Green Shinobi vindicated.

[Diunx]

http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/05/video-of-swat-raid-on-missouri

SWAT team breaks into home, fires seven rounds at family's pit bull and corgi (?!) as a seven-year-old looks on.

    They found a "small amount" of marijuana, enough for a misdemeanor charge. The parents were then charged with child endangerment.

    So smoking pot = "child endangerment." Storming a home with guns, then firing bullets into the family pets as a child looks on = necessary police procedures to ensure everyone's safety.

    Just so we're clear.

[Great Rumbler]

Looked like they knocked first to me. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd flip out if cops busted into my house and shot my dog though.

[close]

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I was about to say, they actually knocked.

Looks like they only took out the pitbull, you see the other dog walking past them.

Moral of the story: don't break the law!

[Great Rumbler]

you see the other dog walking past them.

Wait, what? 

[Ichirou]

Leper Willco.  Icon Green Shinobi.

You know it's the right thing to do.

[The Fake Shemp]

you see the other dog walking past them.

Wait, what? 

In the video, when the guy is laying down in the hallway, you can clearly see the other dog walking past them. He says something to the effect of, "Don't shoot my dog, he's a nice dog!" and the dog walks behind them.

Looks like they killed the pitbull, though. If I was a cop entering a guy's house that was suspected as a major distributor, I probably wouldn't want to deal with the pitbull either.

[Smooth Groove]

Annihilated!

[tehjaybo]

"Wouldn't want to" and "shooting a family pet in front of a child" are two different things.  

Now, I support the police force in most cases.  But this is just too much.  

Looks like they killed the pitbull, though. If I was a cop entering a guy's house that was suspected as a major distributor, I probably wouldn't want to deal with the pitbull either.

Was he suspected of being a major distributor?  As far as I could tell, he just had some weed on him.  If that's how police are supposed to proceed on any sort of possession charge, then keep that shit as far from me as possible.

If he was suspected of being a major distributor, then at least wait until the kid is gone or something... I don't know.  They had to have been watching the house to suspect the guy and get a warrant..  they had to know that kid was in there.  No amount of therapy is going to fix that kid.  The police are always going to be those guys that killed his best friend.  Or, if he liked the other dog better, his second best friend.  Whatever.  Still.

[Great Rumbler]

If he was suspected of being a major distributor, then at least wait until the kid is gone or something... I don't know.  They had to have been watching the house to suspect the guy and get a warrant..  they had to know that kid was in there.  No amount of therapy is going to fix that kid.  The police are always going to be those guys that killed his best friend.

When I was growing up, my best friend got killed on a regular basis by cars.

[Robo]

Was he suspected of being a major distributor?  As far as I could tell, he just had some weed on him.  If that's how police are supposed to proceed on any sort of possession charge, then keep that shit as far from me as possible.

T234 is gonna get all of your pets murdered by law enforcement.

[tehjaybo]

If he was suspected of being a major distributor, then at least wait until the kid is gone or something... I don't know.  They had to have been watching the house to suspect the guy and get a warrant..  they had to know that kid was in there.  No amount of therapy is going to fix that kid.  The police are always going to be those guys that killed his best friend.

When I was growing up, my best friend got killed on a regular basis by cars.

You didn't keep them on a leash or in a fenced in area or inside?  That's your own neglect.  It's a little different when the police drop 7 .223 rounds through it from one of 6 assault rifles they raided that house with.

[The Fake Shemp]

Was he suspected of being a major distributor?  As far as I could tell, he just had some weed on him.  If that's how police are supposed to proceed on any sort of possession charge, then keep that shit as far from me as possible.

If he was suspected of being a major distributor, then at least wait until the kid is gone or something... I don't know.  They had to have been watching the house to suspect the guy and get a warrant..  they had to know that kid was in there.  No amount of therapy is going to fix that kid.  The police are always going to be those guys that killed his best friend.  Or, if he liked the other dog better, his second best friend.  Whatever.  Still.

