Game

[Borys]

`

[archie4208]

(with 10M copies sold at $60 that gives $600M profit )

You do realize you're not factoring marketing and ignoring the fact that the publisher doesn't get the full $60 from the game, right?

[maxy]

CoD6: MW2 budget: $50M
(with 10M copies sold at $60 that gives $600M revenue, probably $500M profit Shocked Shocked Shocked)

That is just developing budget,with marketing it is said to be somewhere around $200 million.It even says that in one of the links.

[Sho Nuff]

There is NO WAY the GT5 budget is only $60M by now.

[The Fake Shemp]

I think its less then that, 15 bucks fee for the platform holder, 15 for retail, taxes, rest is for the publisher

Retail makes (on average) $5, sometimes less, off a game.

[Crushed]

congratulations borys, your stunning grasp on arithmetic guarantees you a professional business and marketing major

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Hmmm...that doesn't seem right.  Going multiplatform is additive, not multiplicative.  The article is missing something here, or being deliberately obtuse about something.

pretty much, multiplat is usually a small increase on the programming side and a moderate increase on the QA side. your design/art/music/animation budgets remain a constant

[treythemovie]

Here is the actual information from M2research that wasn't linked in the article for some stupid reason: http://www.m2research.com/the-brief-2009-ups-and-downs.htm

Prior console generations had development costs ranging between $3-5 million per platform. M2 Research estimates more recent development costs for these 7th generation consoles to have soared, with the average costs running $10 million for one platform and $18-$28 million for multiple platforms.

The average is including the Wii, which is what is messing up the numbers so much. Not only are the majority of Wii games on a single platform and exclusive but those that are multiplatform essentially require the publisher to make an entirely separate game anyway. So it likely is lowering the single platform average while inflating the multiplatform average.

[treythemovie]

Yeah trey I said that in the first post.

I know, I was just elaborating via the link.

[chronovore]

Hmmm...that doesn't seem right.  Going multiplatform is additive, not multiplicative.  The article is missing something here, or being deliberately obtuse about something.

pretty much, multiplat is usually a small increase on the programming side and a moderate increase on the QA side. your design/art/music/animation budgets remain a constant

The Wii counting for a good portion of the "diminished" single platform budgets is likely, as mentioned by Slime. Another aspect is multiplatform titles are probably going to be bigger, license driven or big IP titles where it makes sense to cover as large an audience as possible. I also wonder if they count full-multiplatform titles, which may have PSP/DS/PS2 SKUs which require an entirely different engine, pipeline, etc. -- however, since this is data from Krome, it's likely they're counting those as single-platform instances...?

[Nintendosbooger]

Wow, great direction this HD generation is going. Let's keep making big profile Hollywood budget games even if it means laying off 11 thousand employees every year!

I'm glad I'm not contributing to this sort of backwards, self-destructive path.

[brawndolicious]

They actually plan not to make a profit or maybe to just break even on most new titles.  They do this so that eventually they can get a popular, new IP.  Some people are saying that instead of having a huge team trying to make every new concept work, that they should make small teams (4-5 people) work on them for a while and let them decide to go on with developing the game or just cancel it before too much money was invested.

I'm glad I'm not contributing to this sort of backwards, self-destructive path.

What does that mean, that you pirate games or...?

[Nintendosbooger]

I'm glad I'm not contributing to this sort of backwards, self-destructive path.

praise be that all Nintendo fans are on a pixel/polygon diet and helping to save the gaming ecosystem.

now future generations will be able to play GC quality games for many more decades.

Nintendo must be thrilled that they no longer need to compete in order to keep their fans happy! Wii 2 to be the Wii but in a slightly bigger box and at $249 launch price tag you can be sure you are Lowpoly-environment friendly.

Joke about it all you want, but at the end of my gaming sessions, I can sleep better knowing that I'm not possessed by a frothing demand for HD blockbuster gaming which has served to warp this industry and caused the firing of 11000 people in one year.

YEARS ago, Nintendo themselves talked about the unhealthy direction of the industry, but publishers nevertheless insist on following the Hollywood model. When this bitch crashes a second time, they'll be looking to the Big N to bail them out (again).

[brawndolicious]

well actually maybe game budgets could use a bit of erectile dysfunction.  Or at least some different pricing structures.

When every game has to start being sold at the same price, you see publishers trying to make that one safe, successful game that sells to 10% of the install base rather a bunch of games that sell to 1%.  This is why we get so many shooting and racing games of course.

