Final Fantasy XIV *crickets* (2.1!)

[demi]

because it has stats and grindan

[Raban]

I guess I don't put as much stock in video game reviews as you do. Numbers on a scoreboard don't matter to me. I agree that S-E is taking their sweet ass time with every game only to produce subpar results in ratio to the dev time. I'm doubtful we'll see a Final Fantasy 15 this gen. I agree that S-E should be ashamed of how fucking awful FF14 and how they honestly expect people to pay money for it.

But if you ask me, this kind of behavior should come as no surprise. Really this thing has been stewing since S-E returned to FF7 and made it a franchise. Since then Square has been pumping out mediocre game after mediocre game solely for the purpose of vacuuming money out of people's wallets. To pin the whole thing on FF13 and 14 is total bullshit.

[Himu]

I don't put stock into game reviews.

However, this is about brand name recognition, standards and quality.

A Final Fantasy game getting two 4/10's in a row is the equivalent of a new Super Mario game getting 4/10 and not from some troll magazine like Edge either, but from two major gaming outlets. It's just something I cannot believe.

It is not an overreaction to say that S-E has put out two rushed products within the same year with the Final Fantasy name on them. As a result quality is lesser, standards are shattered, the Final Fantasy name is now effectively not attached to quality. As a fan of the series, that's all I want. Not for new entries to "dethrone my personal favorite" or whatever bullshit. What I just described in the above paragraph is text book case jumping the shark. They are now only going through the motions.

[archie4208]

MMOs are garbage. who cares if they get low score. Squeenix is doing great. FF14 isnt gonna kill the company... rofl

Demi's right, even "good" MMOs suck. Might as well just play Two Worlds II or something instead.

Guild Wars 2 is the savior of MMOs. 

[Raban]

I don't put stock into game reviews.

However, this is about brand name recognition, standards and quality.

A Final Fantasy game getting two 4/10's in a row is the equivalent of a new Super Mario game getting 4/10 and not from some troll magazine like Edge either, but from two major gaming outlets. It's just something I cannot believe.

It is not an overreaction to say that S-E has put out two rushed products within the same year with the Final Fantasy name on them. As a result quality is lesser, standards are shattered, the Final Fantasy name is now effectively not attached to quality. As a fan of the series, that's all I want. Not for new entries to "dethrone my personal favorite" or whatever bullshit. What I just described in the above paragraph is text book case jumping the shark. They are now only going through the motions.

You are putting stock into game reviews. Are we even talking about the games now? You keep bringing up the same fucking 4/10. Obviously it means something to you. Do you think the average consumer even cares about review scores for video games? We're talking about something that most people perceive as a children's toy, man.

You know what other games sucked "with the Final Fantasy name on them"? Dirge of Cerberus. The PSP Final Fantasy remakes. Sure they didn't get 4/10s, but they certainly sucked enough to turn away a portion of the fanbase that was banking their game purchases based on name alone.

I stopped thinking associating a franchise with quality unequivocally was rational when I played MGS4. To think that after a couple unsatisfactory games, mind you, in your own opinion, the entire series is worthless is an overreaction. That's not my opinion, that shit is fact. All I see are bitter tears over lofty expectations unmet. Not Square-Enix's problem, and it definitely isn't a view that I share.

I'm not a blind fanboy of Square either, tbh I think most of their games post-Enix are complete shit, but Final Fantasy games are still good. Or at least as good as they ever were.

[Sho Nuff]

Hell, SE is trying to get the bad reviews pulled citing some BS 30-day embargo that is impossible to enforce. They want to trick people into paying for at least one month, but the game is out and they're scrambling to get sites to pull the bad reviews until next month. Sorry SE, bug you can't censor people once your shit is on store shelves.

Damn, really? But only GS and GT have posted reviews so far, is SE going after them?

[magus]

yea i've heard the same thing too
here's a source
http://jin115.com/archives/51714884.html

also i posted this on the random gaming talk thread but i guess it deserves is place more here
http://bennyhillifier.com/?id=La9nLBfH44c&feature=related

[ManaByte]

Hell, SE is trying to get the bad reviews pulled citing some BS 30-day embargo that is impossible to enforce. They want to trick people into paying for at least one month, but the game is out and they're scrambling to get sites to pull the bad reviews until next month. Sorry SE, bug you can't censor people once your shit is on store shelves.

Damn, really? But only GS and GT have posted reviews so far, is SE going after them?