They wouldn't have sent the SWAT team unless they thought he was a distributor and he had guns, both facts are expounded upon in the article. They also said if they believed they could have executed the warrant during the day, they would have.

The likelihood is they had bad intel, and this guy was connected to the wrong people.

Yeah, it totally sucks and the force was disproportionate to the bust, but it's not like they were raiding his house because they thought he had a dime bag.

[BlueTsunami]

Man, I nominate this thread for thread of unintentional hilarity of 2010.

[Donono]

They fucked up.  People will find some way to justify it and write it off though.

[Great Rumbler]

If he was suspected of being a major distributor, then at least wait until the kid is gone or something... I don't know.  They had to have been watching the house to suspect the guy and get a warrant..  they had to know that kid was in there.  No amount of therapy is going to fix that kid.  The police are always going to be those guys that killed his best friend.

When I was growing up, my best friend got killed on a regular basis by cars.

You didn't keep them on a leash or in a fenced in area or inside?  That's your own neglect.

No, we kept them in a fenced in area. They'd just dig out.

[tehjaybo]

I still think a dog being hit by a car and getting shot by the police are two different things, psychologically.

[Great Rumbler]

I still think a dog being hit by a car and getting shot by the police are two different things, psychologically.

My best friends all died, dude! Don't belittle that!!

[Bloodwake]

Man, I nominate this thread for thread of unintentional hilarity of 2010.

Seconded, so fucking funny.

[tehjaybo]

Oh.

[Mandark]

They wouldn't have sent the SWAT team unless they thought he was a distributor and he had guns, both facts are expounded upon in the article.

According to the article the SWAT team handles all similar warrants.  They had no particular reason to believe this man was armed.

[The Fake Shemp]

O RLY, Mandark?

Drug distributors traditionally have a history with firearms, which is why the SWAT team is used when executing such warrants, [police spokeswoman Officer Jessie Haden] said.

[Mandark]

That's the exact sentence I was referring to, actually.

They wouldn't have sent the SWAT team unless they thought he was a distributor and he had guns, both facts are expounded upon in the article.

The point is they don't have those two separate requirements before sending the SWAT.  They apparently send the SWAT team for all alleged distributors, without any independent evidence of firearms.

They had no particular reason to think this man was armed.

You can still be in favor of that sort of policy, but what you said just isn't the case.  That's all.

[The Fake Shemp]

I think the fact that they thought he was a distributor - which "traditionally have a history with firearms" - is reason enough to assume that the man was armed. I don't get how you don't see that.

[Mupepe]

You're buying the line just like the Police want you to.  Of course they're going to say that after this whole debacle.  What do you want them to say?  "We busted in armed and ready even though we didn't really have any evidence to suggest this guy was armed."

Is that what you'd want to hear?  Is that what you'd like them to say???

[T234]

Just how much weed did it take for the cops to shoot the family dog in front of the kids? No amount of grass is worth busting down somebody's door and permanently fucking their kid's psyche to shit.

[Great Rumbler]

I somehow think Greece is responsible for this as well.

[The Fake Shemp]

Again, the SWAT team is not going to show up to some guy's house because they thought he had a dime bag. They thought he was a distributor and as so, likely had firearms.

The suggestion that a bunch of cops strapped on gear and busted down this guy's door for kicks is ridiculous.

[Mupepe]

I guess you don't know many cops.  They do shit like that all the time. 

[The Fake Shemp]

We live in a police state!

[OptimoPeach]

Aww the poor idiot dealing from the house where his wife and kid sleep :'( As for the pit, the cops were just being proactive and saving the kid from having his balls ripped off. Looks like another victory for justice

[Mupepe]

I bet those cops are smoking that weed right now and laughing about this shit.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, that's the most likely scenario.

[BlueTsunami]

Don't shit where you eat, words to live by. Low end pot dealers are so fucking lazy and unambitious that that dealing from their own place of residents is an acceptable risk. Make some easy monies, or stay in and watch Law and Order? How' bout' both?

