The Official Psychoanalysis GAF Thread

[tiesto]

Yo that might actually work for a little while if promoted right. Molly Water is a big buzz thing in hip hop and nobody's bought it yet.

Bottled water is an asshole business venture though, hope he dies and all that.

I can see something named Mollywater making a big "splash"(no pun intended) in the EDM community as well...

[Mr. Gundam]

BruiserBear is an unbearable mongoloid.

He's also not very bright, creating a thread bragging about pulling off a strategic foreclosure even though he can afford his mortgage payments.

[Broseidon]

BruiserBear is an unbearable mongoloid.

Fact.

[Sman]

[demi]

lol...

[Himu]

given she's black you should have put 3000 mg (per serving) of sodium on the nutrition facts label

[DCharlieJP]

Go back and look at how Sven treated Monster Hunter and how he lied to the fans and acted like it wouldnt come over. The guy needs to be fired immediately along with Reggie.

I love it when people get all fire happy - especially over BUT THEY LIED TO US WE DEMAND THE TRUTH!

[Tasty]

Actually Sven was annoying because he kept giving teases of hope when anyone sane had give up. That's what was so unfuriating about him. But all is forgiven now.

[Don Flamenco]

the things people think other people should be fired over...it's not a friendship, it's a business.  the industry doesn't run on the same rules that protect emotions.  So their lies are actually good in those cases and are what the company wanted them to do.

[DCharlieJP]

If everyone knew every little bit of info then people would lose all the fun and drama of the megatons - also people like this have no idea how working in a job where you are under NDAs work. Hell - wife and I have stuff we work on that we aren't allowed to discuss with each other - I'd assume in these people's world that would be divorce worthy.

[Don Flamenco]

it lends credence to the "it's all teens and shut-ins" theory.  Expecting 100% honesty in the world and the inability to separate "untruth" or "guarding the truth for a reason" from "EVIL LIES!!!" is a blaring sign of immaturity.

pay attention to people who use relationship language when they talk about this stuff, it's weird and pretty prevalent on gaf.

[Momo]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506541&page=22

lots of insiders on GAF all of a sudden

[Tasty]

On the other hand, NDAs as a concept are almost as dumb as the whole 'MEGATON!!!!' culture that's infected the gaming industry (coinciding with the rise of AAA Hollywoodization.)

"IF THE ANNOUNCEMENT DOESN'T BUKKAKE MY FACE IN THEN THE GAME FAILS"

See also: The Dead Island effect.

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50673

 

[DCharlieJP]

On the other hand, NDAs as a concept are almost as dumb as the whole 'MEGATON!!!!' culture that's infected the gaming industry (coinciding with the rise of AAA Hollywoodization.)

Believe me - there are a whole ton of reasons for NDAs. It's not all Secret Squirrel for the sake of it

[Mr. Gundam]

NDAs make perfect sense. It's just a bunch of vidyagames to the fanboys who demand information immediately, but this is a business after all.

[FStop7]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50673

 

why are you reading threads about windows XP themes from 2005

[hampster]

I think most of the things some gaffers think are under NDA just don't exist which is why they aren't talked about. Leading up to the WiiU launch people were asking "where are all the new game announcements" and answer was always they're under NDA until E3, Nintendo Direct, Launch, etc...

[Vertigo]

NDA's in of themselves are not a problem. A lot of it for me is 'insiders' and journalists not being able to control themselves. So they post on game forums and on their Twitter page about this real cool thing they've just seen but you peasants will have to wait 4-5 weeks or in some cases months to see it.

[Mr. Gundam]

NDA's in of themselves are not a problem. A lot of it for me is 'insiders' and journalists not being able to control themselves. So they post on game forums and on their Twitter page about this real cool thing they've just seen but you peasants will have to wait 4-5 weeks or in some cases months to see it.

That is a problem. I used to do lots of game testing at Microsoft during the OG Xbox era and had to sign lots of NDAs for games. Some got released, some have never seen the light of day. I still don't think I can talk about some of that stuff.

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50673

 

why are you reading threads about windows XP themes from 2005

Missed a number lol.

[FStop7]

The Nigerian really likes that Trinidad James track a lot

It is pretty catchy and all

[Steve Contra]

On the other hand, NDAs as a concept are almost as dumb as the whole 'MEGATON!!!!' culture that's infected the gaming industry (coinciding with the rise of AAA Hollywoodization.)