Probably the best solution is to keep going full steam ahead on the graphics whoreness but to have the big-budget guaranteed successes like GTA, COD, Halo, etc being sold for up to $100 and the new innovative games being sold for a fraction of that, but still making a profit because they have more ghetto Wii-level graphics.  Even though consumers apparently like the Wii, I'm not sure if they could adopt such a change.

[chronovore]

What's strange is that I'm reticent to fire up my PS2 because I know it'll be an eyesore to play last-gen graphic games, but after 15-20 minutes of play I completely don't notice it anymore.

[Nintendosbooger]

I still play legacy systems on a CRT - albeit a really frigging awesome one.

Joke about it all you want, but at the end of my gaming sessions, I can sleep better knowing that I'm not possessed by a frothing demand for HD blockbuster gaming which has served to warp this industry and caused the firing of 11000 people in one year.

YEARS ago, Nintendo themselves talked about the unhealthy direction of the industry, but publishers nevertheless insist on following the Hollywood model. When this bitch crashes a second time, they'll be looking to the Big N to bail them out (again).

Nintendo have captured a whole new demographic - it's time to stop acting like they are part of the real "video games industry" (which continues to thrive despite all these prophecies of doom from Nintendoids) and let them have 100% of the "Soccer mom and geriatric , ex gamer , or people-who-wished-they'd-got-a-next-gen-machine-with-real-games amalgum" demographic who don't really understand modern gaming.

They are part of the purest sector of gaming, one into which the representatives of the "real video game industry" are desperately trying to penetrate. Besides, considering Nintendo is the company that practically laid the groundwork for modern day games today, I'm sure their uncanny foresight regarding the condition and future of the industry carry more weight than the juvenile rhetoric of Hollywood gamers like yourself and the other HD fuckwits on this forum.

My only surprise is that the loss of those 11500 employees hasn't been blamed on the Wii yet! Looking forward to this year's job firings report.

[tiesto]

What's strange is that I'm reticent to fire up my PS2 because I know it'll be an eyesore to play last-gen graphic games, but after 15-20 minutes of play I completely don't notice it anymore.

I dunno if it's weird or not, but I have been switching between Dragon Quest VII (which is a hideous 3D PS1 game, with jaggy graphics that looked worse than its predecessor) and Uncharted 2 (arguably the best looking console game out right now). It's pretty cool that I can (mostly) ignore graphics, since I have such a huge backlog of games from past gens to go through.

[Nintendosbooger]

They are part of the purest sector of gaming, one into which the representatives of the "real video game industry" are desperately trying to penetrate.

Sega : Not bothering with Wii, concentrating on X360/PS3
Capcom : Not bothering with Wii, concentrating on X360/PS3
Ubisoft : Not bothering with Wii, concentrating on X360/PS3
EA : Not bothering with Wii, concentrating on X360/PS3
etc etc...

yup, desperately trying alright!

future of the industry carry more weight than the juvenile rhetoric of Hollywood gamers like yourself and the other HD fuckwits on this forum.

"Hollywood gamers" looooool.

Does that make Wii gamers Bollywood gamers?
All substandard shit, dancing and flailing, same crap over and over again, looks like it's 10-20 years out of date, but BOY does it sell to the fanbase?

Yes, yes i think it does.

Wiisters are Bollywood gamers.

I was referring to Sony and MS, you dumb son of a bitch. Natal and Sony's "wand" are their attempts to snatch a portion of the lucrative casual audience. Nothing wrong with that, since copying the Big N has historically been traditional practice among competing console manufacturers.

Since you were kind enough to list all those irrelevant third party companies, however, I'd like to direct your attention to this thread: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30285.0

Guess something had to give with all the emphasis on expensive, next-gen HD games, eh? I ask you, Hollywood gaming whoreson, where is your god now?

[brawndolicious]

MS/Sony are actually trying to just get the gimmicky waggle-off games onto their systems though.

The real benefit to MS/Sony is that third party publishers will be happier to make games for their system if they can throw out a bunch of games with relatively cheap, basic production values and some gimmick that soccer moms love, because those games have a high profit/investment ratio.  Then they can use their suburbans devils' moneys to fund the big risky, innovative IP's that require a huge talent and money investment.  It just makes their console a safer bet for the publishers.

All in all, I don't see how you could say that motion control improved the industry.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Guess something had to give with all the emphasis on expensive, next-gen HD games, eh? I ask you, Hollywood gaming whoreson, where is your god now?

new tag get

[pilonv1]

@ the reasoning behind jaggies.

[maxy]

Jaggies are mitigated by sitting further from the monitor, as was the case for family TV watching since the mid-1900s.  "Regular" people see content before seeing image quality.  Making a judgement on image quality was usually a nerd thing or a sales/marketing thing.

