Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[brawndolicious]

I'm a gun nut myself, and I hate people who are against using it. But I think you should go under psychological investigation before your allowed to be near one, some people own them for all the wrong reasons.

I don't think that would work, anybody who wants a gun can probably regurgitate the right answer for a psyche exam.  The system is obviously fucked up that somebody like this guy could get glock with a 30 round magazine with just $500 bucks and a phone background check.  It's not like there's any real restrictions at the moment.

I say just put a minimum limit on gun size that effectively bans handguns or anything that is concealable.  Those guns make up the vast majority of murders and obviously a criminal or just any random psycho would have a problem actually using a gun that isn't concealable.  I'm even all right with having assault rifles as those cost several thousand dollars and are impossible to hide on your person.

[Phoenix Dark]

The feds are reportedly probing whether shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner has ties to an anti-Semitic, anti-government hate group that has ads for tea party organizations on its website.

A Department of Homeland Security memo quoted by Fox News says the agency is looking into whether Loughner is “possibly linked” to the fanatical group American Renaissance.

The group promotes views that are “anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-ZOG (person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation Occupation Government), anti-Semitic,” the memo says.

It’s not immediately clear that Loughner is actually a member.

Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, the target of Loughner’s firing frenzy, is “the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the U.S. government. She was also opposite the group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate,” according the memo.

The group’s website features what appear to be paid advertisements for tea party versions of the “don’t tread on me” flag.

Jared Taylor, editor of American Renaissance, made clear in an interview with Fox News that the group considers itself a think tank of sorts with a conservative circular that’s available by subscription.

Asked about the memo, he said, “That is complete nonsense. I have absolutely no idea what DHS is talking about.”

He told the cable channel that his group checked subscriber lists for its circular and found no record of Loughner subscribing or attending events.

Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project, described the American Renaissance’s journal as a “kind of white-collar, white supremicists outlet, better described as white nationalists” that is read by “pseudo intellectuals” and “academic racists.”

He said the group focuses on race and IQ issues, specifically that African Americans are not as intelligent as whites.

The group had a debate about whether they should also concentrate on Jews, but the majority “was not into that,” Potok said.

“Jared Taylor is not an anti-Semite,” Potok said

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47308.html#ixzz1AYwq9Bxt

Given this guy's mental illness and loner personality he fits the profile of someone who'd be targeted by some type of violent group for lone wolf activity; in his videos he suggests he was in the military, which would make him an even bigger target. I know he wasn't in the military, but he told people he had been.

If that is true we could be looking at a conspiracy

[drew]

Yeah this is funny. Guns to protect yourself . They're much better at killing you, the vast majority of gun deaths are either murders or suicides. America smh

spoken like a true european, dude, you don't know how to handle a firearm, there are four rules that if you follow - safety will be achieved, and you wouldn't be able to spit out ONE of those rules even if i put a GUN to YOUR head.  maybe you shouldn't speak only of statistics in an area that in the real world you have zero experience in

[Dickie Dee]

Did drew just dare someone to recite gun safety under duress of him putting a GUN TO HIS HEAD

[drew]

[drew]

you don't even know me dude, you might think you do, but you don't

at all

[drew]

in fact if you knew my motivations you would never say shit like that about me - i hate random public shooters more than anything else in this world, HATE, they should just blow their brains out at home and save everyone else the trouble. they are the reason im interested in CCW in the first place.  in regards to this shooting i am barely politically motivated enough to vote as it is, so do you really think i'd ever be motivated enough to pull the trigger on someone for that reason, REALLY?!

no, seriously answer that, because i want to know if you are an idiot

[Shaka Khan]

Calm down dude, you sound like you're about to shoot someone.

[drew]

 

[FatalT]

Drew is so easy to get riled up. I miss being in irc with him.

[Boogie]

spoken like a true european, dude, you don't know how to handle a firearm, there are four rules that if you follow - safety will be achieved,

Pretty sure the four rules won't stop murderous psychopaths from killing innocents.

