Author Topic: Steve Jobs (and Apple) Death Watch 2011 (Read 2060 times)

ManaByte · « **on:** February 10, 2011, 05:29:55 PM »

He's apparently in the hospital now.

Apple's stock dived $10 billion in four minutes.

CajoleJuice · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:34:14 PM »

Good thing $10 billion is like 1%

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:35:39 PM »

Whether or not Jobs dies, Manabyte's ability to make threads should have died long, long ago.

Herr Mafflard · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:48:44 PM »

I imagine Steve Jobs would hook himself up to a machine and outlive us all, but live a lonely, stationary existence, controlling his empire in stasis from an incubation pod. Like that one dude in Fallout NV.

Himu · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:57:39 PM »

Good god, leper Manabyte. I mean, even if you don't like Jobs or Apple, what the fuck.

Mr. Gundam · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:59:19 PM »

Stick to your George Lucas cock sucking and UFO worshiping posts. Your nerd hatred shtick is really stupid.

GilloD · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:18:59 PM »

The thing about Apple is that they're incredibly liquid. Yeah, the stock drop sucks, but their cash isn't tied up in the stock valuation. They'll be fine.

Also, Steve Job is like a pretty visionary dude, but at this point there are like 7 billion Apple indoctrinated designers working there. Can no one else really step up? People who work stocks are morons.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:30:52 PM »

no you are moran

Selling a stock when it's high is the whole point of investing.

ManaByte · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:34:42 PM »

Quote from: GilloD on February 10, 2011, 07:18:59 PM

Also, Steve Job is like a pretty visionary dude, but at this point there are like 7 billion Apple indoctrinated designers working there. Can no one else really step up? People who work stocks are morons.

Everyone says he's still the driving force behind Apple. Without him and it'll be the Apple of the 80s again, which is why people freaked the hell out at the rumor of him being in the hospital.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:44:07 PM »

GilloD

before you get upset, allow me to clarify.

You are saying that investors selling off the stock today are undervaluing the company because of this short term news, and that you, GilloD, appreciate that true value of Apple is greater. This is pointless though, since you don't own the stock. The stock is of value to these investors as a way to make money, not to receive validation of their ability to assign value to corporations. Conversely, the ability to accurately assign value to corporations is entirely useless unless you use it to invest (or perhaps by selling your tips as an analyst etc).

Today is a GREAT opportunity to lock in gains, especially for those who agree with you! If they sell high today, the stock drops, they can make all those gains all over again by getting in on the floor when it recovers. There is nothing moronic about 'working' stocks like this, per se - it's only if you mistime the entry and exit points that you lose out. With swings like this though, it's actually relatively easy to make out big, because you have more margin for error. The dumb thing to do would be to hold onto your stock and wait for it to come back up. You haven't MADE any money there at all.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:56:29 PM »

If he dies would it be illegal for Apple not to tell anyone?

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:58:43 PM »

What if Microsoft buys Apple after he dies

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:21:24 PM »

What is Manabyte stopped making stupid threads? It's fun to dream.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2011, 09:18:48 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 10, 2011, 07:56:29 PM

If he dies would it be illegal for Apple not to tell anyone?

yes. that's basic shareholder disclosure.

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2011, 09:39:33 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 10, 2011, 07:44:07 PM

GilloD

before you get upset, allow me to clarify.

You are saying that investors selling off the stock today are undervaluing the company because of this short term news, and that you, GilloD, appreciate that true value of Apple is greater. This is pointless though, since you don't own the stock. The stock is of value to these investors as a way to make money, not to receive validation of their ability to assign value to corporations. Conversely, the ability to accurately assign value to corporations is entirely useless unless you use it to invest (or perhaps by selling your tips as an analyst etc).

Today is a GREAT opportunity to lock in gains, especially for those who agree with you! If they sell high today, the stock drops, they can make all those gains all over again by getting in on the floor when it recovers. There is nothing moronic about 'working' stocks like this, per se - it's only if you mistime the entry and exit points that you lose out. With swings like this though, it's actually relatively easy to make out big, because you have more margin for error. The dumb thing to do would be to hold onto your stock and wait for it to come back up. You haven't MADE any money there at all.

Hold on to what you have and buy some more from the cheap pile, then wait for it all to shoot back up when the next apple product comes out.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:32:03 PM »

wait manabyte hates apple? isnt he constantly saying the iphone is crushing ds and psp? I cant keep up

Diunx · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:50:35 PM »

I'm guessing his steve jobs hate has something to do with pixar.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:57:45 PM »

Quote from: Don Flamenco on February 10, 2011, 09:39:33 PM

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 10, 2011, 07:44:07 PM
GilloD

before you get upset, allow me to clarify.

