Author Topic: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party  (Read 2795 times)

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etiolate

  • Senior Member
The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party, or to weaken the competition of other third parties.  The whole key to 3rd party sales is lots of attention on your title, and a lack of competition from other titles.

I think the topic title is pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with third parties.  Nintendo gets knocked for their lack of 3rd party support, but Nintendo themselves really went out of their way post-n64 era to get more third parties and to make their platform more third party friendly and cheaper to develop for. Even so, with the DS at the top right now it's Nintendo and Square doing all the work.  That's how it is and how it will be, and if Square increases their output(which it looks like they are doing) on the system then that is how it will stay.  Nobody can compete against monthly releases from publisher's of Squareenix and Nintendo's size and stature every month, no matter what system you are developing for.  It's not that the audience wouldn't give your game a shot, or that the company gave you a shotty setup, it's just that if you could choose between a Lexus, a Mercedes and an unknown and they all cost the same amount... people will buy the Lexus or Mercedes.  That is the issue when you go up against strong first party support.

Sony consoles succeeded because their first party was not as strong as Nintendo's and this opened up things for 3rd parties due to lack of competition. Now look at what Sony's focus has been with the PS3, their own first party software, and what do you see?  A third party exodus.  Where are some of the games going? To the 360.  And why? Because outside of Halo, MS' first party is pathetic.  There is no competition, every month is open space for whoever can put something half-decent out.  Lego Star Wars 2 is a nice game, but it wouldn't sell against a Nintendo or Squaresoft or Gran Turismo. On the 360 though, it can grab the spotlight for a little while.

So, you can't really cater to third parties without fucking over your own in-house development. This is why I roll my eyes whenever media twats talk about "third party support", because good third party sales means you normally have equally bad first party sales. Then the media compounds their ignorance by promoting the hype/pr fest that typically highlights one game in contrast to the variety of software that is available. The media really helps make it a self fullfilling prophecy.

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2006, 04:23:28 AM »
Well with PS2, Sony got an entire mindshare that was convinced (early I would say) that any game they want would be on PS2 and also some exclusives.  Therefore, just make the biggest shitload of hype and non-kiddy systems to get these third-parties.

The Sceneman

  • Did my wife send you?
  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2006, 06:18:07 AM »
Well with PS2, Sony got an entire mindshare that was convinced (early I would say) that any game they want would be on PS2 and also some exclusives.  Therefore, just make the biggest shitload of hype and non-kiddy systems to get these third-parties.

The PS2 has an amazing library, but Sony's success is one complete fluke. For some reason 22 million drug taking british men decided that the Wipeout series had something to do with their drug culture.
#1

Diablos

  • Guest
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2006, 07:53:14 AM »
Sony's first party games are getting better, but not to the point where all third parties are going to jump ship.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 07:56:39 AM by Diablos »

The Sceneman

  • Did my wife send you?
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Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2006, 10:15:26 AM »
I don't think so. Nintendo has a lot of games and genres that Nintendo doesn't create as a first party. If Resident Evil Wii was released on Wii, Nintendo's first party strength wouldn't prevent it from selling because Nintendo has no game comparable to Resident Evil or even something in that genre.

Eternal Darkness was the answer.
#1

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2006, 05:39:26 PM »
The PS2 has an amazing library, but Sony's success is one complete fluke. For some reason 22 million drug taking british men decided that the Wipeout series had something to do with their drug culture.
To this day I don't get how the PS2 got so much success so fast.

FlameOfCallandor

  • The Walking Dead
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 05:53:42 PM »
The only first party worth talking about is Nintendo. What does Sony make? Some shitty sports games and ICO. And microsoft has some decent windows games, but nothing i heard of on the Xbox.
But your theory doesnt work because the gamecube had across the board shitty first party games. Mario, Zelda, Star Fox were all below the standard that was expected. The only first party title that I liked was Smash.

I really hope the Wii gets better third part supprt though.

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2006, 06:02:38 PM »
Don't talk.

