Author Topic: GRIN: Square Enix couldn't recognize FFXII screenshots (Read 7558 times)

ManaByte · « **on:** May 28, 2011, 02:32:51 PM »

http://kotaku.com/5806511/bankrupted-studio-says-square+enix-demanded-code-by-fax-didnt-recognize-ffxii-screenshots

Quote

In a feature story published today in Sweden, the founders of GRIN lay their studio's precipitous demise at Square Enix's feet, saying the publisher reneged on payments during the development of a Final Fantasy game and saddled them with ridiculous requirements as the project went sour.
This is according a story (translated via Google) published today by Aftonbladet, an often provocative tabloid but, with 1.2 million readers, a newspaper of record for Sweden. In direct quotes, co-founders Ulf and Bo Andersson allege that Square Enix didn't pay a cent on a roughly $20 million (USD) contract for "Fortress," (concept art pictured) the code name for a Final Fantasy spinoff that diverged from the series' JRPG roots. The Anderssons say they met all project milestones up to the company's August 2009 bankruptcy.

As the relationship deteriorated, the Anderssons say Square Enix sent them a strange demand: Fax us the game's code, including the project's music files. "It is as silly as it sounds," Bo Andersson said (Google translation.) "It is an impossible requirement, you can not send ASCII or binary codes on the fax. It is backward. Really distinguished mentally-challenged. It was almost a criminal activity."

Square Enix then said GRIN had not been sending its milestone work to the right department, that it should have been filed with the publisher's legal division, an unusual requirement. Square Enix also started complaining that they didn't like the game's Nordic style, even though they'd asked for that at the outset, and is presumably why they went to GRIN in the first place.

Feeling like they'd been set up to fail, GRIN sent Square Enix an image taken from Final Fantasy XII saying it was a production shot from "Fortress." The Anderssons say Square Enix replied "It does not look like Final Fantasy."

"Then we realized that whatever we do ... they have decided," Bo Andersson said. (Google translation).

The remainder of the story chart's GRIN's rise and fall and the Anderssons' resulting debts and disappointment, especially in light of successful Swedish developers such as DICE (Battlefield) and Markus Persson, the creator of the indie hit Minecraft. Again, it's a Google translation, but the piece is reasonably straightforward and readable.

"We wanted to come in and revolutionize Final Fantasy, which is exactly what they need," said Andersson. "The latest version sucks of course."

magus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2011, 02:37:08 PM »

shitaku ---------------> neofags

Himu · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2011, 02:37:15 PM »

jesus christ, s-e

iconoclast · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2011, 03:09:51 PM »

Like I said in the other thread, it sounds like they were just looking for an excuse to can the game because GRIN shipped three high profile bombs in a row.

SE dodged a bullet.

Bebpo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2011, 03:23:28 PM »

Bionic Commando was a good game though; both 2d and 3d. So I feel a little bad for them.

Will be interesting to see what Obsidian has to say about working with SE on DS3 after it comes out in a month.

demi · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2011, 04:28:15 PM »

Quote from: Bebpo on May 28, 2011, 03:23:28 PM

Bionic Commando was a good game though; both 2d and 3d. So I feel a little bad for them.

Will be interesting to see what Obsidian has to say about working with SE on DS3 after it comes out in a month.

"they are awesome. we love them. so cool. buy final fantasy."

Positive Touch · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2011, 06:16:16 PM »

good job using distinguished mentally-challenged while being interviewed for a news story

very professional

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2011, 06:21:03 PM »

Quote from: Positive Touch on May 28, 2011, 06:16:16 PM

good job using distinguished mentally-challenged while being interviewed for a news story

very professional

It's a Google translation.

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2011, 06:25:37 PM »

Quote from: Great Rumbler on May 28, 2011, 06:21:03 PM

Quote from: Positive Touch on May 28, 2011, 06:16:16 PM
good job using distinguished mentally-challenged while being interviewed for a news story

very professional

It's a Google translation.

annihilated

Bebpo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2011, 06:32:57 PM »

google isn't very P.C.

