Game

[Borys]

`

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

For a while now, I imagined that a FF7 remake will come but it will be on the next generation of handhelds.

[Jansen]

square-enix sucks so much shit nowadays.

[maxy]

Square is just horribly inefficient,they cant spend years on something and then have some cg as a result.FF need a serious reboot,new fresh people that are not afraid of taking Western RPG ideas and management with clear goals.

If they did FF7 remake now they would have 20 sec CG to show after a year.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?

[Third]

I can wait.

[WrikaWrek]

Speaks volumes of its fanbase when they keep buying games they don't want in the hopes that a remake of a game they have already played, happens.

[Stoney Mason]

FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.

[Himu]

Why does the FF7 remake have to have FF13 level graphics, then? Do it REmake style.

[Himu]

Doesn't even have to be top of the line graphics, either.

Exactly. And that seems to be one obstacle for it being made. It shows what the developer's priorities are these days.

[Himu]

FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.

I agree. It'd be nice to have because FF7 has some translation issues and could use some actual gameplay depth, but to pine for it beyond insane.

[Stoney Mason]

If we go down that line let's remake everything possible then.  

FF7 existed as a game. It had flaws like any other game. It's time to move on. One of the problems with Square Enix imo is that essentially they are becoming a nostalgia company that puts out a new game only every 3 or 4 years and then contents itself with retreading out "remixed" versions of the old stuff. Let's move forward. It's 2010 already. Stop serving the audience that wants to keep reliving their childhood and serve the new audience that currently exists. 

Just my 2 cents. Of course I barely play JRPGs anymore so I'm not the base they are representing anymore but that's my outsider opinion.

[Himu]

I love how that one square guy said that you cant tell a good story in a wrpg because of all the freedom.

He said you it's HARD (not impossible, which the word "can't" implies) tell a good story in an open world game.

Prove him wrong.

If you cite Oblivion or Morrowind or even Fallout 3 as examples your argument is automatically revoked and devoid and stupid.

[Great Rumbler]

Speaks volumes of its fanbase when they keep buying games they don't want in the hopes that a remake of a game they have already played, happens.

And this is why Square will NEVER remake FF7.

[Himu]

Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?

I'd like to see: no more teenboppers, real choices ingame

He said you it's HARD (not impossible, which the word "can't" implies) tell a good story in an open world game.

Prove him wrong.

If you cite Oblivion or Morrowind or even Fallout 3 as examples your argument is automatically revoked and devoid and stupid.

Mass Effect 2? Its not really open world, but you do have freedom and can make choices, which you could call ROLEPLAYING.

And yes if you want a ROLEPLAYING GAME you cant tell a 100% predefined story BECAUSE YOURE ROLEPLAYING, which in JRPGS you are not (and FF13 in specific).

Mass Effect 2 is not open world, so your argument is void. Anyways, ME2 doesn't have "compelling storytelling" either. Not that FF games have them, but his point still stands.

Also fuck this "ROLEPLAYING" crap. Giving me two decisions (typically black and white good vs evil) vs one decision isn't roleplaying.

[Himu]

Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?

I'd like to see: no more teenboppers, real choices ingame

What real choices?

Kill this guard?

Y/N

Kiss this character and make out with them?

Y/N

Most of your choices in ME1 didn't really matter much in ME2. They were superficial at best. So much for "real" choices.

[Stoney Mason]

I'm not a believer in the concept that JRPG's need to become WRPG's. That makes very little sense to me and feasibly is impossible. What I do believe is that JRPG's have to have stories that are relevant to western audiences if they want them to sell in big numbers to western audiences. They have to progress their storytelling techniques and themes if they want to sell bigger numbers here. A little cross genre pollination would help also. Fallout 3 and Mass Effect took their RPG roots and combined them with the most popular genre on the HD market. Shooters. That's how you make something relevant for the masses.

[Himu]

I'm not a believer in the concept that JRPG's need to become WRPG's. That makes very little sense to me and feasibly is impossible. What I do believe is that JRPG's have to have stories that are relevant to western audiences if they want them to sell in big numbers to western audiences. They have to progress their storytelling techniques and themes if they want to sell bigger numbers here.

Completely agreed.

Jrpgs are about the combat/stat side of rpgs. wrpgs are about the side that allows "choice" and making your own story.

They have their own uses and expertise but one area jrpgs could really use a boost is the storytelling department. The gameplay has evolved in a lot of diversive ways, but the stories (unless I'm playing a SMT game) aren't really much of an evolution. But that could be said about almost all genres, as well.

[Himu]

You're weaboo roots are showing Himuro. Two choices are more then none and thus more roleplaying. Also you dont need cinematics every 10 sec to tell a story, Fallout 3 tells a better story then most Final Fantasies and that without much narrative.

