BOHICA 3D games getting prices jacked up

[Eel O'Brian]

maxy posted this in the 3DS thread, thought such brazen bullshit deserved a solo thread

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252187

Speaking at an E3 executives breakfast event this morning, EA CEO John Riccitiello said:

"3D may well be one of the next and most important drivers for growth. [That's] yet to be seen and I don't think it's a 2010 story in any way, shape or form... in a meaningful way.

"But as we move through 2011, 2012, its likely to be an opportunity both for additional growth and perhaps premium pricing for titles that better support 3D."

if he's putting feelers out there this early then you know it's coming, and not just from EA

calling it now, you'll start seeing $69.99 next year for games with 3D support (which the vast majority of people will never make use of)

yeah, they can keep all that

[Cravis]

It sucks but that's they way the industry is going. They're going to employ the same tactis as the film industry to justify a price increase.

At least they're not up SNES game prices yet. I remember paying $89.99 for some games.

[Positive Touch]

yeah i can't really see people wanting to drop $70 for a game or $50 for a handheld, but enough probably will for companies to keep that price.  thank god for the second hand market!

[Cormacaroni]

I shall repost from that thread too:

WTF how can they up prices of 3D PC games? Aren't ALL PC games that use DirectX 3D-capable already via nVidia 3D glasses?

Yes, but there is a lot of optimization that can/needs to be done to make it really shine. Things like menus and aiming reticles and such need to be tweaked for a start.

[archie4208]

yeah i can't really see people wanting to drop $70 for a game or $50 for a handheld, but enough probably will for companies to keep that price.  thank god for the second hand market!

With the way publishers are dicking over consumers with DRM and online activation codes, look for that to be hampered in the future.

[maxy]

This is the link,btw...nothing new to see

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252187

It's no secret that publishers would like to hike the price,but the problem is that they need some new gimmick...will 3D be that,I don't know

[Eel O'Brian]

i posted that in the OP

[maxy]

 

On topic now,maybe it will be like premium,limited game editions.

3D version $70

2D version $60...you can transform it to 3D by buying $10 DLC

And when 3D is everywhere...game price successfully hiked to $70

[Eel O'Brian]

i'd like to think it will be as gradual a transition as you say, but i think the route a lot of companies are going to take is seizing the opportunity to cram 3D in big titles that were going to sell anyway and shoving it down the public's throat as quickly as possible

COD Modern Warfare 3D, "regular" 3D edition = $70

[TripleA]

Cool.

[Eel O'Brian]

thanks for your input, cabot

[Eel O'Brian]

Implementing 3D support is a fuckload of extra work for engineering. It also dramatically increases the number of bugs due any inconsistency issues with the display render.

I understand, and I don't care if the 3D comes in another version as long as there's a normal "flat" version for the regular price.  I'm just going by what he said, and he made no mention of separate 3D editions.

[Smooth Groove]

Why are you capitalizing "sfags" mojovonio? They are not worthy of that.

duly noted

[MCD]

they can jack up the price all they want, i ain't gonna invest in a 3d tv that require glasses.

nintendo nailed it.

[cool breeze]

I can see 3D being that much extra work on consoles if they have to go in again and make sure it maintains a playable frame rate and all that.  There are a ton of PC games that have 3D and you deal with the performance hit yourself.

still, that's bullshit.  at the very least make it part of the "collectors" edition or something for people who feel the need to purchase that stuff.

[pilonv1]

All this means is that I'm not buying games at launch anymore.

I can see a crash incoming.

[BlueTsunami]

But guys, with 3D they gotta develop the game TWICE!

Implementing 3D support is a fuckload of extra work for engineering. It also dramatically increases the number of bugs due any inconsistency issues with the display render.

Sheeit  :'(

[chronovore]

I dunno; I think 3D is probably more compelling for games (immersive+interactive) than it is for movie/tv content (immersive+passive).