[huckleberry]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[drew]

Pretty sure the four rules won't stop murderous psychopaths from killing innocents.

yeah

but he was referring to someone owning a gun for protection, claiming that the mere presence of a gun in a house puts the lives of those inside at danger, which at least in my case is rendered mute by the use of a trigger lock which basically turns my cz into a six hundred dollar hammer

Drew is so easy to get riled up. I miss being in irc with him.

miss you too buddy, and viz and everyone...IdleRC 2011

[T234]

CZ?! I THOUGHT YOU HAD TASTE IN GUNS DREW

[drew]

...really?

thats like the opposite opinion from everyone i show so far

[naff]

Well, I'm not European. I'm a New Zealander, and I've used guns for hunting, I've owned rifles and a shotgun. I just think pistols and semi-auto/auto rifles are weapons made for killing humans that lack any other pragmatic purpose. And yeah, I think the American mentality about having guns for safety is distinguished mentally-challenged. Statistics for US gun deaths back up my claims. Go check out CDC's website (the wisqars stats part). Don't need to know about gun safety to understand statistics.

[T234]

Ever seen a SPAS 12 in person, drew?

[drew]

no.

why?

[T234]

If you're gonna buy guns, you got to learn to search. 6 bills buys a lot of firepower if you know where to look.

[Boogie]

but he was referring to someone owning a gun for protection, claiming that the mere presence of a gun in a house puts the lives of those inside at danger, which at least in my case is rendered mute by the use of a trigger lock which basically turns my cz into a six hundred dollar hammer

And yet I'm still pretty sure that the statistics bear out that a legal gun owner is more likely to use his gun to kill himself and/or others than he is to use it defending himself or his property....

but don't let those pesky stats get in the way of your ideology....

[drew]

oh, i know, i actually went in for a ruger sr9 which is $400, i guess never walk into a gun shop with more money than you intend to spend.  out of all the pistols i held which included a s&w m&p, glock 19, ria 1911, cz p07, and a used ruger p94 with cali 10 rnd mags - the cz phantom felt the best in my hand

i was looking for a pistol so anything else was out of the question, the next gun i'm going to get is probably an ak74 because i need a rifle for the run n guns i go to every month, im looking into century arms which has one for $400

[T234]

Come to think of it, I once saw somebody buy a Glock 18 (the full-auto machine-pistol) with 2 33 round mags for $700 once. In public, on the streets of America, with a police officer literally standing next to him.

 

[drew]

the place i went to had some class 3 items including pistols equipped with silencers but you werent even allowed to hold them

[ManaByte]

Come to think of it, I once saw somebody buy a Glock 18 (the full-auto machine-pistol) with 2 33 round mags for $700 once. In public, on the streets of America, with a police officer literally standing next to him.

 

Depends on the State really. In Arizona you can legally walk down the street with an AR-15 slung over your shoulder. You also no longer need a permit there for concealed carry.

[drew]

yeah but it doesnt depend on the state when it comes to class 3, no if ands or buts about it, fully automatic anything is illegal unless you are le or mil

[Boogie]

yeah but it doesnt depend on the state when it comes to class 3, no if ands or buts about it, fully automatic anything is illegal unless you are le or mil

and you sound terribly disappointed by that...

[drew]

dude why do you insist on being so aggro towards me? im just sitting here shooting the shit with some people and yet you feel compelled to crack a zinger.

[Stoney Mason]

America is what it is. That battle for gun control has been mostly lost and its never going to change (or not going to change anytime in the forseeable future) despite most of the statistics that say having all these guns around or so easily available probably isn't a good idea.

I love guns in videogames. Not so much in real life when I see all the knuckleheads who actually tend to own them (not aimed at anyone in this thread). But its the second ammendent. We need all these guns lest the King of England tries to take back our country.

[Boogie]

dude why do you insist on being so aggro towards me? im just sitting here shooting the shit with some people and yet you feel compelled to crack a zinger.

That's "aggro" towards you?

 I defer to Teh Business' opinion on that point.

I think I'm going to go through your post history and log everything before you snap and kill people.  It's the smart thing to do....

[Beardo]

but he was referring to someone owning a gun for protection, claiming that the mere presence of a gun in a house puts the lives of those inside at danger, which at least in my case is rendered mute by the use of a trigger lock which basically turns my cz into a six hundred dollar hammer

And yet I'm still pretty sure that the statistics bear out that a legal gun owner is more likely to use his gun to kill himself and/or others than he is to use it defending himself or his property....

but don't let those pesky stats get in the way of your ideology....

And yet, I'm pretty sure that both those statistics are astronomically dwarfed by the amount of people who own guns whom nothing ever happens at all.

[drew]

knock yourself out bro, hey maybe after that you and the biz can get together and compare uniforms

[Boogie]

On topic, it drives me absolutely bonkers, the complete lack of introspection offered by the Conservative Right Wing on something like this.