Huh? Lots of sites have and IGN has been posting a week long review in progress that keeps getting more negative.

[Phoenix Dark]

I hope no one pulls them. SE deserves the shame. GT puts it perfectly: the game was created in a vacuum. It's like they had no fucking idea what was going on, even in eastern mmos, and didn't give a shit.

[TripleA]

Poor Square.

Perhaps they should use some of their MicroBucks to hire some western designers.

[TripleA]

I don't put stock into game reviews.

However, this is about brand name recognition, standards and quality.

A Final Fantasy game getting two 4/10's in a row is the equivalent of a new Super Mario game getting 4/10 and not from some troll magazine like Edge either, but from two major gaming outlets. It's just something I cannot believe.

It is not an overreaction to say that S-E has put out two rushed products within the same year with the Final Fantasy name on them. As a result quality is lesser, standards are shattered, the Final Fantasy name is now effectively not attached to quality. As a fan of the series, that's all I want. Not for new entries to "dethrone my personal favorite" or whatever bullshit. What I just described in the above paragraph is text book case jumping the shark. They are now only going through the motions.

Good points.

I think the next mainline FF should be a complete reboot of the franchise. The brand has been terribly weakened by mediocre and below average entries in the franchise.

Square are in a "prove yourself" position; if Versus 13 doesn't 'fix' the horrendous mistakes made in FF13, then Square will officially be in serious trouble.

Dragon Quest alone can't float the company.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I think the next mainline FF should be a complete reboot of the franchise

what does this even mean? they reboot with every new numbered game anyway.

[ManaByte]

I hope no one pulls them. SE deserves the shame. GT puts it perfectly: the game was created in a vacuum. It's like they had no fucking idea what was going on, even in eastern mmos, and didn't give a shit.

IGN and Gamespot may. SE is threatening no review copies of other games unless the reviews are pulled.

[TripleA]

I think the next mainline FF should be a complete reboot of the franchise

what does this even mean? they reboot with every new numbered game anyway.

For one, it shouldn't be titled Final Fantasy 15.

[TripleA]

I hope no one pulls them. SE deserves the shame. GT puts it perfectly: the game was created in a vacuum. It's like they had no fucking idea what was going on, even in eastern mmos, and didn't give a shit.

IGN and Gamespot may. SE is threatening no review copies of other games unless the reviews are pulled.

Oh no, no review copy of GunLoco.

[Sho Nuff]

I hope no one pulls them. SE deserves the shame. GT puts it perfectly: the game was created in a vacuum. It's like they had no fucking idea what was going on, even in eastern mmos, and didn't give a shit.

IGN and Gamespot may. SE is threatening no review copies of other games unless the reviews are pulled.

Wow just wow.

[recursivelyenumerable]

For one, it shouldn't be titled Final Fantasy 15.

So a spinoff then?

[TripleA]

For one, it shouldn't be titled Final Fantasy 15.

So a spinoff then?

No, a complete reboot.

[magus]

so they should turn final fantasy into a gritty FPS or one of those western rpg where you decide who you get to screw and have important moral questions like "do i murder everyone or do i donate all my money to the church?"

However, this is about brand name recognition, standards and quality.

standards and quality have been thrown out of the window well before FF14,that doesn't make the brand less strong because there will still be a lot of people who will buy the game no matter what,just look at all the people going for agito even tough they know almost nothing about it

you are part of the problem himuro

[recursivelyenumerable]

No, a complete reboot.

Apart from the title (I'm guessing you think they should just call it "Final Fantasy"?), how will it be different from all the other numbered games which are also complete reboots?

[demi]

lol. He probably wants the next one to just be called "Final Fantasy"

which would... make loads of sense

[recursivelyenumerable]

Finaler Fantasy

[demi]

Seriously Last Fantasy XV

[SantaC]

if SE continues in the same shitty pace FF will die out sooner than later. FFXV - The final bomba

[TripleA]

No, a complete reboot.

Apart from the title (I'm guessing you think they should just call it "Final Fantasy"?), how will it be different from all the other numbered games which are also complete reboots?

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a reboot.

I'm talking about Square Enix throwing out everything that Final Fantasy is currently known for; archaic gameplay mechanics, horrific pacing, canned animations, mediocre camerawork, cheesy dialogue, generic tween-inspired storyline, horrendous /non-existent online, metrosexual and brow-raising character designs, the list goes on and on and on. I'm talking about Square Enix redoing Final Fantasy and thus completely redefining the franchise.

