Activision fired a ton of people today.

[archie4208]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27213/Layoffs_Hit_Activision_Studios_Radical_Luxoflux_Neversoft_Affected.php

http://kotaku.com/5469858/activision-takes-axe-to-guitar-heros-neversoft-shuts-down-luxoflux

http://kotaku.com/5470149/activision-shutters-guitar-hero-creators-gh-van-halen-developers

In one day Activision laid off 90 people at radical, axed 50 jobs at Neversoft and closed Luxoflux, Red Octane and Underground Development.  At least Bobby Kotick still has his $14 million in bonuses!

[Human Snorenado]

Can they fire Tony Hawk?

[duckman2000]

That's a lot of people, damn. I thought Red Octane was part of the golden trinity?

[archie4208]

That's a lot of people, damn. I thought Red Octane was part of the golden trinity?

That leg of Activision's chair has rotted away.  The other two (Blizzard and Call of Duty) are still propping it up, though!

[The Fake Shemp]

Plastic musical instrument fad started to die out when the economy hit the shitter, and people couldn't afford to buy a new Guitar Hero bundle for $130 every five months.

[pilonv1]

wait closed red octane?

i guess willco is right, they've probably saturated the market with plastic instruments so software is all they need.

[Raban]

2011 is Call of Duty: MMOFPS year.

New Blizzard IP = World of Duty

[Bebpo]

You'd think now would be a perfect time to start a new game company that could shake things up.  From all the firings over the last 2 years there are literally hundreds of talented game people out there looking for jobs and bringing the best of them together for a project could really take off.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, a bad economy is the perfect time for unemployed programmers and artists to pool their resources (or complete lack thereof) to start a company and spend unspecified millions of dollars on an original IP. A completely new game, which unless partnered with a publisher with deep pockets, will likely suffer from a lack of marketing and industry-wide piracy.

[archie4208]

Yeah, a bad economy is the perfect time for unemployed programmers and artists to pool their resources (or complete lack thereof) to start a company and spend unspecified millions of dollars on an original IP. A completely new game, which unless partnered with a publisher with deep pockets, will likely suffer from a lack of marketing and industry-wide piracy.

Time to churn out some Facebook games!

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, if you goal is to make Facebook and XBLA games, you could always do that out of your garage.

[archie4208]

I thought XBLA games were pretty labor intensive and expensive (comparatively to the past) now and days.  I remember reading an old article somewhere that Microsoft wanted XBLA to become a sort of 'premium' DD service with the indie games channel taking up the 'small and experimental' banner.

[The Fake Shemp]

Development is not as expensive as it is difficult to get your game on XBLA.

[GoofyGoober]

I guess Bobby has to do something to protect his bonus for 2010. A new lean mean plastic instrument machine.

[Madrun Badrun]

Yeah, a bad economy is the perfect time for unemployed programmers and artists to pool their resources (or complete lack thereof) to start a company and spend unspecified millions of dollars on an original IP. A completely new game, which unless partnered with a publisher with deep pockets, will likely suffer from a lack of marketing and industry-wide piracy.

Except it will be like three years before it comes out, so it could have a better chance than it would have now.

[AdmiralViscen]

Yeah, if you goal is to make Facebook and XBLA games, you could always do that out of your garage.

Assuming you get someone to buy you a house

[The Fake Shemp]

Just borrow one of Bobby Kotick's

[M3wThr33]

wait closed red octane?

i guess willco is right, they've probably saturated the market with plastic instruments so software is all they need.

Actually, it's just that Red Octane sucks shit. My friend at Robomodo talked about how useless they were. Robomodo did all the design and production of the Ride controller themselves. (Which they shouldn't have needed to, rather spend resources making the game, but whatever...)
I still want the new Band Hero drums for the PS3, but they're Wii-only in the USA because they made TOO FUCKING MANY of the old ones. I think Red Octanes biggest problem was getting greedy and making way too much shit.
(When GH3 launched, it cost less than $10 to make one of the GH3 guitars. Nearly pure profit)

[Stoney Mason]

I ask myself, "Brian, why do you want to get into the games industry?" to which I reply, "Because I want to be part of creating rich and immersive experiences." and then I read tons of people are getting fired and studios are closing down so I'm really starting to wonder if I should even bother. I might as well become an accountant.

The game industry is no different than the film industry, or the book industry, or any other industry. The name of the job is selling games and pleasing the largest number of people. If you aren't doing that, there is a large chance you will end up out of a job. It's not a pure artistic medium like people outside of it seem to think for some reason.

There is a place for so called "art house" games but just like anything if you want to make those you make the necessary compromises that one has to when you do that.