Though we can never know what is going on inside their head personally, everything we see is that their instinct is just to tuck their heads and charge....Even though, as has been noted by others, Palin's first instinct is to scrub her website....if you've done nothing wrong, why edit your material?

But, of course, those are not the questions you are going to see on CNN...or the rest of the "Liberal Media"  (that's for you, Manabyte, you stupid fucker)

I would give an unquestioned sum of money to be inside Palin's head after an event like this....I cannot comprehend how the Right Wing of American Politics can experience something like this and decide for itself "FUCK THIS, LET'S GO ON OFFENCE" instead of thinking seriously on this topic....Where is the conservative version of Olbermann on this subject?  Oh, right, It's David Frum, who I can respect, but will nonetheless be ostracized by the Right for his balanced view....

[Beardo]

Though we can never know what is going on inside their head personally, everything we see is that their instinct is just to tuck their heads and charge....Even though, as has been noted by others, Palin's first instinct is to scrub her website....if you've done nothing wrong, why edit your material?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249273

Shortly after news broke of the attempted murder of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., the left-leaning blog Daily Kos was swift to scrub its post from a Tucson writer explaining how the congresswoman was now "dead to me."

One of the blog's diary writers, identifying himself as BoyBlue, had written a post only two days before the shooting titled "My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!"

[Boogie]

And yet, I'm pretty sure that both those statistics are astronomically dwarfed by the amount of people who own guns whom nothing ever happens at all.

If we're going by the abstract stats, your homicide rate is 4x that of ours.....but keep thinking that your gun culture has nothing to do with that.  I'll be laughing at you for it, as a law enforcement official who doesn't feel naked wandering around unarmed off duty.

[Boogie]

knock yourself out bro, hey maybe after that you and the biz can get together and compare uniforms

That's hardly a contest.  My uni blows whatever service he was in out of the water.

Either way, we both agree that you're a crazy fucker, so I'm not sure what your point was...

[Phoenix Dark]

Cute Beardo. The author of that post deleted it himself, the mods had nothing to do with it. He has since posted and apologized for his language. But carry on

[Boogie]

As an aside, for you RW motherfuckers, I'm sure you remember when the FBI leaked a warning about Right Wing domestic terrorism...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7100318.ece

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_3_68/ai_54376707/pg_6/

Of course, when this info leaked, the Right Wing went Batshit Crazy, saying that the FBI's warning was politically motivated, blah blah blagh....


And then...

You had the Oakland shooter....and the Michigan crazies that were foiled by an FBI sting.....and then the shooting this weekend.

And the Right Wing Republican MOTHERFUCKERS continue to spout their bullshit, because nothing matters to them other than their talking points.

Here's a video....

It's about the extreme Right-Wing anti-Government movement of the "Sovereign Citizens"...it exists in the 'States and Canada....

And these motherfuckers have no compunction about shooting cops dead for no reason other than their ideology.....What do you say about this video, drew and Manabyte?



To you two, it's just an abstract video, like a thousand others you've viewed online...It doesn't mean anything.  To me...It's a reminder of the risks of the job, of the threats I might face EVERY SINGLE DAY.....and to all the shit you spout online, this outdoes it....every time.....

[Himu]

America is what it is. That battle for gun control has been mostly lost and its never going to change (or not going to change anytime in the forseeable future) despite most of the statistics that say having all these guns around or so easily available probably isn't a good idea.

I love guns in videogames. Not so much in real life when I see all the knuckleheads who actually tend to own them (not aimed at anyone in this thread). But its the second ammendent. We need all these guns lest the King of England tries to take back our country.

 

[Great Rumbler]

I'm not going to take away somebody's right to own a gun [unless they're like a convicted felon or something], but there NEEDS to be gun control laws in place. Unlimited gun ownership of any and every gun you care to own is insane. Period.

[Stoney Mason]

America is what it is. That battle for gun control has been mostly lost and its never going to change (or not going to change anytime in the forseeable future) despite most of the statistics that say having all these guns around or so easily available probably isn't a good idea.

I love guns in videogames. Not so much in real life when I see all the knuckleheads who actually tend to own them (not aimed at anyone in this thread). But its the second ammendent. We need all these guns lest the King of England tries to take back our country.

 

Simpsons did it.

MARGE
No! No one's using this gun! The TV said you're fifty-eight percent more likely to shoot a family member than an intruder!

HOMER
TV said that? But I have to have a gun! It's in the Constitution!