Let me know if you still have difficulty comprehending the concept of a reboot.

[Himu]

so they should turn final fantasy into a gritty FPS or one of those western rpg where you decide who you get to screw and have important moral questions like "do i murder everyone or do i donate all my money to the church?"

However, this is about brand name recognition, standards and quality.

standards and quality have been thrown out of the window well before FF14,that doesn't make the brand less strong because there will still be a lot of people who will buy the game no matter what,just look at all the people going for agito even tough they know almost nothing about it

you are part of the problem himuro

I am not a part of the problem.

I have not bought FF14 and don't plan on playing FF14.

However, FF13 is a total strike. Agito and Versus must prove themselves to be viable games. I enjoy SMT games far more than FF anyways these days. I don't see why I should pay full price for games I know I'm not going to like.

Also, I agree. Standards and quality were thrown out the window a long time ago. Look at Four Warriors of Light or those Crystal Chronicles games. However, I don't think those games were received so badly they were given such low scores as 4/10. If FF fans were skeptical about S-E's development process before FF14 hit, FF14's reception has all but confirmed all suspicions: S-E no longer knows how to or has the means to make quality Final Fantasy games. Which is why I'm waiting for Agito and Versus to prove me wrong.

I think Agito will be more successful. I think a giant part of S-E's current problem, at least on the console side of things, is their emphasis on graphics and movies and stories and trying to make the audience cry or whatever the fuck. Agito looks like a more straight up gameplay first affair with moderate production values. Someone needs to teach S-E you can have a successful, fun game without the production values of a Hollywood movie. Funnily enough, these Hollywood Gaming budgets are half the reason their games take an eon to come out now.

[demi]

So dont? I'll go buy my copy though. See ya

[Himu]

Final Fantasy 15 should be on 3ds.
 
Less budget to work with, less bloat due to size restraints, smaller development time, less emphasis on GRAPHICS and OMG EMOTIONS and more on gameplay.

FF doesn't need a reboot; it needs a change in priorities.

[demi]

I disagree. They should re-skin The Last Remnant and call it FF XV

Can you imagine FF with a Sekito soundtrack. Soooo sick

[Himu]

No, a complete reboot.

Apart from the title (I'm guessing you think they should just call it "Final Fantasy"?), how will it be different from all the other numbered games which are also complete reboots?

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a reboot.

I'm talking about Square Enix throwing out everything that Final Fantasy is currently known for; archaic gameplay mechanics, horrific pacing, canned animations, mediocre camerawork, cheesy dialogue, generic tween-inspired storyline, horrendous /non-existent online, metrosexual and brow-raising character designs, the list goes on and on and on. I'm talking about Square Enix redoing Final Fantasy and thus completely redefining the franchise.

Let me know if you still have difficulty comprehending the concept of a reboot.

AIght. Agree with this. But it doesn't need a "reboot" per se.

[demi]

Himu why havent you played TLR yet. It will easily rejuvenate your Square love. It is on PC too.

[Himu]

I should give it a shot, you're right.

For the record, I have nothing against Square. I think they're fab developers and publisher these days, which seems to be a minority position. If you look at their current handheld output and future handheld output, S-E is doing fine. It's Final Fantasy I have problems with.

[TripleA]

Final Fantasy 15 should be on 3ds.
 
Less budget to work with, less bloat due to size restraints, smaller development time, less emphasis on GRAPHICS and OMG EMOTIONS and more on gameplay.

FF doesn't need a reboot; it needs a change in priorities.

Given the current situation of HD development in Japan, I would be surprised if FF15 wasn't on a sub-HD platform. 3DS, Wii 2, PSP2, one of the three will get the next Final Fantasy.

[Himu]

FF15 needs to go to 3ds. I am fucking serious.

These 5 year development times with Hollywood budgets is fucking stupid.

Bring back pre-rendered bgs, don't make every single part of the game a 3d asset, lessen the development cycle, lower your budget, gain more money in the process.

[TripleA]

No, a complete reboot.

Apart from the title (I'm guessing you think they should just call it "Final Fantasy"?), how will it be different from all the other numbered games which are also complete reboots?

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a reboot.

I'm talking about Square Enix throwing out everything that Final Fantasy is currently known for; archaic gameplay mechanics, horrific pacing, canned animations, mediocre camerawork, cheesy dialogue, generic tween-inspired storyline, horrendous /non-existent online, metrosexual and brow-raising character designs, the list goes on and on and on. I'm talking about Square Enix redoing Final Fantasy and thus completely redefining the franchise.