I have weeaboo roots because I tell the truth? I didn't say you have cutscenes to tell a story, either. Fallout 3's story, or rather its plot, is pretty non-existent. It is constantly a search for your father. It's full of lore, and history, and various characters, but the result is a disjointed experience which is common for open world games. It doesn't have very good use of storytelling.

Shadow of the Colossus barely has any cutscenes at all and it has good storytelling. Portal has no cutcenes except the ending and its storytelling is great.

I'm not even arguing Fallout 3 doesn't have better storytelling than the typical FF game. But that doesn't make its storytelling good either.

[Himu]

Fallout 3's storytelling isn't great; nor is it's story.

It's pretty good considering it comes from the guys what made The Elder Scrolls.

Totally, and they have the source material to thank for that.

[Stoney Mason]

Let's be honest here. Most WRPG's have shit stories. And to be honest it's because they don't focus on that. They focus on giving you a wealth of options so it almost becomes a create your story experience but the core story is generally not some emotional, great thing. Fallout 3 is a great game but its not because of the "story". It's because you are in this open world and you create your own moment to moment experiences. There are some execpetions. I think Mass Effect has a good over arching story but its still not the strength of the genre yet.

In theory that should be the strength of the JRPG. When I played JRPG's that is generally why I played them. The problem there is that the characters and storytelling stuff they have been using for so long that was once fine has become rote, cliched, and tiresome. It simply doesn't appeal to most western gamers. But the linear aspect of them isn't necessarily the problem. A good linear story is fine. That is the way most game stories in fact work.

[Bebpo]

Well all storytelling in games is shit if youre being honest. By book standards that is.

Its just that Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Witcher are considerably better then another loli anime jrpg.

wtffffff


Also every FF thread sucks

[Himu]

Let's be honest here. Most WRPG's have shit stories. And to be honest it's because they don't focus on that. They focus on giving you a wealth of options so it almost becomes a create your story experience but the core story is generally not some emotional, great thing. Fallout 3 is a great game but its not because of the "story". It's because you are in this open world and you create your own moment to moment experiences. There are some execpetions. I think Mass Effect has a good over arching story but its still not the strength of the genre yet.

In theory that should be the strength of the JRPG. When I played JRPG's that is generally why I played them. The problem there is that the characters and storytelling stuff they have been using for so long that was once fine has become rote, cliched, and tiresome. It simply doesn't appeal to most western gamers. But the linear aspect of them isn't necessarily the problem. A good linear story is fine. That is the way most game stories in fact work.

Aside from Final Fantasy though, jrpgs aren't really story centric. I've always attributed wrpgs to being story centric (and gameplay = story type philosophy) while jrpgs were heavily gameplay based. Though the blockbuster jrpgs like Final Fantay and Kingdom Hearts try to melt players hearts and cry and shit, those are in fact, the exception.

That's how I've looked at it for years.

[Himu]

Well all storytelling in games is shit if youre being honest. By book standards that is.

Its just that Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Witcher are considerably better then another loli anime jrpg.

I played the first ten minutes of the witcher and turned it off because of the combat. It was really that bad.

It seems that wrpgs concentrate on the story so much that other areas (particularly the gameplay) suffers as a result. Or something. I get the same thing with games like Drakensang and Risen and their respective demos. At least, when it comes to 3d wrpgs. I can get into 2d wrpg gameplay, but 3d wrpg gameplay often makes me want to barf. Like, Vampires: Bloodlines has great dialgue and writing, and then has one of the most boring ass combat systems I've ever played.

Guess that's my "weeaboo roots" showing through. I've always been more interested in mechanics and gameplay than trite "stories".

This is partly why I liked DA:O so much: the combat.

[Stoney Mason]

Aside from Final Fantasy though, jrpgs aren't really story centric. I've always attributed wrpgs to being story centric (and gameplay = story type philosophy) while jrpgs were heavily gameplay based. Though the blockbuster jrpgs like Final Fantay and Kingdom Hearts try to melt players hearts and cry and shit, those are in fact, the exception.

That's how I've looked at it for years.

WRPG to me are quest based. They are about doing tons of random irrevelant missions to stat boost. There are always execptions of course. But the storytelling in WRPGs has historically generally been awful. Not to mention their storytelling technique were simply walls of text coupled with awful character animation and poor presentation. You can get away with that in WRPG's because the strengths are placed in different areas. As they have moved to consoles they have tried to improve on that because they are trying to expand beyond the niche they occupied.

[Himu]

I agree about that irrelevant quest note. The only wprgs who's quests (if we're going to classify them as wrpgs) don't really bother me are Diablo-like games. Because they don't attempt to hide the fact you're doing irrelevant quests just to stat boost as opposed to offering "choice". They're just straight-forward and clearly about stats, look, and customization.