[Himu]

hahahahahahaha

[huckleberry]

who gives a fuck about the dog?  Fuck the dog......people walk them by my house all the time and they bark and growl and want to attack you...fuck em. Especially if the cops think the bastard is going to go for their balls.


Maybe Boogie can provide insight as to what the procedure is when a 7 year old kid is in the house and they serve a warrant like this. This is my problem with the story...and the shooting.

[Mupepe]

Don't shit where you eat, words to live by. Low end pot dealers are so fucking lazy and unambitious that that dealing from their own place of residents is an acceptable risk. Make some easy monies, or stay in and watch Law and Order? How' bout' both?

Law and Order?  Fuck that.  Stay home.  Smoke some kill and watch Boomerang Flinstones and Jetsons re-runs, my nig.

[Skidmark]

This was just stupid, there are no hostages inside so I don't really understand why they had to make such decisions in a hurry.

[Mupepe]

[Mupepe]

Shoot the kid.  Problem solved.

"What kid?"

[Diunx]

The only solution is for one of the cops to have a gun with sleep darts to shoot the dogs and kids so they won't get in the way, he could wear a bandanna and a sneaky suit.

[Cormacaroni]

Wow, I finally read the article.  I used to work with the guy who wrote it.  A few years ago police raids really became his raison d'être as a writer. 

I don't understand why ever small town in America needs a SWAT team.  The militarization of police forces around the country is really out of control. 

Looks like a classic arms race to me.

[brawndolicious]

They killed Killer, man!
/scarface

WTF do you guys expect?  They enter what I'm guessing is a drug dealer's house and see a pit bull so they shoot it.  If it in fact wasn't trained as an attack dog, then it's a tragedy but it's not like they just wanted to shoot something to get their dicks hard.

[Ichirou]

Highlight of this thread is Willco trying to spin things to justify the insanely excessive force the SWAT team used.

Green Shinobi won.  :'(

[Smooth Groove]

Highlight of this thread is Willco trying to spin things to justify the insanely excessive force the SWAT team used.

Green Shinobi won.  :'(

How's this surprising when Jews are used to spinning things to justify the insanely excessive force of the Israeli government?

[Ichirou]

My cousin's a state trooper, and he looooves to get out his taser at the least provocation, so I totally think The Business's theory is on point.

[Cormacaroni]

Wow, I finally read the article.  I used to work with the guy who wrote it.  A few years ago police raids really became his raison d'être as a writer. 

I don't understand why ever small town in America needs a SWAT team.  The militarization of police forces around the country is really out of control. 

Looks like a classic arms race to me.

I don't know if there was some sort of implied pun here or something but it really is. 

I'm being entirely literal, so we agree. As long as meth-heads can have AK-47s, police chiefs will continue to sign off on SWAT teams with body armor and high-powered rifles rather than regular beat cops with nightsticks. One of the variables has to change for the other to change, which I'm sure you recognize.

[The Fake Shemp]

Highlight of this thread is Willco trying to spin things to justify the insanely excessive force the SWAT team used.

Again, I don't see how standard warrant execution by a SWAT team when busting in the house of a suspected drug dealer is excessive. Either their intel was wrong or the guy moved the stuff out of the house by then.

How about putting some responsibility on the father, who if not a dealer, then at least jeopardized his family's security by hanging around with the wrong people? That's just fucking stupid.

If this was a matter of the SWAT team busting into some random guy's house because they saw him smoking a joint, that would be a different discussion altogether. The amount of cynicism in this thread is ridiculous.

[Ichirou]

Highlight of this thread is Willco trying to spin things to justify the insanely excessive force the SWAT team used.

Again, I don't see how standard warrant execution by a SWAT team when busting in the house of a suspected drug dealer is excessive. Either their intel was wrong or the guy moved the stuff out of the house by then.

You're working off a false premise.  Story doesn't even begin to imply either of the two possibilities you're thinking of are true.