  Do nerds not know why publicly traded companies have NDAs?

[Mr. Gundam]

On the other hand, NDAs as a concept are almost as dumb as the whole 'MEGATON!!!!' culture that's infected the gaming industry (coinciding with the rise of AAA Hollywoodization.)

  Do nerds not know why publicly traded companies have NDAs?

Nope, same reason they demand every single demo at TGS/E3 gets uploaded to XBL/PSN immediately.

And then when one randomly does, they freak out over the bugs.

[Tasty]

I understand why businesses do it, but I don't understand why people defend it. I also think it's an outdated concept.

Doesn't help companies are usually dicks when their games leak. Big deal. The industry needs more transparency.

[Mr. Gundam]

So companies should just announce everything as they start development? Yeah, that will go well when 80% of those titles are canceled during the pre-production phase.

[Steve Youngblood]

I understand why businesses do it, but I don't understand why people defend it. I also think it's an outdated concept.

Andrex, you always have and will continue to come across as an entitled whiner who is just upset that he doesn't get to be part of the Insiders Club. I hope you realize that.

[ToxicAdam]

President of the Fanclub-syndrome.

[Tasty]

I understand why businesses do it, but I don't understand why people defend it. I also think it's an outdated concept.

Andrex, you always have and will continue to come across as an entitled whiner who is just upset that he doesn't get to be part of the Insiders Club. I hope you realize that.

It's pretty much my schtick at this point anyways. May as well take it all the way.

[Tasty]

So companies should just announce everything as they start development? Yeah, that will go well when 80% of those titles are canceled during the pre-production phase.

And the downside will be...? We know more about games? Unseen64 is awesome for this reason.

Boo hoo, poor investors making decisions based on actual more info.

[Steve Contra]

I understand why businesses do it, but I don't understand why people defend it. I also think it's an outdated concept.

Doesn't help companies are usually dicks when their games leak. Big deal. The industry needs more transparency.

So you don't understand at all why businesses do it.  Got it, you should have just said so.

[Steve Youngblood]

And the downside will be...? We know more about games?

Boo hoo, poor investors making decisions based on actual more info.

The downside is that it may be detrimental to their bottom-line to have information disclosed about strategy going forward before they are ready to announce it.

[Shadow Mod]

How are NDAs outdated? What.

[Tasty]

I understand why businesses do it, but I don't understand why people defend it. I also think it's an outdated concept.

Doesn't help companies are usually dicks when their games leak. Big deal. The industry needs more transparency.

So you don't understand at all why businesses do it.  Got it, you should have just said so.

Obviously companies shouldn't announce anything until it's actually on store shelves. Will better protect against the rampant IP theft plagueing the industry.

[Tasty]

And the downside will be...? We know more about games?

Boo hoo, poor investors making decisions based on actual more info.

The downside is that it may be detrimental to their bottom-line to have information disclosed about strategy going forward before they are ready to announce it.

"may be"

I've never seen a company financially hurt by a non-cancelled game being announced too early. Duke Nukem Forever? FFV13? You think anyone would give a damn about them if they were announced and released in the same year?

As for cancelled games, isn't it in the best interest of gamers to have all the information available?

[Steve Youngblood]

How are NDAs outdated? What.

Andrex is just applying the concept of the need for transparency in governance to corporations. And he's doing so not because of any legitimate arguments he has about why that should legitimately be the case, but because he doesn't like it when folks like DCharlie and Van Cruncheon tease stuff they know but aren't allowed to talk about. It's not fair that they know stuff and he doesn't, gosh darn it! This is the information age!

And the downside will be...? We know more about games?

Boo hoo, poor investors making decisions based on actual more info.

The downside is that it may be detrimental to their bottom-line to have information disclosed about strategy going forward before they are ready to announce it.

"may be"

I've never seen a company financially hurt by a non-cancelled game being announced too early. Duke Nukem Forever? FFV13? You think anyone would give a damn about them if they were announced and released in the same year?

As for cancelled games, isn't it in the best interest of gamers to have all the information available?

What the fuck are you even talking about? You're using very specific and narrow examples in some poor attempt to make a broad point.

[Tasty]

How are NDAs outdated? What.