[Stoney Mason]

Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.

[Great Rumbler]

Planescape: Torment

[BlueTsunami]

Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2

If I was giving out plaudits Bioware in general would be a company that was worthy of them. From old school, to Kotor, to Dragon Age, to Mass Effect, they are a western company that actually wants to move story telling forward within their genre. Not that every RPG has to play like a Bioware RPG or have their specific focus, or not that they don't ever has misses (I'm looking at you Jade Empire) but there is a reason they have the position they have and that WRPG's have made a resurgence in recent years.

[Stoney Mason]

Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.

The flip side of this of course is that being dumped into a relatively empty and boring world without much motivation or backstory also isn't preferable to me which is a problem I had with Betheda games up until Fallout 3 or Risen which I recently dropped. When people attack WRPG's for being bland and lifeless this is the experience they are talking about.

I have no real dog in this fight. I can like a WRPG as much as a JRPG. The problem imo is simpy they haven't been making enough good JRPG's recently especially on the HD consoles.

To pull from another genre, Uncharted 2 seems to be very popular with a lot of people even though its a completely linear experience from both the story and gameplay perspective. I know its a different genre but my point is more that people often focus too much on linear versus open world rather than good or bad. Both are viable options. You just have to execute properly which ever path you take.

[Himu]

Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.

Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2

BG2 is an exception and my favorite wrpg.

Also, Planescape despite having great storytelling has gameplay issues BECAUSE of its storytelling. It's not the type of game I play because it's fun.

[Himu]

Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.

Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2

You mean the game I have mentioned multiple times on this forum?

[Himu]

Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.

The flip side of this of course is that being dumped into a relatively empty and boring world without much motivation or backstory also isn't preferable to me which is a problem I had with Betheda games up until Fallout 3 or Risen which I recently dropped. When people attack WRPG's for being bland and lifeless this is the experience they are talking about.

I have no real dog in this fight. I can like a WRPG as much as a JRPG. The problem imo is simpy they haven't been making enough good JRPG's recently especially on the HD consoles.

To pull from another genre, Uncharted 2 seems to be very popular with a lot of people even though its a completely linear experience from both the story and gameplay perspective. I know its a different genre but my point is more that people often focus too much on linear versus open world rather than good or bad. Both are viable options. You just have to execute properly which ever path you take.

I dunno. The only wrpgs this gen I'd hail as being legitimately great are Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3. On the other hand, I also liken Vaklyria Chronicles and Demon's Souls as great.

There's a lot of trashy and boring jrpgs just like there's a lot of trashy and boring wrpgs.

[Stoney Mason]

I dunno. The only wrpgs this gen I'd hail as being legitimately great are Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3. On the other hand, I also liken Vaklyria Chronicles and Demon's Souls as great.

There's a lot of trashy and boring jrpgs just like there's a lot of trashy and boring wrpgs.

I'm speaking as far as solely where my taste lie and in a general sense what Western gamers are playing.

Oblivion, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1 & 2, (You can probably put the Fable series in there as well) have all been popular well received, well reviewed, and good selling games. When people talk about "RPG's" this gen, this is what normal people think of. They aren't thinking about JRPG's. This is more what I'm talking about. Why one genre is on the rise and the other genre isn't in this country. Not sort of my personal evaluative take, although even if I was doing that JRPG's this gen wouldn't do so well in comparison.

[Himu]

Oh. You're right.

My stance was fighting the typical "there's no good jrpgs this gen, jrpgs are dead, yadda yadda" "Oh Demon's Souls? That's not a jrpg, that's a wrpg lol"

While ignoring great games like Persona 4, Etrian Odyssey, Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles. It just seems like almost every pro-wrpg fan I encounter who trashes jrpgs regularly really hasn't played a jrpg in about 10 years and is mostly ignorant of the genre.

[BlueTsunami]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

[Himu]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

[BlueTsunami]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

[Himu]

jrpgs aren't dead, they're just scattered all over the place. It's not like last gen where every notable jrpg was on the ps2.

[BlueTsunami]

And I'm not against JRPGs and definitely am not the type that would discount all of them. Shit I mean, I played Jade Cocoon 2 recently and pretty much universally love Dragon Quest! I've just been really dissatisfied with the Easts 360/PS3 offerings. I'm also hoping vXIII isn't vaporware.

[Himu]

I"m just so tired of the wrpg vs jrpg debates on gaf. It makes me hate both camps.

[demi]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

TLR is on 360/PC and one of THE best JRPGs to come out in a long time. You are a PCtard, educate yourself and play a good game. Thank me later

[MCD]

JRPGs

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

Did they say that HD is hard?  I just assumed that because ports sell so well that they just decided to port shit instead of develop new stuff.

[BlueTsunami]

I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

Did they say that HD is hard?  I just assumed that because ports sell so well that they just decided to port shit instead of develop new stuff.