OMG,unsolved problem in computer graphics for the past 30 years has finally been solved,he should be nominated for Nobel prize.
 

[drew]

 

[Bildi]

Wii/XBLA/PSN?

[chronovore]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1066623p1.html

Grinder now multiplatform. Wii loses biggest 3rd party title of 2010.

Can you imagine the wasteland of online co-op FPS for Wii? You'd never get hardcore gamers to go through the trouble of FINDING and then PLUGGING IN their Wii just to play a co-op FPS with friend codes and all that. Oh, the horror.

[TripleA]

I'm glad I'm not contributing to this sort of backwards, self-destructive path.

praise be that all Nintendo fans are on a pixel/polygon diet and helping to save the gaming ecosystem.

now future generations will be able to play GC quality games for many more decades.

Nintendo must be thrilled that they no longer need to compete in order to keep their fans happy! Wii 2 to be the Wii but in a slightly bigger box and at $249 launch price tag you can be sure you are Lowpoly-environment friendly.

Joke about it all you want, but at the end of my gaming sessions, I can sleep better knowing that I'm not possessed by a frothing demand for HD blockbuster gaming which has served to warp this industry and caused the firing of 11000 people in one year.

YEARS ago, Nintendo themselves talked about the unhealthy direction of the industry, but publishers nevertheless insist on following the Hollywood model. When this bitch crashes a second time, they'll be looking to the Big N to bail them out (again).

Yup I completely remember that, I mentioned it in the "is gaming losing creativity" thread.

People laugh at Nintendo, but at the end of the day Nintendo has the last laugh.

[TripleA]

Even friend codes are looked down upon internally at Nintendo.

If friend codes were shorter I don't think they'd be an issue for anyone.

Typing in, say, "4552" would be easier and quicker than "xXxMetalGearSniperxXx".

[EmCeeGrammar]

Even friend codes are looked down upon internally at Nintendo.

If friend codes were shorter I don't think they'd be an issue for anyone.

Typing in, say, "4552" would be easier and quicker than "xXxMetalGearSniperxXx".

The problem is that Nintendo could have made it so that one code per system would sync between any of the same games two connected people had.  They stuck with the ds implementation for whatever reason.  I have no problem with just one code.  I would think of it like a phone number.  Separate codes for separate games is just a clusterfuck.

[TripleA]

Even friend codes are looked down upon internally at Nintendo.

If friend codes were shorter I don't think they'd be an issue for anyone.

Typing in, say, "4552" would be easier and quicker than "xXxMetalGearSniperxXx".

The problem is that Nintendo could have made it so that one code per system would sync between any of the same games two connected people had.  They stuck with the ds implementation for whatever reason.  I have no problem with just one code.  I would think of it like a phone number.  Separate codes for separate games is just a clusterfuck.

True but tbh Nintendo never cared for online in their consoles (Remember Yamauchis comments last gen?.

I'm not defending friend codes, I definitely think they need improvement.

[TripleA]

Separate codes for separate games is just a clusterfuck.

yeah, this.

having to input everyones codes AGAIN to play with them for each game is a pain in the arse.

And Trip, okay, putting in a number is as easy as putting in xXxMetalGearSniperxXx, but in Hollywood we do that once and never have to do it again.

People laugh at Nintendo, but at the end of the day Nintendo has the last laugh.

I was at a number of Iwata's speeches pre-Wii launch. Hell i was at the Wii reveal and he gave a similar speech. I don't think anyone was laughing at what "Nintendo" were saying and people were excited to see what they had in store. The Wii reveal was a bit of a "huh?!" moment for a lot, but i think the real back lash has came with the general direction the Wii (well, for the Hollywood gamer mind set i guess)

True, the backlash for the lack of hardcore titles does exist. But the question is; Are Nintendo hurting from their decision to focus on the casual market?

Again I'm not defending friend codes, I think there's a lot of room for improvement with them.

[bork]

My experience with friend codes is limited to Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom UAS, but my problem is more about how the online is structured-- there is no way to message friends/rivals, no way to block bad players, no way to accept/reject a match before it begins, and if you want to play with someone on your friends list, you both have to go into the friend match menu and select each other.  And I've heard this is one of the better Wii online titles.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

[Bebpo]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

720p + online integration at least up to PSN level + M+ from the start = this hollywood gamer would have been happy with nintendo hardware.