Positive Touch · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2011, 07:42:51 PM »

Quote from: Bebpo on May 28, 2011, 06:32:57 PM

google isn't very P.C.

someone should start a boycott

SantaC · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2011, 07:50:21 PM »

Quote from: iconoclast on May 28, 2011, 03:09:51 PM

Like I said in the other thread, it sounds like they were just looking for an excuse to can the game because GRIN shipped three high profile bombs in a row.

SE dodged a bullet.

lol you're stupid, the reason for some bad games was because they were bleeding money and had to rush some games from the other studios before they closed. Here is more from the original article:

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What happened? It went two months without Square Enix paid a penny. There was no problem, arguing Bo Anderson, the publishers are sometimes slow with it, but three months, four, five? No money from the Japanese. GRIN bled: studio cost around 12 million a month. The brothers held out, they were supposed to do a new edition of one of the world's most classic franchises. Square did not pay. It was half a year. Grin did everything to afford to continue the development of the game. They closed all offices except the one in Stockholm.

- They starved us, sighed Bo.

garbage methods by SE

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article13094476.ab

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #12 on:** May 28, 2011, 07:56:16 PM »

Quote from: Positive Touch on May 28, 2011, 07:42:51 PM

Quote from: Bebpo on May 28, 2011, 06:32:57 PM
google isn't very P.C.

someone should start a boycott

Some French guy did. According to a translation of his statement issued to the press: "Those niggardly jews at Google are producing faggy translations that look worse than the work of some distinguished mentally-challenged wetback."

demi · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2011, 08:18:01 PM »

Quote

Feeling like they'd been set up to fail, GRIN sent Square Enix an image taken from Final Fantasy XII saying it was a production shot from "Fortress." The Anderssons say Square Enix replied "It does not look like Final Fantasy."

I don't see the problem here. Even Square Enix knows FF12 is a shit game.

iconoclast · « **Reply #14 on:** May 28, 2011, 09:18:36 PM »

Quote from: SantaC on May 28, 2011, 07:50:21 PM

Quote from: iconoclast on May 28, 2011, 03:09:51 PM
Like I said in the other thread, it sounds like they were just looking for an excuse to can the game because GRIN shipped three high profile bombs in a row.

SE dodged a bullet.

lol you're stupid, the reason for some bad games was because they were bleeding money and had to rush some games from the other studios before they closed. Here is more from the original article:

Quote
What happened? It went two months without Square Enix paid a penny. There was no problem, arguing Bo Anderson, the publishers are sometimes slow with it, but three months, four, five? No money from the Japanese. GRIN bled: studio cost around 12 million a month. The brothers held out, they were supposed to do a new edition of one of the world's most classic franchises. Square did not pay. It was half a year. Grin did everything to afford to continue the development of the game. They closed all offices except the one in Stockholm.

- They starved us, sighed Bo.

garbage methods by SE

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article13094476.ab

Yeah, if you make a few high budget games that no one buys, you'll probably start bleeding money and eventually close down. And nothing of value was lost.*

*besides the BCR team

pilonv1 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2011, 10:08:41 PM »

Quote

So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Fantastic

chronovore · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2011, 10:17:15 PM »

Complaining that GRIN hadn't made a good game is irrelevant; neither has Square-Enix.

Terminator was bad, and Wanted: Weapons of Fate was mediocre, but GRIN's this-gen Bionic Commando was considered quite good by some players here on the 'Bore, wasn't it? And the XBLA Re-Armed game was inarguably good, and as Backbone has shown with Bomberman, it is possible to screw-update an apparently bulletproof gameplay.

GRIN was far from perfect, but this sounds as though S-E was just backing rapidly away from GRIN and its recently acquired bad reputation.

Quote from: pilonv1 on May 28, 2011, 10:08:41 PM

Quote
So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Fantastic

Fantastically final, you mean.

cool breeze · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2011, 10:59:34 PM »

Swinging around in the 3D Bionic Commando felt really good. It had its problems, but of all the games I play, it stands out because the swinging was so much fun.