You are saying that investors selling off the stock today are undervaluing the company because of this short term news, and that you, GilloD, appreciate that true value of Apple is greater. This is pointless though, since you don't own the stock. The stock is of value to these investors as a way to make money, not to receive validation of their ability to assign value to corporations. Conversely, the ability to accurately assign value to corporations is entirely useless unless you use it to invest (or perhaps by selling your tips as an analyst etc).

Today is a GREAT opportunity to lock in gains, especially for those who agree with you! If they sell high today, the stock drops, they can make all those gains all over again by getting in on the floor when it recovers. There is nothing moronic about 'working' stocks like this, per se - it's only if you mistime the entry and exit points that you lose out. With swings like this though, it's actually relatively easy to make out big, because you have more margin for error. The dumb thing to do would be to hold onto your stock and wait for it to come back up. You haven't MADE any money there at all.

Hold on to what you have and buy some more from the cheap pile, then wait for it all to shoot back up when the next apple product comes out.

No offense, but this is also distinguished mentally-challenged. If you believe it's going back up, why on earth would you hold onto it at the high price? Pls explain.

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:16:40 PM »

--Own some apple stock
--Steve Jobs goes in the hospital, stock drops as other people sell off their shares
--buy shares at cheaper stock price, hold on to the shares you had, because you know they'll rebound
--you now own more valuable apple stock than before, worth significantly more.

(i'm guessing here because I've never paid attention to the stock market.)

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:54:18 PM »

Quote from: Don Flamenco on February 10, 2011, 11:16:40 PM

--Own some apple stock
--Steve Jobs goes in the hospital, stock drops as other people sell off their shares
--buy shares at cheaper stock price, hold on to the shares you had, because you know they'll rebound
--you now own more valuable apple stock than before, worth significantly more.

(i'm guessing here because I've never paid attention to the stock market.)

Well, that's basically why it shot back up a bit after the initial drop. Some stockholders panicked and sold off some shares, causing the price to drop sharply. Then some people that believe it would go back up again jumped in and snapped up some shares, causing the price to jump back up.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:25:50 AM »

Don Flamenco -

You're coming back with exactly the same argument I thought I had just successfully repudiated. If you want to understand why the market does this, listen up

- if you think the stock is going down further, you sell (this should be obvious)
- if you think the stock is coming back up soon, you still sell (because you want to both sell relatively high and buy back relatively low)

There is no circumstance in which it is rational to HOLD stock during panic selling like this, absolutely none. If you want to add to your net position, the only rational way to do it SELL, then buy at the new lower price. This achieves two aims

1) the gains from selling relatively high
2) a lower average price for your new holdings, since you bought all of your holdings at a low price, rather than just some.

It also gives you the luxury of waiting to see what happens from a secure position (not owning any Apple stock). As long as you're holding stock you bought at a high price, you are at the mercy of the market. If you have liquidity, you have the freedom to buy low, or walk away. Understand this and you will make money over the long term in the stock market. Institutional investors are not idiots (certainly not more idiotic in aggregate than random observers who don't own stock).

TEEEPO · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:47:31 AM »

seriously, what is wrong with manabyte?

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:47:47 AM »

Quote from: TEEEPO on February 11, 2011, 12:47:31 AM

seriously, what is wrong with manabyte?

not sure, but it's nothing a tactical nuke won't fix. we have to be sure.

T-Short · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2011, 03:29:15 AM »

Quote from: Wrath2X on February 11, 2011, 02:32:20 AM

Manabyte why isn't your avatar comic book guy anymore? It fit perfectly.

Wasn't enough of an annoying douche, so he had to change to Clarkson instead

Brehvolution · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2011, 09:02:24 AM »

It's a shame that one man gets so much credit for the hard work of Apple's team of engineers. Anyone venture a guess at the last time Jobs wrote some code?

Himu · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2011, 09:05:37 AM »

My old graphic design teacher was a diehard apple fan. I love her but sometimes she would border on fanatic. She once said that Steve Jobs was an artist and that he only makes technology that fits his own ideal, as if Steve Jobs is the only guy who works at Apple.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2011, 10:16:51 AM »

Quote from: Zero Hero on February 11, 2011, 09:02:24 AM

It's a shame that one man gets so much credit for the hard work of Apple's team of engineers. Anyone venture a guess at the last time Jobs wrote some code?

Well, I take the point, but it's pretty easy to quantify the worth of someone who takes a bankrupt and irrelevant company with miniscule and shrinking market share and turns it into what Apple is now. He'd be wasted writing code IMHO. I mean, it would have to be some pretty fuckin' tip-top code, right?