LISA
Dad! The Second Amendment is just a remnant from revolutionary days. It has no meaning today!

HOMER
You couldn't be more wrong, Lisa. If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here any time he wants, and start shoving you around. (he starts pushing Lisa) Do you want that? Huh? Do you?

LISA
No...

HOMER
All right then.

He reaches for the gun.

[Beardo]

Not to pee in your liberal cereal boggie, but nothing has come out saying the shooter was "Right-wing"

In fact the only thing that comes up is this.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

A classmate of the man accused of shooting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords this morning describes him as "left wing" and a "pot head" in a series of posts on Twitter this afternoon.

Caitie Parker did not immediately respond to our request for an interview, but her "tweets" in the hours after the shooting paint a picture of Jared Loughner as a substance-abusing loner who had met Giffords before the shooting. She says, Loughner described the congresswoman as "stupid and unintelligent."

Who knows if this is true.

[drew]

beardo do you believe in the new world order?

[Phoenix Dark]

Actually some things have come out suggesting he's far right wing. Once again, when I say "far fight wing" I'm not suggesting he's a republican. Once you get too far left or right you go beyond politics into nut territory.

His videos mention an affinity for gold and silver currency, he accused a classmate of murder when she mentioned she had an abortion, the FBI thinks might might have ties to a far hate group...yeah.

Boogie's post sums it up. The right threw a fit when that report on right wing violence, commissioned under the Bush administration I might add, was released. And yet over the last year and a half we've seen multiple cases of right wing violence and an increase in militia activity. Not to mention the unprecedented spike in death threats Obama received during his first year in office.

[Stoney Mason]

For what its worth I know nothing about this specific shooter. Outside of the initial day of coverage I doubt I will follow the story at all so whatever his background is I doubt I will follow it enough to learn the truth. To paraphrase Chris Rock there is something to be said sometimes for the idea that sometimes crazy people are just crazy.

I do know why some people would be concerned by potential violence connected to a lot of recent extreme ranting by some groups because of videos like this that imply some sort of veiled threat. Or the comments like Texas is going to secede like that one politician made. When you start saying crazy shit, it does worry some people that potentially unhinged people could take this sort of stuff as a call to arms.  

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Beardo]

I'll agree that rhetoric on all sides left, right, up, down are all out of hand. I can't even watch the news or listen the radio anymore. I've pretty much given up on caring .

[Boogie]

I'll agree that rhetoric on all sides left, right, up, down are all out of hand. I can't even watch the news or listen the radio anymore. I've pretty much given up on caring .

Oh sure, you make sure a claim, but it falls silent for those of us for face the true threat every day...make your "protests"...seee if I give a fuck....

[Beardo]

wut?

[Phoenix Dark]

Like Prole said earlier (and you guys ignored) is that the shooter seems to occupy an extreme fringe position where the traditional left/right political dichotomy breaks down. 

Traditional, sure. Which is why I've been pointing out there's a line you cross the further left or right you go where you fall into Timothy McVeigh (or a far left equivalent) territory.

[drew]

wut?

boogie is a cop and that means that his opinion is better than yours

[Phoenix Dark]

Kelly's passive-aggressiveness during the first half of this interview gives me Nancy Grace vibes
[youtube=560,345]wB5NgR8j9a4[/youtube]

[Yoritomo]

It just boils down to fanaticism.  Religion, politics, crime, anything.  That fear of shit permeates everything in our society.  Whether it's fear of the gov't, brown people, rising tides, hell, corporations, meat, rich people, child molesters, video games, guns, bird flu, etc, etc... ad infinitum.  Most nutjobs with guns (and I'm not saying everyone with guns is a nutjob, I own plenty of em... although that's probably a bad example) would have loved to have been there and shot the bad guy and saved the day.  When we let relatively isolated tragedy curtail speech, permit emergency legislation, and alter how we view each other as humans we lose the best pieces or our own society.

With that said I hate Sarah Palin and hope she is devoured alive by her youngest child.  When that happens I will delete this post and not explain myself.

[brawndolicious]

It just boils down to fanaticism.  Religion, politics, crime, anything.  That fear of shit permeates everything in our society.  Whether it's fear of the gov't, brown people, rising tides, hell, corporations, meat, rich people, child molesters, video games, guns, bird flu, etc, etc... ad infinitum.  Most nutjobs with guns (and I'm not saying everyone with guns is a nutjob, I own plenty of em... although that's probably a bad example) would have loved to have been there and shot the bad guy and saved the day.  When we let relatively isolated tragedy curtail speech, permit emergency legislation, and alter how we view each other as humans we lose the best pieces or our own society.

