliates were getting slaughtered, and nobody predicted the 40% to 50% drops the affiliates were suffering. I believe the industry thinking was that - at worst - NBC would trim The Jay Leno Show down to a like a day a week.

Leno, as all smart entertainers should, protected himself financially in case he got the axe. So did Conan (he has a $40 million penalty fee or something like that), but unlike Leno, he didn't have the foresight to stipulate a time slot. That's why we are here.

[ferrarimanf355]

http://gawker.com/5448803/did-nbc-remove-conans-tonight-show-craigslist-ad-update

[The Fake Shemp]

And if you are asking me to make sense of all the programming decisions, then I can't do that for you. NBC has been poorly run for awhile, and I think that's been evident by a lot of their programming decisions and executive hiring (Ben Silverman, anybody?).

[Dickie Dee]

Because NBC thought that even with low ratings, and rightfully so, they'd still turn a profit.

I think they had initially said that a 1.5 rating was the modest number Leno needed to remain profitable, though in recent weeks he regularly dipped quite a bit below that. But yeah, it was the affiliate revolt that did him in.

[AdmiralViscen]

Why did they opt to put Leno on an 80 million for an untested format? Which is to say, late night in primetime? NBC can't be that stupid.

For real

[ferrarimanf355]

And if you are asking me to make sense of all the programming decisions, then I can't do that for you. NBC has been poorly run for awhile, and I think that's been evident by a lot of their programming decisions and executive hiring (Ben Silverman, anybody?).

NBC is last place for a reason, bro.

[Human Snorenado]

And if you are asking me to make sense of all the programming decisions, then I can't do that for you. NBC has been poorly run for awhile, and I think that's been evident by a lot of their programming decisions and executive hiring (Ben Silverman, anybody?).

NBC is last place for a reason, bro.

 :lenowned

[bud]

i hardly watch these shows but from what i've seen i'd go with conan > letterman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leno

if it was jon stewart in leno's position, i think he would've owned kimmel right there.

[Cravis]

Leno is simply not funny. It was sad to watch his monologue. Leno would make a joke and his guitarist would laugh like it was the funniest thing he had ever heard. Meanwhile you could tell the audience members' laughs were uneasy and forced.

[Saint Cornelius]

NBC is last place for a reason, bro.

certainly not because of Community or Parks & Recreation.

[The Fake Shemp]

Word is that a deal is pretty much done, and that Leno is coming back and Conan is being released out into the wild to never again reach such talk show heights.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

That's a shame.

[TakingBackSunday]

BrandNew has committed suicide

[Flannel Boy]

That's a shame.

[Bocsius]

"I am disappointed," O'Brien said. "I feel like a guy who has bought a car from somebody, painted it, fixed it up and made it look nice and then the guy comes back and says he promised to sell the car to his brother-in-law." Go Elsewhere? 'Of Course'

O'Brien said he would "obviously leave NBC immediately" if the network decided to give the "Tonight" show to Leno. He said he would absolutely refuse to do a show in the 12:35 A.M. spot now occupied by Jimmy Fallon's show, "Late Night," and would indeed consider creating the same problem for NBC that Leno's departure would cause.

"Would I go to Fox if they asked me?" O'Brien said. "Of course. I'm not going to do some little happy hour from Omaha at 12:35."

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Actual story:

"I am disappointed," Mr. Leno said. "I feel like a guy who has bought a car from somebody, painted it, fixed it up and made it look nice and then the guy comes back and says he promised to sell the car to his brother-in-law." Go Elsewhere? 'Of Course'

Mr. Leno said he would "obviously leave NBC immediately" if the network decided to give the "Tonight" show to Mr. Letterman. He said he would absolutely refuse to do a show in the 12:30 A.M. spot now occupied by Mr. Letterman's show, "Late Night," and would indeed consider creating the same problem for NBC that Mr. Letterman's proposed deal with CBS caused.

"Would I go to CBS if they asked me?" Mr. Leno said. "Of course. I'm not going to do some little happy hour from Omaha at 12:30."

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/23/arts/jay-leno-criticizes-nbc-on-tonight-cliffhanger.html?pagewanted=1?src=tptw

[close]

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Time to be an overrated internet cynic:

1) Leno is smarter than Conan.  He knew how to get the spot back and he did.

2) All of these newfound Conan fans should have watched his fucking show instead of watching Colbert or the occasional funny Conan clip on Youtube.  Maybe the next time someone you like has a show, maybe, you should, I don't know, watch it?

3) Conan will find some work for a couple of years and drop off the map.  The average internet user has a 3-6 month memory at the most and all of this anti-Leno outrage will subside and then disappear.  The twitter generation at work here.  Half of the people fuming over Conan will barely have an idea who he is within a few years.

4) Jay is hoping you forget too and he is right.  He'll be fine.  Are there any people worked up over him usurping Letterman's spot?  Probably nobody after 1996 gave a fuck save for a small handful of celebrities but there are plenty out there that will be on his show to pimp their new movie they are starring in.  He'll have some ground to regain but he's done it before and will do it again.  Again, Leno's viewers aren't butthurt internet warriors; it's middle age people and up.  They'll be tuning in.  Whether you do or not is irrelevant because you barely watched The Tonight Show when Conan was hosting it.

5) I'm not a fan of Leno but Kimmel's Leno impression is the only thing I found funny in this.  That and the digs at Carson Daly.  Good stuff.

[etiolate]

That's an amazing amount of bullshit T EXP.  People aren't just going to forget. People remember the original Leno/Letterman split. It doesn't impact the Leno fanbase, but it does the rest of the audience.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

That's an amazing amount of bullshit T EXP.  People aren't just going to forget. People remember the original Leno/Letterman split. It doesn't impact the Leno fanbase, but it does the rest of the audience.

They remember the Leno/Letterman split but do they care?  The ratings certainly don't reflect that once Leno got his footing.

[etiolate]

Leno had to become the dumbest piece of television he could to "get his footing". People cared enough that Leno had to give up on winning the audience and go after the lowest common denominator.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Leno had to become the dumbest piece of television he could to "get his footing". People cared enough that Leno had to give up on winning the audience and go after the lowest common denominator.

All of the other late night shows are high brow?

Leno isn't funny but he obviously found his niche.  In fact, most the Late Night guys suck unless there are gold mine moments like this.  Which are pretty rare.  Letterman is only funny if there is some vapid celebrity he's interviewing.  Kimmel is only funny when he can be an outright dick to someone.  These don't happen that often.  Laughing at dumb headlines isn't much worse in comparison.

I think people are overrating the other late night hosts at the expense of Leno.  Leno isn't funny but rarely is anyone else.

[Barry Egan]

Time to be an overrated internet cynic:

1) Leno is smarter than Conan.  He knew how to get the spot back and he did.

lol.   I don't think being conniving necessarily proves Jay's superior intellect.  How about the fact that Conan graduated magna cum laude in English and History from Harvard, and  Jay went to Emerson graduating in "speech therapy"?  That seems to be a more substantial metric for who's the brighter bulb.