Andrex is just applying the concept of the need for transparency in governance to corporations. And he's doing so not because of any legitimate arguments he has about why that should legitimately be the case, but because he doesn't like it when folks like DCharlie and Van Cruncheon tease stuff they know but aren't allowed to talk about. It's not fair that they know stuff and he doesn't, gosh darn it! This is the information age!

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

[Steve Youngblood]

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

I'm not pro-corporation. However, I fail to understand why their responsibility in this relationship where they produce goods they very much want me to consume extends to me deserving to know what's going on in their board room. There is lots of bullshit that goes on that I consider anti-consumer. You are failing spectacularly at demonstrating how failing to be completely transparent in what they are planning is one of them.

[Tasty]

What the fuck are you even talking about? You're using very specific and narrow examples in some poor attempt to make a broad point.

Then please enlighten me using better examples. Clearly, if I'm 100% in the wrong it shouldn't be very hard to come up with something so iron-clad I renounce my position on the spot.

[Mr. Gundam]

Clearly Andrex is so incredibly business savvy, we should just rerwite the way corporations run themselves. Board members and shareholders will be delighted at his revolutionary new way of operating.

This isn't exclusive to your precious gaming industry. My wife works for large multi-national company, and they have NDAs for a very good reason.

[Steve Youngblood]

What the fuck are you even talking about? You're using very specific and narrow examples in some poor attempt to make a broad point.

Then please enlighten me using better examples. Clearly, if I'm 100% in the wrong it shouldn't be very hard to come up with something so iron-clad I renounce my position on the spot.

Your case is that they owe us complete transparency, and you've failed to elucidate why. Why don't you make your case?

[Tasty]

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

I'm not pro-corporation. However, I fail to understand why their responsibility in this relationship where they produce goods they very much want me to consume extends to me deserving to know what's going on in their board room. There is lots of bullshit that goes on that I consider anti-consumer. You are failing spectacularly at demonstrating how failing to be completely transparent in what they are planning is one of them.

I never said it was anti-consumer, I said it was pro-corporation, which it is. It's defending corporate practices that have no benefit (as opposed to negative benefit) to consumers.

[Mr. Gundam]

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

I'm not pro-corporation. However, I fail to understand why their responsibility in this relationship where they produce goods they very much want me to consume extends to me deserving to know what's going on in their board room. There is lots of bullshit that goes on that I consider anti-consumer. You are failing spectacularly at demonstrating how failing to be completely transparent in what they are planning is one of them.

I never said it was anti-consumer, I said it was pro-corporation, which it is. It's defending corporate practices that have no benefit (as opposed to negative benefit) to consumers.

Then voice your opinion with your money. If you don't like it, don't buy their products.

[Tasty]

Clearly Andrex is so incredibly business savvy, we should just rerwite the way corporations run themselves. Board members and shareholders will be delighted at his revolutionary new way of operating.

This isn't exclusive to your precious gaming industry. My wife works for large multi-national company, and they have NDAs for a very good reason.

I never implied it was, just that it's a problem in he games industry specifically.

To use an example, patents are crucial and necessary in some fields like medicine, but completely toxic in others like software.

[Tasty]

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

I'm not pro-corporation. However, I fail to understand why their responsibility in this relationship where they produce goods they very much want me to consume extends to me deserving to know what's going on in their board room. There is lots of bullshit that goes on that I consider anti-consumer. You are failing spectacularly at demonstrating how failing to be completely transparent in what they are planning is one of them.

I never said it was anti-consumer, I said it was pro-corporation, which it is. It's defending corporate practices that have no benefit (as opposed to negative benefit) to consumers.

Then voice your opinion with your money. If you don't like it, don't buy their products.

Such a weaksauce copout thing to post. I'm not taking my ball and running home just because you can't convince me that NDA's aren't outdated in the games industry.

If you're not interested in engaging in a discussion, then don't, but don't try throw your hands up and say "Welp, it's the way it is, deal with it!" I know it's the way it is, that's why I'm talking about it. Dumb ass.

[Steve Youngblood]

I never implied it was, just that it's a problem in he games industry specifically.

To use an example, patents are crucial and necessary in some fields like medicine, but completely toxic in others like software.

