what will be the repercussions when the public discovers the truth about HCR...

[recursivelyenumerable]

... namely, that, after all the rhetoric about how this is going to save/end civilization, in actuality fuck all is going to happen until 2014?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

yeah, I know about the provisions that will take effect immediately.  I'm just bitter that if this had been passed LAST year when I was still 26, had no insurance, and got my fucking front tooth knocked out, it would have saved me a thousand+ dollars.  Now it'll do jack shit for me. 

[close]

[Van Cruncheon]

ttyl when we all get put in nwo rape camps

[Human Snorenado]

Sounds like SOMEONE doesn't want his free silver jaw.  Or complimentary abortions.  Better report this one to the central committee.

[Mandark]

The delay is there to lower the 10-year price tag, because some Senators didn't want to vote for a "trillion dollar bill" (not that this stopped Republicans from calling it that).  The stimulus bumped up against the same objection.

It's weird to think of our cultural affinity for Big Round Numbers having such a substantial effect on the two most important pieces of legislation this year.  Also, as the currency inflates, this will gradually shrink the size of bills that Congress will consider passing, until the trillion dollar barrier is broken and it doesn't seem like such a huge deal.

[ToxicAdam]

"The truth" won't really be seen until about 10 years from now. Even then, there could be a lot more post-2010 tinkering that could change things up even further.

[Mandark]

Also, Clinton settled the Paula Jones suit because she was willing to take ~$900,000.  His pollsters told him that anything over a million would make him seem guilty to the public, while paying less kept it plausible that he was just getting the legal crap over with.

[ToxicAdam]

Paula Jones became famous at the wrong time. Imagine all the Dancing With Stars, Bachelorette and VH1 specials she would have under her belt by now.

[Human Snorenado]

Monica, too.  Actually, didn't Lewinsky have some sort of reality show or some shit like that?  Years and years ago, I think it was.  Ah, the powers of the Clenis.

Which reminds me, I can't wait until Republicans have control of the House again so they can impeach Obama for being born in Kenya.  That'll go over well.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Personally, I tend to mentally round anything above 8×〖10〗^n or so to 〖10〗^(n+1), so they'd have to make it $799 billion to fool me!

Anyway, presumably the delay is also there because complex and sweeping legislation takes time to implement properly?  I work in the Sarbanes-Oxley industry (peripherally, anyway) so I have some idea of that.  But I like whining!

[brawndolicious]

About VH1, during the Lewinski scandal there was apparently a woman who looked a lot like Monica Lewinski who would frequently drive near the White House to get her picture in the news.  Fame could always motivate people to lose their dignity.

[ToxicAdam]

Personally, I tend to mentally round anything above 8×〖10〗^n or so to 〖10〗^(n+1), so they'd have to make it $799 billion to fool me!

Anyway, presumably the delay is also there because complex and sweeping legislation takes time to implement properly?  I work in the Sarbanes-Oxley industry (peripherally, anyway) so I have some idea of that.  But I like whining!

They need more time to build jails to house all the deadbeats who won't buy in and elect members to the death panels.

[Phoenix Dark]

The underground jails are already in place dude, and don't forget all those caskets found in New Orleans 

Too bad this wasn't passed earlier so the early provisions would be in place for the summer. Regardless, I look forward to seeing republicans running on repealing once people get the early stuff. It's all over once the subsidies/exchanges kick in.

[Mandark]

Personally, I tend to mentally round anything above 8×〖10〗^n or so to 〖10〗^(n+1), so they'd have to make it $799 billion to fool me!

Anyway, presumably the delay is also there because complex and sweeping legislation takes time to implement properly?  I work in the Sarbanes-Oxley industry (peripherally, anyway) so I have some idea of that.  But I like whining!

It would have probably taken a couple years to set up anyway, but it's generally understood that the current schedule is definitely driven by the price tag (I think the House version kicked in sooner, but was ~$1.2 trillion).  Same thing happened with Medicare Part D.

So it's not just about big round numbers, but about the convention of defining the 10-year CBO score as "the cost of the bill" and letting it be referred to in headlines and reports as such.

[Oblivion]

The delay is there to lower the 10-year price tag, because some Senators didn't want to vote for a "trillion dollar bill" (not that this stopped Republicans from calling it that).  The stimulus bumped up against the same objection.

It's weird to think of our cultural affinity for Big Round Numbers having such a substantial effect on the two most important pieces of legislation this year.  Also, as the currency inflates, this will gradually shrink the size of bills that Congress will consider passing, until the trillion dollar barrier is broken and it doesn't seem like such a huge deal.

I've rarely seen a dem senator, or representative remind people that the trillion dollar price tag is over the course of 10 years, and that they could easily have explained to everyone that it's only 90-100 billion a year, which is chump change in comparison. They did the same thing with the stimulus, and now almost everyone thinks they spent ~800 billion in a month instead of remind people that this was over the course of a few years, and that 1/3 of that was tax cuts.

democrats

[Mandark]

You are charmingly optimistic about the ability of politicians from one party being able to inform the public through earnest explanation, and about the public's ability to grasp differences of scale and put those numbers in the proper perspective.

[Oblivion]

Eh, it's not really that. It's just annoying when dems don't even make the attempt to counter this sort of thing.

[Mandark]

Even if the Dems lose a few House seats in the fall, I can't see it being more than 10-15 tops

Dumb prediction.

[Phoenix Dark]

My bracket has been annihilated, but I'll make another prediction anyway: dems keep house and senate. They'll lose  20-30 seats in the house, and 4 seats in the senate

[Phoenix Dark]

22 is a  better over/under imo. I say over

[Human Snorenado]

Maurice is correct that 22 is a better over/under number.  I also say over.  I think they'll lose 5-6 seats in the Senate at this point also.  Democrats need to learn how to be dicks better.