[pilonv1]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

I don't see how this would solve any issues the Hollywood Gamers have. The main issue is content for me.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I think the 360 gets a little too much credit in that regard.  2d stuff?  Nice.  Geometry Wars and such look really good.  When you start getting into higher demanding games you either find-
 
High Resolution and graphical showcase games with poor performance issues i.e. Gears of War
Games that run great but do so in sub hd resolutions i.e. Call of Duty 4

So its often a balancing act that I witness with 360 software.  I haven't had too much exposure to ps3 but I hear all it gets is shoddy 360 ports anyways and some faux 1080p games.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

I don't see how this would solve any issues the Hollywood Gamers have. The main issue is content for me.

I disagree with this.  My perception is that the archaic online integration and lack of graphical horsepower is precisely why so many overlook the content on Nintendo platforms.  That's fine by me. We all have our standards.  But to deny the content is there is.. uh... it makes me all defensive for my toys. :'

[AdmiralViscen]

Gears of War does not perform poorly.

Nintendo should make some fucking games, that's the problem. No one complains about Mario Galaxy being low res.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Gears of War does not perform poorly.

Nintendo should make some fucking games, that's the problem. No one complains about Mario Galaxy being low res.

Has frame rate drops all over the place. Especially with smoke grenades in multiplayer.  Some texture loading problems.  I've never seen the sequel in action, so they may have addressed that. 

[AdmiralViscen]

It has the UE 3.0 pop in problems, that's it. UE 3.5 games don't have that at all.

[Bildi]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

I don't see how this would solve any issues the Hollywood Gamers have. The main issue is content for me.

I think better graphics and online would have helped the Wii get all those good 360/PS3 multiplatform games.  So content might have been a lot better.

[pilonv1]

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

I don't see how this would solve any issues the Hollywood Gamers have. The main issue is content for me.

I think better graphics and online would have helped the Wii get all those good 360/PS3 multiplatform games.  So content might have been a lot better.

Better graphics doesn't automatically come with a HD output.

And right now if you just added HD + better online to a Wii it's still not an exciting proposition for me.

I'm curious if the hollywood gamers would like a wii with hd output and a non distinguished mentally-challenged online experience.  Oh and m+ in the wiimotes.

I don't see how this would solve any issues the Hollywood Gamers have. The main issue is content for me.

I disagree with this.  My perception is that the archaic online integration and lack of graphical horsepower is precisely why so many overlook the content on Nintendo platforms.  That's fine by me. We all have our standards.  But to deny the content is there is.. uh... it makes me all defensive for my toys. :'

xfe says it best above. the sort of games I want to play aren't on Wii (and are rarely on 360/PS3 these days) so it's not of interest to me.

[Bildi]

Better graphics doesn't automatically come with a HD output.

And right now if you just added HD + better online to a Wii it's still not an exciting proposition for me.

Yeah, by better graphics I mean the same as the other consoles - as in if the Wii had the same capabilites as the other consoles from the start, plus waggle, they probably would have got plenty of ports like the Cube did.

Ultimately, if the Wii were my only console I'd neck myself, but I'm glad it exists if only for bringing what I think are some great innovations (the pointer mainly).

[The Fake Shemp]

How will an on-rails shooter work with the 360/PS3 controller?

[The Fake Shemp]

I never played Rez. I can only imagine it sucks.

[brawndolicious]

How will an on-rails shooter work with the 360/PS3 controller?

It probably wouldn't.  And since they're HD consoles, you'd have to set up a sensor bar anyways.  That's way too much trouble for a arcade game.

[Bildi]

I never played Rez. I can only imagine it sucks.

You should try the demo, and then delete it.

[Raban]

I never played Rez. I can only imagine it sucks.

Ban yourself.

[Damian79]

$60 - $15 for Sony/ MS - $5 for retail - $?? for marketing = $30 at least.

10 000 000 x $30 = $300M.

Still a golden business.

Where teh hell did you get that?

Its $10 retail and atleast $5 for freight.  They made like $10 off the $50 model but i dunno if anythign has changed for the $60 model.

[Cormacaroni]

I never played Rez. I can only imagine it sucks.

[Damian79]

Actually reatilers might get even more than that:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/723896.html

[The Fake Shemp]

I can tell you from firsthand experience, managing at two specialty retailers that sell videogames, that wholesale on new titles is never less than $50 - and usually more. It's the reason why GameStop and their ilk rely so heavily on reserves; the cost of purchasing games is so high that the company cannot afford to buy excess inventory (especially in this economy).

That link is for computer game software too.

[Damian79]

I see.  Is that $50 on a $60 game?  You guys have to pay for freight right?

[T-Short]

If friend codes were shorter I don't think they'd be an issue for anyone.

Typing in, say, "4552" would be easier and quicker than "xXxMetalGearSniperxXx".

So only 10000 users online? Sounds about right