Robo · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2011, 10:33:21 AM »

I need to put away this damn Go board and get into this 'stock market' thing.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2011, 10:37:37 AM »

Apple isn't where it is today because it's still only slinging macs. It wasn't until the ipod/iphone/ipad that started to separate them.

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:57:46 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 11, 2011, 12:25:50 AM

Don Flamenco -

You're coming back with exactly the same argument I thought I had just successfully repudiated. If you want to understand why the market does this, listen up

- if you think the stock is going down further, you sell (this should be obvious)
- if you think the stock is coming back up soon, you still sell (because you want to both sell relatively high and buy back relatively low)

There is no circumstance in which it is rational to HOLD stock during panic selling like this, absolutely none. If you want to add to your net position, the only rational way to do it SELL, then buy at the new lower price. This achieves two aims

1) the gains from selling relatively high
2) a lower average price for your new holdings, since you bought all of your holdings at a low price, rather than just some.

It also gives you the luxury of waiting to see what happens from a secure position (not owning any Apple stock). As long as you're holding stock you bought at a high price, you are at the mercy of the market. If you have liquidity, you have the freedom to buy low, or walk away. Understand this and you will make money over the long term in the stock market. Institutional investors are not idiots (certainly not more idiotic in aggregate than random observers who don't own stock).

I'm a total stock noob and probably need to think about this harder, but I still feel like we're talking about two different, though good ways of playing it. Might seem like I'm arguing here, but I'm just trying to learn more about how the stock market works for when I actually have money to invest.

My way depends on the stock going back up to at least the price the stock was at before the drop...is this the stupid part? Cause if it does get back up there, then the stocks you buy when it's low are where your profit comes from. Since it's Apple, I'm assuming it will definitely get back to where it was. If not during the normal course of things, then definitely at, say, the iphone 5 launch this summer. The biggest apparent risk that I can see is something like: Steve Jobs dies and the Apple hype dies with him somehow, then the stocks drop semi-permanently, so you potentially lose gains on all the stock you own by not selling before that point. Maybe my way is short-sighted because it's placing too much faith in Apple, taking for granted that they're a safe bet?

Your way does seem safer overall, assuming that when you sell after you see it drop a bit, you are still selling above the price you paid for the stock initially. It looks even better if you can buy all that new stock at a lower price than you paid for the stock you had before the drop. Or maybe you can still sell at a loss, but make up for it by buying a whole new set of stock at a lower price, then watching it all go back up?

and after I typed all that out, I think I'm seeing where your way is safer and can potentially make more money.

CajoleJuice · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:27:01 PM »

Didn't some company recently make $450 a target for AAPL or something? Whatever that means

Nice Pi joke, Robo

TEEEPO · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:23:06 AM »

you'd be an incredibly dumb investor if you still have confidence in the stock and don't make the flight to safety in your described situation, unless you have some information that isn't reflected in the price that you know of and nobody else does, but that's pretty much impossible.

it would take a certain type like manabyte to be so myopic and fanboyish when it comes to dealing with stocks.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #32 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:52:02 AM »

Quote from: dcharlie on February 12, 2011, 02:50:48 AM

Cormacaroni - there is also the added factor that people "fall in love" with the stocks they own - i've talked with Davor about this and it seems to be a fairly common thing even with seasoned traders.

P.s. Everytime i see Davor he says "say hi to C" and that we should get together for some sort of food/beverage combo !

Quote
Your way does seem safer overall

unquestionably - let us say that you buy in at Apple X years ago at $20

god yeah, the Brazilian restaurant perhaps??

chronovore · « **Reply #33 on:** February 16, 2011, 06:43:59 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Gundam on February 10, 2011, 06:59:19 PM

Stick to your George Lucas cock sucking and UFO worshiping posts. Your ~~nerd~~ self hatred shtick is really stupid.

Fixed.

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 11, 2011, 10:16:51 AM

Quote from: Zero Hero on February 11, 2011, 09:02:24 AM
It's a shame that one man gets so much credit for the hard work of Apple's team of engineers. Anyone venture a guess at the last time Jobs wrote some code?

Well, I take the point, but it's pretty easy to quantify the worth of someone who takes a bankrupt and irrelevant company with miniscule and shrinking market share and turns it into what Apple is now. He'd be wasted writing code IMHO. I mean, it would have to be some pretty fuckin' tip-top code, right?

Yeah, Jobs' value to Apple is taking place at a much higher level than "coding." Apple-as-a-Brand has always been pretty high, but Jobs has managed to take something that was entirely elitist, make it actually affordable and finally truly usable by everyone, and yet keep the high-end mystique of the brand intact. That's some savvy stuff, right there.

News:

Author Topic: Steve Jobs (and Apple) Death Watch 2011 (Read 2060 times)