[Smooth Groove]

But the holocaust...

[Ichirou]

I can't believe that poor dog was killed, to no one's tears...

smh SWAT team

[brawndolicious]

You're working off a false premise.  Story doesn't even begin to imply either of the two possibilities you're thinking of are true.

Well I highly doubt that even a single officer would have been sent to the guy's house if they just believed he was just a private user.

[Ichirou]

You're working off a false premise.  Story doesn't even begin to imply either of the two possibilities you're thinking of are true.

Well I highly doubt that even a single officer would have been sent to the guy's house if they just believed he was just a private user.

I think you have no idea how stupid small-town cops can be.

[Diunx]

But the holocaust...

[BlackMage]

who gives a fuck about the dog?  Fuck the dog......people walk them by my house all the time and they bark and growl and want to attack you...fuck em. Especially if the cops think the bastard is going to go for their balls.


Maybe Boogie can provide insight as to what the procedure is when a 7 year old kid is in the house and they serve a warrant like this. This is my problem with the story...and the shooting.

fuck u asshole

[The Fake Shemp]

You're working off a false premise.  Story doesn't even begin to imply either of the two possibilities you're thinking of are true.

Uh, what? The article specifically states that the warrant was executed because they thought he was a distributor, which is why SWAT was brought in.

Specifically mentioned here:

Police discovered a grinder, a pipe and a small amount of marijuana, Haden said. Because the SWAT team acts on the most updated information available, the team wanted to enter the house before marijuana believed to be at the location could be distributed, she said.

“If you let too much time go by, then the drugs are not there,” she said.

Drug distributors traditionally have a history with firearms, which is why the SWAT team is used when executing such warrants, Haden said.

... and here:

Investigators believed Whitworth was in possession of a large amount of marijuana and was considered a distributor, Deputy Chief Tom Dresner said in February.

[Mandark]

I think the fact that they thought he was a distributor - which "traditionally have a history with firearms" - is reason enough to assume that the man was armed. I don't get how you don't see that.

Dude, I understand their reasoning.

I'm just pointing out that you claimed they used two criteria to determine whether to send in the SWAT team, when as a matter of policy they assume the second (presence of weapons) follows the first (being a distributor).  So it's really conditional on just the one thing.

Like I said, you can support or oppose that policy, but what you said earlier wasn't so, and they didn't have any "particular" (as opposed to categorical) reason to think this guy was armed.

[The Fake Shemp]

I never said that SWAT is sent in based on two separate criteria (you're arguing semantics at that point), but that those are the primary reasons why officers in paramilitary gear were sent in - it's irrelevant whether or not one of those is dependent on the other. That doesn't reduce the rationale behind using such force.

EDIT: And specifically for the sake of the argument, I don't think the fact that the officers assumed he had firearms based on the suspicion that he was a dealer should be underplayed.

[Mandark]

They wouldn't have sent the SWAT team unless they thought he was a distributor and he had guns, both facts are expounded upon in the article.

You italicized the "and", and referred to "both" facts.  QED.

That doesn't reduce the rationale behind using such force.

Which is not what I'm arguing at this point, man!  Don't be a JayDubya about this.

[The Fake Shemp]

Again, both are mentioned in the article! The police spokesperson talks about how they thought the suspect was a dealer and that the SWAT team is called in because of the fact that most distributors have a history with firearms.

I don't understand why the latter cannot be mentioned in the argument here.

If your complaint is that I should have stopped at dealer, and assumed that everyone in this thread would have guessed that SWAT was called in because dealers usually have firearms, uh really?

[lennedsay]

This was in Columbia, MO?!   

A few years back, they decriminalized small amounts of weed. All the college kids were getting caught and getting kicked off their sports team, so they just started issuing tickets instead. That town would be nonexistant without Mizzou and their sports teams, so the kids can get by with murder.

But the prick with a pitbull potentially selling to these poor, naive kids?  He must pay...