However, I think it's egregiously egotistic to expect gamers to pay huge amounts for what is essentially an accessory. The move to HDTV has occurred because creation of HDTV sets became very competitive, so it became very cheap. It became competitive because governments moved away from analog broadcast to digital, and TV makers saw an opportunity to sell a lot of boxes in a very short time. They did. But by no means does it mean that it will happen all over again this soon. I expect very slow uptake of this technology.

Also about dev for 3D? All kinds of stuff that works really easily in 2D, it's not as simple to pull off in 3D. Think about how trees and bushes are rendered, especially in something like RDR or GTA IV. Those crossed-up polygons they use for bulking out leaves look like crap in 3D, but they look OK in 2D. OTOH apparently some stuff with normal maps can really make graphics pop cheaply in 3D. It's a new thing to consider, research, and as has been pointed out already: bug check.

[maxy]

Hey look it's Killzone in 3D

Even the alpha channel is cut half (alpha in the 2D mode of KZ3 is quater of the 720P res (640 x 360) as KZ2) creating some horrible aliasing artifacts.


I see a lot more pop ups on 3D as well. (even with the halved res, you'd still need to render twice the geometry with 3D)

3D vs 2D






http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21939393&postcount=5446

    

So at the end of this gen we will be playing games in even below SD resolutions and games will cost more.
3D sfags

Next gen=720p gen...maybe

I guess Nintendo was right

SD
Nintendo

[MCD]

Iwata-sama

[archie4208]

I thought the PS3 could do 4D.  What happened?

[cool breeze]

I thought something was wrong with with the video and that's why it was so blurry during the conference.  That is pretty bad.

yeah, the focus on 3D games is messy considering how much you have to sacrifice.  Yesterday I heard about Motorstorm 3's solution of making sure everything runs perfect at 1080p, then dropping it to 720p for 3D.  That's more or less what Wipeout HD and SSDHD did.

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

[BlueTsunami]

With 3D though it becomes less about the fine detail since its hard to focus on specific things and notice stuff (as you would with 2D). With that said, the fidelity would definitely only be better if we didn't get the downgrade in resolution. I almost want to say they should have waited for PS4 but getting this out the gate this gen so they can be ready for it next gen is a good idea.

[chronovore]

I thought something was wrong with with the video and that's why it was so blurry during the conference.  That is pretty bad.

yeah, the focus on 3D games is messy considering how much you have to sacrifice.  Yesterday I heard about Motorstorm 3's solution of making sure everything runs perfect at 1080p, then dropping it to 720p for 3D.  That's more or less what Wipeout HD and SSDHD did.

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

Yeah, but then you have to look at how many people will actually buy it for that feature, vs. how much it will cost to implement. Sure people will buy a 3D game because it will take advantage of their TV, but how many would not buy the game unless it also works with their TWO PS3s?

[Dickie Dee]

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

Sounds distinguished mentally-challenged, but people are buying $3000+ TVs to play 3D KZ3 (who are likely ones that already have the highest end $1500-$2000 TVs anyways) spending another $299 on a ps3 is the least distinguished mentally-challenged part of the whole deal.

[Dickie Dee]

I thought something was wrong with with the video and that's why it was so blurry during the conference.  That is pretty bad.

yeah, the focus on 3D games is messy considering how much you have to sacrifice.  Yesterday I heard about Motorstorm 3's solution of making sure everything runs perfect at 1080p, then dropping it to 720p for 3D.  That's more or less what Wipeout HD and SSDHD did.

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

Yeah, but then you have to look at how many people will actually buy it for that feature, vs. how much it will cost to implement. Sure people will buy a 3D game because it will take advantage of their TV, but how many would not buy the game unless it also works with their TWO PS3s?

I think the hypothetical (talking out of our ass) is that there'd be full graphical fidelity and framerate with one PS3, a second one would enable 3D output.

Edit: Though wouldn't happen as "everyone wins" except Sony marketing who want to use 3D as a bullet point.

[pilonv1]

Sub HD gaming for 3D? I hope 3D dies more than Wii at this stage, it's totally unnecessary.