Let me know if you still have difficulty comprehending the concept of a reboot.

AIght. Agree with this. But it doesn't need a "reboot" per se.

Perhaps if Versus 13 turns out great they won't need to reboot the franchise.

[TripleA]

So dont? I'll go buy my copy though. See ya

Have fun.

[Himu]

But Versus 13 doesn't fix the long development cycles and all that.

[GilloD]

When was the last time a Final Fantasy game was interesting, compelling, well-written and fun to play? Like 15 years ago. Final Fantasy 6 was the end of it.

I'll never get the FF7 fanboys- What the fuck is that game even about?

[Raban]

I'd cum if FF15 came out on 3DS or Wii. That'd be awesome. Just doesn't seem in line with S-E's current design philosophy in the Final Fantasy series.

I still love Final Fantasy as a series, I don't share the popular distaste for 13 and so as it stands the series has only crafted one critically panned mainline FF, a game I wasn't going to get anyways because I have a functioning brain and understand asians can't make MMOs.

The epic dev times work out to be advantageous for me, since when I see a new FF I get hyped to high heaven and the time elapsed between announement and release is so great that I often lose all hype and actually forget the game's release date only to purchase it months afterward.

[TripleA]

When was the last time a Final Fantasy game was interesting, compelling, well-written and fun to play? Like 15 years ago. Final Fantasy 6 was the end of it.

I'll never get the FF7 fanboys- What the fuck is that game even about?

FF7 was essentially the first 'epic' console game.

[TripleA]

But Versus 13 doesn't fix the long development cycles and all that.

I know 

[magus]

When was the last time a Final Fantasy game was interesting, compelling, well-written and fun to play? Like 15 years ago. Final Fantasy 6 was the end of it.

I'll never get the FF7 fanboys- What the fuck is that game even about?

somebody should post that gif that goes like "final fantasy 6/7 is about an amnesiac protagonist called terra/cloud who fight an evil empire who's trying to conquer the world trough the power of magicite/mako....."

[recursivelyenumerable]

I'm talking about Square Enix throwing out everything that Final Fantasy is currently known for; archaic gameplay mechanics, horrific pacing, canned animations, mediocre camerawork, cheesy dialogue, generic tween-inspired storyline, horrendous /non-existent online, metrosexual and brow-raising character designs, the list goes on and on and on. I'm talking about Square Enix redoing Final Fantasy and thus completely redefining the franchise.

yes, that's brilliant, all they have to do is decide to THIS time have good pacing, dialogue and camerawork, along with everything else, and it'll happen! because I'm sure the initial project plans of the games you don't like all included "bad pacing, dialogue and camerawork" on their lists of intended features before development began!

I've always wanted to make a game too, but I've always gotten stuck because I could never decide whether it should be cool or lame. Could someone help me out?

[Raban]

Has TripleA been annhilated more times than Glen? Anybody keeping count? It's gotta be close.

[TripleA]

I'm talking about Square Enix throwing out everything that Final Fantasy is currently known for; archaic gameplay mechanics, horrific pacing, canned animations, mediocre camerawork, cheesy dialogue, generic tween-inspired storyline, horrendous /non-existent online, metrosexual and brow-raising character designs, the list goes on and on and on. I'm talking about Square Enix redoing Final Fantasy and thus completely redefining the franchise.

yes, that's brilliant, all they have to do is decide to THIS time have good pacing, dialogue and camerawork, along with everything else, and it'll happen! because I'm sure the initial project plans of the games you don't like all included "bad pacing, dialogue and camerawork" on their lists of intended features before development began!

I've always wanted to make a game too, but I've always gotten stuck because I could never decide whether it should be cool or lame. Could someone help me out?

Did you miss my previous post where I said they have greatly weakened the Final Fantasy brand by releasing mediocre games? And thus a feasible and impactful move to regaining consumer trust would be to reboot the franchise?

You may not realize this due to your rabid mentality on the matter, but the naming convention of Final Fantasy is also part of the problem. Naming the next entry "Final Fantasy 15" will instantly tie the game to atrocious Final Fantasy 14 and the mediocre Final Fantasy 13. Is that really going to help Square Enix in the grand scheme of things?