[Brehvolution]

Dems ain't losing shit in November. When Steele was saying it was Armageddon, he meant for the republican party. Dems gains seats in both the house and the senate. People are tired of being lied to by the repubs.  Mark my words.

[archie4208]

Dems ain't losing shit in November. When Steele was saying it was Armageddon, he meant for the republican party. Dems gains seats in both the house and the senate. People are tired of being lied to by the repubs.  Mark my words.

Never underestimate the power of idiots who listen to Rush and watch Fox News.

[Human Snorenado]

Dems ain't losing shit in November. When Steele was saying it was Armageddon, he meant for the republican party. Dems gains seats in both the house and the senate. People are tired of being lied to by the repubs.  Mark my words.

Highly doubtful.  President's party almost ALWAYS loses seats in the midterms, only recent exception to the rule was 2002 when OMG WAR was going on.  Honestly, how many seats they lose is probably entirely dependent on the economy/unemployment numbers.  The good news is that like almost 200 billion in stimulus spending is about to happen over the Summer/Fall, so hopefully that improves numbers but they're still gonna lose seats. 

Long term tho, the Republican party is fucked.  Being the party of Crazy Eyed Resentful White Folks is kind of a recipe for disaster.

[The Fake Shemp]

I think this bill is going to fuck up some shit and by fuck up some shit, I mean not really help us at all while forcing everyone to get health insurance. My suspicion is that those that dropped the public option will point to the still expensive health care costs as the reason why we need a public option or single-payer system, and that it'll be introduced when we have no other option.

So either this was a gift to the health care industry or it was smart maneuvering by some politicians to setup the legislative body to do what it wants down the line, recognizing that Congress only works as a reactive body instead of proactive.

[Van Cruncheon]

or both

[The Fake Shemp]

Probably. You should never overestimate Congress, I guess.

... What I expect to occur far sooner is all this rhetoric from the Republicans ("Health care reform is Armageddon! Ready your guns!") to finally push some redneck idiot over the edge and assassinate a Democrat. Then the sweet, delicious back peddling will occur.

"bu bu bu we never told them to kill Barney Frank!"

[tiesto]

ttyl when we all get put in nwo rape camps

You mean we will all be getting raped by these guys? 

[Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich]

I wouldn't mind getting raped by razor ramon

[Phoenix Dark]

What if we capture/kill Osama tho lol

[Human Snorenado]

What if we capture/kill Osama tho lol

Petraeus will get all the credit, guarantee you.

[Phoenix Dark]

From republicans/Fox sure. But it'll be hard to just ignore Obama's role, and most REGULAR people will give him dap

[The Fake Shemp]

Probably. You should never overestimate Congress, I guess.

... What I expect to occur far sooner is all this rhetoric from the Republicans ("Health care reform is Armageddon! Ready your guns!") to finally push some redneck idiot over the edge and assassinate a Democrat. Then the sweet, delicious back peddling will occur.

"bu bu bu we never told them to kill Barney Frank!"

Looks like I'm ahead of the news cycle yet again.

[Raban]

so wait people actually believe in the NWO?

[Phoenix Dark]

and when did Mac start doing steroids!

[Brehvolution]

Looks like I'm ahead of the news cycle yet again.

Conservative activists in Virginia posted the home address of Perriello's older brother — believing it to be the congressman's address — when suggesting in Web postings that those who disagreed with the Democratic lawmaker's vote should "drop by" to make their opposition clear.

The Charlottesville Daily Progress reported that one of the two activists who posted the address condemned the action and said he is "almost speechless."

Are you fucking kidding me???
Did they post it as a joke? How do you get away with trying to incite violence and then act surprise when you get taken seriously? These fucks should get locked up!

[Phoenix Dark]

[brawndolicious]

Dems ain't losing shit in November. When Steele was saying it was Armageddon, he meant for the republican party. Dems gains seats in both the house and the senate. People are tired of being lied to by the repubs.  Mark my words.

well I've been drinking some of that kool-aid..


and I totally agree with you.  the only real issue that americans will care about in the ballot booth is the past two months of economic performance.  I can't see dems losing a lot of seats.

(Image removed from quote.)

is that real?  I looked it up on her website but it's just some barebones donation page.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's on her facebook
http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/dont-get-demoralized-get-organized-take-back-the-20/373854973434

[The Fake Shemp]

TAKE BACK AMERICA WITH HUNTING RHETORIC AND DANGEROUS IMAGERY, BUT THEN ACT TOTALLY CONFUSED WHEN SOME NUTJOB ACTUALLY SHOOTS A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN (OR WOMAN).

[brawndolicious]

crazy.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

It's a piece of shit bill but it is better than nothing, I guess.

As for how many seats will be lost or gained, that is dependent on the economy.  The people crying out over the downfall of America were never Democrat voters and the independents and apathetic Democrats aren't going to move their asses to the poll unless the economy starts moving again.  Not by the Dow but in a tangible form that the public can experience.  I'm assuming the GOP will be out in the same strength and numbers as 2008 but it is about getting the left leaning Independents and apathetic Democrats to the polls.  Which they won't if jack shit is accomplished this year.

The best hope for some seats is that teabaggers try to run independently and cannibalize GOP votes.

[pilonv1]

I wouldn't mind getting raped by razor ramon

...

really?

[Tauntaun]

I wouldn't mind getting raped by razor ramon

...

really?

Wrong Razor Ramon, he means this guy:

[Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich]

look at that gut, 30 more pounds and demi would be all over that!