[Raban]

Video game industry 

Yeah dude, fuck the industry. Go independent. Less money, more integrity.

[archie4208]

Neversoft is confirmed closing after GH6 is done. :'(

[pilonv1]

fucking hell

[AdmiralViscen]

That's really fucked up.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Sucks everyone is losing their jobs, not just at activision.  But I feel this may work out once the industry goes through a correctional transition.  If the future is cheaper games with accessible pick up and play concepts, well, I'll be a happy camper.  I know that doesn't gel with "hollywood gamers", but I think publishers thinking it was appropriate to move towards 60 dollar games and all the dlc shenanigans have ruined a lot of potential growth.  I hate the ipod line for gaming, but you can't argue with the numbers. 

[duckman2000]

I'm a little surprised that Neversoft has remained open this long.

[ToxicAdam]

Yeah, a bad economy is the perfect time for unemployed programmers and artists to pool their resources (or complete lack thereof) to start a company and spend unspecified millions of dollars on an original IP. A completely new game, which unless partnered with a publisher with deep pockets, will likely suffer from a lack of marketing and industry-wide piracy.

Ehh .. worked for Torchlight.

These people could pool their talents together (in whatever genre it was) and create a knockoff game and sell it on XBL/PSN/PC. Have to start somewhere.

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't think Torchlight cost millions to develop. Like I said, if you want to make Facebook and XBLA (and Steam) games, you could always do that. But where's the fun?

[ToxicAdam]

The fun would be to create something for cheap and make a profit and taking ownership of your product? Seems like the American dream to me.

[Stoney Mason]

Very talented guys who did Torchlight. They have a good pedigree of development.

The problem is most of the people who have those pie in the sky dreams of creating the next big thing aren't that talented, don't have the resources to make the games they dream of, and end up losing their shirts.

For every one of those Torchlight guys ten others (more really) fail miserably. It's tough.

[Bocsius]

I can't think of a single Activision game in my collection, spanning back over the past 14 years since I got back into gaming with the Nintendo 64.

I feel sorry for the people affected, certainly. To be out of work in this economy is more than a mere inconvenience.

[Flannel Boy]

I know that doesn't gel with "hollywood gamers", but I think publishers thinking it was appropriate to move towards 60 dollar games and all the dlc shenanigans have ruined a lot of potential growth.

I don't see why $60 is such a high figure when brand new NES games, if inflation is taken into account, were more expensive.

but you can't argue with the numbers.  

Number don't lie!

[pilonv1]

Seems like Activision is of the belief that their brands are what sells, and that anyone can develop them. Time will tell, and I think short term they're probably right.

[Stoney Mason]

Seems like Activision is of the belief that their brands are what sells, and that anyone can develop them. Time will tell, and I think short term they're probably right.

They have some mega franchises and those mega franchises are popular, well reviewed, and sell well. When/If that changes so will their bottom line like with any company.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I know that doesn't gel with "hollywood gamers", but I think publishers thinking it was appropriate to move towards 60 dollar games and all the dlc shenanigans have ruined a lot of potential growth.

I don't see why $60 is such a high figure when brand new NES games, if inflation is taken into account, were more expensive.

but you can't argue with the numbers.  

Number don't lie!

Yes games were more expensive back then. It was a good thing when we switched over to cd roms and they could be sold for cheaper.  I'm arguing that we need to get down to a lower price threshold.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

if I lost my job I would open a bakery

gaming industry

[Joe Molotov]

Yet another company that clearly didn't support the Wii hard enough.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Yet another company that clearly didn't support the Wii hard enough.

Vicarious Visions is taking over the guitar hero franchise now.  They mainly did the wii ports. :/

[ToxicAdam]

if I lost my job I would open a bakery

gaming industry

You'd just end up making Nintendo-themed cupcakes because it was the only thing that sold. That's the irony of life.

[Stoney Mason]

I understand that the games industry isn't untouchable but hearing about all these layoffs and studio closures makes me a nervous dude because Ive put all my eggs into the "I'm going to develop games!'" basket. Looking at it from a gamer standpoint, I'm worried that companies are going to shift to pushing  a hell of a lot more casual shovelware games and less of the top-tier games, which I enjoy.

I still want my Dead Spaces and Mirror Edges but I wouldn't mind seeing more casual titles as long as they were of a high quality but they probably wont be.

On a personal level it all depends on where you work. Most people work for devs rather than publishers. Work for a dev whom you believe in and does quality work and you'll be fine.