Grin deserves more credit for BC: Rearmed, btw. The presentation is pretty outstanding. Incredible soundtrack and '2.5d' visuals that looked great (it's really easy to mess this up; see NSMB or that 360 Rocket Knight game)

[youtube=560,345]uPtHTroVWPM[/youtube]

bionic commando 2009 had great music too
[youtube=560,345]WEAU1KusuyM[/youtube]

there is one part fairly late in the game where this song kicks in and you get pumped up

The Sceneman · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2011, 11:13:58 PM »

man, the OP makes me SICK

I'm boycotting all SE games from now on.

BC 2009 was GOTY 2009, such a criminally underrated masterpiece. I dare you to name a better game that came out in 2009

Himu · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2011, 12:14:00 AM »

RESIDENT EVIL 5

GOTY 2009

pilonv1 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2011, 01:52:46 AM »

list wars $:-\$

chronovore · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2011, 06:53:14 AM »

Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 28, 2011, 11:09:47 PM

I'm not trying to say that they don't deserve any credit for Rearmed or that remaking games as well as they did there is easy, I'm just saying it's not a good indicator that they can make an entire game of such quality on their own.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. And no-one is saying S-E isn't pulling the El Bastardo card here.

maxy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2011, 07:20:34 AM »

S-E sucks
FF sucks

S-E will meet he same fate as Grin--what goes around comes around
Japan will get even more irrelevant next gen(if that is even possible)...outside of Japan fighting games nothing else even remotely interests me

magus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2011, 07:51:11 AM »

can't wait for when they announce gears of war 4 and halo 4

america

maxy · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2011, 09:08:57 AM »

I don't think they will roll over next year or anytime soon,but they will go down one day...oh yes

It's just that my interest about anything coming from Japan is now at the lowest possible levels,hardware included.

maxy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2011, 09:16:29 AM »

magus · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2011, 09:54:38 AM »

so i'm the only one who really doesn't believe this news?

this is the equivalent of a gossip magazine saying that they read in a translated interview that celebrity 2 beated celebrity 1 after they divorced.....

i mean if square-enix played dirty why they didn't just call bebpo and sue them? or break their contract before going bankrupt? or have this whole story get out a lot sooner?

heck i mean doesn't square-enix lose money too in such a case? why they would lose money willingly when they can just release any shit with "final fantasy" slapped on it and have all the himuro of the case buy it in drove

Diunx · « **Reply #27 on:** May 29, 2011, 01:24:55 PM »

SantaC · « **Reply #28 on:** May 29, 2011, 04:21:56 PM »

Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 28, 2011, 10:25:04 PM

Well, there's no doubt SE was giving them the ol' Japanese "fuck off".

I just don't see why that's surprising. In the span of three months Grin put out three commercial and critical bombs. I liked BC09 well enough, but the game's flaws ran deep.

BC: Rearmed was fantastic, and you're right, a good remake is not a sure thing, but at the same time, most of the work was done for them. Rearmed 2 gives a better indication of where they go without a framework to build on.

I think Grin was capable of greatness (all of their games have a strong feeling of potential) but whoever was calling the shots at that studio was infinitely more responsible for their demise than Square waking up feeling like they were coyote ugly.

dude the original article in swedish says that they had to RUSH those games because they bled money, what the fuck is so hard to understand? GRIN did make GRAW which was critically acclaimed, it is not like made shit games all the time.

Also they had 4 different studios in different countries, however their main studio was in stockholm (hint the studio that didnt put out the crap games)

Too much writing fact as a conclusion before reading the entire article. Imagine if S-E had the budget GRIN operated around, they would make games like Superman64 all-time time.

demi · « **Reply #29 on:** May 29, 2011, 08:43:56 PM »

GRIN made a PC port of GRAW... by UbiSoft

chronovore · « **Reply #30 on:** May 29, 2011, 09:17:26 PM »

It's also arguable that GRIN saying they had to rush because they were bleeding money is exemplary of another problem common to outsourced devs: agreeing to untenable contracts just to get something in-house and moving. I know of one j-dev which agreed to do a port of their Japanese-only PS2 game to PS2/Wii and internationalized to seven languages -- in three months. I believe it was the last time that publisher worked with that dev as well...

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #31 on:** May 30, 2011, 02:25:30 PM »

They took on too much work. Their games didn't sell very well. One of their backers backed out. The company crumbled.