[naff]

I shall repost from that thread too:

WTF how can they up prices of 3D PC games? Aren't ALL PC games that use DirectX 3D-capable already via nVidia 3D glasses?

But look the skyboxes have been optimised for 3D!!! FLUFFY CLOUDS 

10$ please.

[cool breeze]

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

Sounds distinguished mentally-challenged, but people are buying $3000+ TVs to play 3D KZ3 (who are likely ones that already have the highest end $1500-$2000 TVs anyways) spending another $299 on a ps3 is the least distinguished mentally-challenged part of the whole deal.

yeah, that's what I'm saying.  If you spent X amount of money on a PS3, X amount on a 3DTV (prices are jacked up), and X amount on the glasses and whatever else you needed, spending another $400 (how much does the PS3 cost these days?) on a second PS3 to enhance the experience is just a drop in your shame bucket.

Yeah, but then you have to look at how many people will actually buy it for that feature, vs. how much it will cost to implement. Sure people will buy a 3D game because it will take advantage of their TV, but how many would not buy the game unless it also works with their TWO PS3s?

admittedly I'm just looking at it in the way I view PC hardware, as in, "hey, this game isn't running great, I'll throw in more ram or another graphics card!"  It's true that console game built to scale depending on hardware differences. 

[Smooth Groove]

I shall repost from that thread too:

WTF how can they up prices of 3D PC games? Aren't ALL PC games that use DirectX 3D-capable already via nVidia 3D glasses?

I think they work but not as well as games that are specifically programmed for 3D like Batman AA and Resident Evil 5. 

I thought something was wrong with with the video and that's why it was so blurry during the conference.  That is pretty bad.

yeah, the focus on 3D games is messy considering how much you have to sacrifice.  Yesterday I heard about Motorstorm 3's solution of making sure everything runs perfect at 1080p, then dropping it to 720p for 3D.  That's more or less what Wipeout HD and SSDHD did.

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

How's that possible?  The first two Motorstorms didn't have great framerates even at 720p. 

Also, SLI on consoles?

[maxy]

I shall repost from that thread too:

WTF how can they up prices of 3D PC games? Aren't ALL PC games that use DirectX 3D-capable already via nVidia 3D glasses?

I think they work but not as well as games that are specifically programmed for 3D like Batman AA and Resident Evil 5. 

I thought something was wrong with with the video and that's why it was so blurry during the conference.  That is pretty bad.

yeah, the focus on 3D games is messy considering how much you have to sacrifice.  Yesterday I heard about Motorstorm 3's solution of making sure everything runs perfect at 1080p, then dropping it to 720p for 3D.  That's more or less what Wipeout HD and SSDHD did.

Would it even be possible to give the option to use two PS3s to play a single game? I think that's what Forza 3 did for multiple monitors.  That way the people who clearly have no concept of money and invested in this 3D tech could spend a little more.

How's that possible?  The first two Motorstorms didn't have great framerates even at 720p. 

Also, SLI on consoles?

Beyond3D resident pixel counter said this

Motorstorm Pacific 3D demo uses dynamic resolution between 1280x720 and 640x720(maybe less)

[Smooth Groove]

I don't see how dynamic resolution is a good thing.  It's like when my Direct TV switches to a SD signal momentarily when it's getting a bad HD signal.  The downgrade is always noticeable. 

[maxy]

I don't see how dynamic resolution is a good thing.  It's like when my Direct TV switches to a SD signal momentarily when it's getting a bad HD signal.  The downgrade is always noticeable. 

It's not a good thing...good in terms of IQ
Good for performance issues though.

Their excuse is that player won't notice it,because it usually happens when there are lots of stuff happening on screen...
But then if player won't notice it,why not keep it at bottom level all the time...

Basically a performance,PR thing...our game is 720p,although most of the time it runs at SD res because it always has lots of shit going around
If performance issues were minimal,nobody would bother with it