Can you precisely define why it's a problem in the games industry? I have not seen you make your case other than to invoke the ideal of this being the information age, and if info is out there, we should all have access to it. I have not seen you explain why this should or needs to be the case in any sort of convincing fashion. As is, you just come across as the guy at the table who doesn't like people whispering in sight of him. "Hey, tell one tell all! Am I right!?"

[Mr. Gundam]

And somehow this makes the entire argument illegitimate? Ad hominem incarnate.

Never knew you could be so pro-corporation, Stevey boy.

I'm not pro-corporation. However, I fail to understand why their responsibility in this relationship where they produce goods they very much want me to consume extends to me deserving to know what's going on in their board room. There is lots of bullshit that goes on that I consider anti-consumer. You are failing spectacularly at demonstrating how failing to be completely transparent in what they are planning is one of them.

I never said it was anti-consumer, I said it was pro-corporation, which it is. It's defending corporate practices that have no benefit (as opposed to negative benefit) to consumers.

Then voice your opinion with your money. If you don't like it, don't buy their products.

Such a weaksauce copout thing to post. I'm not taking my ball and running home just because you can't convince me that NDA's aren't outdated in the games industry.

If you're not interested in engaging in a discussion, then don't, but don't try throw your hands up and say "Welp, it's the way it is, deal with it!" I know it's the way it is, that's why I'm talking about it. Dumb ass.

You're cute when you're angry.

It's not a cop-out, I'm just not bothered by it like you clearly are.

I'm not a businessperson, nor do I work in the industry. I don't have the answers, but your defense of transparency and "no more NDAs" just seems to be coming from an extremely narrow view of the larger picture.

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46052191&postcount=236

[Tasty]

I never implied it was, just that it's a problem in he games industry specifically.

To use an example, patents are crucial and necessary in some fields like medicine, but completely toxic in others like software.

Can you precisely define why it's a problem in the games industry? I have not seen you make your case other than to invoke the ideal of this being the information age, and if info is out there, we should all have access to it. I have not seen you explain why this should or needs to be the case in any sort of convincing fashion. As is, you just come across as the guy at the table who doesn't like people whispering in sight of him. "Hey, tell one tell all! Am I right!?"

So transparency isn't worth pursuing for its own sake?

The benefits to consumers are negligible in the sense that we've gotten along fine without them since the beginning of the industry. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to improve things.

As it is, I remain thoroughly unconvinced they're necessary for the industry to continue working as-is. I understand they're a useful tool, or maybe were at some point in the past, but it's stifling today. The NDA requirements on console SDKs made sense right after 80s crash, but freely available SDKs for newer platforms shows how out of date the practice is. NDAs had their time and place, but it's long past.

[Steve Youngblood]

So transparency isn't worth pursuing for its own sake?

I don't think that complete, across the board transparency is some sort of inherently great ideal. I'm not sure why I would. If they want me to buy a product, I think it behooves them to make as much information about that product as possible freely available to me. But the strategic planning stage where nothing is officially ironed out? For instance, I can't fathom what kind of legitimate argument I would make right now for arguing that Microsoft and Sony are obligated to disclose information to me about the next Xbox/PS4 that they are disclosing strategically to insiders.

I can make the case that it would be swell of them to do so in order to facilitate me better arguing about the console wars here and at GAF. But that doesn't strike me as a sincere argument in as much as it comes across as me complaining to my mom that it's not fair that I have to wait until Christmas to open my presents.

[Sman]

Is The Nigerian TheBlackStallion?

Yes.

[Steve Contra]

There are specific legal reasons for NDAs, Andrex.  Publicly traded companies have to be very careful about when and how they announce things .  Having NDAs and legal recourse when these are broken is a good way to do this.

[Tasty]

So transparency isn't worth pursuing for its own sake?

I don't think that complete, across the board transparency is some sort of inherently great ideal. I'm not sure why I would. If they want me to buy a product, I think it behooves them to make as much information about that product as possible freely available to me. But the strategic planning stage where nothing is officially ironed out? For instance, I can't fathom what kind of legitimate argument I would make right now for arguing that Microsoft and Sony are obligated to disclose information to me about the next Xbox/PS4 that they are disclosing strategically to insiders.

I can make the case that it would be swell of them to do so in order to facilitate me better arguing about the console wars here and at GAF. But that doesn't strike me as a sincere argument in as much as it comes across as me complaining to my mom that it's not fair that I have to wait until Christmas to open my presents.