It happens.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #32 on:** May 30, 2011, 03:49:32 PM »

I am glad to see Evilbore has a much better view of how the industry actually works than most sites or forums

originalz · « **Reply #33 on:** May 30, 2011, 09:23:26 PM »

The game probably would have sucked and continued to tarnish the FF name. Ah, wait, all of the other games were mediocre, but this would have been different, right?

Himu · « **Reply #34 on:** May 30, 2011, 09:29:37 PM »

I definitely don't think Grin "got" FF looking at the demo trailer.

I mean, the Tonberry for instance doesn't really understand the entire premise of the Tonberry. The Tonberry is supposed to look non-threatening, but holds quite a punch with that dagger knife it's hiding in its cloak. Instead, they make it look like some creepy thing from Nightmare Before Christmas and some generic fantasy crap.

I'm all for adaptations and stuff, but if you're not going to even bother to understand the very premise of something, why bother.

I still think Bioware is capable of pulling off the western Final Fantasy that Square Enix wants.

chronovore · « **Reply #35 on:** May 30, 2011, 09:43:15 PM »

Quote from: Howard Alan Treesong on May 30, 2011, 03:49:32 PM

I am glad to see Evilbore has a much better view of how the industry actually works than most sites or forums

Among our active posters, I'm quite sure we have a higher ratio of actual-game-devs-to-loudmouth-goombahs. However, this discounts the diagrammatic overlap where a game dev is also a loudmouth goombah.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #36 on:** May 30, 2011, 10:00:00 PM »

Quote from: Borys on May 30, 2011, 05:14:21 PM

Oscar DESTROYED Scenster with that list

did he? I would say he didn't, as not one game he mentioned was better than Bionic Commando 2009?

But of course, creative work is all very subjective.

SantaC · « **Reply #37 on:** May 31, 2011, 02:25:19 PM »

Quote from: originalz on May 30, 2011, 09:23:26 PM

The game probably would have sucked and continued to tarnish the FF name. Ah, wait, all of the other games were mediocre, but this would have been different, right?

exactly, SE cant even put out a decent FF game these days even with the budget 100x what GRIN had. Just look at FF13 and FF14, man SE should just fold. Sorry segata, the once great japanese dev isnt even good anymore.

swedish devs do more with less money. Avalanche and Starbeeze are good examples of that. DICE is fucking awesome, but atleast they got huge backing from EA.

magus · « **Reply #38 on:** May 31, 2011, 02:39:23 PM »

i wish square-enix fans were like nintendo ones $:-\$

<Square-enix fan> this game is too linear i don't like it

<Nintendo fan> so basicaly all i do is waiting around while the train travels? OMG ZELDA IS SO AWESOME

tiesto · « **Reply #39 on:** May 31, 2011, 02:45:39 PM »

GRIN = the Swedish House Mafia of game developers

TripleA · « **Reply #40 on:** May 31, 2011, 03:02:24 PM »

1. Square Enix
2. Sony Computer Entertainment
3. Square Enix

A short but accurate list of the biggest failures of the current gaming generation.

magus · « **Reply #41 on:** May 31, 2011, 03:14:42 PM »

but none of those did wii music

Himu · « **Reply #42 on:** May 31, 2011, 03:16:08 PM »

Quote from: TripleA on May 31, 2011, 03:02:24 PM

1. Square Enix
2. Sony Computer Entertainment
3. Square Enix

A short but accurate list of the biggest failures of the current gaming generation.

Er

Namco and Konami are way worse than SE

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #43 on:** May 31, 2011, 10:42:15 PM »

Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 31, 2011, 10:33:37 PM

you have reminded me of one thing, though. outside avalanche, swedish developers in general are almost as fucking terrible as canadian devs.

Mojang

pilonv1 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 31, 2011, 11:25:23 PM »

Quote from: Great Rumbler on May 31, 2011, 10:42:15 PM

you have reminded me of one thing, though. outside avalanche, swedish developers in general are almost as fucking terrible as canadian devs.