As far as worrying about the direction of the industry and stuff like that, I can guarantee from a job perspective you have a lot more things to concern yourself with. The industry will be fine.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I still want my Dead Spaces and Mirror Edges

I have to wonder how companies are going to compromise the technically ambitious games with realistic sales figures.  IMO, selling hundreds of thousands of any game is good. But apparently its not enough. Restraining these kinds of products to digital distribution channels initially and then following on any success found there would be my best guess.

[Kestastrophe]

The fun would be to create something for cheap and make a profit and taking ownership of your product? Seems like the American dream to me.

Yes. It seems like this kind of thing is really thriving on PC. You mentioned Torchlight, which is a great example (despite their prestigious pedigree). I think that AI War was pretty successful last year as well, and that was made by only one guy.

[chronovore]

Seems like Activision is of the belief that their brands are what sells, and that anyone can develop them. Time will tell, and I think short term they're probably right.

But the short term view is not what works for managing brands. Fads, yes; brands, no.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

There was no way that the Guitar Hero thing was sustainable.  I think Activision did the right thing and milked the fuck out of it while the gettin's good.  Which is unfortunate because you knew that meant that there would be some inevitable layoffs of the people that designed the numerous GH entries.

[archie4208]

There is a difference between a natural decline and dropping like a rock, though.  Activision's spam certainly accelerated the genre's death.  GH3 sold ~10 million copies and two years later GH5 can barely break 1 million.

[chronovore]

There is a difference between a natural decline and dropping like a rock, though.  Activision's spam certainly accelerated the genre's death.  GH3 sold ~10 million copies and two years later GH5 can barely break 1 million.

That's one of the scary things about developing a big franchise. You can bust ass, put 5 times the effort into a game, get better scores than ever, and it comes out and sells 1/5th the previous title's numbers.

[The Fake Shemp]

Or, you can be like Activision, and oversaturate the market with overpriced, redundant accessories and marked up expansion packs.

[originalz]

I dunno though, the music game scene in Japan has been around since the 90s and is still pretty consistent.  The releases are much more spread out, and genre decay still really hasn't take effect despite only minor improvements made with each new installment.

[The Fake Shemp]

I dunno though, the music game scene in Japan has been around since the 90s and is still pretty consistent.  The releases are much more spread out, and genre decay still really hasn't take effect despite only minor improvements made with each new installment.

So basically what you're saying is that they don't oversaturate the market with redundant, overpriced accessories and expansion packs sequels?

[EmCeeGrammar]

I dunno though, the music game scene in Japan has been around since the 90s and is still pretty consistent.  The releases are much more spread out, and genre decay still really hasn't take effect despite only minor improvements made with each new installment.

I frequent the media-create threads on gaf and sales are pretty modest for music games in japan.  Maybe a few hundred thousand at best.  But thats like, taiko drum master.  Come to think of it, I don't recall any major releases in the music genre in japan.  Like a beatmania here, a ddr there, nothing earth shattering.

[AdmiralViscen]

Also Japan has been buying exactly the same shit in every single genre for a decade.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's silly! Uh, there's Dragon Quest Pokemon Final Fantasy Soul Calibur Mario Tales Beatmania Street Fighter... does Wii Sports count?

[originalz]

I dunno though, the music game scene in Japan has been around since the 90s and is still pretty consistent.  The releases are much more spread out, and genre decay still really hasn't take effect despite only minor improvements made with each new installment.

I frequent the media-create threads on gaf and sales are pretty modest for music games in japan.  Maybe a few hundred thousand at best.  But thats like, taiko drum master.  Come to think of it, I don't recall any major releases in the music genre in japan.  Like a beatmania here, a ddr there, nothing earth shattering.

The scene is still arcade games here.  The home ports still do pretty well for what they are, but focus has and always will be in the arcades.  Maybe that also has something to do with the games not becoming stale?  Either way, they're always high up in the Arcadia popularity rankings.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I forgot about arcades.  America has such a pitiful arcade scene that its easy to forget. 

[EmCeeGrammar]

Also Japan has been buying exactly the same shit in every single genre for a decade.

Not true, there are quite a few successful upstarts that frequent the ds.  Its a very healthy platform in Japan.  Level 5 in particular has successfully launched two new ips this gen which have sold well over a million copies.

[demi]

And in turn has churned out 5 now? within the last few years. Proving Viscens point

[AdmiralViscen]

Yea, Layton 1, 2, and 3 really obliterate me

edit: beaten

[EmCeeGrammar]

I was also referring to the inazuma eleven series.

edit: hmm if we establish a threshold sales break, I'll waste my time and compile some of the new ip that has successfully taken off on the ds.

[AdmiralViscen]

no deal

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'll take that as a win.
*emceegramr gets silly internet vindication to prop up his pitiful self esteem

[originalz]

GIRLS MODE