The hard truth for Square is as follows; Final Fantasy is losing it's relevancy in the video game industry. And it will continue to lose it's relevancy if they do not take drastic measures for the next installment. Now you need to ask yourself, what would be more drastic and beneficial to the Final Fantasy franchise; Announcing FF15 with improvements to the way the game previously played, or announcing a complete reboot of the Final Fantasy franchise with an entirely new set of features and gameplay mechanics? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

This might be difficult for you to understand, but when you really think about it, the best move for the future of FF is to do a complete reboot. We have seen reboots do wonders for numerous film and video game properties, hell, a Square Enix property (Tomb Raider) is currently undergoing a successful reboot thanks to Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light. So the chances of Square Enix successfully reinventing Final Fantasy (and in effect breathing life into the stagnant JRPG genre) are actually pretty good.

[TripleA]

Has TripleA been annhilated more times than Glen? Anybody keeping count? It's gotta be close.

What's annhilated

[TripleA]

Anyways, speaking of Japanese franchises that need rebooting; whatever happened to Onimusha?

[Diunx]

The only great Final Fantasy games since the snes era have been Tactics and 12, 7 is mediocre and extremely overrated, 8 and 9 are good but not great, 10,10-2 and 13 are

[Himu]

Gotta agree with TripleA.

[Sho Nuff]

I'm just wondering if 13 and 14 have done irreparable damage to the franchise. It strikes me that if you tried to reboot it as just "FINAL FANTASY" then people would get it confused with the spinoffs 

[Bebpo]

I'm just wondering if 13 and 14 have done irreparable damage to the franchise. It strikes me that if you tried to reboot it as just "FINAL FANTASY" then people would get it confused with the spinoffs 

You mean more so than 8 (hated by half the fanbase for having a terrible plot with terrible characters and a kooky combat engine), 9 (hated by half the fanbase for being slow and forgettable and starring a monkey), 10 (hated by half the fanbase for being too linear and about a jock named TIDUS), 11 (hated by half the fanbase for being an MMO and later for not being WoW), and 12 (hated by half the fanbase for being too western)?

Every FF since 8 has received major hate by a large portion of people.  Plus tons of people hate FF7, but that's mainly because it's popular and they hate anything popular.

[demi]

uh. ff12 should be hated because it was too mmo-like. i wouldnt call it western.

[Himu]

Bebpo, expand your vocab beyond "hate" and "love".

I'd wager most FF's since 7 are liked by most people who are FF fans and most have good things to say about FF8-10 even though they're not exactly universally lauded or praised, they're still widely regarded as fantastic games of their era. There is no denying this.

FF11, too, was a very big success at one point in time and most of its "hate" stems from the fact that many of its problems constitute slow mmo play such as the party-focused structure.

Although FF12 received a hefty amount of criticism by certain groups of people, these people are in a minority. MOST people loved FF12, especially the press.

FF10-2 (undeservedly), FF13, and FF14 however are in a completely different category.

"Well, every FF is hated!" No, they are not. FF13 isn't even a shit game. It's just completely by the numbers and average. However, it has had the biggest FF fallout I've ever seen. Until FF14 that is. Those two games will do damage to the series, I bet you. No amount of S-E and Wada damage control will stop that from happening.

[Himu]

Speaking of FF13



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23790179&postcount=1

Through the focus group we conducted (mentioned in the "wrong" section), we found that, contrary to expectations, the game was received very well by Western players. Also, both Japanese and Western players place emphasis on the story and battles, meaning that the style we focused on with Final Fantasy XIII was accepted after all.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[demi]

i'd agree. more story and battles plz. ff12 exploration was snooze

[TripleA]

Speaking of FF13



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23790179&postcount=1

Through the focus group we conducted (mentioned in the "wrong" section), we found that, contrary to expectations, the game was received very well by Western players. Also, both Japanese and Western players place emphasis on the story and battles, meaning that the style we focused on with Final Fantasy XIII was accepted after all.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Raban]

I received it well. I'm western. AND I'm a player

[Great Rumbler]

RPGs that don't have exploration in them can just go right ahead and die.

[Raban]

[SantaC]

When was the last time a Final Fantasy game was interesting, compelling, well-written and fun to play? Like 15 years ago. Final Fantasy 6 was the end of it.

I'll never get the FF7 fanboys- What the fuck is that game even about?

FF7 was essentially the first 'epic' console game.

Wrong. FF6 was the first epic console game. When playing this game I had no idea that the production value would be this good for a snes game.