I was about to fire up but I realised BugBear are Finnish.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #45 on:** May 31, 2011, 11:37:53 PM »

Avalanche made Just Cause 2 right? That game was fuckin sweet

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #46 on:** June 01, 2011, 12:30:29 AM »

shin'en

TripleA · « **Reply #47 on:** June 01, 2011, 12:43:39 AM »

Quote from: magus on May 31, 2011, 03:14:42 PM

but none of those did wii music

Other than a poorly choreographed stage presentation, there wasn't much wrong with Wii music.

I think the small population of Xbots who rag on Wii music fail to realize that Wii music was never intended to emulate real instrumentation.

TripleA · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2011, 01:01:28 AM »

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 31, 2011, 03:16:08 PM

Quote from: TripleA on May 31, 2011, 03:02:24 PM
1. Square Enix
2. Sony Computer Entertainment
3. Square Enix

A short but accurate list of the biggest failures of the current gaming generation.

Er

Namco and Konami are way worse than SE

I'm not sure you fully understand what has happened to the Final Fantasy franchise.

Himu · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2011, 01:18:36 AM »

Er...that it is slowly slipping into irrelevance? No way buddy, I predicted that over a year ago.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #50 on:** June 01, 2011, 01:22:32 AM »

this Gen? Final Fantasy has been going steeply downhill after FF9

naff · « **Reply #51 on:** June 01, 2011, 02:56:40 AM »

wrong

magus · « **Reply #52 on:** June 01, 2011, 05:45:08 AM »

Quote from: TripleA on June 01, 2011, 12:43:39 AM

Quote from: magus on May 31, 2011, 03:14:42 PM
but none of those did wii music

Other than a poorly choreographed stage presentation, there wasn't much wrong with Wii music.

I think the small population of Xbots who rag on Wii music fail to realize that Wii music was never intended to emulate real instrumentation.

nah wii music is a terrible game,heck i'm not even sure the word "game" can be used considering there is no objective or barely any control at all

Quote

I'm not sure you fully understand what has happened to the Final Fantasy franchise.

we got a game that made every final fantasy fanboy cry and a lame mmorpg
so basicaly final fantasy 8 and final fantasy 11 happened again
i don't see the big deal

Quote

i wish square-enix fans were like nintendo ones Undecided

<Square-enix fan> this game is too linear i don't like it Sad
<Nintendo fan> so basicaly all i do is waiting around while the train travels? OMG ZELDA IS SO AWESOME

i was totaly serious here,nintendo can do whatever the piss they want and people still talk about them like it's a religion,square-enix does FF13/FF14 and *BAM* everyone talks about them like they are sega!

SantaC · « **Reply #53 on:** June 01, 2011, 06:19:34 AM »

Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 31, 2011, 10:33:37 PM

you have reminded me of one thing, though. outside avalanche, swedish developers in general are almost as fucking terrible as canadian devs.

no, DICE is pretty damn awesome and starbreeze is definitely not terrible.

SK on the other hand

naff · « **Reply #54 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:37:21 AM »

DICE and Bioware are still great devs. Both devs have gone from strength to strength since EA bought them.

SantaC · « **Reply #55 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:13:56 AM »

Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on June 01, 2011, 06:55:29 AM

Starbreeze made one good game and has been coasting off its goodwill ever since. Just like Silicon Knights, come to think of it.

DICE used to be pretty alright but have gotten worse and worse since EA bought them. Just like Bioware, come to think of it.

one good game? That's a terrible generalization. There are lot of people who liked enclave and the darkness.

brob · « **Reply #56 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:15:56 AM »

paradox alone can carry Sweden in this shit tossing contest. wtfs the matter with yall

Can't we all just agree that GRIN made a bunch of dumb mistakes (rapid, unsustainable expansion; dumb business deals) and Square is ass. lose, lose - but maybe we're lucky and square can reform themselves, or tank and give way to something interesting rising out of it's ashes.

cool breeze · « **Reply #57 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:24:57 AM »

Wii Music is a baby rattle simulator

brob · « **Reply #58 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:28:41 AM »

so in this analogy of yours square caters to creepy old weeaboos who don't understand math? Or is it creepy old weeaboos who want to vicariously live their anime dreams from their mothers basement?

brob · « **Reply #59 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:43:12 AM »

endpoint: everyone sucks.

News:

Author Topic: GRIN: Square Enix couldn't recognize FFXII screenshots (Read 7558 times)