The difference being that it's your parents deciding the best time for you to know, instead of a corporation. Defending your parents' actions I generally take as more agreeable than defending a corporation, but, tomato tomato I suppose.

There are specific legal reasons for NDAs, Andrex.  Publicly traded companies have to be very careful about when and how they announce things .  Having NDAs and legal recourse when these are broken is a good way to do this.

If you say so.

[Steve Contra]

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

[Tasty]

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

Or maybe I'm onto something! 

[Steve Contra]

No you're not.  Suppose a company just let out whatever proof of concept, demo, pitch etc. whenever some animator felt it was necessary.  At some point they'd have like 20 games on their plate, including licenses they don't own, tech they haven't licensed etc.  Let's say some investors look at that and say, wow, looks good.  And then financials come out and they're working on a My Little Ponies game for Leapfrog and nothing else and suddenly investors are like what the fuck and they say "well shit, some guy on the internet wanted game news earlier".

[Steve Youngblood]

The difference being that it's your parents deciding the best time for you to know, instead of a corporation. Defending your parents' actions I generally take as more agreeable than defending a corporation, but, tomato tomato I suppose.

The more important point is just that it's not information that I can argue that I need to know. My parents don't owe me an explanation of what they bought me before Christmas. Sony doesn't owe me an explanation about what GPU is going to be in the PS4 or what games they're aiming to have ready for launch right now, as they haven't chosen to officially unveil the PS4.

The other day, I was playing Texas Hold 'Em. That game is such bull shit. The dealer looked to me and said "it's your bet, sir." I just looked back at him stupefied. How the fuck am I supposed to know what to bet when I don't know what cards my opponent has or what's coming?

[Steve Contra]

Hey guys, we've cracked quantum computing!

Wait, I guess I heard that wrong, it's a just a paper someone is writing.  Good thing there's no NDA.

[Tasty]

its just absurd to me to insist that there be transparency in a creative process. Could you even justify that among any other medium? Film maybe.

I would love for the games industry to become even halfway as transparent as film. It's an older industry so they actually have this all (mostly) figured out.

The difference being that it's your parents deciding the best time for you to know, instead of a corporation. Defending your parents' actions I generally take as more agreeable than defending a corporation, but, tomato tomato I suppose.

The more important point is just that it's not information that I can argue that I need to know. My parents don't owe me an explanation of what they bought me before Christmas. Sony doesn't owe me an explanation about what GPU is going to be in the PS4 or what games they're aiming to have ready for launch right now, as they haven't chosen to officially unveil the PS4.

The other day, I was playing Texas Hold 'Em. That game is such bull shit. The dealer looked to me and said "it's your bet, sir." I just looked back at him stupefied. How the fuck am I supposed to know what to bet when I don't know what cards my opponent has or what's coming?

It isn't crucial information in the conventional sense. As I said, we've gotten along fine so far. But I don't think we've gone far enough. I would love to see Sony blog about the different GPUs it was thinking of going with. Then maybe they'd get some feedback to steer them away from something as distinguished mentally-challenged as RSX.

"But then MS will just copy them, or do something better!" I would like to think Sony and Microsoft are knowledgeable enough to know all the possible options in any case. Why would a competitor going with X GPU change anything? It wouldn't. The only instance I could see is one of them choosing not to go with a similar GPU to make ports to competitors more difficult, but there would be pushback there from third parties.

No you're not.  Suppose a company just let out whatever proof of concept, demo, pitch etc. whenever some animator felt it was necessary.  At some point they'd have like 20 games on their plate, including licenses they don't own, tech they haven't licensed etc.  Let's say some investors look at that and say, wow, looks good.  And then financials come out and they're working on a My Little Ponies game for Leapfrog and nothing else and suddenly investors are like what the fuck and they say "well shit, some guy on the internet wanted game news earlier".

Transparency also extends to include honesty on the status of various games in development. It would be up to the investors not to be complete morons and to pay attention, and invest accordingly. That's what they're (ostensibly) paid for, anyways.

[Tasty]

Hey guys, we've cracked quantum computing!

Wait, I guess I heard that wrong, it's a just a paper someone is writing.  Good thing there's no NDA.

You're actually making a good case here.

No NDAs would mean we'd instantly get to know which people are morons that take things at face value.