With that said I hate Sarah Palin and hope she is devoured alive by her youngest child.  When that happens I will delete this post and not explain myself.

Media, politics, and this guy's mental state doesn't matter at all to me.  This type of incident just shows to people how normal violent criminals, like psychopaths that kill for money and not for fringe political beliefs, can get these weapons and magazines and THAT is what should motivate people to want a ban on semiautomatic handguns and large magazines imo.

That's a longshot but best thing I can imagine is that Giffords comes out of the hospital swinging at how there's no real restriction on anybody's ability to get a gun.  At least that will raise some support.

[Yoritomo]

Media, politics, and this guy's mental state doesn't matter at all to me.  This type of incident just shows to people how normal violent criminals, like psychopaths that kill for money and not for fringe political beliefs, can get these weapons and magazines and THAT is what should motivate people to want a ban on semiautomatic handguns and large magazines imo.

That's a longshot but best thing I can imagine is that Giffords comes out of the hospital swinging at how there's no real restriction on anybody's ability to get a gun.  At least that will raise some support.

Licensing would be good.  Make the basic license to own a private firearm the same as the CCW qualifications that require range qualification.  Violent crime has been going down for the last 15 years or more, that includes after the sunset of the specified weapon and high capacity magazine ban.   

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I don't know why some people thought the teabagger movement would somehow have this moment of clarity where they realized that their increasing infusion of violence into rhetoric would possibly cause increases of right wing terrorism and therefore should be avoided or toned down.

It's a group that is probably more likely to blame Obama for the shooting spree than themselves.  "Well, if he wasn't such a muslin and palled around with terrorists then this never would have happened!"

[Brehvolution]

It's a group that is probably more likely to blame Obama for the shooting spree than themselves.  "Well, if he wasn't such a muslin and palled around with terrorists then this never would have happened!"

It' not probably, it is exactly what is going on right now. There will be no admission of anything done wrong by the right. They want this stuff to happen. The right doesn't talk to just hear themselves. They give out very specific marching orders, wait for a "patriot" to carry them out, then wash their hands of any responsibility. Even, blame the other side.
I can only imagine what this guy's brain must be thinking. Thinking he was going to be a martyr for his right wing cause only for them to call him a liberal. 

[Beardo]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte

On November 5, 2009, Maj. Nidal Hasan opened fire at a troop readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, killing 13 people.  Within hours of the killings, the world knew that Hasan reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting, visited websites associated with Islamist violence, wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings, considered U.S. forces his enemy, opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam, and told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God."  There was ample evidence, in other words, that the Ft. Hood attack was an act of Islamist violence.

Nevertheless, public officials, journalists, and commentators were quick to caution that the public should not "jump to conclusions" about Hasan's motive.  CNN, in particular, became a forum for repeated warnings that the subject should be discussed with particular care.

If you say that extremist muslims caused 9/11 you are a racist bigot. But if you sat that conservatives caused this shooting, then you are a journalist.

SMH at liberal feggits.

[Beardo]

It's a group that is probably more likely to blame Obama for the shooting spree than themselves.  "Well, if he wasn't such a muslin and palled around with terrorists then this never would have happened!"

It' not probably, it is exactly what is going on right now. There will be no admission of anything done wrong by the right. They want this stuff to happen. The right doesn't talk to just hear themselves. They give out very specific marching orders, wait for a "patriot" to carry them out, then wash their hands of any responsibility. Even, blame the other side.
I can only imagine what this guy's brain must be thinking. Thinking he was going to be a martyr for his right wing cause only for them to call him a liberal. 

Conservatives wants shootings to happen but yet somehow distance themselves from it... Riiiight.

[Brehvolution]

That's the point. That is what is happening. You are even doing it yourself!

Carry on with your deflection of blame and false equivalences. It's the conservatard way!

[Beardo]

That's the point. That is what is happening. You are even doing it yourself!

Carry on with your deflection of blame and false equivalences. It's the conservatard way!

I'm doing what? Show me where it says he was a rightwing teabagger that worshiped Palin. You can't because it's not ture. You live in a fantasy world where all bad things are done by people on a certain side of the issue (whatever side you are not on).

[Brehvolution]

That is because people on the same side tend not to shoot each other!