FlameOfCallandor

  • The Walking Dead
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2006, 06:10:34 PM »
Don't talk.

What are you some kind of Nintendo Fan Boy cigarillo that thinks the gamecube first party titles were good?

Lets see what we got.

Luigis mansion- Shit
Mario Sunshine -Pretty crappy for a mario game
Smash -Awesome
Star Fox- Shitty
Wind Waker- Short and Shit
Mario Kart -Now this was a turd
Custom Robo - God Aweful
Battalion Wars- Had potential but was a let down


F-Zero was pretty good and the Pikmin games delivered.

My point was that if The Ops theory of lowerinf first party games to get 3rd party support was true, than the gamecube would have had lots of 3rd party support.

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2006, 06:33:22 PM »
The thread is about how nintendo fans buy a system just for nintendo games, such as kirby air ride outselling any third party game.  And while nintendo makes some shit games, they make many good games.  Zelda: WW was the best adventure game of last gen (haven't played TP) and MP, Pikmin, F-Zero (exclusive but was a third party) and especially SSBM  were all the types of games people bought gamecubes for.  Nobody cares if you can troll, it just makes you more pathetic in your own eyes.

Van Cruncheon

  • live mas or die trying
  • Banned
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2006, 07:21:26 PM »
Kirby's Air Ride STILL sells -- parents buy it for kids, for some unknowable reason.
duc

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2006, 09:01:00 PM »
Don't talk.

What are you some kind of Nintendo Fan Boy cigarillo that thinks the gamecube first party titles were good?

Lets see what we got.

Luigis mansion- Shit
Mario Sunshine -Pretty crappy for a mario game
Smash -Awesome
Star Fox- Shitty
Wind Waker- Short and Shit
Mario Kart -Now this was a turd
Custom Robo - God Aweful
Battalion Wars- Had potential but was a let down


F-Zero was pretty good and the Pikmin games delivered.

My point was that if The Ops theory of lowerinf first party games to get 3rd party support was true, than the gamecube would have had lots of 3rd party support.

Like most shitty games, they were still popular with casuals.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2006, 09:24:22 PM »
Don't talk.

What are you some kind of Nintendo Fan Boy cigarillo that thinks the gamecube first party titles were good?

Lets see what we got.

Luigis mansion- Shit
Mario Sunshine -Pretty crappy for a mario game
Smash -Awesome
Star Fox- Shitty
Wind Waker- Short and Shit
Mario Kart -Now this was a turd
Custom Robo - God Aweful
Battalion Wars- Had potential but was a let down


F-Zero was pretty good and the Pikmin games delivered.

My point was that if The Ops theory of lowerinf first party games to get 3rd party support was true, than the gamecube would have had lots of 3rd party support.


You are soooooooo wrong

CajoleJuice

  • kill me
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Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 09:46:31 PM »
Blood is coming out of my nose and ears right now.
AMC

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 09:57:39 PM »
Awesome

Fatghost28

  • Finally got a tag
  • Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2006, 01:43:49 AM »
The exodus from PS3 has more to do with the high price of the machine, the high cost of development, and the low attach ratio.  This makes the grass look a lot greener on the 360 side of the fence.

If Nintendo had released a next gen system, the exodus would have probably been to them instead. 
HOT

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2006, 01:53:01 AM »
Oh fatghost..

The exodus was to Nintendo



And to even older tech than Wii!

Fatghost28

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Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2006, 02:52:04 AM »
Oh fatghost..

The exodus was to Nintendo

(Image removed from quote.)

And to even older tech than Wii!

DQ is unique in that as a series, it actively avoids shiny graphics in favor of nostalgia.  It would be a lot harder for FFXIII to make that transition for example.
HOT

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The only way to cater to third parties is to weaken your first party
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2006, 04:17:23 AM »
I don't think so.  I think there would be more outcry if Final Fantasy did it, since it is relevant in other countries, but Final Fantasy has been a graphically hohum hardcore series, then a graphically WOW mainstream series when it hit Playstation, then a MMO when it hit PS2.  It's a ductile series more than people think.