I don't have the direct quote on hand but the director on FFXIII stated something along the lines of creating HD assets for these games is a time consuming process. So it may be one of the reasons why they had completely removed town like areas in FFXIII and went for something much simpler.

[recursivelyenumerable]

It couldn't take that long; they already have all the art design and character design and script and music and damn near everything.  They even have all the high-res models and resources from Advent Children.

What an absurd, false thing to say.

While it's true SE seems to still have a very inefficient HD dev process, you are VASTLY overestimating how much time/work having the original version would save them.  The core elements you list, while obviously very important, are generally designed by a small group of key developers and would account for maybe 5% of the total work required, since creating the actual game assets takes hundreds of people. As for the Advent Children stuff, you're talking about creating a handful of locations that only need to work for the specific shots required by the movie, vs. creating a vast world (besides that most of the stuff in the movie is different from what's in the game anyway ...)

[recursivelyenumerable]

Exactly. And that seems to be one obstacle for it being made. It shows what the developer's priorities are these days.

Wouldn't the higher production values be much of the point of an HD remake, though?  Otherwise why not play the original?

[Raban]

I think if they were to remake FF7, it should be with HD pre-rendered backgrounds, and just re-done in-game sprites. We've seen Midgar in 3D (Crisis Core) and it's boring as fuck.

The battle system shouldn't be touched aside from maybe speeding it up and being a little "bigger" (more enemies in a battle, maybe even a party of four or five during battle, similar to olskoo FF).

I don't really care for FF7, but if they just touched it up, I'd buy it. They don't seem to have any problem half-assing ports of their pre-PS1 games, why not do the same for everything after?

I'm not saying it should suck, but whoever thinks making FF7 more like FF13 would be an improvement must be doing some strong drugs.

[Ichirou]

There were no sprites in FFVII.  The characters were polygonal.

[Ichirou]

Only difference is that Lucas did all those special editions and shit on his own initiative.  All the diehard Star Wars fans want is good-quality transfers of the original films as they were theatrically released, none of this special edition bullshit.

This is pure fanwank, the squeenix fanboys/girls are the ones who are demanding this shit, and Square Enix keeps telling them "NO."

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I don't think too many are demanding a remake but given SE's strategy of just rehashing shit, it is inevitable that FF7 will get remade sometime this decade.  Even then, it is just a small portion of their fanbase, I suspect.  The FF7 spinoffs didn't light the sales charts on fire.  The market that demands this remake is smaller than we think.

[Green Shinobi]

Thinking about torrenting the PC version of FF7 to see how it held up.

[tiesto]

FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.

I'd be happy with a direct port with a re-translation, honestly.

[Raban]

I don't think too many are demanding a remake but given SE's strategy of just rehashing shit, it is inevitable that FF7 will get remade sometime this decade.  Even then, it is just a small portion of their fanbase, I suspect.  The FF7 spinoffs didn't light the sales charts on fire.  The market that demands this remake is smaller than we think.

While this might be true now, it wasn't before. I remember reading that a special edition of Advent Childen, of which only 777,777 copies were made, and which cost $700 (if I'm not mistaken), sold out in a day.

SE kind of fucked themselves by making every spin-off in the FF7 universe absolute shit (AC included), so now the only people that really want an FF7 remake are the take-a-bullet fanboys.

[Himu]

Barrett said "shit" and "ass" or whatever every other sentence. It's the only FF I can think of that does, in fact. 

[MCD]

how rude.

[OptimoPeach]

-The little midget look gave em charm.

Chibi world sprites were kind of a staple of classic FF, sure, but they felt out of place in FFVII, and like most early PSX characters, they look terrible nowadays, whereas those sprites still hold up.

As poorly as those squatty character models from 7 and 9 have aged, I still favor them over 8. That blocky polygonal style is silly enough to be endearing, but the pseudo-realistic crap in 8 is just...yucky. And I think a lot of the authentically zany humor was much easier to pull of before they opted for visual realism in all its dryness

[Green Shinobi]

The problem with FF8 is that they were trying to go for realism before they really had the ability to pull it off.

It's like looking at pre-Renaissance religious paintings.

[Powerslave]

I agree with Wrath's reasons. Also Cloud WAS a cocky asshole for the most part of the game. He wasn't "emo". Just because he has mental issues doesn't mean he's emo.

Kinda struck me that there's like, one black guy in the world, and he's stupid as hell and curses in every sentence.  Good ol' Squaresoft.

There are more black people in the game, the only one I can think of now is one of Don Corneo's goons in the torture basement.


back to the topic at hand... fuck a FF7 remake. The game is a masterpiece already, a remake would only butcher it cause it sure as hell won't be exactly remade, tons of stuff will be altered.